Judge Upholds 7N6 Ammunition Ban, Calls Suit ‘Disingenuous’

7N6 was originally developed for the AK-74 but phased out for more modern ammo. Russian stockpiles made it one of the cheapest cartridges on the market until it was classified as an armor-piercing handgun round by the ATF. (Photo )

7N6 was originally developed for the AK-74 family of guns. More recent ammo designs have since replaced it. Russian stockpiles made it one of the cheapest cartridges on the U.S. market until it was classified as an armor-piercing handgun round by the ATF. (Photo: Vitaly V. Kuzmin)

A federal judge is upholding the ATF’s ban on importing a specific ammunition cartridge. The judge agreed with the ATF’s decision to classify 7N6 surplus ammunition as armor-piercing handgun ammunition and, therefore, ban it.

The cartridge, 7N6, is — or was — a popular product among AK and some AR rifle enthusiasts. A military surplus cartridge, 7N6 was dirt cheap, one of the least expensive intermediate rifle cartridges on the market.

In the spring of 2014, the ATF argued that it was an armor-piercing handgun round and blocked it from all future imports. For shooters, this was an especially bold move as the cartridge does not conform to the ATF’s own guidelines. According to the ATF, an armor-piercing handgun cartridge must contain:

  • A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or,
  • A full jacketed projectile larger than .22-caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

While the 7N6 projectile is part steel, it only has a mild steel core and the steel only makes up part of the bullet. Secondly, being a 5.45x39mm round, 7N6 uses a .22-caliber bullet. And finally, no production 5.45x39mm pistol has ever been commercially available — it’s a rifle cartridge, not a handgun cartridge.

Still, the fact the cartridge does have steel in its core and it’s possible to make pistols chambered for it was enough for the judge to uphold the ATF’s decision. The U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour handed down the ruling on Wednesday.

See Also: Appeals Court: SIG Muzzle Brake is Suppressor Component

Coughenour argued that because 7N6 bullets are capable of penetrating some types of body armor that the case, brought to the court by Washington-based P.W. Arms, Inc, was “disingenuous,” reports the Seattle Times. P.W. Arms filed suit in late 2015 after initially getting the approval to import at least 100 million rounds of the ammo. When the ATF banned 7N6, P.W. Arms argued that the move cost the company millions.

However, this is typical of all conventional rifle ammunition — most centerfire rifle ammo can penetrate some kind of armor. For example, armor rated for handgun rounds generally won’t stop any popular rifle rounds for hunting or self-defense. A bullet doesn’t need a special penetrating core to pass through steel plates if it’s got enough speed and mass.

And the steel insert in 7N6 isn’t there to improve the penetrating power of the bullet — it’s a cost-cutting measure. The Firearm Blog explains, saying that it “follows the Soviet practice established in the 1950s of using a steel core insert inside of a lead sheath, instead of a plain lead core. This design has the purpose of conserving lead for economic reasons, a critical concern during warfare.

“This style of core is made of very soft (and therefore inexpensive) mild steel and has been demonstrated in multiple different calibers to add no substantial armor piercing effect to a round versus lead-only cored steel-jacketed ammunition of otherwise similar design.”

In 2015 the ATF attempted to ban 5.56x45mm “Green Tip” ammunition for similar reasons. Due to overwhelming public and political outcry, the ATF chose not to classify the ammo as armor-piercing handgun ammunition.

{ 52 comments… add one }
  • Mr. Sparkles September 13, 2016, 4:06 pm

    I was not aware that judges were allowed to sit the bench without the ability to read the English language. It is obvious that Judge John C. Coughenour is incapable of reading and understanding as this cartridge does not meet any of the conditions and law is not written with the intent that you pick individual words from one specification and ignore not only the rest of the specification but the intent of the specification. I hope Mr. Coughhenours teachers are not reading this as they would be ashamed of having passed him in freshman English.

  • Patriot August 24, 2016, 6:56 pm

    The Ninth Circuit Appeals Court always has an asinine opinion on matters pertaining to guns. Being in California, the court is obviously biased by idiots such as Gov. Brown, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer and other idiots such as Bloomberg, Schumer, Healey, governor of Oregon, and of course, Obama, Hillary and husband Billy.

    I have never understood why the people of California elect idiots such as Brown, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, etc. Maybe they like having their Constitutional rights taken away by idiots and the obnoxious members of the Court. Maybe someday the people will see the light and do something to stop the idiots, but I am not very optimistic about that happening.

