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Debate Watch: Tim Kaine, ‘I’m a Strong 2A Supporter’

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The vice presidential debate was on this week, did you watch? If so, what were your thoughts? Who won? Who lost?

For me, I thought the clear winner was Trump’s guy, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence. He was calm, cool and collected during the debate, adroitly deflecting a lot of the bait that his opponent, Hillary’s minion, Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine was throwing his way.

Let’s face facts, Trump has said a lot of inflammatory things while on the campaign trail and Pence had the unenviable job of defending and/or explaining those comments to the American people. Sen. Kaine made it a point to bring up some of Trump’s foot-in-mouth statements over and over to throw Pence off guard.

One such remark was with respect to Trump’s seemingly odd praise of Russian president Vladimir Putin.

During one exchange, Sen. Kaine said that Trump “loves dictators” and has a “personal Mount Rushmore” that includes Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Gadhafi, Saddam Hussein and that Trump believes that “that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons.”

To which Gov. Pence retorted, “Did you work on that one a long time? Because that had a lot of really creative lines in it.”

I thought that was a clever comeback by Pence. Instead of getting caught up in addressing the inanity of Kaine’s accusations, Pence totally undermined it by pointing out how rehearsed it sounded. It was an effective blow because it was undoubtedly a canned attack that Kaine had worked on during the debate prep.

So, Pence was the winner. Not only because he defended his running mate but he also managed to land a few jabs of his own on Hillary. Pence brought up Hillary’s use of a private email server, her mishandling of classified information and the pay for play operations of the Clinton Foundation.

Probably my favorite exchange is when Pence brought up how Hillary was treated with kid gloves by the FBI during its investigation of her hacked server that contained classified information.

“If your son or my son handled classified information the way Hillary Clinton did…they’d be court-martialed,” said Pence.

“That is absolutely false and you know that,” exclaimed Kaine, in a moment of desperation.

“Absolutely true,” said Pence.

And, it is true. Just ask Kristian Saucier of Arlington, Vermont, who was sentenced to a year in prison for taking six photos of a nuclear submarine back in 2009, when he was 22-year-old machinist working on board. Proud of his contributions, Saucier wanted to share the pics with friends, family (and his future children) back home. Saucier tried to use the “Hillary Clinton” defense in court. But lo and behold, it didn’t work.

As it relates specifically to gun rights, Kaine tried to pull a fast one on the audience and viewers, suggesting that he was an advocate for one’s right to keep and bear arms.

“I’m a gun-owner,” said Sen. Kaine. “I’m a strong Second Amendment supporter. But I’ve got a lot of scar tissue, because when I was governor of Virginia, there was a horrible shooting at Virginia Tech, and we learned that through that painful situation that gaps in the background record check system should have been closed and it could have prevented that crime, and so we’re going to work to do things like close background record checks. And if we do, we won’t have the tragedies that we did.”

On its Twitter feed, the National Rifle Association was quick to dispel the notion that Kaine was a friend of the 2A. The nation’s gun lobby tweeted that Kaine has earned a perennial “F” rating throughout his political career.

The NRA also pounced on Kaine’s insinuation that expanded background checks stop mass killings.

The idea that we can stop mass killings with more laws is asinine. As James Alan Fox, the co-author of Extreme Killing: Understanding Serial and Mass Murder and the Lipman Professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy at Northeastern University, wrote in a recent op-ed in USA Today, “Most mass killers are not on terrorism watch lists and do not have criminal records or a history of psychiatric commitment, and thus are able to purchase their guns and ammo legally. Even if denied, they can always beg, borrow or steal the weapons needed to perpetrate a bloodbath.”

Now Fox supports gun-control, but even he recognizes that it would be virtually ineffective at stopping determined mass killers. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, it’s a bit odd for someone like Fox to support gun control given that he is keenly aware of its limitations at preventing crime, including the failed Clinton-Era ban on so-called “assault weapons.” Like most academics, it’s clear that Fox is not a gun guy.

In any event, the main takeaway from this debate is that Kaine is a liar. Background checks will not stop spree killers. And yes, he may own a gun, but he doesn’t support one’s individual right to keep and bear arms. If he did, there’s no way he would’ve joined the rabidly anti-gun Clinton machine. No way.

{ 62 comments… add one }
  • Dave C October 11, 2016, 3:16 am

    This election is not about a dishonest, untrustworthy, corrupt Hillary, or a spoiled teenager named Donald.

    THIS IS ABOUT WHO WILL CONTROL THE SUPREME COURT FOR THE NEXT 40 YEARS!

    After 8 years of Obama, I think Trump can be handled by the Congress, if they grow some balls.

    But the supreme court is starting to rewrite laws instead of interpreting the Constitution, which is VERY DANGEROUS!

