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Feds Use Local Police to Collect License Plate Info at Gun Shows

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(Photo: Ned Gerard, Westport News)

(Photo: Ned Gerard, Westport News)

Next time you plan to attend a gun show, it might be better to ride along with a friend.

According to a new report from the Wall Street Journal, the federal government has on multiple occasions used local police departments to scan license plates at gun shows in an effort to collect and record information on gun show attendees.

The Journal reviewed a series of 2010 emails between the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) and police departments in Southern California, including one in Del Mar, near the Mexican border. In the emails, federal agents persuade local police to use license plate readers to randomly scan cars at local gun shows. The agency planned to cross-reference that data with cars crossing the Mexican border to find and prosecute gun smugglers.

It gets better. According to the Journal, the emails indicated that this strategy could have been employed elsewhere around the country. ICE has no policy that dictates the use of license plate readers, and nothing would have kept them from continuing the practice from 2010 until now.

Needless to say, the report has upset privacy watchdogs and firearms enthusiasts alike.

Erich Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, told the Journal that his group opposes such surveillance. “Information on law-abiding gun owners ends up getting recorded, stored, and registered, which is a violation of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act and of the Second Amendment,” he said.

What ICE doesn’t seem to realize is that—contrary to what the Clinton campaign would have us believe—gun shows are not hotbeds of criminal activity. Quite the opposite, in fact.

According to an NIJ study released in December 1997 (“Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities”), only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows. The vast majority of firearms for sale at gun shows are being offered by federally licensed gun dealers. These individuals must ensure that each of their customers passes a background check, which prohibits most known criminals as well as illegal immigrants from purchasing firearms.

This is probably why, according to the Journal, “There is no indication the gun-show surveillance led to any arrests or investigative leads.”

Surprise, surprise. No one actually familiar with gun shows would think to target attendees in an effort to locate criminals. Maybe instead of invading the privacy of law-abiding gun show patrons, ICE should use its taxpayer dollars to target straw purchasers and criminals who steal firearms, both more likely sources of illegal guns than random gun show attendees.

{ 92 comments… add one }
  • BIGKIELBASSA October 12, 2016, 1:11 pm

    It’s a darn shame that good people have to suffer because of the actions of those who can’t behave . I understand and applaud the effort to catch those who would hurt us . Don’t be mad at the police . They are just doing what they are told to do. And I genuinely believe most police just want to bust a legetimate criminal . But I also question when is that effort too much of an intrusion into our expected privacy ?. When it is used to make a list just to record who owns guns for a possible future gun confiscation ? I realize it is a fine line, but when it’s my rights and expected privacy. I have to question its legality . I respect law enforcement . I understand the police are just doing what they are forced to do . Many of them are good gun loving Americans…But I do keep an eye on them . I don’t trust our current White House residents and their coconspiritors, communist supporters or fellow liberal politicians .. Maybe we should photograph all of their license plates and post them on the Internet ?? I obey the law. So should Our elected officials . Fight crime, not me.

  • Karl Vanhooten October 11, 2016, 12:54 pm

    Uh, so what? If you have something to hide, you shouldn’t be allowed in a gun show anyway. To suggest that one (implied: legally impaired or on a watch list) might want to ride with (implied: a “clean”) friend in his car is irresponsible.

    • Leonard October 16, 2016, 1:03 am

      Pull your head back out to where the sun DOES shine. The lack of oxygen is damaging your brain. What is legal today could, with the stroke of a pen, suddenly become illegal. This could lead to you’re being arrested for a legal activity at the time becoming a felony overnight. While no one wants a war with the federal govt, I believe it will one day become a necessity as the new prez decides to flex his/her muscle as more and more legally held rights become infringed upon…

  • Patriot October 10, 2016, 7:47 pm

    Have you noticed that Hillary is trying to avoid bad publicity pertaining to her claim that she will do everything she can do to make gun control and changes to the Second Amendment and changes to the Supreme Court her top priority and thus make Americans defenseless in a legal sense. Obviously she knows that publicity about taking guns from American citizens is bad publicity before the election. Apparently, the “Brady Bunch” is doing the talking for her so she can try to avoid the bad publicity and the lies and corruption before the election. Don’t forget about the lies about the Libyan ambassador and three assistants that were killed due to her making no effort to help them. (Remember – “JUST FORGET ABOUT THAT”) Don’t forget about the lies about the classified State Department emails and her private server and there are many more lies. THIS IS A CRITICAL ELECTION !!!! The people who support her consist of Obama, Billy and Chelsea, Tim Kaine, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, Harry Reid, Bloomberg, Soros who is the owner of Progressive insurance, Katy Couric, Dan Gross who is the leader of the “Brady Bunch”, Schumer, Healey, Gov. Brown of California, Gov. Brown of Oregon, practically all of the network news media including Rupert Murdoch of CNN, and many other people of this ilk. If Hillary is somehow elected, the Democrat idiots listed above would play a large part, politically, in changing the United States. Due to lies, corruption, and being very unqualified for president, Hillary MUST be defeated. To be honest about Hillary’s character, HILLARY IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE !!!!

