Kalifornia Gun Sales 101 – The 2nd Amendment Lives in California

by Administrator on February 19, 2012

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All guns need to be on the official California roster to be sold to most people in Cali. These are specific by model. For instance, the Glock 35 (3rd Gen) in front is on the CA roster. However, the Glock 35 4th Gen in back is not on the CA Roster, and cannot generally be purchased.

California is one of the states that still restrict the import/purchase of high capacity magazines. Magazines are generally restricted to 10 rounds. The one on the left (15-rounds) vs the compliant 10 rounder on the right.

The Ruger LCP is a highly sought pistol nationwide, but is not on the roster, so it can only be bought in California by an in-state private party transfer, or the single shot exemption which is a fairly new and relatively untested methodology for bringing non-roster guns into California.

While you may be surprised to see an AR in California, more importantly, it’s a California Compliant AR. These have exploded in the state, and are filling tables throughout California gun shows.

These AR receivers look the same, but the one on top is a California legal one, with the “bullet button,” while the one below is a Registered Assault Weapon that is no longer able to be purchased by the general public in the state.

The bullet button makes many otherwise illegal assault weapons California compliant. The need to use a tool to eject the magazine is the key element that makes this legal.

Selling firearms in the Golden State does not need to be a problem. There are resources to help you through the gun laws to do it legally. By not selling to Californians, you are just fullfilling the will of the anti-gunners.

By Brian Jensen

I don’t know how many times I have seen on an internet gun classified or auction, “No Sales to California!” (It’s usually on the item I really want too…) Sometimes people like to be cute, and call it “Kalifornia” instead. Most sellers who do this make reference that due to laws they don’t agree with, they refuse to sell to buyers in the Golden State, and seat of liberal silliness. Sometimes they just feel like there is too much nonsense to deal with and it isn’t worth their time, and sometimes they just won’t do it on principle.

While I respect their convictions, I see their reaction as flawed. For one, there is money to be made on guns in California, for someone who is willing to learn a few simple things. And as for politics, the main point of their position is the belief that as a result of their refusal to ship us Kalifornians, the would-be gun owners here will rise up, and kick out our village of idiots in Sacramento.

Unfortunately, this state is so deeply seated in liberal ideology, and conservatives are so heavily outnumbered, this will never be a realistic outcome. There just aren’t enough of us.

The end result then becomes that gun sellers in the “free states” for lack of a better word, abandon all the gun owners and potential owners in our state who are already victimized enough by their own government. If you want to do something to truly help the 2nd Amendment in California, send in more guns! One more gun means potentially one more gun owner and one more voter, and that’s a good thing, right?

Let’s say you’re one of those sellers who is willing to sell to buyers in California. What do you need to know?

What Can People Own…The Certified Gun List…

First off, not just any gun can be shipped to California. Hi-capacity long guns, so called and misnamed “assault weapons” are a whole article in themselves. But we’ll try to touch on that later… As for handguns, any pistol or revolver must be certified by the state as “safe”. These weapons are listed on a roster of certified handguns. Per the California DOJ:


Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

These guns are submitted by the manufacturer to the state’s designated labs for testing where they are dropped, banged, and beat up to see if they are likely to go “bang” when dropped. This is also to determine to the politicians’ particular criteria as “safe”. The manufacturer then pays the state on a yearly basis to keep that particular model on the list. In addition, any new gun introduced these days must have a chamber-loaded indicator and magazine disconnect safety. Older guns are exempt as long as they stay on the roster.

If you’re looking for the roster, it’s listed on the CA DOJ website.

Fortunately, only handguns coming into California need to be on this roster so rifles (as long as they are not assault weapons) are easily shipped in our fair state. Handguns not on the roster can be shipped here as well, as long as it is going to a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO), who is exempt.

There is also a new way around the roster evolving, called the “Single Shot Exemption” where the gun is made to fire as a single shot pistol, and can therefore be imported. The owner, once in possession of the firearm, can then convert it back to it’s normal configuration (with the exception of such things as hi capacity magazines…etc.). This is exemption is still a new idea for California, but the CalGuns group is one of the more informative websites that helps spell this, as well as many other legal matters out.

One other note, California bans the sale of magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds to the general public. Even if you are shipping the firearm to a LEO, you’d better check with your receiving FFL to make sure they can accept the magazines, as some can’t.

The California CFLC Program

Next, any FFL shipping a weapon to a California must be on a list within the CA DOJ database, called the California Firearms License Check (CFLC) System. The purpose of this is to verify that whoever the shipper is sending the firearm to inside California, is a legitimate FFL that is legally able to receive the firearm. (Basically, it protects the shipper by preventing shipping to someone posing as an FFL, or who isn’t able to receive the firearm in question.)

This is actually a relatively easy and free process. (How many times do you hear “free” along with government program…) Just contact the state’s DOJ, and they will walk you through how to go through the system.

When you have a firearm to ship, whether it be a long gun or handgun, just contact the CFLC automated system with the weapon and FFL info. Then, the automated system will generate a letter of authorization with a specific authorization number to ship the weapon. Save this letter, as it is your protection that verifies the receiver is legit. Put a copy of the letter with the gun when you ship it as well.

Only to an FFL

It is of course a US Federal law that guns crossing state lines have to be shipped to an FFL dealer. That dealer will do the background check and state paperwork to legally transfer the gun. California, believe it or not, has a goodly number of FFL’s to service the public. They are scattered across the state, from venues such as a guy’s garage to large stores, so don’t let their location fool you. Just use the CFLC and BATFE systems to verify them if you have any doubts.

Assault Weapons in Cali…

OK, so you might figure that assault weapons are pretty much dead here. On the contrary! AR-15 style firearms, and now even AK-style rifles are enjoying a new heyday in California. This is because of the ingenuity of a few, who saw the raging demand here for such rifles, and found a way to make them work under the law. You see, any of these weapons are legal, as long two items are met. First, the gun cannot be listed by name as banned (see below for more information). Second, the weapon must have a “fixed” 10-round magazine. This has been determined the magazine can only be removed by means of a “tool”.

A replacement for the magazine release called a “bullet button,” makes this possible. The solid metal piece that inserts into the hole of the magazine release makes it so you must insert something long and narrow, like a bullet or punch, into the hole and thus activate the magazine release. These, and other similar items to make the magazine “permanent” have revolutionized weapons sales in CA. Guns stores are dedicating large portions of their inventory to the heinous “black rifle”, and they are raking in money hand over fist.

The source of the situation is from California’s assault weapon bans. Assault weapons were initially banned by specific name, then by similar series such as AK/AR type rifles, but finally, the legislature banned the guns by feature. Any semiautomatic centerfire weapon with a detachable magazine, which also has a: pistol grip, thumbhole stock, folding stock, grenade/flare launcher, flash suppressor, or a forward pistol grip was banned. That’s why any standard AR / AK is illegal, but most semi-auto rifles like the Ruger Mini-14 is perfectly legal. Some guns, such as any .50 BMG weapon, regardless of configuration, are still Assault weapons, whether single shot, bolt action, or semi-auto.

As an example, the California Penal Code regarding assault weapons that are rifles:

California Penal Code Section 30515.
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

One maker of excellent quality AR components, JD Machine Tech, is located here in San Diego. Their uppers and lowers are machined here in a nondescript warehouse near downtown and they are considered to be some of the industry’s best, being used by many big names.

So, if you are indeed sending an assault weapon to our fine state, it may very well be on the up and up. Some guns are even touted by the manufacturer as being “CA Compliant”. This usually means it has an apparatus such as the aforementioned “bullet button” or has had one of its “undesirable” attributes removed. These are legal in California for anyone who can otherwise own a gun. If, however, the gun is a standard AR, AK, or other s rifle, it can only be shipped to a CA Assault Weapons Dealer, and can only go to a LEO, or other person specified by statute.

If all Else Fails, Call the California DOJ

I have on numerous occasions had to call the California DOJ for firearms related questions. I have never been disappointed. Their staff has been courteous, helpful, and professional, I’ll even go so far as to say downright friendly. I just try to remember that they are merely the people tasked with deciphering and enforcing the myriad of Firearms laws passed by the people in Sacramento.

If you are unsure about a potential sale, or have questions about the CFLC program, just call them. They can steer you in the right direction. This is especially important in the continually evolving world of firearms. Their goal is to keep things legal, not to trap other sellers into some legal loophole.

Don’t Abandon California

OK, so we don’t have to agree that what our legislature does is exactly helpful. However, our state is not one flush with conservative thinking gun enthusiasts, so changing the laws is slow, painful, and will likely be at the point of the spear (rhetorically speaking) from court decisions in light of Heller and McDonald.

I won’t pretend to understand all the California firearms laws as they are many. However, by merely doing your due diligence with the CA DOJ, they can steer you in the right direction, and make shipping a firearm here easier, and without legal peril. There are other resources such as the CalGuns network, or FFL’s here who have learned the right way to do things. Open up to California’s firearms market, we have buyers waiting.

Sources:
CA Penal Code (Assault Weapons) 30500-30530
CA DOJ Firearms Website: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms
CA DOJ Assault Weapon Guide (Online Form): http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/awguide
CA CFLC: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview
Cal Guns Foundation Website: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

{ 192 comments… read them below or add one }

W. Brimm February 20, 2012 at 3:44 am

Great article. It just irks me when dealers just empathically without just cause “will not ship to California”. Well it’s their loss (money). I know this may seem incredulous but I am a liberal and a gun “nut”. Mostly C&R, military battle rifles, little SS .22′s, older hand guns and etc. I love guns. Not only am I a member of the NRA but also the ACLU. So I liked your article and yes, we do put up with some nonsense here in CA but some things actually make sense such as the 10 day (cooling off period). To me it’s a pain but if it really did save one life then it’s worth it, and I can live with that.

Thank you for an informative article, I just hope some paid attention.

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Joe Sylvester February 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm

we do put up with some nonsense here in CA but some things actually make sense such as the 10 day (cooling off period). To me it’s a pain but if it really did save one life then it’s worth it, and I can live with that”

Tell that to the woman whose crazy ex is stalking her. Or the business owner who has just been robbed and has good reason to believe the thugs will be back.

Waiting periods have killed. Those who are intent on mayhem aren’t going to observe them anyway, they’ll buy their weapon out of someone’s trunk. With the instant background check, why should a law abiding person wait to exercise a Constitutional right… Well they are making us wait to vote in the primary here in Texas. Lawsuits delayed the primary to the point where, once again, Texans will have no voice in who the Republican nominee is. The legislature moved the primary up to Super Tuesday to remedy what happened in 2008. But the federal courts put the fix to that fix.

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Frank MX February 20, 2012 at 5:23 pm

Brilliant! So while I am cooling off all my other guns are unavaiolable to me as well…right?

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Brad February 20, 2012 at 6:33 pm

Rather than use one of my many guns I’d buy one just to shoot someone with? Cool down? I wouldn’t use a gun anyway I’d use a ball bat get to have more fun that way!

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Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:23 pm

The calguns foundation is currently challenging the 10 day cooling off period on all purchases after the state already knows you own at least 1 gun. Then hopefully the whole thing goes away in the end.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/news-blog/press/197-calguns-foundation-sues-california-over-firearms-waiting-period-.html

the sooner we win in California, the sooner the rest of the nations gun rights are more secure.

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:09 am

I wish you luck…but you just can’t win in california…unless you illegally crossed the border

Len February 20, 2012 at 6:56 pm

ACLU? Are commie?

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andy February 21, 2012 at 11:17 am

I agree with you mr brimm. It bothers me also to think that fellow gun lovers and dealers are taking out their frustrations with the laws and regulations behind gun sales in California. Can’t say i blame them though. As much as i respect and obey the law, growing up in compton Ca, i always get nervous when i see a cop. Even when he’s “just doing his job”. Now i can only imagine my level of fear and anxiety if i were in the weapons business :/ no one wants to go to jail. It always seems like uncle same leaves just enough room for them to charge you if they really want to, or slap you on the wrist and pretend they’re giving you a second chance.

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Mike S February 24, 2012 at 6:16 pm

I’m a few days late seeing this post. I’d like to ask a question regarding the “cooling off period”. Why do I need to cool off if I already own one or more guns of the type I’m buying?

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S. March 5, 2012 at 3:56 pm

Nice to hear of another gun toting LIBERAL! I am armed and Democrat and don’t agree with the rules here in CA either. Fight the good fight brother.

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Matt Luckey February 20, 2012 at 4:13 am

I lived in San Diego all my life and saw the 89 gun ban wipe out anything that looked like a cool gun. I’ve seen good people in downtown lose their businesses of thirty years because of a few lame politians looking for votes. I moved to Texas a few months ago and feel like I went back in time. No bullet buttons, 10 round mags, or fixed mags. I sincerely hope to see a day when my guns are legal again in Kalifornia. All Americans should have the same rights in every state!

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Chris February 20, 2012 at 11:18 am

“All Americans should have the same rights in every state!”
I agree with this statement but this is a two edge sword. We may have the second amendment but it seems to be bastardised by liberal politicians to be a states right. When ever you hear a politician claim they are conservative but did something progressive (liberal) while they wrer in office they always say they believe it is a states right. This is the Achilles heel interpretation by liberals when it comes to the second amendment.

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Joe Sylvester February 20, 2012 at 1:58 pm

The federal courts have ruled that the second amendment protects an individual right, and at least at the appeals court level, that it applies to the states as well as the federal government.

Gun Control is just plain unconstitutional. Now we have a bunch of folks, at least 100,000, about to be kicked to the curb, who are sworn to support and defend that constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They are also well trained in the use of weapons. Could get interesting.