  • Rouge October 10, 2016, 7:47 pm

    Trump is too scary. Like putting a nuke in the hands of an infant. Another scary thing is that Putan likes him and Putan is pure evil.
    I am a gun owner too and not worried near as much about Hillary as Trump. We heard rumors all 8 years of Obama about this and that with ammo and bullets and we all still have our guns. I hear the same rumors all over again prior to this election. There was a lot of crying wolf but no wolf ever appeared.
    I think you all best get used to the idea either way of Hillary in the while house as supporting Trump has reduced the chances for a Republican president this time around. A comedian put it this way as comparing Hillary to Trump: If a raisin oatmeal cookie was used to compare Hillary and Trump and a raisin represented a lie the Hillary cookie would have a lot more raisins than your average cookie but the Trump cookie would be like a hailstorm of raisins!

  • Patriot October 7, 2016, 8:18 pm

    Believe it or not, Hillary’s presidency would surely be the worst of times in the United States. The purpose of selecting Tim Kaine as the candidate for vice-president was to have someone with the same mindset and ability as Hillary. That is, no hesitation to lie to gain a better political position. A blatant lie about being a supporter of the Second Amendment was no problem for Tim Kaine. Even Hillary could not lie about that! Also, to lie about the mishandling of State Department classified emails by Hillary, to lie about the total lack of support by Secretary of State Hillary during the United States embassy attack in Benghazi in which four Americans died, to lie about the policy of permitting unlimited illegal immigration and giving the illegal immigrants support money so they will vote for Democrats when Democrat politicians make them legal, to lie about the policy of closing Guantanamo and giving it to Communist Cuba and releasing the terrorists so they can fight the U.S. armed forces in the Middle East, and to lie about the absolutely terrible character and judgement of Hillary. Be assured, lies and actions from Hillary and VP candidate Tim Kaine and their comrades such as Obama, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, Bloomberg, Soros, Network “News” Media, Katie Couric, Sen. Harry Reid, Billy and Chelsea, Gov. Brown of California, Gov. Brown of Oregon, Gov. Inslee of Washington, Sen. Schumer of New York, AG Healey of Massachusetts, and others who are fanatical about making Americans unarmed and defenseless would make the situation seem like endless misery. VOTE FOR TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS !!!!

  • Patriot October 7, 2016, 8:06 pm

    Believe it or not, Hillary’s presidency would surely be the worst of times in the United States. The purpose of selecting Tim Kaine as the candidate for vice-president was to have someone with the same mindset and ability as Hillary. That is, no hesitation to lie to gain a better political position. A blatant lie about being a supporter of the Second Amendment was no problem for Tim Kaine. Even Hillary could not lie about that! Also, to lie about the mishandling of State Department classified emails by Hillary, to lie about the total lack of support by Secretary of State Hillary during the United States embassy attack in Benghazi in which four Americans died, to lie about the policy of permitting unlimited illegal immigration and giving the illegal immigrants support money so they will vote for Democrats when Democrat politicians make them legal, to lie about the policy of closing Guantanamo and giving it to Communist Cuba and releasing the terrorists so they can fight the U.S. armed forces in the Middle East, and to lie about the absolutely terrible character and judgement of Hillary. Be assured, lies and actions from Hillary and VP candidate Tim Kaine and their comrades such as Obama, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, Bloomberg, Soros, Network “News” Media, Katie Couric, Sen. Harry Reid, Billy and Chelsea, Gov. Brown of California, Gov. Brown of Oregon, Gov. Inslee of Washington, Sen. Schumer of New York, AG Healey of Massachusetts, and others who are fanatical about making Americans unarmed and defenseless would make the situation seem like endless misery. VOTE FOR TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS !!!!

  • Tony October 7, 2016, 7:14 pm

    You really need a thumbs down icon.
    Some of the idiotic comments on here.

  • John Maher October 7, 2016, 5:10 pm

    “Stop and Frisk” is “Common Sense Gun Control” — taking weapons away from those who should not have them.

    • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 7:38 am

      John, “Stop & Frisk,” is a double edged sword. I have heard from many posters to this site that say they carry for protection in “Gun Free Zones.” They could be looking at felony charges and have their 2A rights stripped away, if Stop & Frisk were implemented.

  • robert jeevnsen October 7, 2016, 3:45 pm

    There are simply zero “buts” allowed in anyone’s declared support for gun ownership.
    If you feel the need to insert a “but” in your Second Amendment support, you may as well just shut up, walk away, and join Obama, Hillary, and The Brady Campaign.

  • punchy white October 7, 2016, 2:41 pm

    When you have to lead your comment with “I’m a supporter…” you know the next sentence begins with “but”. The big but in this case is that Timmy is a big Pinko lib who thinks the ruling class should subjugate the unwashed masses.