  • onewickedgun October 9, 2016, 10:14 pm

    How about we let law enforcement try to find the bad guys! There would be much less crime if LE was allowed to be proactive instead of reactive due to the possibility of violating someones civil rights. I am an FFL, and th ATF can come to my place of business anytime during business hours announced or otherwise, I could care less, I am doing nothing wrong. I would be bitching about it if I had bad intentions selling firearms. I am by the book, and CMA. If you are legal, who cares what it takes fro them to get bad guys. PROACTIVE save lives, REACTIVE count casualties.

  • chuck October 9, 2016, 2:32 pm

    ALL POLITICANS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE BY THE NATURE OF THEIR WORK, ARE PARANIOD, EGOMANIC, SCHIZOPHENIC (MISSPELLED). THINK ABOUT IT

  • Terry O October 8, 2016, 2:43 pm

    I am a registered republican first of all, didn’t anybody think that the police/FBI might just be looking for people that shouldn’t be buying guns? Yes I am a gun owner and have attended many shows..My older brother even set up several shows. If you are not doing anything wrong, what is the problem. And by the way no one is going to eliminate the 2nd amendment. Further no politician has said they would!

    • mtman2 October 9, 2016, 2:10 pm

      Of course- if WE have nothing to hide-
      “Why certainly officers please come right in and search anywhere you wish as I have nothing to hide.”
      You may mean well in a naive sense of the bigger picture Terry O-.
      However limitations are on any inroads of Liberty for good reasons .
      They are the Foundation stones that must be guarded from being moved or the freedoms resting on them aret they come tumbling down to be rubble ~!

  • Dan Canfield October 7, 2016, 9:16 pm

    How about this?
    Forget gun control………
    Lets go for criminal control!
    First crime using any weapon to cause intimidation is 20 years hard time – no time off for good behavior!
    Weapons include hands, feet, clubs, knives, guns or any other item that can cause fear or injury (TO YOU).
    If they brought a weapon, they plan on using it (ON YOU) if they had to.
    No matter who or how bad they had to hurt someone (YOU)!
    Can anyone (YOU) face a criminal without feeling fear and/or terror?
    Criminals are terrorists!
    The second crime using any weapon is death sentence – they didn’t learn their lesson the first time!
    Why should we (YOU AND ME) deal with criminals who don’t learn the lesson the first time!
    NO THIRD STRIKE!
    Don’t play around with criminals…….Let’s end crimes of violence!
    Criminals should loose their rights to freedom and guns, NOT YOU AND ME!
    Maybe we should look at other crimes and handle them this way too!
    Bankers, computer hackers and scammers, lawyers, politicians, I’m sure we can think of many more……….
    Not funny? I don’t think that crime is funny. DO YOU?
    I’m tired of hearing about crime every day!
    When will we do something about it?
    We must demand that the laws be adequate to protect us and stop this endless cycle of crime against US!

    • Wayne October 10, 2016, 2:21 am

      Best suggestions I’ve heard yet! I wouldn’t change a thing.

  • Dolf October 7, 2016, 7:42 pm

    Maybe I just had an atypical experience at a major regional gun show when I saw two gang bangers leaving the show with a total of FIVE AK’s with 30 round mags. No way to know for sure but my 70 years of life experience tells me neither of them would pass a NICS check.

    The non-FFL sale is the loophole that needs closing.

    • mtman2 October 9, 2016, 2:30 pm

      So you “saw” – and – “they looked”…..
      That’d really fly in court eh = NOT-!!!
      Truthfully you have no idea what was what- but by your ‘opinion’ OUR Founding documents should be thrown out.
      When are your tupe “Sammy Safety nerds” get it thru your thicked lenses that true criminals will just but guns from eager blackmarketeers-???

      Like drugs being illegal has stopped that epidemic eh-?
      How did Prohibition work out for ya -?

      If there should even be a background check it should be done locally from a an online list sent by + updated by the FBI = NOT calling the so called FBI(truly a Globalist organization now= even Comey).

      The ONLY loophole is in the head of unlearned American’s clueless as to the paid in full values of- “freedoms under Liberty” and what that loss means ~!

  • Leighton Cavendish October 7, 2016, 6:23 pm

    Nothing illegal…the plates are in plain sight or open view…in public…anyone can take a photo or video…jot down the number, etc.
    Just because you see them at the gun shows does not mean they are not doing it at malls…marinas…banks…every parking lot…every street…all day every day…everywhere…
    Worried? Register your vehicles under your wife or kid…incorporate…whatever is legal in your state. Park elsewhere and ride a bike…or walk. Call a taxi or uber. Ride the bus. Have a friend or family member take you.
    Not enough money or resources to deport 20M illegals…there is NO WAY they will come for 400M+ guns.
    And if they were serious about gun control? Handguns would be the FIRST things to go. 95%+ of gun deaths are by handguns.But they want to restrict the scary BLACK rifles.Sounds pretty racist when you see it in print. LOL
    Yes…the 2nd is being infringed upon…more in some states than others, unfortunately. God forbid the same happen to voting rights…or the 4th or 5th…or the 14th…or the 1st. People really would be “up in arms” .

    • Long Gone Steve October 8, 2016, 1:58 am

      Leave it to Kalifornia. However, if the feds are not the ones running the plates through DMV, a misdemeanor is being committed by any state LEO who does so without an active investigation case number. Gone are the days of getting the home address of a hottie by running her plate. I am, however, quite sure that the federales labor under no such civil rights constraints.