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Len February 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm

What if ruled otherwise? Would you believe them? Would you suddenly forget all the US History? Movies? Writings?

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Omer February 20, 2012 at 4:17 am

Brian everything you stated is why most don’t like to sell to California if something goes wrong it could jeopardize a FFL holders license in another state.The part you wrote about the single shot could also be in violation given when you convert it back it could be considered manufactured within California or fall under the new law chamber-loaded indicator and magazine disconnect safety.You have to remember the guidelines and how your government views guns.They don’t want you to have guns or the ones you have must be “child proof” is my better word for the safety testing.I feel that you might be a shady character and maybe the best thing is for you not to have guns or you could move to one them free states and own as many as you want.

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ken February 21, 2012 at 1:53 am

manufacture of a firearm refers specifically to the manufacture of the receiver, so no.

To the article, i say THANK YOU! It is so frustrating not being able to get the firearms I want. The best way to change the laws is to end the deamonizing, best acheived by familiarization. That means we need more people to own guns in the state. Besides, that may help to reduce crime!

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Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:25 pm

thats not how it works, modifying your gun is not illegal in California. (and modifying, is NOT manufacturing)You shipped him a single shot, he turned it into a semi-auto, there is nothing in statute that makes that illegal.

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Redneckwithskills February 22, 2012 at 7:04 pm

You forgot the H in front of your name.

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DCW February 20, 2012 at 5:47 am

An OK summary, but let me offer a couple of comments:

It’s a single-action exemption for non-listed revolvers, not a single-shot exemption. The argument is that if you take the double-action sear out of a revolver, have both shipped to CA, DROS the revolver as a SA gun and then later put the sear back in, you are theoretically compliant.I would not use of his workaround, which feels sketchy and fragile to me, but others are fine with it. If I wanted a particular unlisted DA revolver I would just try to find one in-state and do a private party transfer.

CA FFLs are permitted to receive directly from out-of-state individuals who do not have an FFL. Private party shippers do NOT have to go through the CFLC process. Only FFLs (both in-state and out-of-state) must comply with the CFLC process when shipping a gun. This is convenient when it comes to C&R handguns, as it is no harder to ship a C&R into California than it is to get it into any gun-friendly state. The wrinkle here is that C&R license holders, who can receive qualifying handguns directly in most other states, cannot do so in CA. Any handgun must be received and transferred by an 01 licensee in CA. (C&R licensees who reside in CA can buy a C&R handgun out of state, bring it in and self-register on the proper DOJ form.) C&R holders can receive qualifying long guns directly at their in-state address, at least for most of the next two years. Looks like after January 2014 state FFLs will be involved in the long-gun transfers as well.

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Danny Flucke February 23, 2012 at 4:06 pm

Incorrect. SSE refers to semi-auto sidearms being converted to “Single Shot” capability – This allows the sidearm to be legally registered in spite of not being on the CA DOJ approved roster.

I recently purchased a 7″ Longslide AMT 1911 clone chambered in .30 Carbine from a seller on GunBroker.com – That sidearm is about as far “off roster” as you can get. After installing a barrel extension and a single shot magazine – My FFL was able to then allow me to legally register it.

SSE stands for “Single Shot Exemption” – And can be used to register a wide variety of firearms including AR pistols – AK pistols – And a huge number of semi-auto sidearms.

I’m one of those few conservatives – And have accelerated my plans to move both my family and businesses – Along with the taxes/revenue generated to another state.

Kaliforniastan had it’s chance – But with the union owned political hacks raising business taxes and piling on fees to support entitlements for illegals – Enough is enough…

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Zeno Streletz February 20, 2012 at 5:59 am

Let’s face it, California is President Obama’s model for the rest
of the United States. That’s the end of the road as he see’s it.

Zeke

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tom February 20, 2012 at 12:45 pm

Obama is small change and will be gone in the near future. The anti-gun forces endure. It’s not about California. We fight on. It’s about the Constitution and the rest of the nation supporting it. The worst part of this country right now is apathy for our own citizens. California is one of the hot spots for us to change the very sad trend of taking our rights.

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David February 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm

I hope you’re right Tom, because the gloves will come off and its going to be a 4-year bareknuckle brawl if Obama gets voted in office again.

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Rich February 20, 2012 at 5:10 pm

David, Get real. There’s absolutely no way that any GOP candidate can beat this guy and here’s why.
1) The current criminal in office has all of the electorates in his hip pocket
2) The current criminal has all of Americas Union votes
3) The current criminal has the votes of every major city in America that borders a major ocean ( Liberals)
4) The current criminal has the votes of the young people educated in our colleges ( Liberal Colleges )
5) The current criminal has ( boy this one’s tough ) all of the black and Latino votes and up and coming illegals that you might say can’t vote …….. yea right.
6) The current criminal has the press, Media, and the Hollywankers who stupid people listen to, like Opra, Susan Saranwrap, Sean the dickhead Penn, Hanoi Jane, Rosie Ofatdonnell, Ellen Degenerate, The word game guy on the plane and most every Gay and Lesbian in America.
7) What do the conservatives have? Look at your choices, Not a pretty picture. David, get ready for the bareknuckle brawl cause it’s a comin’ Kiss your rights and your future both financially and healthcare wise goodbuy plus your gun rights. Wait til the 1% bank tax comes in. Why did this happen ???? Because we allowed it to happen !!!!!!!!!!

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Waltc February 20, 2012 at 8:54 pm

2/20/2012
Rich don’t go off half cocked, I’m Latino and was born and bred in Calif. U.S.A. as were my parents and grand parents. I belong to the NRA and have for quite a few years and I sincerely believe in the second admendment. I to believe that illegals should not be allowed here, but think why are they here? For jobs! So dry up employment and they would not come here. So blame the damned politicians the don’t enact laws to fine the employers that hire them and I mean really BIG FINES. I am sure not voting for any politician that is against the 2nd admendment. There are many latinos that feel this way. I have been hearing this B.S. from the politicians about illegal immigration since I was a kid and that was quite a while ago. So don’t put all Latinos in the same barrel. I am a gun collector and have to put up with the gun laws of this state that are so stupid that it’s laughable, for instances I can buy a colt python that is stainless steel and has a 6 inch barrel but I can’t buy any other colt python if the barrel is of a different size or is blued how about that for stupidenty! So amigo I feel as you do.

Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:27 pm

I think you forget that the NRA and other pro gun groups have amassed 260 million dollars to defeat Obama. I keep giving as much as I can to them.

dave February 26, 2012 at 5:55 pm

If you believe this pap try keeping it to yourself. You are wrong on most points, Obumbler has lost 10 to 30% of the voting blocks that had brain burps when they voted for him, they realize their mistake. There will be another 2010 route in Congress in November and the Chicago organizer will be moving home.

S. March 5, 2012 at 4:07 pm

You wankers just don’t get it. Liberal or conservative they are all in the bankers/global corporations back pocket. You had 8 years of bushy and all you got for your troubles were trillions of dollars in war debt with NOTHING to show for it except dead kids and a tanked economy. Blame the bankers who stole your money and the corporate lobbyists who bought this president and the last 4. Sadly Citizen’s United has shown that money talks, voters walk.

mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:12 am

yup…more “change you can believe in”

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Chris in California February 20, 2012 at 6:10 am

They do have some stupid rules here and all of them are unconstitutional but we live in an imperfect world. If the federal government would stick to it’s actual authority and follow the second amendment we wouldn’t have ANY of the current gun laws on the books except for those preventing (good luck with that) felons or those suffering from mental deficiencies from owning guns. And since the second amendment is absolute, the states would have to follow it too. We need to elect people who actually follow their oath’s of office and who understand what liberty and freedom are really about. We need to teach everyone the joys of being free and responsible for yourself, because a lot of people don’t seem to understand it these days. Especially in the education field. Only then can we get rid of stupid things like the “bullet button”. You can all help with this endeavor and your help would be greatly appreciated.

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Scott February 20, 2012 at 6:57 am

I would suggest that you do rise up or move to America. Your second amendment right is being infringed upon in a most malicious way. The restrictions on a simple gun are incredible. The manufacturers have to make different parts and mags. As far as money to be made. Most things are just way more important than a dollar. What is to be outlawed next? Sneezing, sex, breathing, where does it end.

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Carl February 20, 2012 at 2:53 pm

A recent law was passed in California that restricts a person from throwing a football or frisbee while at the beach. The fine….. $ 1,000.00 ! Do you think the voters passed this ? No, we didn’t.

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rick derris February 24, 2012 at 1:24 am

@Carl, this. this is the problem right here. You’re ignorant, uninformed and you spread bad information.

Try READING the article you’re referring to, you’ll find out why you look so dumb right now.

Many of us here think of California as a battle state. We’re fighting for our second amendment rights. We’re not sitting back and whining about being victims, we’re doing something about it. We fight in the public eye, we fight in the courts, we fight with our votes. We research, we donate, we write letters, we motivate.

People spreading FUD and outright wrong info is the antithesis of our fight. We’re solidly grounded in right and wrong, facts and evidence. Don’t make it worse.

For those of you in other states that are enjoying you’re rights, enjoy the hell out of them, we’re trying our damnedest to stand next to you. In the mean time, we’d appreciate a little solidarity if not a little help.

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Carl February 25, 2012 at 2:48 pm

If I was standing right in front of you, you wouldn’t be running your mouth.

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rick derris February 26, 2012 at 12:29 am

@Carl, you’re still the problem. Nobody is afraid of a brave man with a keyboard. If you were as tough as you make out to be, you wouldn’t feel the need to make important threats.

Have you read the article? I’m guessing not. If you had read the article, or even the followup articles that pointed out the failings of the FIRST article, you’d understand why you (continue to) look so foolish.

Become a smarter guy, not a bigger ass. Help us, don’t make us out, be a good ambasador to the world of firearms instead of making us look like hillbillies, psychopaths and criminals. (no offense to the fine upstanding hillbillies I’ve come to know and love)

mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:14 am

oh oh…you appearently didn’t get the memo

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Steve M. February 20, 2012 at 7:34 am

Great article, but I’m leaving the tarnished state for the Free State of Arizona in spring of 2012. Can’t wait to pull over to the side of the I-10 freeway at the border and call up Jerry Brownstain to let him know that he lost another Californian to another state.

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tom February 20, 2012 at 12:47 pm

If you think that this problem is not moving there, you need to look around. Arizona is getting targeted.

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Don February 20, 2012 at 7:51 am

I use Kalifornia out of respect to Arnold your former governor. The guy that was going to fix the money problems after Gray Davis drove it to the edge of the cliff. How’s that working out? Kalifornia is lost and if at all possible you need to get the hell out before it’s to late. Specially after the self inflicted wound by electing governor “Moonbeam”. After his next tax increase you may not be able to afford to buy a gun.

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Ron Whipple February 20, 2012 at 11:55 am

Rise up?????? Give me a break….

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Lucky February 20, 2012 at 7:55 am

After the gold dredge ban by democraps I will avoid travel through the (brass state Ca) and spending money. I will travel 395 with my money , gold and guns. Rest in pieces Kalifornia , Vancover island and Wrangle Alaska were wance part of California. I hope Brownstain has snow shoes Lol !.

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frankgon4 February 20, 2012 at 8:46 am

This article does make it sound complicated to ship to California. Some Examples quotes from article:
“California Penal Code Section 30515″
“any FFL shipping a weapon to a California must be on a list within the CA DOJ database”
“As for handguns, any pistol or revolver must be certified by the state as “safe”. These weapons are listed on a roster of certified handguns. Per the California DOJ:”
“If, however, the gun is a standard AR, AK, or other s rifle, it can only be shipped to a CA Assault Weapons Dealer, and can only go to a LEO, or other person specified by statute.”
“Just contact the state’s DOJ, and they will walk you through how to go through the system. ” REALLY??? You have to spend time calling politicians to make sure your legal to sell?

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KF February 23, 2012 at 1:20 am

“REALLY??? You have to spend time calling politicians to make sure your legal to sell?”

No.

Go to the DoJ website, and look at the roster yourself. If it’s on there, or if it fits the exemptions (like it’s a single-shot or C&R) you’re good to go.

It’s very frustrating to run into these “no sales to CA” sellers who think they’re making a political statement. They are, in fact, doing exactly what the anti-gun politicians want: making it harder for Californians to buy guns. Personally, I won’t do any business with anyone who has this policy, not even for things like cleaning kits and rifle slings, and not even if the laws change and you change your mind down the road. If you have such a policy on your ads, don’t bother bidding on a gun I’ve put up, either–I won’t sell to you, just like you won’t sell to me. I’m not the only one who feels this way, either–there’s a growing number of people on the calguns forums who say the same thing.

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:16 am

then when the LEO retires or quits DOJ starts hounding him/her relentlessly about that AR

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Bill February 20, 2012 at 8:46 am

Great article. After reading it I am more firmly convinced than before not to deal with anybody in California. It sounds more like Nazi Germany than the United States of America. You have to be a lawyer to understand all the ins and outs of CA laws. It’s not worth all the hassle to sell a gun there when there are about 46 other States remaining in America where free men still live. We need to start at the top by voting Obama out of office and continuing on downward from there to purge the liberals from our political system. Will the last free man in California please turn off the lights when you leave.

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strom19 February 20, 2012 at 9:09 am

I was a FFL dealer behind enemy lines ( Kalifornia) for 15 years and I’m here to tell you everything about that state with exception of it’s beauty is a state of socialistic laws, environmental freak’s and revolutionary Marxist leadership. I moved out of that state and now reside in the America where all guns including class 3 weapons are legal to own. God Bless America!