  • Rod Arnold October 7, 2016, 2:12 pm

    I trust Kaine as much as a Muslim terrorist!!!

  • Larry October 7, 2016, 1:51 pm

    We need to always keep in mind that, if they are running for President, VP, the Senate or the House, or even for local dog catcher, if they are leftist Dems, they are lying to you! They will say anything that will secure your vote. They put used car salesmen to shame. Save our country & STOP voting for Democrats!

  • Victor October 7, 2016, 12:38 pm

    It is a stupid assertion that if a democrat is elected president our gun rights will be gone. They paraded families who had lost their kids to gun violence all over the Whitehouse and congress. Everyone said we are sorry for your loss but there’s the door. Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you. I know the ideology of if you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile, but the only real thing that seems to be happening is that gun forums say lookout they are comming for your guns and prices sky rocket and we start hoarding ammo. The reason I am an NRA member is because they apply pressure to politicians and to keep our second ammendment in tact. Instead of spreading fear, give money to this type of organiztions. I am sure that they will see to it that no legislation passes that will infringe on our rights paases and it will keep prices low. All it takes for hoarding to start is one credible gun forum to say that our guns or ammo are being taken away.

    • Rouge1 October 7, 2016, 3:30 pm

      Been to California or Massachusetts?

    • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 7:41 am

      Victor,

      Study up on how our Supreme Court operates. Hillary will be appointing new SC Justices if elected. Figure it out.

    • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 8:45 am

      From Richard A Pearson’s, IL St Rifle Assoc., Executive Director’s Message, Thurs, 10/08/16:

      “On Monday the office received a call from a member who indicated they were going to vote for Hillary Clinton, misguided to say the least. It has taken millions of dollars, an enormous amount of time, massive efforts by organizations like the ISRA, NRA and SAF as well as personal sacrifices by people like Dick Heller, Otis McDonald and others to bring the Second Amendment back to its real meaning. If Hillary Clinton is elected President, Heller v DC, which is the cornerstone of the Second Amendment movement, will be reversed. McDonald v City of Chicago will be overturned, as well as many other cases and will fall by the wayside and turned into the dust of history. Moreover, there are other important cases waiting like Peruta v County of San Diego, which seeks to destroy concealed carry. In this case, the County of San Diego insists there is no right to carry concealed in the Second Amendment and that a person must prove his or her life is in danger before being issued a permit. The 9th Circuit upheld the County’s position by a margin of 7-4. Before you say that it’s “just California”, Hillary’s court will make that the law of the land.”

    • Herman October 10, 2016, 1:40 pm

      It is clear that reality has not yet arrived in your neighborhood, Victor. Hillary has on many occasions, and consistently since the 1990’s, said that outlawing civilian ownership of guns would be a good thing. She listed the NRA as one of her top enemies. She said the Australian gun confiscation looked like a good way to go. She said that the Supreme Court decisions which upheld the second amendment were “wrong”. Considering that she is running for election and half the people in the country are gun owners, do you expect her to come out and say that she is going to come after your guns? All she has to do is to get a liberal judge to replace Scalia and the second amendment is gone. It won’t be instant, but when an opportunity comes up for the court to decide on something related to the second amendment, poof, your right to own a gun goes away. And judges are appointed for life. They don’t come up for reelection in 2 years like congressmen, or in 4 years like the president. You can’t vote them out.

  • Bob October 7, 2016, 12:26 pm

    Tim Kaine, F for Foney (sic).

    • punchy white October 7, 2016, 2:44 pm

      The public school grads appreciate that.

      • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 7:42 am

        That’s just rong

  • Stephen Culbertson October 7, 2016, 11:57 am

    Obama said the same thing and we know what a lying douche he turned out to be – Trump will be a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment because his sons are both hunters and shooters and attended the NRA convention and Shot Show – people commenting here are twisting his words as always – when he says take their guns he is referring to criminals and gang members so I’m sure he will do that in a way that won’t trample our freedom. We obviously know Hillary and Kaine are supporters in name only and will do everything in their power to get a “assault weapons ban” and anything else they can sneak through – they are on record so don’t fall for their bullshirt

  • mike Gundlach October 7, 2016, 11:04 am

    Only thing that the republican regime has achieved by all this made up bull about guns being taken by the Democrates is higher ammunition prices, and 22 bullets being not available except in rationing.

    • Rouge1 October 7, 2016, 3:32 pm

      Been to California, Connecticut, Massachusetts?

  • Bob October 7, 2016, 10:57 am

    We all need to stand by what we believe in.we need to talk to friends and family and try to get them to realize
    if the demon-crats get elected,the transformation of this great land will be complete.all other rights will be gone.