    • mtman2 October 9, 2016, 3:43 pm

      EXCELLENT appraisels-!
      However “We the People” have in OUR slumber allowed the installation of unConstitutional near-do-well Nimrods into public office clueless by all as to the true values in OUR 3-Founding documents.
      WE are still the silent+moral majority yet more than half of this group still
      DO NOT VOTE-!!!
      If that wasn’t true MAO’bama never would have got in once let alone twice.
      This should be a shamefull thing- yet we’re now on the cusp of a criminal anti-American Alinskyite statist Witch becoming.
      So it isn’t parasites, varmint’s’, predatot’s and criminals fault that they do what they do if WE let them continue to do it on OUR watch = it’s the “watchmans” fault EZEKIEL 33:5-6 “but his blood I will require of the watchmans hand.”.
      In America the People are the watchman along with the representatives WE choose to look out for OUR nation…

  • Ken October 7, 2016, 4:53 pm

    The police will also take drug sniffing dogs to hotel parking lots late at night and to streets late at night. Also to gun show parking lots.
    If the K-9 alerts the cops will set up a pretext stop and then search the vehicle for drugs or firearms or both.
    Be aware
    The Fourth Amendment is what prevents illegal search and seizure and it is intrinsically intertwined with the Second Amendment.

    • William J Bull October 7, 2016, 10:17 pm

      Good!

  • Jerry Bryant October 7, 2016, 4:04 pm

    This is just another example of Obama, Clinton, and most other Democrats willingness to break the laws established to protect honest taxpaying gun owners from them and their Hitler tactics! Rather than locking the criminals committing gun crimes for life, they are released to validate the governments lies about legal gun owners! What don’t these self serving constitutional attempted butchers understand about the laws (1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act and of the Second Amendment) enacted to protect us from them and their bias attitudes of I’m the only one that knows what is right? Our fore fathers were right, for they had foresight about what would happen when the power brokers took control of our elected officals.

  • Larry Caldwell October 7, 2016, 3:57 pm

    When my rod and gun club holds its gun shows we actually have guys with warrants out against them sign up for background checks. The cops hook them up and haul them off. Criminals show up at gun shows all the time. Surprise!

  • PatrickJT October 7, 2016, 2:44 pm

    This is simply more of the sort of passive terrorism practiced by Marxist-democrat politicians and their pathetic servants in their effort to erode the United States Constitution and the fabric of our republic. The purpose of this surveillance and of announcing it is to drive a wedge between legitimate law enforcement officers and those who have traditionally been their greatest supporters: law abiding gun owners. These worms know who they are, they know what they are, and so do we. They will never succeed. They are just rabid dogs yapping at our heels.

  • JOHN T. FOX October 7, 2016, 2:22 pm

    PERHAPS FAKE PLATES OR NO PLATES ARE IN ORDER WHEN ONE ATTENDS THESE EVENTS. ONLY AN IGNORANT FOOL/GUN SHOW VIRGIN, WOULD SAY THAT GUNS ARE BOUGHT ILLEGALLY OR THAT A LOOPHOLE EXISTS. I’VE ATTENDED NORTH OF 50 GUN AND KNIFE SHOWS IN MY LIFE AND I’VE NEVER OBSERVED OR KNOWN OF A CRIME HAPPENING AT ONE. IT IS THE SAFEST PLACE TO BE IN AMERICA!

    • Graham S October 7, 2016, 4:04 pm

      Unless you attend one in Ft Myers!!!

  • Lance October 7, 2016, 1:19 pm

    I agree it’s not right but us bitching online about it isn’t going to change a thing. The gov has been overstepping its boundaries for as long as I can remember and I’m 53 but until we the people stand TOGETHER, nothing will change. Individuals cannot change things on their own or by simply complaining to each other saying it’s not right. Until we vote the a-holes out of office and get some working class people in there that aren’t career politicians nothing is going to change, only get worse. We the people must amass as one otherwise it won’t work. I’m as guilty as the next guy for saying this isn’t right and that’s wrong but I have not really done anything otherwise and I myself need to change that. Sure I’ve got my lifetime NRA membership and concealed carry license but I need to start by going to some sort of political functions and become a voice for once I guess. I don’t know what, but we all must do something together to get our great nation back from the democrats and the other professional politicians who’ve ruined it and we must stand together to do it. Thanks for letting me say what’s on my mind Guns America!.

    • Norman Lutter October 7, 2016, 2:39 pm

      Well said.

    • Jerry Bryant October 7, 2016, 4:08 pm

      Now that is an absolute truth, that the elected officials don’t want to see come to fruition!