    Sent from my iPad
    Network news people just don’t understand what can happen in real life. I saw about 2 minutes of HLN Robin Meade this morning and that was all I could tolerate. The news was about the Dems convention and the news tried to give the impression that the Dems are the nicest and most congenial people that have ever lived. The truth is the exact opposite. Dems are idiots that will do anything to accomplish their goals. They hate Republicans and would do whatever was necessary to get whatever they want. When they have a majority in Congress, Republicans are ignored. Some of the Dems are Obama, Hillary and Billy, Gov. Brown, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Bloomberg, Healey, etc. These idiots would be happy to take Constitutional rights from the people that have made the United States a great country. HLN and CNN try to show the Dems as the leaders of this country. If Hillary was elected, there is no way to know much civil violence could be a result of her actions. Face reality, she and the Dems want to change the Constitution and force Americans to live in a country where they must live by her rules. This seems to be the agenda of the news media.

  • loupgarous August 22, 2016, 8:37 pm

    Coughenour’s ruling was disingenuous and contrary to the intent of Congress. That one can make a “pistol” out of a semiautomatic rifle action to fire this cartridge and that its mild steel core can penetrate weak body armor are dangerous precedents which ought to be challenged on appeal. After all, the BATFE can just find “body armor” which in reality is not more ballistic resistant than a nylon vest (say, some of the Flectar German Army surplus load bearing vests popular in mail order war surplus) and reclassify every full metal jacketed round made as “armor piercing.”

    This is log-rolling by an obvious judicial activist to help the Obama administration write its own laws, perverting the true intent of Congress. It’s be worth voting for Trump if he’d take a firm stance against judicial and executive overreach like this.

  • Patriot August 21, 2016, 10:51 am

    This is obviously and absolutely another GUN CONTROL effort by the idiot Obama and the lies of obnoxious Democrats such as, Hillary and Billy, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Bloomberg, Brown, Harry Reid, Healey, etc. Why do voters want to elect the Dems listed above? Does it make any sense?
    Everyone, Republicans and Dems, who want to keep the Constitution as it is, Constitution based Supreme Court, and FREEDOM we have in the United States should vote FOR TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS and AGAINST CORRUPT HILLARY AND THE DEMS. HILLARY IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE AND SO IS BILLY!!!!

  • Gerald Mann August 20, 2016, 6:17 pm

    Problem is these Obama Mites go judge shopping and they pick one that knows little or nothing about the subject they want to get rid of ! So now that the last lead smelting plant in the United States has been forced to close by the feds because of emissions , it looks like we will have an ammo shortage again ! I guess George Serous is able to buy federal lawmakers , which I had thought might have a little more integrity then Obozo , but I guess since they let Clinton but the FBI , nothing will be safe unless get impeach Obama and get Trump elected !

  • Chuck Roast August 20, 2016, 10:06 am

    Well, I guess now that this leftist Jurist has ruled a steel round is “armor piercing” goose hunting is now over. (Steel shot is required by the Feds to hunt ducks and geese).
    Jeez. I understand Federal Judges and Supreme Court Justices are “lifetime” appointments”, but the Constitutional Article which states that goes on to say “…when acting on good behavior”.
    I guess someone in the House needs to realize the sentence doesn’t end with “appointment”, but goes on to require they act on good behavior. If not (which most 9th circuit Judges and half the Supreme Court “community organizers” posing as Justices) they are to be impeached by the House, and voted to be removed by the Senate. Our House members need to uphold their oath of offices and “…preserve, protect and defend the Constitution” by doing their jobs and reversing this idiocy. One man autocratic rule was supposed to have been resolved for free men at that little signing of the Magna Carta at Running Meade.

  • Peter August 20, 2016, 9:10 am

    Information in this article is confusing. There are AR and AK platforms being sold as handguns because of short barrels and foldable or no shoulder stocks.
    Ammunition for these pistols is in rifle calibers.
    Steel in the bullet, particularly steel core is the exact definition of armor piercing rounds. And hadn’t that been banned for a while now?
    Using this in a handgun does generate the energy and mass to defeat body armor even though it was made for use in rifles.
    None of us like cheap ammo being banned but this ammo appears to meet the criteria of armor piercing handgun ammo.
    Perhaps the gun makers should stop making the AR and AK platform so called handguns. They are a heavy and unconcealable curiosity that may have actually called attention to a lot more ammo. Formerly seen as exclusively for rifles, now that there are handguns capable of firing it, it may also come under ATF scrutiny. There is a constant search for a single cartridge for rifle and pistol all the way back to cowboy days but we aren’t there yet.