  • tom October 7, 2016, 10:45 am

    look the fact is weather its obama ,hillary or tim kaine they are all professional liars and dam good at it. they say one thing and do the opposite their goal is to promise their loyalty to their voters and then let them down to fulfill their own agendas . its corruption at the highest level they can lie cheat and steal and our government allows it .i myself am dam sick of it and cant stand what our politicians stand for anymore yah its true trump is unpolished and says what we all think and thats what i like about him the past has shown that we all make bad decisions time to time but if trump does 10% of what he says he will thats 99% more than what our spineless last president has done in the last 7 1/2 years we need change and trump has my vote . the people of america need to vote with their heads and heart and not vote as a political puppet and regret your decision again vote trump /pence and think about the future of your children and their children their future is in your hands make the right decision

    • r roug October 7, 2016, 11:27 am

      look the fact is weather its obama ,hillary or tim kaine….

      Results by independent fact checkers…
      Clinton lies: 13%
      Trump lies: 53%
      Every other word out of trumps mouth is a lie…. so much for “facts”,
      the guy cares NOTHING about anything but himself

      • Captain Bob October 7, 2016, 12:02 pm

        r roug: Interesting comments. It’s funny, but when I checked on the fact checkers their results were almost exactly as you stated EXCEPT the person were reversed… i.e. it is Hillary lying about 61% of the time that she quotes facts or makes statements and Trump is caught lying about 9% of the time (usually honest mistakes in the heat of speech-making).
        Is this an honest mistake by you or are you following the Hillary/Kaine tradition of making up facts, attributing them to fact checkers (with no source provided) and laying out the lies to support your Liberal agenda?

      • tom October 7, 2016, 12:08 pm

        wow if thats what you believe that hes in it for himself why would anyone who is a billionaire waste his time on our country. hes out to change the downward spiral of the usa .he doesnt need money… fool and maybe he really cares about the future of our country and youths. you can tell your a democrat because your so dam gullible what has the dems done for you besides giving out freebees to buy your vote . i dont believe facts checkers because they are probably liberals who are trying to stack the votes in favor of hillary and if you think hillary is honest and telling the truth abouth everything you are blinded by your own ignorance

    • r roug October 7, 2016, 11:36 am

      to the moderator: why did you take my reply down
      about the facts?

      Apparently, you’re another nazi… controlling thoughts, replies and actions.
      You’ll fit right into trumps demogogue agenda. Heil Hitler!

      • Kelly October 7, 2016, 2:23 pm

        Contrary to Leftist propaganda in the failing US education system, in reality, the Nazis were Left wing socialist… Nazi means “National Socialist”!!! Officially they were the Nationalsozialistische.

        Btw Libtard, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot took all guns from citizens and Demotards DO want to take our guns. I see a correlation between Demotards/Libtards and Neo-Marxist or NAZI party. Just watch Video interviews of Eric Holder, Obummer, Feinstein, and even the WITCH. Their ultimate goal is COMPLETE Gun-confiscation.

        Enjoy LaLa Land Libtard

  • r roug October 7, 2016, 10:32 am

    Here is what TRUMP SAID ON 26 SEPTEMBER 2016:
    …“we have to take their guns!” while discussing his plan to implement a nationwide stop-and-frisk program that has already been ruled unconstitutional.

    ….So much for trumpy being for the second amendment.

    • JIM October 7, 2016, 11:42 am

      Sooooo…..you’re voting for lying’ hillary?? DISGRACEFUL!

    • Captain Bob October 7, 2016, 12:05 pm

      r roug: That statement is taken out of context. What Trump said was that when people were stopped and frisked and illegal guns were found THEN we have to take those [illegal] guns. In no way did he mean taking legal guns from good citizens.

    • Dan Carroll October 7, 2016, 2:19 pm

      Roug:
      WOW, you are clueless. Stop & Frisk is NOT unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled it IS constitutional. Stop LYING like all the demonrats.

      • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 8:15 am

        How do you conduct, “Stop & Frisk” in a Constitutional manner that does not violate a person’s 4th Amendment Rights?

        the 4th: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, “[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly …

        Suppose they are targeting white males 20-60, to discover and bring charges against those of you who carry in “Gun Free Zones?” Are you OK with it then? It is, in fact, Constitutional under current law (although I disagree with it), but was rule unconstitutional in the manner NYC was carrying it out (targeting black and Hispanic males).

        See truth here: http://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/is-stop-and-frisk-unconstitutional/

        Let’s keep due process, and require “probable cause.” Support our Constitution, but vote Trump. He will be surrounding himself with the finest people once he take office, and they will straighten him out on this.

  • Harold Mendelson October 7, 2016, 10:16 am

    Another Democrat fib. Kaine didn’t pass muster with the NRA. The average Virginian almost lost the right to legally carry a concealed weapon. His statement that he is a strong supporter of the 2A adds one more negative adjective used to describe him. Not only is he rude, he is a liar it must be the influence of his running mate Hillary.