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Ralph De La Huerta February 20, 2012 at 9:16 am

I don’t agree with “More guns to California”, let those liberal bums throw flowers and used condoms at the criminals.

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makemyday in CO February 20, 2012 at 11:15 am

If that isn’t the truth!!

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Jeff W. February 21, 2012 at 11:32 am

Who are you calling ‘Liberal Bums’? You two? Ralph Mouth and Broke Back Mountain? Do the math morons, there are over 30 million legal/illegal souls in this State but probably AT LEAST 10 million of us ARE NOT Liberal daisies. As a matter of fact (look it up yourself) our numbers probably eclipse the entire combined populations of your little state hoods (and yes, our penises are bigger too :).

Despite the difficulty of getting access to every firearm in existence, we have PLENTY of gun stores and guns. One day we’ll overcome this infringement of our rights. In the meantime have a little respect..

Jeff

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:17 am

that ain’t the issue in Kali….your gonna need a gun to protect yourself when the border goes nuclear

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Grant B. February 20, 2012 at 9:27 am

As a conservative and political history buff, I’m amazed at how people blame liberals for California’s gun restrictive laws. Out of the last 20 governors of that state, a large majority, 14 total, were republican. Somewhere along the way, including recent history, republicans had the power and opportunity to loosen the restrictive gun laws.

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HisStoryUn February 20, 2012 at 12:01 pm

@Grant B.
You may call yourself a “political history buff”, but denying that liberals are to blame directly and completely for the violation of Constitutional law here is simply incorrect. I have lived here for 50 years and can tell you without any equivocation that liberals are indeed fully, completely and most sincerely at fault! A governor does not make law, the legislators do. Even Reagan was saddled with a democrap legislature. No where “along the way” did republicans ever have such an opportunity, and even [if] they had, the next group would have just changed the clock hands to suit themselves.

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RussM February 20, 2012 at 12:13 pm

Grant,
What you don’t realize is that both houses of the state legislature have had Democratic “Super majorities” for the last 30 years. The Governor does not have as much power relative to the legislature as the US President has with Congress. So even though we have had Republicans as Governor(and in the legislature) the liberals have ruled this state into ruin.

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David February 20, 2012 at 2:32 pm

@Grant B,
Republicans in Kalifornia are liberals anywhere else. And, there governors never had control of the rest of their congress. They also had to deal with your media.

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Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:32 pm

Agreed, has nobody heard of “Gun ban Dan”. Dan Lungren never met a gun ban he didn’t love, and he’s a “conservative Republican” from this great state of California. It is not a Liberal Dem/Conservate Reep issue.

Look up Lou Correa (a CA legislature Dem), Roderick Wright (a CA state senate dem, and a black guy!) these guys are very pro gun.

I’m liberal in my views of gay marriage, marijuana, should be legal and pro choice abortion, but extremely pro gun.

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Shootstright February 20, 2012 at 9:51 am

How many of these gun owners in CA are NRA members ? How many of them have sat on there asses and not voted ?
They got what they deserved and now want us to sell guns to them .
80 to 90 million gun owners in this country and only about 4 million are NRA members . Just think about that for a bit .

A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.

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SDDutch February 20, 2012 at 12:22 pm

I am a gun owner and I am not a member of the NRA for one very specific reason. The NRA does not support all gun owners. The NRA has its own version of the “Divide and Conquer” policy among gun owners which is similar to the way politicians divide gun owners by stating that it is Ok to have a bolt action hunting rifle, pump shotgun, etc., but not a military style look-a-like rifle that fires the same caliber bullet.

The NRA views some guns as bad and others as good for civilian ownership. A perfect example of this is the civilian ownership of machine guns. Although it is perfectly legal for civilians in most states to own machine guns, the NRA has never supported that right and will not publicly support the right either. If you don’t believe me, just send a letter to the NRA asking what their position is on machine guns and they will either ignore you or answer your question with some generic B.S. that doesn’t really answer your question or send you a bunch of flyers in the mail that have nothing to do with your request.

If you ask local NRA “leaders” they will say things like “What do you “need” those things for?”, or make some type of comment regarding your sanity for simply wanting to possess a machine gun as a private (non law enforcement) citizen.

I currently own 15 machine guns and thoroughly enjoy shooting them as much as possible and teaching others about machine guns and legal ownership.

The NRA was compliant and supported the 1986 ban on civilian ownership of newly manufactured machine guns and for that reason I will not send another penny of my hard earned money to support an organization that does not support me.

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Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:38 pm

Man you really need to get with the times. That was the NRA prior to being “taken over” by gunnies in the 1970′s. The NRA does not sit idly by and let gun bans happen. How can you possibly think they don’t support you. 1968 was 44 years ago. The NRA is completely different now. Get with the times and pony up some dough.

Also realize that even here in super hippie liberal San Francisco, the handgun ban Prop H only passed with 58% of the vote. The NRA filed a lawsuit and defeated it swiftly.

To quote someone much smarter than me, ” It is NEVER ok to NOT be an NRA member”

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Chinner08 February 20, 2012 at 2:12 pm

If there are so many more owners than NRA members, why are you blaming Californians? There is no way that that state could make up the difference. BTW, if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. It will only take time since you are too selfish to do anything for anyone but yourselves.

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CoinandGunGuy February 20, 2012 at 10:05 am

As dealer in a border state, and a former victim of kalifornia’s bazaar laws, I do appreciate the plight of those still stuck behind enemy lines. We even have a sign up in the shop welcoming people to the United States. No, I’m not trying to be ‘cute’ but rather being realistic. We have a number of kalifornia residents in every single day of the month trying to get us to violate federal laws and sell them guns. Not a gun show goes by where I don’t have a steady stream of the same thing, asking if I am a ‘private seller’ so they can buy things. Sure, 8 tables of brand new guns, big banner with the shop name and business cards all over the table equals ‘private seller.’ Sure. I have tried to deal with your laws but have now given up. After getting threatened with a criminal complaint because the stainless version of the gun I shipped was ‘illegal’ but the blue one was ‘legal’ and they wanted their money back, I formally give up. I’ve helped victims, er, a residents, like my customer who could buy the Colt 1911 but since the slide was engraved, it was now banned gun, so I mailed him the slide directly while the transfer dealer transfered him the receiver. It just isn’t worth the mountain of effort to try and keep up with your bazaarness. But I will still be happy to sell you all the ammo and natural capacity magazines if you stop by the shop, and I will continue to help those who escape by fixing all those stupid ‘bullet buttons’ and restoring them to natural working order.

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Nagmashdriver December 3, 2012 at 9:17 pm

“bazaar” is a market. “bizarre” is weird, strange, unconventional.

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old6strings February 20, 2012 at 10:13 am

I’m sick of this Kalifornia crap, I’ve lived here most of my 60 plus years and bought a lot of guns through dealers
here and out of state. If your business is so good you don’t need us, stay the hell out. There are plenty of
AR builders right here, we’ll keep ‘em all gladly. If you don’t like to read, don’t bother selling guns in California.
If you don’t mind doing a little research, you’ll find you have quite a few choices. So I had to take off the flash
suppressor on my M1A and replace it with a compensator, big deal. 10 round mag, who cares? Buy two or three
and load them up. I don’t get all the whining, sell here and make some money, but I guess you have so much
you don’t need our dollars, sounds fine to me. I look forward to a time when every state has the same laws
and they cut out the crap that is on the books in many states but until then, I’ll keep buying right here.
There are some counties here so hard core right wing that they would make most states look downright liberal.
This is one big state, don’t lump us gun enthusiasts in with those under-educated law makers who don’t know what
they are doing. Every state has some stupid laws, you can’t avoid it, but you can educate yourself and learn
how to work with it.

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Bill February 20, 2012 at 12:11 pm

Well bless your little old heart old6strings. Sounds like you have been buying more than a few guns. You have bought your States mind control program and probably even bought “hope and change” three years ago. Stay in Mexifornia and when they come for your guns make sure you tell them what a great job they are doing by denying your your rights under the United States Constitution.

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:22 am

the issue in Kali is that the politicians are dictating every facet of your life…taxing the bejesus out of you…and giving the store away to their “base of power” — visa-vie Illegals…..you go across the state line (except south of course) and if your a resident you can buy a gun in about 20 minutes and walk out with it…do the politicians really think that the CROOKS are going to gun shops and filling out FFL forms??? Crooks don’t buy guns they steal yours to commit crimes….the gun laws are just the tip of the iceburg as far as problems go in Kali

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MEB February 20, 2012 at 10:15 am

As a former Kalifornia born and raised,I am so glad I got out of there.I now live in
a state where your right to carry is observed.Open or CCW ,Try getting a suppressor
In that state ..Why do the people stand for it ? They closed all the public ranges .
You can’t go out and just plink.You go to a indoor range ,You can’t go alone .
If the people want to stand for there rights are being taken away ,I say when you
Need to protect your family ,Call the police and hope they get there on time.
A praise to the BARRETT FAMILY for not sending there weapons to the LEOs
Take your rights back ,Fire those who won’t listen .Vote them out !!!
You can keep that state !!!

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Geo1 February 20, 2012 at 10:46 am

I have just a few choice words…Screw the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia!
And stay out of NM!

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DEaton66 February 28, 2012 at 11:25 pm

Wow.

Geo1, remember that we live in the UNITED States. We all areading this article and navigated to this page because we have belief in common – The Constitution. If you abandon your brothers and sisters in Kalifornia then we are surely doomed to fail in our quest for our 2A Rights. This sort of apathy and isolationist behavior is a large part of what divided the North from the South.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

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Gabriel February 20, 2012 at 10:49 am

I acually feel shamed when people find out I own guns becouse of all the bad hoopla here in Cali. I have for the longest been thinking about buying a center semi auto AR/AK type gun but feel like the Govt. would put me on some kind of watch. I have heard stories about search warrants served on people who buy bulk amo and the truth is that my Goverment scares me. I also agree that no newley manufactured gun should go off when droped no matter where it’s sold but that’s the only rule that I really agree with.

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Robert February 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm

Being on a watch list may not be too far off. Years ago after the “assault weapons” ban/registration, it was heard over police radio dispatch where officers were advised they going to an address that had a registered occupant. Evidently the database was available to the police. Do not know if this is still the case or not, but I did hear it on my scanner at least once.

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M May 9, 2012 at 6:09 am

Robert,

You are quite RIGHT, there is much truth in post, others in Cali. beware!! I had a non-marked blk Crown Vic. tail me on the CA. central coast, studied me for miles and pulled me over for window tint even though it was just a removable blind type. After a couple salvoes of “you don’t have any firearms in the car with you do you?”, no, no! I was stunned to hear the officer say, “Well you do have a LARGE number of guns registered to you” …my winging it reply, “DONT YOU?” He said yes, his dad had owned a range and,….well I must say I was relieved the officer turned out to be human… Others may not be so lucky…….Hello Big Brother!!!

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MtGoat February 20, 2012 at 11:01 am

It is not worth ones freedom to miss some small detail in the California laws and ship something that gets you in trouble. If California wants to be treated the same as all of the other states CHANGE YOUR STATE LAWS.
Why should I have to do MUCH more homework to make sure I stay compliant?

I do wish those in California the best of luck and hope they can get the madness reversed.

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Rick Danzey February 20, 2012 at 11:04 am

Unfortunately for those of us surviving in California, the liberal agenda is firmly in place. Our children are indoctrinated in schools to be anti-gun. So, changing our state government is nearly futile and I’m thankful those few in the state legislature who adamently stand for our 2A rights. I embrace the main article for the position taken on sales to California for I strongly believe that the only way to beat the system is to beat it from within. Sell to everyone or don’t sell at all.

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Prchrmn2 February 20, 2012 at 1:36 pm

Do like we did STOP sending the children to the indoctrination camps called Public Schools…chose rather to home school or private school. You are correct by the time they turn 18 they are so indoctrinated that they will either not see the light or the lightbulb will not click on til they are between 35 and 40 and by then it is too late the y have conributed to the overall damage and a generation is lost not understadning what it is to be freemen having Liberty…Remember the LEFTIST STATIST call it freedom…which is carte blanche to do what “feels good”… the founders fought and died for LIBERTY and conservatives and other patriotic AMERICANS know that with Liberty comes responsibility!

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Carl February 20, 2012 at 11:19 am

When you look at a map during election time, Calif. is always a blue state; which is a Dem. or “liberal” designation. If the same map is viewed by counties you will see a different picture. The map becomes mostly red. We need to stick together in America, no matter which state we live in. We are the United States of America. Together we can take back our Country. Don’t let the Fools win; continue to fight them.

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HANDGUNNER February 20, 2012 at 11:22 am

I UNDERSTAND WE SHOULD SELL TO CALIFORNIA. PROBLEM IS I HAVE DEALERS IN MY AREA WHO DO NOT SELL BECAUSE OR EXTRA FORMS OR WHAT NOT TO BE ABLE TO SELL THERE. I AM NOT AN FFL HOLDER, IF THEY ARE RELUCTANT TO SELL WHY DO I WANT TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THEIR MESS. I DO PUT ON MY AUCTIONS I WILL SELL TO CALIFORNIA IF THEIR DEALER WILL ACCEPT SHIPMENT FROM A NON FFL HOLDER, MANY WILL NOT. I USE KALIFORNIA AS A JOKE BECAUSE OF THEIR (ANTI GUN) OLD GOVERNOR, LET ME SEE WHO WAS THAT “ARNIE”!!!!