    • nathan fryer October 8, 2016, 3:01 am

      Damn straight Lance…I second that speech…WE THE PEOPLE…not me the individual….We the people are the ones that appoint these politicians to uphold the laws of the United States…and the only way their going to listen is create a mass group at each states capital and tell them to obey the rules of office,that they raised their hand and swore to an OATH before God to uphold our Constitutional laws of the United States or they WILL be removed from office…It’s really that simple…because all my life I have seen people that if they didn’t do their job as they were assigned and by the rules…THEY WERE FIRED ! …It don’t make a damn bit of difference whether your a truck driver,iron worker,electrician,or a politician…if you don’t do your job according to the rules,…your done ! WE the PEOPLE are the their bosses…WE pay their wages…WE FIRE them if they don’t do their job….It’s just that simple !
      Thanks Guns America

  • Indymac October 7, 2016, 12:55 pm

    The 4473 is not a registration. It only tells the crooked Clinton owned F.B.I. that you are purchasing a handgun or long gun. No serial numbers are sent to them. Now if a Gun Shop is audited, who doesn’t say that the illegally contrived BATF won’t take pictures of the 4473’s that must stay in possession of the Gun Shop owner. When Ashcroft was Attorney General, the FBI was holding some 4473’s longer than the 90 day period that the law allowed for them for an investigation after they were no longer needed or not of use. (not sure if these were the only forms, someone may have the correct info) He told them to destroy those records. He only lasted 4 years with Bush. Face it folks, Feds are corrupt and other than a complete Revolution will change that.

  • Mark October 7, 2016, 12:34 pm

    The 4473 is not a registration. It only tells the crooked Clinton owned F.B.I. that you are purchasing a handgun or long gun. No serial numbers are recorded. Now if a Gun Shop is audited, who doesn’t say that the illegally contrived BATF won’t take pictures of the 4473’s that must stay in possession of the Gun Shop owner. When Ashcroft was Attorney General, the FBI was holding some 4473’s longer than the 90 day period that the law allowed for them for an investigation after they were no longer needed or not of use. He told them to destroy those records. He only lasted 4 years with Bush. Face it folks, Feds are corrupt and other than a complete Revolution will change that.

  • Robert October 7, 2016, 11:46 am

    I am a retired cop of 30 years. Anyone who believes this horseshit should have their head examined. Law abiding citizens need not live in fear. All cops are citizens and all of the feds I know and have worked with also took an oath to uphold the Constitution. None of us like oduma or hitlary and rest assured when the SHTF we’ll still be defending the rights of citizens as that’s who we are.

    • Ron October 7, 2016, 12:20 pm

      Yeah, well, Obama and Hillary have also taken an oath… But yes, I trust the average cop a lot more than those two!

      • Pete October 7, 2016, 1:38 pm

        Gun Shows are for guns not hate.

    • Larry October 7, 2016, 1:43 pm

      Robert, I too am retired LEO but I have to disagree with you. Just look at New Orleans after the hurricane when the city police took unlawful orders & confiscated everyone’s guns & then, after the situation was over, they still refused to return them until the NRA got involved. I can see that kind of garbage happening all over the country in larger leftist controlled cities. I wish I had the unwavering faith in LE that you have but I don’t.
      I also believe the SHTF time is sooner than later. Be safe out there, Robert.

    • jake d October 7, 2016, 1:57 pm

      Sorry Robert but i have seen it first hand. If you were a cop for 30 years and don’t blieve the cops are political puppets you must have been a cop in Mayberry.

  • Jim October 7, 2016, 11:37 am

    YESSIREE…..OUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK FOR US. A LITTLE SNEAKY IN MY VIEW!

  • Pete October 7, 2016, 11:21 am

    I’m a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide. If my license plate is recorded no worries on my part. But I think the law enforcement should be aware of who attends the show with all the hate paraphernalia in these shows. Most implying that the President of the United States is evil. Yeah yeah freedom of speech. I go to gun show for guns not hate. Let’s talk about removing all these hate paraphernalia out of the show.

    • Mark October 7, 2016, 11:42 am

      “I have nothing to hide” people like you are the WORST enablers of governmental abuses like this. I hope you know that.

    • Brandon October 7, 2016, 11:57 am

      It really has nothing to do with you and what you may or may not have to hide. This is about a government entity that will overstep the bounds of what is ethically sound or legal to accomplish their objective. Many people have been railroaded into court or prison because they didn’t have anything to hide and the people in charge of the system had motives other than performing their duties with integrity. Know your rights and hold the government to their side of the line.

    • JoshO October 7, 2016, 12:10 pm

      “If you have nothing to hide then why need privacy?” Are you serious? You’re either a complete mor0n or someone who doesn’t really own guns here to stir the pot. Either way, find a deep body of water and walk into it.

    • Ron October 7, 2016, 12:22 pm

      So, then, I guess you won’t mind a weekly, or daily, check of the inside of your home, just in case, right?
      No warrant needed, since you have nothing to hide.
      Wake up. You are helping THEM, not yourself.

    • DBM October 7, 2016, 2:25 pm

      I’ve been to a lot of gun shows and I have yet to see hate paraphernalia at any of them. And you consider anti Obama speech as hate speech? Who are you to deny people the right of freedom of speech? Hitler, Stalin, and Mao did that too.

      Also ask yourself why ICE is so hot on tracking people at gun shows when the US gov’t is shipping arms to narco-terrorists and ICE itself has no interest in apprehending illegal’s or sending them back home. This is just building a data base of people who probably own guns.

    • Mahatma Muhjesbude October 7, 2016, 2:59 pm

      uh, Pete? You, um, don’t hate anybody? Anybody at all? If you don’t, I’ll call one of my old grad school chums at the Vatican and we’ll get you in queue for Sainthood?