  • Beachhawk August 20, 2016, 12:54 am

    We should dump the ATF along with the IRS. ATF won’t be happy until they regulate the firearms industry out of business. I heard that if elected, one of Hillary Clinton’s first tasks will be to appoint Lois Lerner to head the IRS where she can continue to harass and intimidate conservative non-profits.

  • Donald Silvernail August 19, 2016, 8:42 pm

    “A full jacketed projectile larger than .22-caliber designed ….. of the projectile.”

    This cartridge isn’t even .22 caliber, let alone “larger than .22 caliber. So what gives? I guess the judge doesn’t know much about firearms – of course that didn’t stop him from feeling qualified to render an opinion.

  • fritz bousigschouer August 19, 2016, 7:41 pm

    the situation is this, in russia, bulgaria and other places they have tons of this ammo that they need to get rid off, for get money for new ammo and if we, free us people, do not buy that and use it for ouer advantage guess who will use it instead for theyr advantage? terrorists, criminals & crooks. and one day that will affect us in usa as well.

    these eastern people who have that ammo are no fools like the europeans that rather pay for destroy the ammo and gear instead of resell it to make a money out. they gona resell it to whoever will buy it, criminal or not and then the rest of the planet has the trouble to deal with! and all that cause of that great judge and his wrong understanding of law & how this ammo works.

  • fritz bousigschouer August 19, 2016, 7:34 pm

    the atf has no absolute legal right to ban anything – but we, the us people, have the right to ban the atf. its about time any missuse is stopped. it is complete clear that this ammo is not armor piercing because of that soft steel core – period. all it is is a disarming of the free us people. cause that was a great deal modern ammo / rifle combo many free us people would have legally armed themself with that cheap deal and now they can not. it is a shame and needs be made possible again!

  • bob h August 19, 2016, 5:51 pm

    It was legislation that gave the BATFE authority to decide what ammunition is or is not legal without any objective standards or requiring any real world testing. Contacting your legislators to convince them to require those standards and real world testing would be a much more useful than simply complaining about BATFE decisions in online forums such as this one.
    Those objective standards would first and foremost include a minimum number of handguns chambering the ammunition that can be documented as actually being in private hands. As it stands now all the BATFE must say is that those handguns are “available” even if that availability is mostly theoretical. For example, over 100 McLaren F1s were produced but that doesn’t mean they are “available” does it?
    What do I mean by real world testing? Simply this- before banning any ammunition as “armor piercing” the BATFE would be required to purchase the ammunition in the civilian marketplace and fire it at body armor from mass produced firearms also acquired in the civilian marketplace while videotaping the results. Legislation should spell out specifics of the testing- firing distances, type of body armor, number off rounds fired, etcetera- and spell out what those results must be before the BATFE is given authority to ban the tested ammunition.
    If this type of legislation became law while keeping the “ammunition commonly used for sporting purposes” exception we wouldn’t see things like the 7n6 ban.

    • Dr Motown August 20, 2016, 10:03 am

      You’ve touched on a much bigger problem than just ammo bans: the LAZINESS of our legislators to actually do their jobs. Much of the laws and regulations passed today give wide interpretative latitude to unelected bureaucrats because Congressmen are too stupid and lazy to research issues themselves or to keep up with changing technologies. Easier for them to pass a law that lingers around ad infinitum without any scrutiny, and let paid bureaucrats “update” the meaning while taxpayers get stuck with funding ad nauseum.

  • hey August 19, 2016, 3:59 pm

    These actions are designed to get rid of the shooting culture by making it more and more expensive to shoot as each decade passes! Shooting is now much more expensive than golfing (a rich man’s sport)

  • Eric Holder August 19, 2016, 2:54 pm

    Do you think that me being stronger or faster has anything to do with me beating you? Do you think that is air you are breathing? Do you think that talking is actually going to change anything in this place?

  • Blackey August 19, 2016, 2:40 pm

    Wonder what administration appointed the judge that ruled on this case, and if he has actually ever fired a gun.