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Matt February 22, 2012 at 5:39 pm

Arnold was a joke, but hey he was a “Republican” they are good for guns right?? Arnold screwed us over on the 50BMG ban big time.

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DEaton66 February 28, 2012 at 11:30 pm

Arnold screwed us on lots of things. I’m just glad that AB962 (registration of ammunition purchases) got clobbered before it went into effect.

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Dave February 20, 2012 at 11:30 am

I too, am guilty of spelling it Kalifornia, I just think it makes a point and is funny( yes, weird sense of humor).
But I use this on listings for guns that cannot be shipped into the state(mainly high cap). I do sell into the state but I charge an extra $20 for the pain in the tail paperwork.
I personally have a high amount of animosity toward the state and it’s occupants. I have lived all over the west and had Californians move to my wonderful state, “to get away from onerous regulations” just to have them start in again trying to transform their new state into California North or California East, (Ore, Wash, Colo etc.)
I have never understood, why leave a place and then try to make the new one just as stupid and bad?
Freedom has always worked and Progressive Liberalism NEVER has.

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Chinner08 February 20, 2012 at 2:24 pm

“I personally have a high amount of animosity toward the state and it’s occupants.”

So you have animosity towards people whom you have never met simply because they live in a particular state?

That really is a microcosm of most of the comments I’ve read here.

Here are some other words that describe it: BIGOTRY & PREJUDICE.

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Don Tremaine February 20, 2012 at 11:47 am

I was trying to purchase an 1886 Winchester 2011 limited edition from “Cheaper than Dirt”. They will not ship to California. I called them on the phone to inquire about this. Their response was an under aged person requested a catalog. This seems pretty benign; however, they were sued for “Marketing guns to children”. I can’t blame them, I blame California and the idiots who moved here and are destroying California. I was born here and I have seen this state deteriorate over the decades. I can’t leave because my wife wants to stay. I just have to deal with the idiocy of the liberals.

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Administrator February 20, 2012 at 12:00 pm

Well that’ll teach you to buy from bottom feeders.

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Kevin Walker February 20, 2012 at 11:49 am

Great article on the depressing state of freedom in the once “Golden State”. They have so many laws in this state that everyone is basically innocent until investigated, so I understand the reluctance of gun dealers and owners to send firearms to Kalifornia. I also agree that unless there is federal civil rights intervention, Kalifornia will continue on the glorious path of socialism, to truly become a workers’ paradise.

Like most of those who are able; last week we relocated to America; Anthem Arizona to be specific. It is great to finally live in a free country!!! I can now let my kids ride in the bed of a pick-up truck, drive 75mph down the highway, own any Class 3 weapons, Automatic Knives (Switchblades) and can carry a gun in public concealed or unconcealed without a permit of any kind, like the Founding Fathers intended. On top of all that, everything costs less here, people are nice and the schools are excellent. I know longer feel like a “Thought Criminal”, as I now live among my peers and fellow citizens.

California continues to lose population and would not have a net increases in population were it not for the influx of illegal aliens and new births. Producers (tax payers) continue to leave the state and those that stay, like the Hollywood elite, live in Beverly Hills and Malibu, but use their out-of-state residences (ranches in Montana, etc.) to avoid the high taxes levied on the rest of the state’s population. So those wanting hand outs continue to increase in number while the number of people paying the bills continues to shrink.

I have friends in California who would like to leave now, but can not because of their professions. Once they retire, they will all be selling their homes and relocating to Nevada, Arizona and Colorado respectively. I wish them the best of luck. Although I wish conservatism would triumph some day in California, I know it will never happen.

Best Regards,

Kevin

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:28 am

the problem is is this….the real problem in Kali is not singular to Kali…ALL border states are experiencing the same problems and it is moving North….essentially, Kali is the watershed for the entire country becoming a third world nation…You look at Mexico right now — anarchy there…why?? Crooked politicians for decades turning a blind eye to crime and criminal activity and GUNS are illegal there….so the populace is cannon fodder for the cartels…the politicians who were “safe” years ago now are in the same crossfire as the citizens…you have anarchy and they can’t stop it….at least in the U.S.A you could load up all your 10 round mags and go out in a blaze of glory and take a few cartel jackholes with you….they don’t have that option in Mexico so they have TOTAL unabated kaos

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Jimmyjet February 20, 2012 at 11:49 am

It might have been appropriate to mention that the Calif. legislature is one of the most corrupt in the U.S. Probably more dirty than New York’s and Illinois’ combined. From outright buying the votes of ILLEGAL immigrants from south of the border with free-money programs, to finding comfy little no-work positions in state government for termed-out Democrat politicians, The Cali. state legislature is responsible for the states multi= billion deficit and perhaps the libtards will someday figure that one out.
We can safely assume that the Dems are in favor of banning the possession of all firearms by Cali’s citizens, knowing that their chances of escaping rope burns of the neck are a lot better if the citizenry if unarmed.

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Bert February 20, 2012 at 11:51 am

I thought the same thing untill I sold a gun to a Californian, transfered through a local CA authorised license holder to his CA license holder (local gun shop).

Garden variety Ruger MkII with a bull barrel. MKII is on “the approved list”, but the barrel changes everything, OMG, IT’S CA ILLEGAL GUN!!!

Never again.

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gatorpaw February 20, 2012 at 11:51 am

gatorpaw,
Until the people of California stand up and demand that the US Constitution( especially the 2nd Amendment ) be followed, nothing will change. I agree with the responder who gave the stats about the number of NRA members. The NRA is the outfit that is responsible for challenging and winning all the court cases that threaten to remove our gun rights in this country. They can’t do that forever without money. Just increasing membership to 20 million instead of the current 4 million would greatly improve the gun rights situation in America. You would think that with the 2nd Amendment we wouldn’t have to fight so hard to preserve our gun rights. If you are worried about the future of our country, you should join the NRA. They fight hard, every day, to protect our gun rights. If we allow the politicians to continue to attack the 2nd Amendment, we will lose the rest of the Constitution.

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:29 am

If you stand up your a racist or radical

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DCW February 20, 2012 at 11:55 am

So many darkness cursers; so few candle lighters. Sometimes I think the future of the American economy must lie in the Outrage Industry. You California haters, I regret to tell you: Just because the flavor is different doesn’t mean you aren’t all drinking your own variety of Kool-Aid.

I half-respect the opinions of people who have had unsatisfactory experiences trying to ship into California and have made the business decision that it isn’t worth the aggravation to try to comply with these laws. But I point out that letter of the law interpretations would have clued them in that the gun they were trying to ship in was not going to make the border crossing successfully. Yes the blue/stainless distinction is stupid. But if it’s documented, what are we to say of a shipper and his prospective resident buyer who tried to slip in a gun that any prudent individual would have known was going to fail? There is a minimum level of awareness required to make a successful gun transaction anywhere, and it is not California’s fault if the parties to such a transaction in this state aren’t up to managing the details.

California has 12 percent of the country’s population and 15% of its gun buying dollars. For all the arm-waving about “communist” policies and “unconstitutional” restrictions, the residents here manage to buy hundreds of thousands of guns a year from the hundreds of local FFLs and even from the further hundreds of out of state sellers who have no qualms about dealing with CA residents. Are we to think that the comfort levels of those sellers and shippers are the result of misinformation, and that their high volume of successful transactions are purely accidental? The numbers contradict the passionate and mostly uninformed assertions of the California haters.

Footnote: for those who think CA is a solidly liberal state, consider that the number of conservatives in this state (registered Republicans, Libertarians and conservative independents) exceeds the conservative population of the hard red states South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana combined. Yes, California conservatives are outnumbered in the legislature, a side effect of two decades of faulty reapportionment processes. Let’s see where this goes in the future.

Point of information: the “K” thing is more demeaning to those who use it than to the Californians they seek to denigrate. Use the K spelling, and you look like a dolt to everyone who isn’t imprisoned in the hate-California echo chamber.

Even if this post does not survive moderation, I hope the moderator got something out of it.

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Erik S. February 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm

At last, an intelligent post. Ignorance is the enemy and it’s alive and well in all 50 states and sadly too many of these posts. If we (American citizens) hope to prevail in this matter we really do need to stick together. The craziness in CA. won’t stop at the state line.

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William Bolton February 20, 2012 at 12:00 pm

The second amendment is on it’s way out. Just try to buy one of the newest developments in small arms technology and you’ll see. Even if you have a 3rd class FFL and the desire to pay for a tax stamp, the newest developments in small arms are now prohibited from civilian ownership. This is very clear violation of the Constitution and is infringement on the right to keep and bear arms. Past Supreme Court decisions have been clear that the 2nd is to allow equal small arms of the government for the people also. Quietly gone! The traitors are busy and now we cannot have anything but yesterdays small arms. It won’t be long until they’re at the dorr of all small arms owners with a seizure order.

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Steve February 20, 2012 at 12:06 pm

As a retailer, I totally get the logic here and am glad I read this article. Those that refuse to sell to California are only hurting the citizenry of California who desire firearms for the same reasons we all do. The leftist polititians are winning when retailers refuse sale to Califonians.
This article should also be read as a primer to those in states leaning toward more gun control. Look at California as an example of what can happen to your rights if the leftist are left running the playpen. Some of this stuff you can’t make up, you just have to see it as a law before you understand it’s obsurdity.

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Rich February 20, 2012 at 12:09 pm

Interesting money based article. DID NOT DO A THING FOR ME. And if I just wanted to make money, well I guess I’d ship there. But truly, Not a Chance I will. Too many stupid laws and silliness of that state. So if you want to enjoy the liberties of the 2ND Amendment and have people ship you a gun – out vote the liberals, or move.

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J.N. February 20, 2012 at 12:26 pm

Rich,

It sounds to me you’re refusing to sell (and I respect that as your right) based on ideology? Why not help us stick it to the legislators and sell to CA?
By keeping guns out of CA you are doing exactly what they (antis) want you to do and that is to help ban guns from CA.
Unfortunately, by not helping to support the pro 2A in CA, your ideology is in line with those whose are attempting to ban all guns, the ideology of an anti.

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Flyoverstate February 20, 2012 at 3:30 pm

J.N.
I’m not a dealer, so I don’t have a dog in this hunt. But why do you expect an out-of-stater to risk his livelyhood by selling to you? According to the author, there are plenty of dealers in Kalifornia. Stick it to your legislators yourselves. Do you actually know how far from the rest of the country your state is? You have, by a large margin, the highest Brady score of any state. (Not a good thing). While we all wish every state observed the second amendment, your state is lost. On many fronts. Sorry.

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J.N. February 20, 2012 at 5:00 pm

Fly,

Thanks for your “lost cause” blessing. Why fight for something when you can sit on your laurels and reap the benefits right? Please.

I don’t expect anyone to do anything (as many of the posts to this article are unfortunately exemplifying) but to right off an entire state and say it’s “your fault” is hasty generalization that lumps over zealous idiots and 2A activists in the same bunch.
This article is an attempt to inspire and motivate those who support 2A rights to help those in CA. I’m not talking about money (livelihood), I’m talking about writing off someone else’s civil rights do to a flawed “its your own darn fault/you don’t like it, move/well i’ll sit here in my free state” ideology.

Thanks, but no thanks fly-over. Next time I’m passing through your neck of the woods I’ll keep flying.

hernadez February 20, 2012 at 12:12 pm

California should be called, Communist California, we also too have morons in Sacramento in BSIS division which to dictates what kind of Firearm can be used in Security . This whole state is ridiculous, an simple answer to be is to leave commie California for good. As far as, Bullet Buttons crap it is f**ked up. I heard people build a AK’s from an parts kit, remove trunions, ad side folders, bend receiver from flats and, not keep magazine fixed, find a creative legal way to put it in a will like people do in Vegas for supressors to basicly kick Calfiornia in the huevos. I rather save up coin to leave Commie California for good and build and buy all the AK’s I want along with a bunch of Nagant rifles with an C&R

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Jeff W. February 21, 2012 at 11:52 am

Hey Bro,

Tell me where to send the bus ticket too…

Vaya Con Dios

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Joe February 20, 2012 at 12:30 pm

I grew up in Kaleefornia and once was proud of that fact. But these days I’m not only ashamed, despite doing everything I can ( like voting ) to help get my state back. It seems pretty hopeless. I have bought nearly forty guns, mostly online through auctions, in the last few years. Hopefully they will appreciate and help my retirement when I sell them. I am extremely grateful to dealers who defy my commy govt. and do business with CA buyers like me. It is sort of like “leave no man behind”, even if they are behind enemy lines, like gunowners in california are. I badly want to move to a “free state”, as do many other californians like me. Here’s the problem though. Some of us can’t just pick up and move on a whim, because of our jobs or elderly relatives etc. The other thing is, if all the people who want to get the hell out of Kaleefornia did it, a lot of the people in other states who tell us we should leave, will not like to be “crowded” by the all their new neighbors. They would know first hand how we native californians feel. ( by the invasion of Mexico )

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Frank February 20, 2012 at 12:33 pm

Yep I totally get the notion of wanting to punish law abiding gun owners, who only want to spend their money with you, because they happen to live in California which has a sucky political climate. We elected only three Democrats as governor in the 20th century, two of them named Brown. But the Democrats have, for most of the past 60 years, had a strangle hold on the Legislature. Governors have signed bad bills harmful to our rights to get bills they needed through. That’s how politics and the legislative game work, after all.