      But if you’re like the rest of mortal humanity, I’ll assure you that I’ll stand for your 1st Amendment right to hate. And by the way, so-called hate crimes, for your Constitutional edification, are considered by some legal scholars to be Un-Constitutional in terms of being legal charges in and of themselves. So I would bet you have to ‘hate’ something or somebody, don’t you? Which would put you hypocritically in the same category that you want to have the police ‘investigate’ at gun shows?

      And as far as being so arrogantly certain that you have nothing to hide as a ‘law abiding citizen’, I will guarantee with a considerable financial backing as a wager that if you give me and my team a few weeks we will find something–along with something you ‘hate’ that might be very very interesting in your past, that your mind may have mercifully defaulted to amnesia on, and likely even something more current, due the the fact that most people commit some kind of technically illegal act at least once a week, which according to a study by Professor John Baker there’s almost no one over the age of 18 who cannot be indicted for some type of federal or local crime if enough scrutiny descends upon them. And not just a misdemeanor. (also see L.Gordon Grovits’ 9/27/2009 Wall Street Journal article “You Commit Three Felonies a Day”)

      Plus by now in 2016, thanks to the Obama regime, there’s even MORE laws broken by people every day who aren’t even aware they are breaking them! Eventually that’s how they’ll disarm us because of the (against the cruel and unusual punishment amendment) ’68 GCA making gun prohibition a permanent eternal punishment for a crime.

      AND, if you are one of the daily police state lottery winners where the cops randomly decide that they think you might possibly be guilty of something for some abstract but now court upheld absurdity that a cop can get a warrant just ‘because of his highly developed 6th sense based on former experience and training,’ and absolute articulable probable cause is NOT necessary in that case in order to home invade you, and they don’t find anything ‘criminal’… then they’ll just PLANT some drugs on your property for good cause! Especially if you live in an asset forfeiture seizure state. There’s even a police blog post instructing just how to do and get away with that.

      And although I can go on and on from first hand empirical knowledge of my colleagues and associates, I’ll end it with the biggy! If you were one of the too numerous humans to collate even for statistic reference anymore of being an 18 year old H.S. senior fucking your 16 year old high school Sophomore sweetheart ‘repeatedly’ (to use the case report jargon) and somebody who ‘wants’ you knew that, guess what? Consensual sex does not preclude indictment for Statutory Rape. Even a little Stanky Finger with a minor is a lesser but criminal enough act to make you have a real big ‘worries on your part’ LOL! And something you ‘might really want to hide’ if you were like most red blooded American young males in the country, depending upon your social status today? Unless you’re a homosexual (huh huh homma Saaxshul as they say down South), but then that might be something you might want to hide for some reason???

      So what about it Pete? Still think you absolutely have ‘nothing to hide’ in your life’?

  • Ken October 7, 2016, 11:13 am

    Nice to know, I’ll just Velcro my plates on and off my rig…

  • Richard October 7, 2016, 11:10 am

    Criminals might also be recording the license plate numbers of attendees at gun shows for future potential burglaries. They do this at coin shows. Sometimes people are followed home as well.

  • Jim Cozzi October 7, 2016, 10:47 am

    Better yet take an UBER there and back.
    Here’s my code NURTW for $15 free from me for first time users. Enjoy!

  • stellerseaeagle October 7, 2016, 10:37 am

    Gee, you say this like it’s a bad thing. If you’re not smuggling arms to drug lords, I don’t think you have anything to worry about

    • Jake October 7, 2016, 12:06 pm

      They already know that we are not breaking laws at gun shows. So, the question becomes why do this when they already know that?
      Ever consider that the proven criminals, who have run guns to Mexico and ISIS and stolen and destroyed subpoenaed evidence, maintained private computers handling government info in their homes etc are from the government? They are the criminals. You who” have nothing to hide” are the intended future victims. Get your heads out of your fannies, you innocent innocents!

      • stellerseaeagle October 8, 2016, 1:07 am

        You need to loosen that tin foil hat.

    • jake d October 7, 2016, 2:00 pm

      Try thinking a little more before you offer your 2 cents. I’m sure you think monitoring the internet, drones and the DHS is ok too.

      • stellerseaeagle October 8, 2016, 1:09 am

        You think you know what I’m thinking? Really?

  • Norm Fishler October 7, 2016, 9:56 am

    I have been an enthusiastic gun show attendee since the 1960’s and have no intention of staying home because of NWO types who infuse paranoia into the air. Consider that ever since that first gun you ever bought over the counter at an FFL holder’s establishment or table at a gun show, that gun’s serial # (along with every subsequent firearms purchase) is tattooed on your ass for life (or longer if you have heirs). Gun show within driving distance happening this weekend? Go and enjoy! Why should we, the honest firearms owners and users, be beaten into submission because of politician criminals who break the law with impunity, and then shift the blame to us?

    • Joe McHugh October 7, 2016, 1:29 pm

      Norm Fisher, you are enabling tyranny! What is wrong with you! My neighbor “Bob” belongs to a gun club. Occasionally Bob and his buddy “Jim” decide to buy a firearm. Bob buys a rifle after passing the NICS check, and Jim buys a shotgun after passing the same background check.