  • Bisley October 7, 2016, 10:16 am

    Kaine is a lying, Marxist lunatic (as is Hillary). Anyone stupid enough to vote for these people deserves to lose their rights and property to the government they want to impose on us. Unfortunately, if they gain control of government, it will be all of us who are subject to their rule.

  • james dean October 7, 2016, 10:02 am

    LIARS ! liars ! What a team. Hillary must have infected the man with her lies.
    What a pathetic choice the lefties have put up.

  • Infidel7.62 October 7, 2016, 9:52 am

    Another lying, gun hating scumbag.

  • Mike Price October 7, 2016, 8:41 am

    I remember all the lies Obummer gave us when running and Hillary is doing the same thing. It worked for Obummer and it will work for her. Hillary tells one group that “the guns should be out of the hands of all” and then tells the next group that “she is not going to ban your gun”. Boloney! I can’t believe a word out of her mouth. Look how many times now she has been caught lying.

  • Mike Price October 7, 2016, 8:40 am

    I remember all the lies Obummer gave us when running and Hillary is doing the same thing. It worked for Obummer and it will work for her. Hillary tells one group that “the guns should be out of the hands of all” and then tells the next group that “she is not going to ban your gun”. Boloney! I can’t believe a word out of her mouth. Look how many times now she has been caught lying.

  • Onigoroshi October 7, 2016, 8:36 am

    For claiming to be a second amendment supporter, Kaine sure doesn’t seem to grasp the whole “shall not be infringed ” part, especially since he thinks more regulations will help stop atrocities. Further more, I don’t trust anyone that supports Clinton the liar. Birds of a feather flock together.

  • Mike Price October 7, 2016, 8:35 am

    Kaine is about as flaky as Hillary is. They tell you what you want to hear at the moment. Now Hillary is going with Trumps idea’s on security on screening and tougher trade. What flip-flopper. She will say anything to get elected. This is her time and she is not going to let anything or anybody get in the way. It’s her right to this is her attitude. She doesn’t give a rats ass about anybody.

  • Chris Cole. October 7, 2016, 8:01 am

    You know, I remember Tin Kain from back when Bush JR. was presidant. Matter of fact, back then as far as Democrats went I remember thinking that he was one of the few who came off as halfway sane. Now any politician on TV is more worried about winning then their constituents. Just because Trumps kids like guns don’t give them a break because the NRA says so. Was not to long ago that the Donald supported gun control.

    • Ted Kowalski October 7, 2016, 8:50 am

      Tim Kaine may sound sane, but he is a confirmed Obama boot licker.
      If the Democrat leadership tells Tim Kaine to jump, Kaine is in the air, before he asks “how high?”.
      As a Virginia resident, I have written a number of letters to Kaine over the years to support one position or to reject another position.
      Weeks later, I get a common nonsense form letter from Kaine’s office; often informing me that I have an opinion that is offset by the greater need of additional “common sense” laws and regulations. Democrat speak for, “We believe firearm confiscation is a common sense law.
      Kaine’s letters often referred to how Republicans were partisan obstructionists; which I assume were tangential answers to my requests that Kaine not ‘rubber stamp’ Obama and Reid machinations.

      Kaine is a bold liar. His supposedly sane voice and responses are masks covering his slimy sophistry as Kaine marches to an elitist 100% partisan anti-populist tyrannical drum. Kaine will happily swindle and trample any voter or citizen, who seeks good government.

      • Dave K. October 7, 2016, 12:06 pm

        Reminds me of the smarmy replies I received from that jackass Warner. Really miss Jo Ann Davis. She was one in a million.

  • Grant October 7, 2016, 7:56 am

    PENCE appears to be a cool headed common since red blooded American.That would make a great Ballance and anchor for a Trump white house . If he had to take over the seat as President I think he is more qualified than all of them. Kaine blatantly Lied In front of all of America I lost all potential Respect for him right then . We can’t have 2 liers shacked up together in the white house. What America is Right at this time Is not progress
    God Bless America Not Allah

  • roger October 7, 2016, 6:12 am

    Please gun owners. A vote for other than Trump goes to Hillary who wants your guns.

    • Captain Bob October 7, 2016, 12:08 pm

      Absolutely correct. I tell EVERYONE that not voting (as a protest) or voting for anyone other than Trump is a vote for Hillary.
      We MUST vote for Trump, like him or not, because he is the only one who can possibly beat HiLIARy.

      • Rouge1 October 7, 2016, 3:34 pm

        Hillary has stated she wants to go the way of Australia.

  • Rudolph Ferdinand October 7, 2016, 5:38 am

    I do agree with you in all points!