What happened to the revolutionary spirit? For all this talk about “free America”, it seems to me that many have that concept pretty narrowly defined. But revolution, a peaceful one, is what we are doing here in California, one gun sale, one AR build, one court case at a time. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are dedicated to winning back our rights, and millions more who are law abiding gun owners but who are not intimately involved in the fight like some of us are.

If out of state FFLs don’t want to ship direct into California for whatever reason, at least have the decency to ship to a middleman FFL, there are a good number around the country, who is set up to ship into California and is happy to help us.

Single shot exemption for semi-autos and single action exemption are two different things. Neither are sketchy, both are well documented and the buyer making the gun whole again after delivery is not manufacturing. Understanding the laws that the statists pass, and being able to work within them, is how we will eventually win.

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tom February 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm

If you would like the 2nd Amendment to be strong and enduring, then it’s smarter to support California’s shooters, hunters and firearms owners and instructors.
California leads the county in trends, popular and liberal movements and visibility.
That will not change in the next four years or forty years. Every effort to avoid dealing with California Shooters is Direct and Collaborative Support for the Anti-gun Factions. This is where the fight is!
Help us support the Second Amendment here through involvement and assistance.

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Yuri February 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm

If you think California is bad, you should see the nonsense we have to put up with in New York!

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Ernie February 20, 2012 at 12:57 pm

I lived in Cali starting in 1971 and left in 2006. I saw the liberal nuts take away our rights slowly until it was just too much for me to stand anymore. I left for a more gun friendly state and I didn’t have to go far, I now live in Nevada and feel I can breathe again and fully enjoy my 2nd amendment rights. I can now carry open or concealed. I have had my CCW permit for 6 years and I carry all the time. I own hi-cap mags and rifles with all the “bad” attributes. I don’t have an AK or an AR but, I do have an SKS with a Tapco stock which has a pistol grip and a adjustable stock, same for my Ruger Mini-14 and my 10/22. Like the saying goes, “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!” My advice is leave Cali for a more gun friendly better place, and they are plenty to choose from. The liberals who control Cali will keep introducing more and more restrictive legislation until you won’t be able to own any form of firearm, long gun, shotgun or handgun. Crime is on the rise as the state creates a state full of “sheep” for citizens and the criminal “wolves” find it easy pickings with no “sheepdogs” around to defend everyone. Just try to get a CCW permit in any big cities where crime is high and you will be refused. If you live in a rural county, you are more likely to get one but, crime just isn’t that high there, less people to commit against and they are more likely to be armed! I don’t see things getting better in Cali, just worse and that is most unfortunate. Just watch, if the National reciprocity bill passes the US Senate and it becomes law, Cali will become like Illinois and outlaw concealed carry, they will then revoke all CCW permits, they will prevent anyone from within or outside of Cali from being able to carry concealed there.

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Jimbo February 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm

They do this to a lesser extent to New York also. And the NRA and other gun rights groups have ignored our state for years, thinking us all a lost cause. (They associate ALL New Yorkers, with New York City.) New York state’s assault weapons ban is very vague. ANYONE who purchases an AR-15 style gun or a semi-auto version of the AK-47 SHOULD be on on guard at all times that some DA will use the vague law to beat them down. We DO have gun owners in NY who would benefit if the NRA decided to sponsor some pro-gun legislation, but the agency seems to ignore us.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 1:11 pm

To all of the California haters! (or persons with unsympathetic leanings )…. Telling us to “move, vote out the antis or stay out of my state”, you are not demonstrating your support of 2A rights for all. Look, we are fellow firearm enthusiasts. We LOVE them as much as you. We agree in principal, love freedom and support all of the same 2A organizations that you do. Your support and encouragement is more helpful.

Sure, there are strong political forces here that place limits on our rights however, no matter how much we vote, support, email, call or debate, when others around the country choose to disregard us- it only strengthens the Antis in California BY DEFAULT!

How many times do you hear “As California goes so goes the Nation”? Guess what? You better get on board and support us or it will eventually come around and bite you in the butt. I don’t want California to be the liberal leader of the nation either. HELP US! Visit Calguns.net. You will find amazing enthusiasts here and a strong foundation concerning government affairs. Your support, here, protects your rights wherever you are.

God Bless our troops and God Bless America!

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Chinner08 February 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm

Amen Brother!

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John February 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm

I have never heard, “As California goes, so does the Nation.”

In fact, the only impact California has ever had on me or my state is their stupid restrictions which now cause me to have to buy gas tanks for my lawn mower with a little stupid safety nozzle. I love California’s commercial about taking a vacation there, “Everyone thinks that we all surf, or that we all own a winery, or that we’re all celebrities.” NO ONE THINKS THAT.

I really sympathize for you brother, I truly do. But California won’t be affecting Texas or any state with reciprocity to Texas, such as Ohio and many others. Sending guns to Cali won’t help anything. None of us have a voice in your state and apparently neither do you. Face it…..get out or get with the program.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 10:47 pm

John, I think you know what “as California goes so goes the nation”. That gas can is just an example of what you can expect in the future. Having more guns here is not the point. Manufacturers and dealers have substantial resources that they and their governmental affairs associates leverage to ‘fight’ the back **wards laws/restrictions the antis are vigorously pushing , right?

If these same companies used their noggins and put their ‘holier than thou’ attitude aside for the ’cause’ they could then see that a very large state with a very large enthusiast population is a great source for additional resources to help sustain strong 2A rights. Self preservation my brothers! I am doing my part, right now, on a broadly read forum, educating and informing others how to help. Cursing the darkness has never brought light.

I admit I commiserate with my fellow forum members on Calguns.net (we call ourselves ‘calgunners’) and may rant some. I am not blaming anyone for their, correct, opinion that California legislators are blowin’ it up here. Just want everyone to know that calgunners are up to their elbows in the muddy trenches and deserve your support…. the gas can is just ‘the camel’s nose under the tent’. Support us and keep the camel’s nose where it belongs.

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chris February 20, 2012 at 1:12 pm

if a gun is not on a list of banned –or –restricted ,,there is no legal requirement to register,or transfer that gun—they encourage you to do so–whats that worth……….plus there are huge amounts of older guns that are not allowed to be transferred in a gun store ,such as seacamps, but private parties can,…….they cannot say when you got an older gun that is not allowed sold in the store anymore–as long as its not an assault weapon..

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paul February 20, 2012 at 1:18 pm

As a lifelong resident I see some of the gun laws as helping the existing gun stores keep their monopoly. 99% of the stores are total gun snobs and will not sell a gun that they can not make a couple of hundred dollars on. They are not willing to discount firearms, most charge full list.

If you wish to buy a C&R handgun from out of state, you will find that the FFL may not even do this for you, if they do, they want $100 of more for a single out of state transfer. This is designed to keep them expensive and to fill the coffers of the gun stores.

As a businessman, myself, I do realize that it cost a lot more to do business in California, but with a state sponsored monopoly, we get the shaft, which is exactly what the Calif gun laws are designed to do. They do deserve to make a profit, but there is no need to be competive

C&R rifles can be shipped directly to the C&R licensee and the licensee can buy C&R handguns out of state(but may not bring back assembled hi cap mags), so we have to leave the state on a buying trip if we want a decent price on collectible handguns.

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gomer pyle February 20, 2012 at 1:22 pm

one criticism–if you must use the infamous term, “assault rifle”, put quotes around it except where quoting California law. then capitalize each word (Assault Rifle). preferably, we should all modify our language to eliminate this verbal tool of the anti’s with the exception of those weapons actually used by the military and Still in Military Configuration; e.g., full auto. every time we say assault rifle we confirm the anti’s description of ordinary semi-automatic rifles.

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John G. February 20, 2012 at 1:35 pm

As a dealer in California, it just chaps my hyde when I am told no sale to Ca. by some distributors, after going through the process of signing up for an account with them. What needs to happen is a 10th and possibly a 14th amendment lawsuit. By not allowing weapons into the state that are built to very exacting industry standards, that are accepted by the other 49 normal states, Ca. has set themselves aside and said we are special, and in the process have violated the interstate commerce clause by not allowing weapons in, and charging what basically amounts to a tax to do business here. Plus there is a question of equal treatment under the law that comes up. At the Shot Show I asked several manufacturers about this, and to a one, they said that’s a great idea, but all of them were unwilling to look into it further, mostly I got “why don’t you talk with the NRA”, but when I did, I was stone walled. Maybe I am just nuts, misguided, or flat out wrong, but everyday this state goes unchallened on their progressive/ marxist policies is a day lost to history, and the undoing of our country.

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Sobeit February 20, 2012 at 1:42 pm

I too was a FFL dealer in Kalifornia. I also moved to free America. The answer here, like Barrett firearms who will not repair any law enforcement Barrett .50 rifles and if sent in will confiscate them. We, the rest of the USA, should participate in an all-out boycott of sales of any firearms or ammunition to anyone in Kalifornia, including Law Enforcement. If you can Boycott everything please do so. Doing firearm business with anyone in Kalifornia is as wrong as the US selling nuclear bombs to Iran. The State is an enemy of all free Americans.
http://gunowners.org/op0304.htm

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 2:16 pm

You cant’ be serious! If so….you are the perfect example of intolerant ignorance! Good Luck with that! You will probably learn the hard way that “you only hurt the ones you love”. This is exactly what the antis need and will destroy any chance of stemming the tide of anti 2A rights NATIONWIDE!

Quote: “The State is an enemy of all free Americans” Really! Does that mean all free Americans are an enemy of our state? You need a history lesson… I don’t have the time to waste to give you one. Maybe someone else will waste there time on you…Oh I know who… The antis….They will LOVE you for being such a great example of their argument!

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Sobeit February 20, 2012 at 5:02 pm

Your State is our enemy. Kalifornia has a large population. Its Liberal Representatives infest the Congress. Your Government has been invaded and is being occupied by the Stalinists. Your State is exporting its vile socialist agenda nationwide: Senator Feinstein, Senator Boxer and Representative Pelosi…… are the most notorious examples. Need I say more? If we could, the rest of the US would vote to give Kalifornia back to Mexico because it is becoming just another third world vacation destination.
Oh yes just one more thing. Senator Feinstein in relation to her Federal Assault Weapon Ban:
“I agree with you. I wouldn’t bring it up now,” she replied.
Feinstein said she’s going to hold off, for now, but vowed she would eventually push the issue. “I’ll pick the time and the place, no question about that,”
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/sen-feinstein-assault-weapons-ban-i-wouldnt

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 10:23 pm

Thanks for blaming “EVERYONE” who lives in Cali. I and many I am capable of educating consistently vote or make our voices heard against every Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi etc. liberal leaning social engineering bill, prop. or bond.

You would be well served to make your comments someplace else. Preferrably not in a reply to my thoughtful and considerate post. You are preaching to the choir, Sir.

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darkwater February 20, 2012 at 10:42 pm

By your logic, lumping together everyone in one state as being responsible for its elected politicians, then it is just as much your fault that Obama got elected…between him and Holder trying to blame all illegal gun sales to Mexican drug cartels on US citizens and putting more gun controls in place, how’s that working out for you? CA, AZ, NM and TX with new big-brother long-gun sales reporting…your state is next, if not already included! Live in Ohio? That state is one of the biggest hubs for the Mexican drug cartels. No state is immune…we either work together, or die together…your choice.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 10:51 pm

Thanks! ^^^^ you get it Darkwater.. Do you have a brother named Black…oh nevermind/ ;]

The Intelligent Shade Of Blue April 22, 2013 at 11:03 pm

I don’t think it’s fair to boycott ammunition and firearms sales to me just because I share this state with tens of millions of drooling, vapid, socialist gits. I do not deserve to pay the price for the mistakes of my fellow former, especially when I continue to fight on the losing side of this war of attrition we have going on here. Keeping guns out of California will only hasten its demise, and give the federal government a blueprint for disarming folks in every other state as well. Read the Rio Conference publication of the UN (1992), particularly where the UN admits to their reasoning behind pushing for the abolition of legal gun ownership.

Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile. As for me, I will not budge even that first inch.

Sorry to hear you don’t feel the same way.

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Cosmoline February 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm

I was born and raised in this here state of Kali, I have seen the creeping Marxism and slithering communistic agendas of both the state legislature and the local governing bodies politik ravage the freedoms of her citizens for over the past twenty years. Joined the NRA, Voted consistently Conservative, fought for freedom…it is a war of attrition. The Communists have already won.The only solution, Leave California, it is a doomed state from every perspective, fiscally it is ruined and unrecoverable, the job market is swimming in the latrine, and the the hope for better times and a better future…well, there is No Hope. Goodbye California, you are cutting off your own people through oppressive over regulation on both Business Industry and on your citizens rights to live freely as Americans.
I have got to find someplace where the real America is still alive, because it is sure dead here in Kali.

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John February 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm

That is exactly what many need to realize instead of whining about why dealers choose not to deal with the hassle of sending firearms your way. California really is doomed. If anything, the firearms laws will only get worse. I have a long time friend who moved out there 3 years ago and he has met many people. Over time, a few of those people that he has met trusted him enough to let him in on a little secret….they are illegal. Even he, someone who could care less about guns, is extremely upset by this. The job market is flooded there with every leftist in the world trying to move there because they want to be on TV.

If the gun owners moved out, California will undoubtedly lose all of its producers. The author of this article said, bring more guns into California to fight back. I think many have the hopes that if they send LESS guns, the gun owners will leave and the state will lose a large part of their earners. Rise up California….and leave : )

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centermass February 20, 2012 at 2:02 pm

I’ve been a law enforcement officer in The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia for over 40 yrs and when a gun dealer won’t ship a gun to my gun dealer just because of my zip code it really ticks me off. But not nearly as bad as the lawmakers of this state. Statewide and nationwide they are an embarrassment and make most of us ashamed to say we are Californians. If I were them I wouldn’t want the citizenry to be allowed to own weapons either.
Give us a break folks we are not all looney liberals.