      After returning to their cars they exchange firearms and settle the difference in cash. Do I have to say that each guy purchased the gun that the other guy really wanted? Why did Bob and Jim go through this Kabuki Dance when all they had to do was buy the gun they wanted in the first place? This is why, the government loses control of any firearms sold after market, because there is no requirement to fill out a Federal form # 4473, a form that must be archived for 20 years.

      Later on, Bob or Jim might want to sell their gun to “Bill”, a person who could be a complete stranger. Of course neither a NICS check, or the form #4473 is not required for that either. Question: Why is the government so interested in the details, such as the serial number of a privately owned firearm? Crime Fighting? Don’t make me laugh! Violent criminals get guns by stealing them, or buying them on the Black Market.

      I maintain that almost all “trusted” representatives fear the guns in the hands of the people. These paragons of “honor” that may be legislators, administrators or justices, seek control over the people when it is the people who should rightly control those elite. All governments, even those of democracies, know that they cannot abuse the rights of an armed populace.

      The Founding Fathers experienced the injustice of the “lawful government” of their day. They risked the hangman’s noose to sign the Declaration of Independence. They also inscribed the Second Amendment into the Bill of Rights to ensure that the people had a means to maintain their independence from a government that might abuse their inherent rights.

      Watch your elected representatives like a hawk! Most of them become corrupted by power and money, two sides of the same coin. Most Americans regard the politicians with less confidence than that afforded used car salesmen, you know, as having the same sense of responsibility that the pedophiles have.

      ANY gun control law, regulation or restriction is a infringement on the rights of competent, law-abiding adult citizens of the United States. All such laws should be repealed and replaced by a single law that states “It is against the law to threaten, injure or kill any innocent citizen of America.” A subsection would state “It is against the law to knowingly contribute to the access of a firearm by violent criminals or dangerous psychotics,”

      Is there any reader who is still confused about this matter? Come on liberals, here is your chance to be obtuse once again.

      • Mahatma Muhjesbude October 7, 2016, 3:22 pm

        Well said, Joe! saved me some time from my usual rants on this topic. They also have cameras recording inside the gunshows. And the FBI has new and very Constitutionally dangerous face recognition and extreme ‘crime prevention’ algorithms to go along with it which violates and rapes every single aspect of the 4th/A.

        And since ‘nobody has anything to hide’ the government takes full advantage of that to KNOW absolutely everything that is none of their fucking legal business! Unless you are a complete suck ass regime sycophant and in psycopathic abject denial of the undeniable fact that virtually no gun laws prevent, deter, stop, or otherwise do anything of value to stop violence, then these leftists Fascist minions would have the epiphany that there can only be one logical rationale for regime sponsored OCD gun control movement.

        And that’s to make it impossible for an American Revolution style 2nd Amendment resistance to develop into response to a fully concentrated and directed Totalitarian State take over. Historically, All such Despotic regimes had to effectively disarm the public before hand. The gun grabbinggraffiti is on the shithouse wall! What more does anybody need to SEE!?

        It still amazes me, Joe, that so many people still aren’t clued in on that yet? I guess the Totalitarian social engineers are proud of their brainwashing. tactics.

        • Joe McHugh October 7, 2016, 7:35 pm

          Mahatma Muhjesbude, According to the NRA estimates there are well over 300 million firearms in private hands. There are at least 100 billion rounds of ammunition stored with those arms. The Democrats and the RINOs understand this fact and are moving to regulate gun ownership nearly out of existence. It’s too late in the game for these would-be tyrants to locate and confiscate private firearms, even the “dangerous looking ones”.

          Some gun-owning citizens threaten to violently resist any government effort to seize firearms after enough gun owners have been identified by various means. This would be a effort in futility, and such people would be wiped out
          one by one.

          Never the less, something wicked, this way comes. If you scan the horizon you might see the dark clouds of the approaching mortal storm. This is what will bring that storm to crash over all of us. At some point, the games that the government is playing with our money system will cause the people to lose their full faith and credit in the dollar. The growing national debt will also convince the other world economies to abandon the dollar as the preferred medium of value for international trade. That will set the stage for the awful, and inevitable horror that follows. .

          The debasement of the dollar will cause a complete economic collapse. This will disrupt the infrastructure and that will initiate food and energy riots. Like some awful game of dominoes, worse events will follow. The government will attempt to suppress the riots and there will be blood.

          Did I mention the guns and ammunition that are in private hands? The Upheaval will be short lived, and the surviving leaders of the tyranny will discover what the splintered posts set before the brick walls are for. The liberal rank and file will be running for their lives like rats looking for a hole. The people in the Armed Forces? They will honor their oaths to support and defend the Constitution and stand down, or even to turn their weapon systems against the jack-booted thugs of the government. The “leaders” in the government will have lost all of the authority that the Constitution gave them when they dishonor their own oaths to support that document.

          Not to worry, there is still time left before the economic collapse. We have time to bring out the lawn chairs, grab a cold one and watch the parade of liberals and the tax-suckers march down the road to their socialist Utopia called Perdition. Our direction, as a country, is “written on the wall”. After the “party” is over, we, the people, will change the Constitution to include term limits, balanced budgets, voter I.D., secure borders, etc , etc. That should give us another 227 years as a Representative Republic that is less susceptible to the corruption and intrigue that is now rife in Washington, D.C.