  • BIGKIELBASSA August 19, 2016, 12:25 pm

    Bans didn’t stop,Joe “rum runner ” Kennedy during prohibition . Sounds to me like a good opportunity to make millions like he did . Funny they want to stop the legal importation of commerce but not the flow of hoards of illegals and potential terrorists . But then again, the liberal communist funded democrats think we gun owners are terrorists . 😡

  • Jake August 19, 2016, 12:21 pm

    This is now where I said this would wind up when manufacturers decided to go for the immature idiot class of gun owners and made AK and AR “pistols.” Worthless and stupid, the existence of this junk made by those who know better has let the commie camel nose under the tent.

    • Jeff Knox August 19, 2016, 5:30 pm

      Actually Jake, this started with NRA cutting a deal with Mario Biaggi back in the 80’s to allow the law banning “armor-piercing” bullets, and not at least ensuring that the “designed and intended for use in a handgun” was included in both sections of the bill.
      This is what happens when we try to mitigate a bad bill rather than block it outright, and it’s why gun owners cannot be “reasonable” about any of these laws that our opponents keep trying to pass.
      Jeff Knox, http://www.FirearmsCoalition.org

  • Mike Watkins August 19, 2016, 12:18 pm

    I don’t foresee a second American Revolution. Millenials are too fat and happy. Don’t think us old guys can carry it off on our own. The US will soon be just another failed socialist state like those in Europe, overrun by immigrants, particularly muslim.

    I’ve got plenty of guns and ammo to help arm any of the unprepared who might come asking to join our cause, but sadly I think demand will be negligible.

    Hillary et al will spin it like we’re all just mentally disturbed domestic terrorists, and the younger generations will swallow the Kool-Ade and heave sighs of relief when U.N. forces mop up the last of us.

    • Alan August 23, 2016, 10:48 am

      Hmm, just gonna lay down and die, eh?
      You ARE aware that the Revolutionary War was actually quite unpopular in the beginning, aren’t you?
      Less than 1/3 of the population was for it.
      Remember the Declaration’s tone? “and accordingly, all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed”.
      So it is INDEED your “duty” to right the wrongs even if it means you have to drag the others kicking and screaming to their destiny.
      It’s for their own good.
      The fate of mankind was NEVER determined by the weak of will, but by men and women of action and vision, even when that vision was not shared by others.

  • BUURGA August 19, 2016, 12:15 pm

    Who in the hell is the ATF to be banning ANYTHING?

  • Bobo August 19, 2016, 12:05 pm

    Saul Alinsky wrote in his manifesto that the first thing is to disarm the American people.

    • Phil Whitehead August 20, 2016, 12:06 am

      No, Sir.
      His first line was to control society, you must first control healthcare. His steps went on from there and his pet “student” has been following his mentor’s playbook to the letter.

  • Kaptinemo August 19, 2016, 11:38 am

    I can only hope that Trump is serious about curbing this nonsense. BATFE means only two things to me: Waco & ‘Fast and Furious’. Very clear signs of a bureaucracy that has been long out of control and needs to be reined in, if not totally disbanded. This economy cannot afford such agencies any longer, and now is the perfect time to trim the Fed budget by removing them. This de facto power grab by non-legislative, bureaucratic decree is only the latest reason why.

  • Gunny August 19, 2016, 11:00 am

    Lesson ,Vote Trump or we are COMPLETELY SCREWED!!!!

  • mtman2 August 19, 2016, 10:56 am

    Any regular deer cartridge would defeat just body armor. And even a 12gauge slug could be fatal from blunt force trauma by breaking tbe chest bones +/or stopping the heart.
    This incremental stair stepping is the statist’s way to eventually move that pistol standard to ALL ammo.
    This by reasoning that “Hey it’s lethal same as these ‘special’ pistol ammo’s so “we’ can+will regulate it also”.
    Precedent by precedent precept by precept all rationalized by the statist mind sets appointed by Liberals.
    By that standard of rationalization anything potentially lethal in your hands, even a rock, will become a felony.

    This then can return us back to the English monarchial law that of just the thought of harm to the King was a death penalty. This as BLACKSTONE described as “being Hung til almost dead, then drawn and quartered in public.”
    This is what was depicted done to Mel Gibson in his film of Scottish freedom fighter William Wallace in “Braveheart” as he cried out “Freedom” just before finally dying ~!