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GatorFL February 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm

While I do not agree with the NRA on every issue (they should not have supported the 1986 NFA ban on ownership of post 1986 automatic weapons, and I do not agree with their support for permitless ‘constituional carry’ – I believe it’s perfectly reasonable to require some level of proficiency training to carry a deadly weapon in public, where the risk of possible unintended collateral damage is much greater than in one’s own home), they are the largest, loudest and most effective voice for gun owner’s rights in the nation. Overall, their influence and firearms freedom advocacy are very positive forces and I encourage every gun owner to join their ranks. As a FFL in FL, I am happy to sell to CA as it’s a huge market and not particulary burdensome to navigate. I would certainly like to see more efforts made to liberalize gun ownership there and a strong NRA lobby is a good way to start.

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southpawdj February 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm

Wait a minute everybody- there’s always hope! Things can change within California but not without a turning point to spur it on. Remember this is the state that gave us Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon!!!

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John February 20, 2012 at 2:26 pm

So you chastised dealers for practicing their right to refuse sale to whoever they want? I hate California and all of its “ideals”. I feel sorry for you folks over there, I really do. But I am tired of the whining. I purposely avoid California like the plague and if living there impacts your lifestyle so much, why do you stay? I know packing up and moving is no easy task and jobs are hard to find. However, if these issues are such a big deal, you need to decide what is more important to you. I am not a dealer but I see exactly why they don’t ship there. It’s not their fault that you live in the worst state of the nation; not just because of the gun laws, either.

There is too much red tape to tip toe around in that state as far as firearms sales go and personally, I would not care to read about your laws. There are 49 other states who want firearms (with New Jersey and NY getting close to Cali standards). Putting your FFL at risk because you sold a firearm to someone who later converted it to something they thought was legal is not a smart business move.

Face it, your state sucks and it is not any one’s fault that you live there. It is not the firearm community’s job to cater to your wants. Join the real America or stay in la la land, it’s your choice……Time to go load some 30 round mags for my next range trip : )

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:03 pm

John! Dude! You are not so narrow minded to think many of us stay here because we want to or have choice, do you?

Let’s say you have children and, sadly, your spouse dies..or divorce for that matter. Now it would be great to leave except the Grandparents, Cousins and other family ties are in Cali. Should the Family Support Structure for your children be ignored to make a statement by leaving the state? Family should be first! I hope you agree. It is the core of humanity. Anyway, I wish I could just load and leave. (pun intended) I would be in Texas in two minutes if the family would come too.

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Doug February 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm

Oh Boo Hoo. Then stay there and quit bitching!
My wife and I moved out of Ca. after seeing it’s decline for 46 years..We to have family there that did not move with us and to tell you the truth, I hate even coming back for short visits now…You can keep your Marxist land…but please don’t expect dealers to risk thier livleyhoods to ship guns to you. There is no viable excuse you can tell us that you could not vote with your feet….And MOVE to a state that is in America!

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Chinner08 February 20, 2012 at 2:30 pm

To all those who have left the the People’s Republic because of the reasons I’ve seen noted here, I have one word for you: COWARDICE.

If the Founding Fathers acted this way, we’d be living in Western England right now because they would have simply run away instead of standing up for their rights.

It’s probably better that we move on in this fight without you.

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Doug February 23, 2012 at 8:19 pm

Oh Pleeeese!

The war was won by the Marxist creeps that live next door to you…You just don’t know it yet!

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TheShooter February 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm

Thanks for the article Brian. As a lifelong California resident, it hurts to see my State be in such a terrible condition, but you’re exactly right – the more guns in California the better!

It’s onerous and difficult sometimes, but places that simply refuse to sell to California because of principle are simply being ignorant and are losing sales. As a business owner myself, I don’t like this State. It is very anti-business, but I also find it sort of cocky for an out of state business to just willingly lose sales on principle alone.

What-ev…

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texasdealer February 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm

I don’t sell or do any business with California, you’ve voted away your rights and would take mine if allowed. Since the primary focus of all things California seems to be the homosexuals, maybe you could get them interested in guns. The legislature would melt down the Golden Gate bridge to get them anything they want.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:08 pm

lets see….Steers and …. oh nevermind. You will see exactly what you just claimed will happen if you DON’T start supporting California enthusiasts. Seriously, it’s not all fruits and nuts here. Just the big cities. Just kidding about Steers. I like ‘em. Especially barbequed with a TexMex rub!

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Frank February 23, 2012 at 2:30 am

Texas dealer… one of the most vocal, pro-gun, grassroots organizations out here is the Pink Pistols. Gays who own and enjoy the shooting sports. I am a straight, happily married man and I welcome the Pink Pistols to our side of the table on this question. I welcome anyone, of any race, color, creed or persuasion to our side of the table. The more on our side, the sooner we will win.

What many of you in “free America” don’t seem to get is that gun rights are civil rights, equal to us all, and that those rights can be taken away from you. All that needs to happen is for the political winds to change in your state and you’d probably be surprised just how soon it could happen to you.

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Flyoverstate February 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm

“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” If your state’s gun laws are so easily navigable and you have resigned yourself to their restrictions, why is it so despicable to you that out of state sellers don’t want to deal with these laws? Buy from in-state sellers! Apparently the easy money you claim your residents are willing to spend is not worth the headache for out of state dealers. Learn to live with it. I live in a “flyover state” so am able to buy unrestricted ammo, locally or through the internet. Can have C&R weapons delivered to my house. Don’t have to show ID for bullets. Don’t have to wait X days to pick up a firearm. Don’t have to buy “….(fill in the liberal state) compliant” firearms. Etc. When I bought my wife a nice SW (thank you Bill Clinton) model 60, it had an integral lock on it. Why do I need a lock on a gun I keep in a safe? While I empathize with your plight, it’s certainly not my job to fix your legislature or your citizenry. If your state had its way, I would be in the same boat as you—and with your number of Electoral College votes, I cringe every election. Two weeks ago when I was cleaning my Garand, I was reminded of the idiocy Kalifornia has spawned: the Delrin muzzle protector I use came with a warning label that goes (almost verbatim) like this—”WARNING-This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause Cancer.” It’s a piece of solid black plastic about the size of a wine cork with a brass sleeve through the middle of it. I found the same warning on a plastic leaf rake I bought a decade ago. If you think the beauty of your state outweighs the insanity that your legislature imposes, stay there and enjoy. Don’t scold those who want nothing to do with your madness. Oh, and way to go, Ronnie Barrett.

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Robert February 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm

Hawaii, believe it or not, is more tolerant of guns than Calif. I just built a LR-308 with 20 rd magazines, flash suppressor, and all the horrible assault features that make liberals in Calif. urinate down their legs. A visit to the Koko Head range on a weekend looks like the firing line at Camp Pendleton with all the AR types.

There are dumb things here, like 10 rd magazine limit for rifles that may have a pistol variant, AR/AK, and 10 rd limit for handguns. Regardless, the rifle 10 rd limit for AR/AK is widely ignored, 30 rd mags are everywhere and no one cares. M1A, LR-308, and FAL don’t matter, no pistol variant.

CCW is non-existant, but a movement is ongoing to sue to change that.

I sold most of my collection before moving here form Calif, and now regret doing so.

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Paul February 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm

Hi People
cal. is losing a lot of money. I have talked to people who will not hunt in cal. As stated some gun dealers
will not do busnnss with ca. This will continue untill you kick out these perpetuate thes laws.

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Dan February 20, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Hey all, you think Cali. is bad come to New York. Many dealeras wont ship here now and we have a bunch of new laws being pushed this year. They want to ban everything including jobs in the great state of New York. And they tell us it all for are own good. Our states gun model is the UK, and then some.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:09 pm

I hope I never get a job offer there! Good luck I feel your pain!

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Bill February 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm

The answer to all this is very simple. Now that the Obama Administration has indebted our country to China beyond our ability to pay them back. Give California to China and we can start over again. The Socialist Liberals out there should be in favor of this kind of a move. In 1776 we rose up to free ourselves from a government that is doing the same exact thing ours is now. There are only a handful of States that don’t respect the rights of their citizens. CA is the worst, closely followed by NY, NJ, MA and IL. They are all “Blue” states. We have met the enemy and he is us. Don’t forget to vote in November and any time there is an opportunity to take our country back from the Liberals.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:10 pm

Yep!

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Bruce February 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm

Greetings. I live in Eastern Madera county just a few miles from Yosemite National Park. My wife and I both have CCWs and carry daily and I have a C&R FFL. Gun ownership in the rural areas is very high. If you do a websearch on gun ownership you will find there are between 7 and 8 million legal gun owners in Calif. and most own more than one gun. I am a retired engineer and marketing exec. The company I worked for did a lot of business with the US government and the rules and regs were always a pain to deal with but we did it because it was a big market with money to be made. Anyone who ignores Calif. is cutting off their own nose and giving the business to someone who is focued on the bottom line. Secondly, and mabye more importanly, if you choose not to sell guns to Calif. residents then the anti-gun liberals really have won.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:14 pm

Representing!
Howcome know one seems to get it? It’s always a rant against us instead of support for us. I can’t remember the last vote where I was on the winning side. Determined to win sometime soon.
East Madera County is a beautiful place…lucky you!

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Len February 20, 2012 at 6:54 pm

“Cute”?! “Kalifornia”? No, I’m calling it as it is: “Kommifornia”.

“The 2nd Amendment Lives in California” – not according to this article/author. Those “high capacity magazines” are actually “FULL CAPACITY” mags. And the ones are allowed in Kommifornia are “castrated capacity”.

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gw February 20, 2012 at 6:54 pm

(assault weapon) liberal speak

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dave February 20, 2012 at 7:05 pm

Simple solutions regarding firearms ownership for Kalifornians but not for the faint of heart or cowardly,

Understand basic principles of freedom such as USSC rulings that laws, statutes being the lowest form of law, that violate the United States Constitution are NOT law, NEVER were law, and DON”T have the legitimate authority of law and can be disregarded. It doesn’t necessitate a black robe to understand the 2nd amendment and know that gun law “infringe” upon the right to keep and bear arms. In order to apply this concept of nullification of obviously unconstitutional law would require having the American spirit of freedom, courage, and “rule of law” not “rule of men”.

Sadly most Americans don’t have courage and simply accept obvious BS laws as legitimate so they don’t have to address being cowards.

Another solution to help Kalifornians is for them to move to another state, but they will still have to deal with the ideals above as all states violate the 2nd amendment.

The obvious solution to this gun rights issue nationwide is to have some balls and own, make, “acquire” whatever gun you think you need and ignore obvious BS laws. When an unlawful arrest may occur it would be an assault like any other and can be resisted like any other assault, up to and including lethal force if necessary, and then use your 2nd amendment RIGHT to defend yourself. This is common sense and the opinion of the USSC as well regarding unlawful arrests!

This is how I live my life. Maybe I am one of the 3% who stand for liberty like the 3% founders but it is your choice to join us or not.

Thank you.

I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery. Thomas Jefferson.

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Uncle Charley February 20, 2012 at 9:17 pm

The article doesn’t mention another way around the handgun roster. Dealers can not legally sell you a non-rostered gun from their inventory. But private party transfers are exempt. So if you want, say, a Colt Python, you can legally buy one if you can find a private owner to sell you his. Calguns.net is a great place to look for one. But the owner must be a CA resident and the gun must already be in CA. I lived in San Diego for 16 years and saw all the smaller gun shops go under. No new ones are opening, because of the legal and buisness climate there is so hostile. I’m in AZ now. The irony is that you can’t buy a high quality gun like a Python or a Trooper, but you can sitll buy a pot metal POS like a Lorcin brand new. Liberals….

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Sixgun February 21, 2012 at 12:28 am

I have all of the snake guns and two 4in troopers. Are you looking? I may consider letting a MKlll go. Blue Never fired plus has two sets of grips wood and the Colt pearl

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Sixgun February 20, 2012 at 9:22 pm

I dont care about California, or for that matter HI, IL, NY or DC, They elected the government, they can live with it. In fact I am all for an out right ban on selling anything to these places, and I refuse to buy CA wines. Maybe if one or two gun mags actualy put a front cover story about “travel advisories” or “recomended travel bans” to these states.. for permit holders, they will get mad about the lost tourist dollar and change their government. Maybe not. Like I said I dont care, They got what they wanted, and they can live…or die..with it.

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darkwater February 20, 2012 at 10:51 pm

So you wanted Obama? Same logic…live with it.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:19 pm

Ha HA! you may have something there, Just missing a tweak or two Read my logic above for a clarification.
Did you support the 2A statement we all made with Starbucks last week? Anti Boycott against the Anti boycott. :p

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Dick Guzinya February 20, 2012 at 9:35 pm

I had a near pristine 1980′s Colt Python that I listed on a firearms auction site and got a very acceptable bid from a buyer who lived in CA. He was more than anxious to complete the deal until I visited the CA DOJ site and found out that a FOUR INCH BARREL PYTHON IS NOT APPROVED AS IT IS CONSIDERED A “CONCEALABLE WEAPON”

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Dick Guzinya February 20, 2012 at 10:37 pm

Sorry, site kicked me out before I was finished. A 6″ barrel would have been perfectly acceptable. I ended up selling it to another Buyer in a more gun friendly state for $300 less. CA laws have no rhyme or reason. I ship through an FFL and he will not jump through the hoops necessary to be able to ship to CA. I don’t blame him. Their “drop test” for guns is garbage too. They go out of their way to make the whole process more effort than it’s worth. And for the record, CA is not the only state I restrict; New Jersey, New York, Illionois (esp Chicago) make it difficult to sell firearms to if you are not intimately familiar with their laws.