          Muhatma, I hope that I have helped you to be more cheerful about what is coming if the majority of the voters don’t experience a sudden epiphany soon.

  • MOhunter October 7, 2016, 9:01 am

    Not that I have anything to worry about but I won’t be going to anymore gun shows…

    • Boone October 7, 2016, 11:07 am

      That’s just they want.

  • Onigoroshi October 7, 2016, 8:24 am

    This isn’t really news in my neck of the woods. I’ve seen cars with plate readers driving up and down isles of parking lots of Ohio gun shows for at least 4 years. Some of the cars weren’t marked LEO vehicles either. It does beg the question why? Surely there aren’t that many illegals attempting to buy guns in Ohio, especially when 98% of the attendees are English speaking white males.

  • Ric October 7, 2016, 8:00 am

    I have news for you. This is nothing new. How do you think the Feds knew Timothy McVeigh was at a Sandpoint Idaho gun show? The Feds have been doing this since the early 90s. I know they were doing this when Clinton slick Willy was in office. To prove that the Feds have been doing this for a long time, just look up any article that tells the whereabouts of Timothy McVeigh and you will see they knew he was at a gun show in Sandpoint Idaho. I know the Feds were doing this in the nineties because they would go to gun shows in North Idaho trying to get dirt on people selling guns because of the Aryan Nations in that area.
    So why is this being treated like it is something new, when it isn’t? Is the writer of this article that uninformed?

  • Brian October 7, 2016, 7:54 am

    Simply park your vehicle legally, strategically and cover your VIN and your tag. There is nothing illegal about that and then simply uncover your plate when you leave.

    • Rick October 7, 2016, 1:48 pm

      My thoughts exactly. With a caution park on private property. In California if parked on public streets tags and VINs have to be visible even if legally parked.

  • Gingerbaker October 7, 2016, 7:42 am

    So, your breathless *lead article* about the Feds and gun shows – where YOU might not want to drive your car to a gunshow!!!! – is not about a secret evil policy, but a local limited effort to catch Mexican gun smugglers.

    And yet you say: ” nothing would have kept them from continuing the practice from 2010 until now.” Yeah – and NOTHING says they, in fact, did so, right? That was just some bullshit you decided would read up all hot and spicy.

    But it’s Clinton (???not Obama – he’s the President right now, you propagandist) who you portray here as being dishonest about gun shows. What a crock of shit article.

    Just like all your breathless “Vote for the Republican, Democrats want to take your guns” bullshit.

    • Veritas October 7, 2016, 8:00 am

      You are a clueless idiot. You either have no idea how government works or a simpleton liar.

      • James Troy October 7, 2016, 9:04 am

        I gotta agree. The douchbaggery is strong with this Gingerwanker

      • 57Chevy October 7, 2016, 12:08 pm

        He’s a stupid, ignorant LIB-TARD!!!!!

    • Alan October 7, 2016, 9:42 am

      Since you’re an expert, by all means explain the idea behind the ‘Fast and Furious’ program.
      Tell the poor confused fools on here (me too!) how THAT program had ANYTHING to do with capturing bad guys when they didn’t bother to follow up?
      People like you have their head buried in the sand, not to mention your totally inept view of our Constitution.
      Have you even read ANY of the Federalist Papers????
      Please explain how a Govt. agency endowed by Congress with ONLY keeping records became a Police unit?
      The BATFE was NEVER meant to be any thing other than a record keeping agency, yet they bust down doors and ruin peoples lives without even notifying the local ELECTED Police officials.
      Bullshit?!? You should know, you’re the expert here.

    • williampenn October 7, 2016, 10:14 am

      Ginger, you are exactly the type of subject our totalitarian rulers have been hoping to create over the past few decades.

    • Ron October 7, 2016, 12:25 pm

      Except, you idiot, she IS dishonest about gunshows.
      You, sir, need to get your head out of where it’s stuffed, and into the sunshine…

    • JoshO October 7, 2016, 12:26 pm

      Are you insinuating that you do not believe that Democrats want to take your guns? Have you been in a come since the 80s? Those Dems that aren’t foaming at the mouth to disarm the populace are at very least complicit with the plan. If you vote for a democrat you might as well get rid of your guns and make your peace with being a victim like they do.

  • srsquidizen October 7, 2016, 7:34 am

    Yeah if Hilliar gets elected anyone who attends gun shows will be deemed a terror suspect and put on a secret “no-buy” list that can only be challenged by spending big bucks on lawyers who specializes in such. More disarmament of the non-wealthy by politicians who call themselves…”progressive”(?)

    In this case it’s a no-brainer to outsmart them if you don’t have a big load of guns to take in or out. Just park some place that’s not in the main parking lot of the gun show and walk there. The walk will do you good in more ways than one this time.

  • Michael Sam Krause October 7, 2016, 7:29 am

    And they let Hillary off Scott Free, a proven felon and leader of a criminal enterprise The Clinton Foundation. The FBI has evolved into the KGB or Gestapo and uses their tactics without regard to the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. What have we become…..? I can’t wait until Obama becomes a Supreme Court Justice!