  • Larry August 19, 2016, 10:40 am

    the only reason “we the people” need Armor piecing Rounds is because the Government has chosen to hide behind Armor. What part of “infringed” don’t they understand.

    • DanGoodShot August 19, 2016, 10:59 am

      They understand it. They just don’t give a rats @$$ about it.

  • Deadmeat99 August 19, 2016, 10:33 am

    And this is why the person occupying the White House is critical: placement of judges at the Federal level. They can pass whatever ridiculous edicts and laws they want, because when you go to challenge them, their allies in the Judiciary will discard logic/reason/law and let the ridiculous law stand. The Executive and Judiciary branch are now united. We no longer have a Constitutional, lawful government.

  • AD August 19, 2016, 10:24 am

    One more judge whose name will be remembered when we go into anarchy.
    For the patriot, these Brown Shirt pawns are nothing but traitors to “we the people” and tools of the bureaucrats who rule without permission. God help them when they actually bring about their END GAME.

  • Mark Searcy August 19, 2016, 10:05 am

    I understand everybody’s anger at the government and obama and a lowing him to get a way with everything, but as the man said why is nothing being done to stop them.There has to be a point where we go to our elected officials and say we put you in office to represent us and our views and you are not getting the job done.If you want to stay in office you need to stop all this mess and protect our rights and constitution. Stop setting on your backsides and allowing immigrants and anti Americans to change our laws to suit them and infringing on our rights as AMERICANS.These people don’t want to be Americans they want to make our country like the country they left to come here. If the countries where they came from and the laws were so great why did they leave? You know they can leave the same way as they came.Anyone that has come to our country illegal should not have any rights what so ever. Many years ago our families came to America the right way,legal way.They did not complain that America needed to change.They wanted to be AMERICAN’S and learn to speak,read,right the English language. They were proud to become AMERICAN’S AND EXCEPT OUR LAWS AND THE CONSTITUTION.We need people to stand up and be AMERICANS and start taking our country back and make it the GREAT NATION IT ONCE WAS.We have allowed these people to get in office and make changes and new laws and take our rights and our country over. When is enough ENOUGH! WE NEED TO STAND UP AND BE AMERICANS AGAIN AND TAKE PRIDE IN OUR COUNTRY NO MATTER WHAT THE COST. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS DID SO! IF THEY HAD NOT WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY!

    • Max August 19, 2016, 9:28 pm

      I cannot do it alone. The bureaucrat’s don’t have the testicles to help anyone not in their groove. If anything is going to be done, we the people will have to hit the streets and handle it ourselves. Vote out the crud that has been in offices for ever. Put new blood in the office’s and as Donald says, take back America now or you will be fighting it alone…. Then whom will you call on? Get off of your @$$e$ and take control. Otherwise your giving it away to all the motel horse jockey’s and convenience mart camel ropers. Buy your fuel from them and feel the same people that will be killing you and your children and grandchildren in the next 5 years..
      Why are you supporting these rag heads?

  • Michael Davidson August 19, 2016, 6:52 am

    Krukd kily rotten lying clinton will be appointed just like buma was, system is definitely rigged from the inside, muslims will definitely seize control of this once great nation, believe that.

  • Jeffrey Turner August 19, 2016, 5:38 am


    • BigC August 19, 2016, 7:24 am

      Everything you said about manufacturing is wrong, it actually is gunsmithing.

      • Russ August 19, 2016, 11:20 am

        BigC, maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but there are some recent “executive order” type directives from the Obama administration that outline what Mister Turner was referring to. They’re attempting to classify gunsmithing as manufacturing, which would effectively change the definition of the word “manufacture”. In a sentence, they’re attempting to put gunsmiths out of business, just like they abused the banking system to put undue burdens on gun shops a little over a year ago. This manufacturer /gunsmith debacle was featured in Forbes magazine just a little over a week or so ago.

        Link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2016/08/08/now-the-obama-administration-is-after-gunsmiths/#1177c3f26642

        Scary stuff if you ask me. Same s@#! different day with our current TIO (Tyrant In Office).