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livefire February 20, 2012 at 11:22 pm

Couldn’t you allow us to help? Charging a bit more for “The Cali Hassle” would be better than just saying forget it. Wouldn’t it. Give the antis canniption fits.

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Uncle Charley February 20, 2012 at 10:03 pm

Dick, none of Colt’s revolvers are on the roster. Colt isn’t about to spend the money keeping them listed when they are no longer in production just to please the CA DOJ (it’s not cheap). A few manufacturers do this for their older models, but not many. Like I said, the irony is that this “safe handgun law” was meant to ban pot metal guns like the Lorcin and Davis. But they where able to get certified anyway. So the law abiding gun owner get punished while the creep who needs a throw away gun to stick up liquer stores still can get his.

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Reprobate Hippy February 20, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Howdy folks-
The article that fired this here discussion off had its merits and its shortcomings.
Some one said once, a long time ago, that people get the kind of government they deserve.
It would seem that California has a problem. That problem may be the small voice of the rural voters, and the overbearing weight of the vote in certain un-named municipalities in the state. Or it may be something else entirely. Most aspects of their ‘problem’ have been weighed fairly thoroughly by different authors during this discussion. A very interesting debate, guys.
There is some truth to the thought that we can stand together, or we can die alone. Truth can also be found in the concept that the State of California may have placed itself in a position beyond redemption.
The options for the residents of that once great state are are somewhat limited, but their actions must follow their words. In the simplest terms, they still have three choices.
1-Abandon the state, move to ‘Free America’ or elsewhere. Leave your California mind behind.
2-Change the standing government, the laws that offend, by whatever means is appropriate. Take responsibility.
3-Decide to tolerate the intolerable. No guts, no glory, but who needs glory anyhow?
Someone has to do what needs to be done. The rest of the country won’t be able to do it for the poor Californians. If people of that State choose to continue its soft slavery, then who am I to say they are wrong? It may be wrong for me, but I aint them.
Although the NRA is an imperfect tool, it is better than the alternatives in most things. There are State Rifle Associations in all of the 50. They may be more responsive to the local needs and demands than the NRA can be. Get active.
There is also an underlying sense of fear that taking action, joining the club, or speaking out, may place one in jeopardy by making a person visible on the radar. Falling afoul of the powers is one way to awaken from apathy, although not a recommended method.
I have lived there, and worked there, and paid taxes there. I found that I could not tolerate living on the coast, the people were bound up in such a tiny world. Moving inland still didn’t cut the interference enough. I left. I still have some family there, but the smartest ones have left for America.
California is like boiling a frog. Raise the temperature slowly and it doesn’t even notice. Frog death is not a price I choose to pay. I will not cross the Ca. state line, I will not do business there. I will not see my family there. They are (still) free to leave Ca. to visit me, but I will not go there.
But then again, I refuse to put up with TSA groping and crap, so I don’t fly in America any more. Has anyone noticed that airport security is less intrusive and demeaning in most countries that allow travel?

IF the Californians staged the sort of rebellion that the tree huggers loved in the Arab Spring, what would be the national response? The Federal response? The Media response? The local reaction? One has to wonder.

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darkwater February 20, 2012 at 11:06 pm

You raise very good points, and there ARE several groups working here in CA (NRA, SAF, CRPA, Calguns) that are leading the charge against the gun-control laws of this state. Because we are outnumbered in the legislature, and in the general populace, we can only accomplish this in the courts, riding on the coat-tails of the Heller and MacDonald victories in the Supreme Court. We were successful at defeating AB 962 in court, which would have killed most online ammunition orders to CA residents. We have gotten several county sheriffs to change their stance/procedures on issuing CCW permits. We defeated the outright ban of handguns in SF. We currently have cases to make the safe handgun roster go away, to steer CA to a “shall issue” policy for CCW permits, and others. Check out Calguns.net for more info…the fight is far from over!

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CR February 20, 2012 at 11:10 pm

A better strategy is to target the gun control advocates individually. Find out who in your neighborhood may be a gun control advocate, find out where they work, and then call a boycott on the business until the gun control advocate is fired. Repeat this step at the next job they get. Do all you can with in the limits of the law to make their life a living hell. Give them real problems in life, again, stay within the limits of the law. Boycott businesses that give to gun control advocacy groups. Support businesses like Starbucks for standing up to the Brady Campaign. We have to be active in defending our rights and sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

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bob February 21, 2012 at 7:47 am

good article hasnt changed my mind though we still wont ship to kalifornia sorry

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Bill February 21, 2012 at 9:02 am

In Florida we have a State law stating to the effect NO local or county government may make a law regarding firearms. Any city or county doing so will be fined and the individual politicians who vote for the law will also be fined to the tune of $5,000. What is needed is a National law along these lines. That way there would be no confusion from state to state and our 2nd ammendment rights would be protected. We have a national election comming up. It would be great if one of the Conservatives would grow a set and suggest such a thing. This is America. We can’t rise up and revolt like we did in 1776 because we value our country too much and with today’s technology it would be impossible. Not only that, I can’t see any American taking up arms against another American. A foreign government? YES in a heartbeat, but our military and police are our people and we support them both 100%. It’s the Legislative branches of our government that are destroying our country on a daily basis. Why should illegal aliens be legal and legal firearms be declared illegal? California needs America more than America needs California. The State is big enough, let them seceed or sell the place to China if they do not want to live like the rest of us. As for guns. There are plenty of other buyers out there in the real America. Clean up your own house then come join the rest of America.

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Administrator February 21, 2012 at 9:21 am

Except for the 5 day waiting period in dade and broward that violates this law and nobody cares because nobody has paid them to care yet.

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Ed February 21, 2012 at 11:36 am

Great article! Anything to shed light on the subject is good — we here in CA need all the help we can get. Thankfully, the CalGuns Foundation is doing an epic job of working within the legal system to correct the many legislative wrongs that were perpetrated in the Bad Old Days.

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larry b February 21, 2012 at 3:09 pm

I am pleased to see that there are other “liberals” out there who own guns. I must admit I get a touch annoyed at the constant generalization of the term “liberal”. I have found that this term is frequently misunderstood and mis-used. I am an adamant outdoorsman who enjoys many of the things that so called “conservatives” value. I also am a black belt in karate and own several Japanese weapons, plus I am planning on getting into archery. I do not live in California so I have not had to put up with some of their restrictive laws (thank goodness). However, I have a friend (also liberal) who lives down there and we have frequently gone out and “shot it up” royally. Perhaps a bit more understanding from various points of view might actually cause anti-gun people to realize that not all gun owners are crazy whackos as well as from the other point of view, not all liberals are flower carrying doves.

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larry b February 21, 2012 at 3:17 pm

what moderation? My name and email address is there.

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larry b February 21, 2012 at 3:20 pm

I’ll try again.
larry b February 21, 2012 at 3:09 pm

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I am pleased to see that there are other “liberals” out there who own guns. I must admit I get a touch annoyed at the constant generalization of the term “liberal”. I have found that this term is frequently misunderstood and mis-used. I am an adamant outdoorsman who enjoys many of the things that so called “conservatives” value. I also am a black belt in karate and own several Japanese weapons, plus I am planning on getting into archery. I do not live in California so I have not had to put up with some of their restrictive laws (thank goodness). However, I have a friend (also liberal) who lives down there and we have frequently gone out and “shot it up” royally. Perhaps a bit more understanding from various points of view might actually cause anti-gun people to realize that not all gun owners are crazy whackos as well as from the other point of view, not all liberals are flower carrying doves

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JoRaTo February 21, 2012 at 9:30 pm

I live in Virginia and we have just repealed the “1 handgun a month” law that was enacted to stop the 60% Virginia firearms that were linked to murders in the Northeast. I am a solid gun owner/user and think this is pure stupidity. The criminals are just going to use their girlfriends and others who want to make a buck to start buying like they used to. The sad thing is those guns will go to states that don’t have a policy for concealed carry like we do in Virginia. At least in Virginia we can carry to confront the threat. In the states those weapons are going to, they don’t have that option on a wide basis. So I agree we should make all states a level “playing field”. Just as we should make all drug laws the same.
I’m glad Virginia gives me the option to carry, but I don’t agree with sending guns to states that don’t have the same policies. While I’m at it, Bloomberg is a corporate storm trooper. I’m sure he would like Israel to disarm to solve the middle east problem also, you think?

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Sixgun February 22, 2012 at 3:11 pm

California dictates so much to the rest of the country, ie vehical emissions, ect ect. Anytime I can not do something for CA the better. Obviously the residents of CA cant change their own gun laws, so maybe we can help them from outside the state, by bans and boycotts. Course it would help if S&W and others stop selling to CA govt agencies like Barrett. At a minimum any magazine over 10 rounds should not be allowed at CA govt purchases either.
And if the residents of CA want guns they cant have, or want to CCW..Maybe they should move? Nobody is forcing anyone to live there.

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Heyjerr February 22, 2012 at 3:13 pm

I applaud Gunsamerica for this article. It’s a great start at explaining the predicament. Maybe in the future they could start a series covering some of the issues people would have to call in to CA DOJ for help with. Many people won’t do the legwork but just might read it if it’s served on a platter as nicely as this article was. Kudos.

Now, on to the commenters.

SDDutch’s statement “I am a gun owner and I am not a member of the NRA for one very specific reason. The NRA does not support all gun owners.” typifies what is wrong with the gun community. “If they don’t support my pet peeve then they are not deserving of my support (even though they’ve done so much already to ensure the rights I currently enjoy).” Millions of gunowners throughout the US, with the majority apparently in so-called “free” states, are keeping their money to themselves because they think they don’t have a dog in this fight. So you’ll only support them if they support you first. Typical. Too bad you can’t see beyond your own nose. That same kind of thinking is what divided gunowners over in the UK (oh, they don’t want to ban MY gun….well then I won’t get in the way) and look what that lead to (a foot in the door followed by a total ban).

We here in California who are oppressed by the liberal majority are asking the rest of the country to stop being so selfish and give a little support. Yes, it may involve more paperwork but the more who take on this challenge the better. Maybe the DOJ will tire from the paperwork alone. Like DCW, I can at least understand when someone says they won’t sell to us because it’s inconvenient or when they quote having too many bad experiences, like Bert (it is your business after all), but what I don’t understand is the utter ignorance and contempt some people here are showing for those of us who are victimized by these laws.

Drop the “K” from “Kalifornia, it’s ignorant and quit being funny about 5 minutes after the first million people used it. All it does is make the rulemakers feel confident that they won’t have to worry about being flanked by supporters from outside of the state.

Californians are fighting the hard fight that many of you enjoy no longer having to fight. Now you’re resting on your butts and pointing out how bad we have it here in CA (only in regards to politics in the metro areas, the weather and environment are still awesome and you’re just jealous). We only have so many conservatives in this state to affect change, but we’re simply outnumbered. I’m a native conservative independent Californian and a veteran. I have NEVER shirked my responsibilities by not voting. I know I sure as hell didn’t vote for these laws so don’t sit there with a pompous (unearned) grin and tell me I deserve what I got. Yeah, I’m talking to you Shootstright.

Gatorpaw is right. If more of you joined the NRA they could start fighting more to get rid of the stupid laws throughout the nation, including here in CA, and then we could be free to support you by buying firearms that have not been available here for years. As DCW pointed out, we’ve got a lot of pent up demand and money to spend, and those who work with us are reaping the benefits without much competition. Defeatist comments like those from Rich, John, or Hernadez (why don’t you just move?) show me just how much conviction many of you have to stand on (you’re just as bad, if not worse, than the Antis). Stand together with your fellow 2A brothers and sisters and it will eventually help you, and not just financially. Or you can continue going about your lives being lazy, selfish, and judgmental…all the while thinking that what happens here couldn’t ever happen to you. Go on, get going back to your couches…I don’t want someone on my side who will take the easy path without putting up a fight anyway.

Me, I’m gonna stick around and be a sheepdog (thanks Ernie) keeping the wolves away. Yeah, it’s hard work but it’s worth it.

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DEaton66 February 29, 2012 at 12:55 am

I’m with you 100%. United we stand, divided we fall. We are all citizens of the UNITED States.

When 2A proponents fight and squabble with each other, it’s like the GOP Primary fight, we are all stepping on each other and making it easier for our opponents to divide and conquer.

Think about it, folks.

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singleshotman February 23, 2012 at 11:19 am

Because of a well known company i now live in Texas.I loved CA,did not want to move to Texas.My company gave me an offer to move or be laid off.In this ecomeny? I now have a Texas DL, i got it yesterday.No more “no sales to CA”, no more waiting periods, no more “safe handguns”.Now i am only limited by how much money i got in the bank, even through the company paid for my move, it still cost a lot to buy a new house and furnish it.I am still moving in to my new house. I think the weather sucks here, today it’s 75 degrees, last week it was 26, that was the low here.I still miss CA, even if i am much more free here .P>S> I can now get a C & R pistol shipped to my new house, no waiting, no FFL.YAHOO

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Matt Luckey February 24, 2012 at 6:55 am

I’m in the same boat. My wife got a promotion and I didn’t want to leave San Diego. The weather here is insane but the first time I walked into a gun store, I felt like I was back in time ( 1988 ). I think it sucks that all my little brother talks about now when we’re on the phone is airsoft guns! I purchased AKs because of the Clinton gun ban (89), and the first week I went out and bought every Tapco accessory I could put on it. I love the fact that you can get supressors here and that my neighbors ( and I mean all of them ) carry. GUN LAWS DON’T MAKE YOUR STATE SAFE, THEY RUIN INDUSTRY.