  • Veteran Gunsmith at large October 7, 2016, 3:53 am

    Tim Kaine is a con man, like most democrat liberal politicians and I would not trust him any further than I can throw him – and I am in a wheelchair. The man just reeks of insincerity and BS. He will betray all of us if given the chance, just like his running mate. If our rights are to be preserved, Trump is the only selection. Not that I am that strong of a supporter of Trump, but his family are shooters and I believe what he says about the Second Amendment and rebuilding our military and taking care of the vets.

    If you ask me something is up with Kaine – that raising the left eyebrow when he delivers one of his one liners and all the incessant distraction when his opponent was speaking told me he is a class A jerk. Pence is a kind of guy you could see in a casual situation and not feel like he is trying to steal your wallet.

    I think we all know what kind of person Hillary and her minions are. NFG.

  • Tom Horn October 6, 2016, 10:30 pm

    Hey there, Christian.

    Have to take exception, but respect your opinions. “The fact that the USA is against smaller countries, like Iran, Saudi-Arabia or North Korea building nuclear weapons, is not good for the USA in the eyes of the people in the outside world.”

    I suggest the outside world get their eyes checked. The USA has been very responsible with their nuclear arsenal. We have used no nuclear weapons since Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the first, and only two). To let diabolical, and unstable world leaders like Kim Jung-un, or Ali Khamenei possess nuclear weapons is world suicide/genocide. It will happen someday (Pandora’s Box), but we must all work to postpone it as long as possible.

    I too, would like to see the USA get out of the World Police business. But that would mean other countries would have to step up. We tried “isolationism,” before WWI, and tried to stay out of WWII while millions were slaughtered world wide. That is definitely no longer a viable option in this interdependent/interconnected world.

    Consider this: A Cyber Attack could generate as much, or more death and destruction than a nuclear warhead, and it would be much cheaper to implement. Suppose you shut down a country’s power grid, banking/financial systems. Suppose the welfare checks and food stamps didn’t arrive. Unrest, rioting, looting, disease, starvation, and famine.

    Best regards, Tom

    • Christian October 7, 2016, 10:34 am

      Hello Tom,

      I have absolutely no problem with someone to disagree with me. This is what discussion boards and the freedom of speech are for. I also believe that I unfortunately wasn’t explaining everything as I wanted it to be explained (it was already a late hour when I wrote my post and sometimes I have a hard time to talk about foreign politics). I just wanted to say how stupid it is in my eyes, and many other people’s eyes, if one country, that has many nuclear warheads ready to fire, blames other countries in building up their nuclear war gear because both countries are not angels in this matter. I know that the only nuclear bombs ever fired by the USA, besides the test bombs after the war, on people were the two Japanese bombs, as you mentioned. And I remember that, if my information’s are correct, your country can only think about firing these things if you achieved Defense Condition 1, which means America has to be attacked by an outside force on its very own soil. Yet, I would just love to see these things to fade away from our earth, while I am interested into all other kinds of weapons (that’s why I’m obviously checking this website daily) and that everybody should have a gun for self-defense.

      Yet, I agree with your point that extreme leaders of certain countries should better not keep these things in their own hands. But can you ever trust any person with this kind of power, no matter how calm he/she is? People can change and many politicians lose their touch with reality very quickly. Especially in my country, Germany, it is easy to see, just take a look at Merkel and Gauck. I neither trust Hillary nor Trump with the power of the red button, maybe Mr. Pence because he stated in this debate that no one can win a nuclear war, so he knows what it means in the end but I trust truly none of your presidential candidates and also not vice-presidential candidate Mr. Kane, if they ever get their hands on the “button of doom”, as I would call it.

      I do follow your point that, in a globalized world, isolationism is quite impossible to do. I am not a historian but in World War 1 there were many steps for the USA, until they decided that they need to go in, for example the sinking of the passenger ship Lusitania. And in World War 2 the war has been directly brought to American soil, so the US had no other choice than to fight. So there were good reasons why the USA had to go into these wars. But what happens right now in Syria, well, according to my opinion it would be better if the USA would have never dropped a single bomb or even took part in the international sanctions.

      Yes, you are absolutely right Tom. A cyber-attack, although I don’t know much about this for sure, can be especially devastating to any nation. There is nothing I could add to the points, which you already have written well.

      Best regards to you too! Christian

      • Tom Horn October 7, 2016, 8:52 pm

        Thanks Christian. I appreciate hearing points of view from outside the USA. We could definitely work on our world image, but it is frustrating when we spend so much, not only on defense of other countries, but billions of tax dollars and private donations on humanitarian aid, and yet we are hated in much of the world.

        I don’t have the answers, but perhaps when Trump makes America Great Again, cough, cough.