  • Dan October 7, 2016, 6:39 am

    Illegal surveillance, illegal wiretapping, illegal campaign financing, illegal … And we’re still not outraged over the hunt for Snowden! Someday, historians will describe him as a hero, and the rest of us as apathetic sheep!

    • Doug Kincaid October 7, 2016, 9:09 pm

      Sir, Very nice observation! Snowden gave up a $200K a year job in Hi,AND HIS FREEDOM and a year later its page 12 news. GMAFB!! A bunch of McDonold coffee shop commandos here,for the most part!

  • RetNavet October 7, 2016, 6:27 am

    What kind of low-life does it take to be a cop following orders from above to turn on fellow law-abiding citizens?

    • Json Gyver October 7, 2016, 9:16 am

      Exactly the same kind that will be kicking down our doors when the confiscation starts.

      • patriot October 7, 2016, 5:07 pm

        that’s gonna change real fast once their body count starts to pile up,,wont be long before the average cop or Fed wont think his life is worth following those orders,,

  • roger October 7, 2016, 6:09 am

    Who cares. I buy my guns legals and fill out a 4473 so the government know what guns I own or can find out. I have has a CCW for over 45 years which shows up if I am ever pulled over on the police computer check and I even had a FFL decades ago. I am on record.

    • Eab October 7, 2016, 7:54 am

      Well put, too much paranoia….. if you are buying your guns legally you are already on record

    • Mahatma Muhjesbude October 7, 2016, 3:26 pm

      Yeah, Roger, When your grandchild someday asks you, Was there really a time when we had guns, Grandpa? And even something called ‘Freedom?'”

      Tell him “Who Cares”.

      • patriot October 7, 2016, 5:10 pm

        well put,,

    • Tom Horn October 8, 2016, 10:15 am

      Yeah, Roger,
      While your wiping your ass with our 4th Amendment, try not to get any on our 2nd Amendment.

  • Larry Amati October 7, 2016, 5:42 am

    Don’t forget, It was our government who sent weapons into Mexico.One of those guns killed a border agent.
    Maybe they should look at their own license plates.

  • Tom Horn October 7, 2016, 5:27 am

    Just embed a micro chip in my neck, and get it over with. Face it, George Orwell’s, ‘1984,’ is here.

  • No body October 7, 2016, 5:24 am

    They only need to look in the mirror and find out there the first one to break the law

  • Mike Cornett October 7, 2016, 5:11 am

    Taking license plate numbers at a gun show. It sounds like the Gestapo to me. They should be ashamed
    “Don’t tread on me”, you SOB’s. I know it is illegal for them to do this. Next, they will be in my bedroom.
    You are over stepping yourselves. Use your brain. Really think about what you are doing.

  • Joseph Vanchieri October 7, 2016, 4:12 am

    This is just more of the unconstitutional over reach of our Federal Gov.. For allcof us that go to gun shows, keep an eye out for anyone taking pictures of you license plate or vehicle. Repirt it to the County Sheriffs Dept. Most will be more than glad to question the actions of local police if they believe they are doing somethung wrong. If pissible get a badge number or car number of the LE doing the dirty deed.

  • DRAINO October 6, 2016, 8:45 am

    While it is a nauseating thought that our govt would use our local LE’s (and time and money) to survey law abiding citizens….it’s really no surprise. Instead they could be out catching REAL criminals. Ah!…but then, if we actually cleaned up the streets and minimized crime, what need would we have for them? More crime = big govt. Without big govt, all these corrupt politicians would have to find ACTUAL jobs and pay taxes like us normal Americans. Heaven FORBID!!!

  • SuperG October 4, 2016, 3:45 pm

    Behavior like this, by our own government, causes me to soften my stance on Snowden. He in essence, broke the law for his countrymen. Now we read a compelling reason to suspect he was justified in doing so. Our own government, aided and abetted by local police, is violating our privacy. And just what happens to that data when they are done with it?

    • Bob October 7, 2016, 3:10 am

      “And just what happens to that data when they are done with it?” What makes you think they will ever be “done with it”?

      Like the no fly list, once your in the database, you in. Once your government and local law enforcement, for that matter decides “you are bad” they rationalize it is OK to do what ever they please “to you”.

      After all, in their minds they are the good guys and you are NOT one of the good guys so it is perfectly fine to abuse your civil rights in the name of justice.

      Just face it, the patriot act was the end of individual rights in Amerika. The government no longer has to respect any individual’s so called rights.

      • Tar Heel Realist October 7, 2016, 6:09 am

        “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” – B. Franklin(?)

      • roger October 7, 2016, 6:11 am

        Once you buy a gun from a FFL and fill our 4473 the gun is registered to you for life.

        • Dave Emery October 7, 2016, 2:12 pm

          I buy mine from the BATFE. They’re the best gun dealers to go to if you want stolen and unregistered guns. Thanks Fellas! God Bless America.

      • Veritas October 7, 2016, 8:04 am

        That’s exactly what SuperG was saying. “Done with it” refers to the claim that the collection is merely the current program of identifying people who cross international borders. When done with that program, what will they do with that data?

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