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easy February 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm

For those that think Califonians should just jump right up and change out the politicians, answer these questions:

When was the last time you did just that in your state?
How many of you can just pull up stakes and move?
Or just get another job in some other more gun friendly state?
Ever tried to sell a house in this current economy?
How many of you enjoy the benefits from what the union or collective bargaining unit fought for, but you aren’t a member of?

Don’t lie just because it’s the internet. Be honest with yourself.

As many of you would rather not admit, we in CA are fighting the future of your 2A rights! I have educated more than a couple of out-of-CA FFLs on just how simple it is to deal with the CA DOJ.

Don’t get me wrong I hate what this state has become, but it’s my home and I will stay and fight so you don’t have to!

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11cAirborne February 27, 2012 at 12:40 pm

All,
Awesome discussion! It would be GREATLY appreciated and BENEFICIAL if we stopped calling firearms “weapons” please see the REAL definition of a weapon:
The free dictionary dot com:
A comprehensive term for all instruments of offensive or defensive combat

Dictionary dot com: weap•on
   [wep-uhn] noun
1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.

I am a California resident and have been for most of my life and DESPISE Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi and their ILK! I have voted against EVERY gun control initiative that I’ve been aware of. Sneaky BA$TARD$ they are will propose a law for say more inner city parks, or as they say here green belts but at the bottom of the bill in TEENY WEANNIE letters is some ridicules anti “FIREARM” law so we must stay vigilant!

Concerning the term WEAPON this only gives the anti’s more ammo and paints a picture of Rambo “tearin it up” with his dual wielding M-60’s. I just can’t see my 10/22 Ruger or Beretta over-n-under being used as weapons; while they have the ability to be used as such they are not. Just ask yourselves how many of your firearms have been used for offensive or defensive COMBAT???

While in the US Army I carried an M-203 and a 1911, those I considered weapons, in the civilian world most of us use our firearms for hunting, punching paper and protecting our RIGHT to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness…

Under definition a WEAPON could be a baseball bat or “God forbid” the all fearing tennis racket, especially the black ones! Here in California we have lost so much ground and the only way to get it back is the same way we lost it, one little slice at a time!

We can present ourselves intelligently and start by using the term FIREARMS, an all encompassing term for what they really are, inanimate tools. In closing, I would like to thank the dealers that do support us! My last three purchases have been from out of state vendors! One was a bolt action rifle; one was a complete AR-15 the other a stripped AR lower so I could build my own AR FIREARM for coyote hunting! We must stick together as Americans, that is what separates us from the rest of the world…

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:43 am

well stated…but the Pelozzi’s, Browns, Boxers, Feinsteins and all there rest are pandering to a political base that just has their hand out for free stuff….I’m afraid that we will have to withdraw to the North and East and defend our positions there…I hear some big talk from Arizona (you got your own problems there), New Mexico and Texas….all of those border states are next! Particularly, it the corrupt Mexican government doesn’t get control of that country and end the anarchy soon. Sad, very very SAD

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Brian Reno February 28, 2012 at 3:19 pm

Yeah… See, this isn’t about business, or money ultimately. It’s about doing time in a California PRISON. Minor bookkeeping errors and honest mistakes regarding California gun laws have prison time attached. That makes it not worth it to sell firearms to Cali residents.

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Bob Etzler March 1, 2012 at 9:03 am

Thanks for this article. Being a born and raised “California” liberal does not make me narrow minded nor want to cut off my nose to spite my face when it comes to gun ownership.
I support all our freedoms as listed on the Bill of Rights. I’m an avid shooter and can best most if not all
conservative shooters at the range I attend. :^)
I irks me as much if not more than you,my conservative friends, when I read about a liberal politician wanting to “protect” me by adding another barrier to my right to bare arms.
Keep those guns coming to California, darn I want one of those Ruger Gunsite Scouts.
BTW many of us Liberals served our country proudly, me a Viet Vet.

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mdog March 5, 2012 at 12:35 am

well thanks for your service in Nam sir! But if you are voting LIB in the once great state of Calif you have become part of the problem — and the gun issue is complete aside from what is killing California….third highest state income tax in the country….illegals running amuck and politicians pandering to them for a vote…free stuff for everyone…you got medical insurance…they don’t!! go to your local hospital E.R. tonight and see how many english speaking “patients” are there…packed with illegals using the E.R. as their primary care facility because they “can’t” be turned away – even without insurance..which means your medical insurance premiums go up and an tylenol cost $50 in a hospital…the DREAM act = free college….driving unlicensed and uninsured crashing their rides which drives up the cost of your UNinsured motorist coverage..it’s almost all over for Calif…just a few more years and it’s done

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Sixgun March 5, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Shootstright March 8, 2012 at 1:32 am


For years education was for learning , what happened . Now a more fitting way of putting it is :

Intelligence is the ability to get thought life without an education and an education is the ability to get thought life without intelligence ( A Liberal ) .

If you are a democRAT liberal progressive communist marxists nit-wit you should not be aloud to own guns . You vote for and with the very people that cause the problems .

I have seen this country going down hill for more than sixty + years . I have watched the lefty nit-wits distroy every thing good and decent about the US of A . Up until 1968 We The People could buy a firearm and have it shipped to our house . When I was 15 I walked into a gun shop and pickup a semi-auto pistol , 500 rds of ammo and a holster to carry it in . All I needed was money . Every kid I know had a shotgun and at lest one 22 rifle . We could work if we wanted to . Just look around now and see if your kids are able and responsible . Some are but not many . My kids say democRATS are for the little guy . BS they are for keeping the little guy just that , little and a vote .

It’s time for We The People to smarten up get your heads out of your backsides and see the light . Say a prayer , salute the flag and grow some backbone and get over being just another democRAT ass wipe .

I sure would hate to be a sheep in CA .

Yes Hey jerr , I do my part in my state , I go to the capital and stand up when these gun control laws come up .

The NRA is what it is and without it we would be disarmed by now . If every gun owner was a member do you think we would be having this conversation right now ? I don’t think so .

I can work around the laws in other states but I will not do CA paper work . If you can put an end to the CA DOJ’s paper work I to will sell to We The People of CA.

———————————————————————
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.

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Shootstright March 8, 2012 at 10:48 am

Coming to America, if we citizens don’t stand together. May God be with us. Read on.

“A Nation of Sheep will beget a Government of Wolves.” – Edward R. Murrow

You’re sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.
With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.
In the darkness, you make out two shadows. One holds something that looks like a crowbar. When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.
The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.
As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you’re in trouble.
In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless..
Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.
When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably
plea the case down to manslaughter.
“What kind of sentence will I get?” you ask.
“Only ten-to-twelve years, “he replies, as if that’s nothing.
“Behave yourself, and you’ll be out in seven.”
The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper.
Somehow, you’re portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot
are represented as choirboys.
Their friends and relatives can’t find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both “victims” have been arrested numerous times.
But the next day’s headline says it all: “Lovable Rogue Son Didn’t Deserve to Die.”
The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters.
As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media.
The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.
Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he’ll probably win.
The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you’ve been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects.
After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.
A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven’t been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted .
When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you.
Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict you of all charges. The judge sentences you to life in prison.

This case really happened!

On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term… How did it become a crime to defend one’s own life in the once great British Empire ?

It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.
This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.
The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.
Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns. Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of “gun control”, demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.
For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.
During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying,
“We cannot have people take the law into their own hands.” All of Martin’s neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn’t were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn’t comply. Police later bragged that they’d taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?

WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

“…It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds..”
–Samuel Adams

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Larry March 8, 2012 at 5:34 pm

thanks for your blog,,but we need to deal with correcting the laws, for fairness and justice for ALL

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Sixgun March 11, 2012 at 12:38 am

Okay, so let me put this to bed once and for all.
Does the government lie to us?
Does the government have your best interest in mind, or it’s own?
Is the government corrupt?

So why in the hell would anybody do what they say? If you want a weapon, go get one. Who cares a rats ass what they say.

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The MaD HaCkER March 16, 2012 at 2:21 pm

Well a 5 day waiting period did save one life. The guy who beat his wife to death when she was waiting to receive the gun is alive and well. (And still on the loose at last report.)

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Lyle March 25, 2012 at 6:12 pm

Maybe the best vote is to vote with your dollars. Buy not spending money in California, The liberals want to take our rights away but if californians, can not vote them out they can move to a state where you still have your constitutional rights, or at least most of them.

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Mike April 3, 2012 at 6:36 pm

I live in California. First, it’s not the dealers that are shrinking the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale in California, it’s the manufacturers (once you get past it being the politicians and the idiots who vote for them of course). And I don’t blame the manufacturers. When the Auto Industry tests a car for safety, they test a model and that is it. They don’t need to test every color and configuration or all possible combinations to qualify for approved sale. For instance, if a firearm manufacturer has one model, and that model comes in 4 styles (e.g. blued, parkerized, stainless, bitone) and also comes with either fiber or tritium sights and, lastly, if the grips come in 5 styles (cocobolo, black plastic, pink plastic, pearl, hard rubber) the number of guns they must get tested to offer all of the combinations in California is 390,625. Do you really believe they can sell enough to recover the cost of testing that many guns to destruction? You may argue that they can supply just a few of those combinations, but they’ve tried that. They’ve likely found that consumers are reluctant to part with as much as 1/3 of their monthly take-home pay for a gun they don’t want, but is all they can have (at least not more than once).

As for Dealers; let’s say I want a Ruger, P345PR / Steel, Polymer .45 ACP. I order it on May 7th. Due to problems with the shipping co., instead of 12 days, it takes 30 days to arrive at the CFFL (don’t tell me it’s unlikely, at least 30% of the items I order shipped get “misplaced” for days and several were lost for weeks despite tracking #s). On May 27, 2012 it drops off the Roster. No one knows whether it is legal for the CFFL to transfer that gun now, so, to be safe, he rejects the package. Now the Dealer is out the transaction cost (e.g. the credit card processing fee, possibly the shipping fee). And he must document the return of the firearm for BATFE who will undoubtedly assume an illegal and nefarious purpose. Further, it is illegal for the Dealer to “alter” the gun for sale in California (so changing out a 17 rd. magazine for a 10 rd. mag. is forbidden). Why would a dealer in another state carry stock that no one who is not in California will buy?

No. Unless we can force a change in Sacramento or in the courts, I can’t blame anyone, but my neighbors.

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Mike April 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm

P.S. I belong to the NRA and contribute portions of my meager salary to calguns and the 2nd Amendment Foundation all of whom fight for the basic rights the politicians ignore.

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kuri77 April 26, 2012 at 6:13 pm

Can anyone tell me when CA first required regulation of private gun sales between gun owners?

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David S May 30, 2012 at 2:44 am

California is the tip of the liberal spear. It is seen by the rest of the nations liberals as a fine example of progressive thinking in action. So many laws that spread like wildfire around the country got started here. To hide behind your free States and think you are safe is to ignore history. California, the home of nearly 40,000,000 people. This is the front lines of the battle for all our 2nd amendment rights. If they can get away with it here they can get away with it almost everywhere, maybe not today, or tomorrow, but soon. Make your stand with us and we have the opportunity to help safeguard the rest of the nations rights to keep and bear arms.

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Vitoj Thorstadj July 13, 2012 at 8:32 am

What’s Happening i’m new to this, I stumbled upon this I have found It positively useful and it has helped me out loads. I hope to contribute & help other users like its aided me. Good job.

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Jethro January 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm

To summarize what happened:
Obama won. Taxes rise. Gun confiscation underway nation wide.
California assembly has a democratic supermajorty and … Taxes rise. They can now do virtually anything they want raising taxes, fees and restrictions on guns.

We are on our way to full communism with infinite taxation, not representation and disarmed to be slaves of the state.

Is that enough summary for you?

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Nandish Sood September 11, 2012 at 6:30 pm

My Aunt suggested this website, and she was absolutely right in every way!
Keep up your good work!

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Lanny Stricklett November 9, 2012 at 10:24 am

Stumbled onto your page by accident. I am one of those people who refuse to even attempt to understand your goofy laws. I’m also one of those guys who spells it with a “K”. I accidentally forgot the “no K sales clause” while selling an Advantage Arms conversion kit on Gunbroker. Yep, a Kalifornian bought it. Now I’m trying to find out if I can even ship the stupid thing to him. Don’t even know if its legal. Now you seem to infer that we are at fault for not jumping through the hoops like good trained dogs for you guys. Myself, I see no good reason to put up with YOUR silly bullshit laws simply for your convenience. My I point out, YOU CHOOSE to live there. Move! I CHOOSE not to put up with the bullshit. Only now, because of my own oversight I’m wading through obtuse legalese to find out if I’m breaking some law in a foreign country 2000 miles away! I’m out of sympathy and full of frustration.

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John Doe December 21, 2012 at 9:19 pm

Why would somebody want to deal with the headache of all this extra legal BS. I think most people are afraid of doing something in the grey area of the law. The liberals have won california. The fight is over.

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Danny March 6, 2013 at 11:52 pm

Is it legal for an LEO to sell you a handgun and can you legally own one that is not on certified handgun list?

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