        Take care, Tom

        • Christian October 8, 2016, 12:35 pm

          You’re welcome Tom. I also like very much to take a part into the discussions that take place here and I was surprised how the community likes to hear an outsider’s opinion and from what I also have learned while visiting this website. Yes, the humanitarian aid is something many countries spend billions of Dollar, Euro etc. to. I have worked three years in a small German development aid organization and the problem is not the huge amounts that a country spends, but the fact that none of the money arrives in the hands of the people that really need it. Mostly the corrupt governments of the countries are taking it. Or the countries that sent this humanitarian aid spent the money for something completely different in those countries. When I saw so many things during my three years of being employed in such an organization, I lost my faith into aid, humanitarian help and all the stuff. I could write a book about where the money goes to and what is the truth behind everything. Unfortunately, I have no written proof with me, only my experiences from the time I worked in there. But never again you will see me working for such an organization.

          But let me tell you one thing: I don’t believe that the non-American people hate all the Americans in general. Of course I can mostly just speak from myself now but it is the government of yours we often disagree with. I personally know that there are plenty of good Americans out there, many of them on this website, for example. We all have our differences on certain opinions and all and that is normal. But I do believe that we should act all together for a better world (utopian dream I know). The problem are our politicians around the world, the ones that only monger for their own power and don’t understand that nothing of the power you have gathered on Earth can help or save you when you die.

          About Trump, well I hope that Mr. Pence will keep him at bay and help him creating a greater America. To me, a president is at first just a president but he has no power without certain senators, a stable congress and a good right-hand, which will be Mr. Pence. I personally wouldn’t focus on Trump that much. I do believe there are good people behind him, just like Mr. Pence, who will work hard. A president just presents a country, he is not the alone leader with absolute power, as far as I do understand the American system of government. By the way, what I have just written would obviously be no excuse in voting for Hillary. I believed into Obama in 2008 and he destroyed everything. I don’t fall into the promises of the democrats this time. But I also don’t want to see another Bush-type era, which we had before Obama.

          Have a nice weekend Tom! Christian

  • Tom Horn October 5, 2016, 8:51 pm

    Tim Kaine makes my skin crawl (even more than Hillary). I wouldn’t buy a used car from the man.

    Of the four Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates, only Pence acts and carries himself in a Presidential manner. Pence is the only candidate who would shock me if his skin cracked open, and a reptilian life form crawled out on Inauguration Day.

    I hunt and fish in Governor Pence’s State of Indiana. They have signs in the parks and wildlife areas thanking hunters/sportsman, and informing the public that these lands are funded by hunters’/sportsmens’ tax dollars collected form Pittman-Robertson Act (tax you pay on firearms/ammo). Signs on the expressways informing you that Indiana has had a balanced budget since 2011 (correct me if I have the date wrong). Fiscal responsibility. I like that. Indiana has REAL common sense firearm and knife laws.

    If Hillary, or Trump get impeached, do you want the Reptilian Overlord (Citizen Kaine) for your next POTUS?

    • Rouge1 October 7, 2016, 3:36 pm

      You know your common sense gun laws are unconstitutional?

      • Tom Horn October 7, 2016, 5:14 pm

        I concede your point, Rouge1.

  • Christian October 5, 2016, 1:39 pm

    Wow, that was an even longer debate than the first presidential debate, or at least a much longer video! And here is my personal outsider view on this matter and I have to admit that I likely didn’t understood everything they said.

    At first, after watching the presidential debate, I was wondering about Trump but now, as I have watched this video so far, I do have the feeling that Mr. Pence is really a good guy, while Mr. Kane was always trying to fall into Mr. Pence’s words and mostly just tried to blame Trump and Mr. Pence as well. Typical “democrat” way of trying to take out political opponents. Mr. Pence has my support and therefore Trump has my support again as well.

    But I have to say something about two foreign political things:

    1st Syria: No matter if Trump or Hillary will be the new president, I have one friendly request: Please stay out of this country. I don’t know much about Mr. Assad but calling his political leadership a regime is maybe a bit too far. Again, just as I stated last time in the news with the video of the presidential debate, it was the sanctions against Syria, made by many western countries, especially the US, that have weakened a country that was just five years ago one of the safest countries in the world. A country where you never heard that a bomb goes up, where terrorists create terror and where dozens of people suddenly want to leave. And those are not just my words, these were words from a Syrian politician (I don’t know his name but I would recognize his face easily and he speaks fluent English) on Phoenix, a Chinese TV channel in Hong Kong, last year in an English interview. Assad and Russia are fighting mainly against terrorists, including ISIS, and these organizations didn’t exist before the sanctions and the American interventions made it all that worse. I do understand that the USA and Russia are mostly having a hard time on the global political field, mostly because of the long opposing history since the end of World War 2. But I think instead of fighting verbally against these countries and their leaders, they should work together. Germany had good relations to Russia, under the leadership of Chancellor Schröder. I never liked him much but thanks to Chancellor Merkel the German-Russian relationships are destroyed and all you can see in German government TV is pure Goebbels-like pro-war propaganda. It is not good, especially not for world peace, which I am sure most of the people in the entire world want. I do understand that America should have a strong army, to defend its own soil, but I would like to see the day when there are no American forces in other countries in the world, as well as no other foreign forces in other countries. I do believe, that this would help the overall situation in the world, if the big countries, not just the US, would stop using smaller countries for their own interests, or bombing them all down, just because of one leader whose political vision they call a regime, just because they don’t like it. America is not the world’s policeman and outside of the US many people call president Obama “Barack Obomber” and unfortunately they have a good reason for this. I, as many other non-Americans, follow the presidential debate in the United States because we are also afraid of our national sovereignties, due to the fact that the United States very often try to get their hands on countries that were steady and peaceful, until the US invaded them, like Iraq and Syria, no matter how harsh the political system over there is or was with its own people. But since the US interventions and sanctions, the situations in countries like these even have worsened and this should obviously not be going on like this. We want to see this stop.

    2nd nuclear weapons: Let me be straight here. Many of the countries the USA considers as allies, have in fact nuclear weapons, for example France, at least this is what I have heard. I do believe it should be the right for every country in the world, to have nuclear energy. The fact that the USA is against smaller countries, like Iran, Saudi-Arabia or North Korea building nuclear weapons, is not good for the USA in the eyes of the people in the outside world. And this is because of the fact that the USA has maybe the biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons, so powerful that I do believe only one of these could rip our planet apart. Luckily, Mr. Pence is aware that a nuclear war cannot be won by anyone. I was really proud of him when he said this because this is absolutely my view as well. So, because the USA has so many nuclear weapons, countries like Iran and North-Korea feel threatened and therefore build their own nuclear weapons. As much as I am against these horrific weapons, Mr. Trump was not completely wrong in what he said about having more and more nuclear weapons around the world would maybe make us safer. Many historians have stated, that the danger of a nuclear war is maybe the reason, why we have not seen a huge war, since the end of the 2nd World War. Yet, I do believe it would be better for the world, if as many countries as possible together work on the SDI defense system. A system that theoretically shoots nuclear warheads in the air, before they reach their target and therefore would make these horrible things finally obsolete. No matter which country has them, but as long as only one of these things does exist on Earth, we will never be able to live in safety. Nobody of us. Not you, not me, not the people of Asia, Africa, the Middle East or wherever. Remember, these things have a much bigger power than the ones they tested shortly after the 2nd World War. I would be surprised if even the president can ever imagine what kind of impact only one of these things would have to our planet.

    This is just my opinion about two things which I just wanted to write down tonight and I do believe, that I will maybe receive a negative reception of Gunsamerica users because of my different view on foreign politics but I am ready for them. Otherwise, I agree with Mr. Blannelberry and see Mr. Pence as the clear winner of this vice presidential debate. Mr. Kane obviously just tried most of the time to spread anti-Trump propaganda and pure insults, just as Mr. Pence stated to him in this video. I personally cannot wait for November, although I only can be a watcher and not a voter and I do believe this is the biggest presidential debate ever. Never before the United States of America were standing on such a sharp edge between two political visions and I am really interested to see, who the American people will vote for next month.

    • Joseph Garnier October 7, 2016, 4:04 am

      Assad and the Russians are fighting against ISIS; that’s a good observation. And Hillary Clinton worked for and was on the board of directors a French company that made deals with ISIS. http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wikileaks-exposes-clinton-isis/
      Follow the money. She and Bill are both globalists who care nothing about anyone but their own personal ambition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LYRUOd_QoM
      Pence said, “I am a Christian first, a conservative second, and a Republican third.” That will keep him from ever being classified with RINO’s like John McCain, who got an F- rating on his protection of the second amendment by the Gun Owner’s of America 8 years ago.

      • Christian October 7, 2016, 10:32 am

        Hello Joseph,

        out here in Europe, many people say that the gun industry, no matter if US, German or whatever country, needs wars to make money and therefore they in fact need terror groups like ISIS to keep their money machine rolling. Thank you for the two links, I saw a part of the Youtube video before but I think I should definitely watch it completely, although when I saw it in the first place, I wasn’t really surprised about what the Clintons do behind the curtains. To me it is one of the diseases of human nature: Many people just cannot stop anymore, as soon as they start to make big money and many of them lose all their ethics too. That is why I completely trust Mr. Pence. His words and his calmness just told my guts that he is the right man for this job and I do believe he would also make a good president of your country.

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