      • Phil Whitehead August 20, 2016, 12:24 am

        No, what he said is not incorrect. This comes from the ITAR Regulations that the State Dept. is being used by Obama’s gun control “under-the-radar-policy” that he has been cooking up for a long time. It’s connected to the Trade Treaty that Congress refused to ratify, but our “Communist-In-Chief” is having the State Dept. act as if it were, and write rules that THEY are enforcing on ALL manufacturers, INCLUDING Gunsmiths, Ammunition Manufacturers, etc, by stating that if they use automated equipment, or tools like drills, lathes, or drill presses to “Improve the accuracy, performance or range of a firearm, then they must pay the ITAR Fees, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO EXPORT, AND IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT SIZE COMPANY IT IS!!! The fee is: *****$2150.00 a YEAR*****
        They want to drive all of us out of business, because if you don’t comply, it’s retroactive, and a SINGLE act, meaning drill ONE hole for a scope mount, and it can be a
        $1,000,000.00 FINE!!!!
        Bullshit?? You bet…

  • Rick August 19, 2016, 5:25 am

    Looks like the judge is banking on Hillary to be the next president….

  • Itzrach August 19, 2016, 3:49 am

    The film “The BATFE Fails The Test” from JPFO shows how Stupid and corrupt the BATFE employees are. Unfortunately due to the BATFE Gestapo Tactics they were the cause for Savage Arms being forced to file for Bankruptcy.

  • FAAQ2 August 15, 2016, 6:57 pm

    The ATF Should be the name of a bar not an Agency !

    • SGT.-N August 19, 2016, 9:05 am

      Good one! “Tonight’s special at Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms is two for one on Bud Lights. We’ll match any specials at Send Lawyers Guns & Money”.

  • SuperG August 15, 2016, 6:41 pm

    Wow ATF, what a good way to make yourself appear retarded to the world. Of course, after witnessing the competency of Sebelius, I knew there were more of you lurking about D.C.

  • Fred Ziffle August 15, 2016, 8:53 am

    Who is standing up against these criminals in DC? Each and every one of these traitorous lairs swore to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign or domestic,” so how is it even possible that they can openly attempt to destroy our Constitution, stripping Americans of their Constitutional rights, with near impunity? Why aren’t hordes of true American patriots clambering in to the streets with torches and pitchforks and freedom-ensuring, privately owned firearms, defending the very document of ideals that makes us Free Americans? The Founding Fathers would be rallying the patriots to send these “domestic enemies” to where it is hot. But sadly, it appears that we Americans are going to go out with a whimper, as our own federal government dismantles our Constitution, strips us of every right, freedom and liberty, without opposition.

    • JonDorough August 19, 2016, 5:28 am

      First, you should turn off spell check, your writing skills are far beyond those whom it is designed for.
      Second, your proposals are sound but, if we use torches and pitchforks, the ATF will set thier sights on them. Before we see what’s happening, I will have to muck my horse stalls with the butt of my inoperable AR-15.

    • Michael Davidson August 19, 2016, 6:46 am

      Millennials don’t care about guns, old school like us are a dying breed,we will slowly fade away. Big brother will win because father time is on their side.

      • Sgt. Pop August 19, 2016, 10:29 am

        Michael, your right, don’t like to admit the fact, but your right. I’m over 70, I know i’ve lived through the best times of hunting, shooting, firearms collecting etc….. Passed the experiences on to my two sons, however of my 11 grandchildren, only 3 have such interest. Just too many other things pulling on them now I guess. Anyhow, we can’t give up the good fight because in 76 if they did, there would be no Constitution or 2nd Amendment. “Fight, Fight, the dying of the light”

    • Pontificant August 19, 2016, 9:47 am

      The globalist intent, through the media and public education, is to make exercising certain rights uncool. As folks grow, they are used to not exercising those rights and are indifferent to when they are infringed.

      Each generation points to the next and complains; it’s a right of passage. I suggest we reach out to the generations following ours and introduce them to the right, recognized by the 2nd Amendment. Once they appreciate this right, their indifference cannot be used against us.

  • DRAINO August 13, 2016, 10:06 am

    The govt can have hollow point ammo to use against us, but we can’t have cheap ammo to defend ourselves from them. Hmm…..talk about a contradiction. Its all a move to try to out price all ammo. Make it so expensive that people can’t afford it. Things need to turn around in this country. The govt should fear us, we shouldn’t fear it. But if you “anti-Trump” pansies don’t get over yourselves and get out and vote Republican, this is what you are dooming our country to. Things will get much worse and it will be YOUR FAULT if Hitlary gets elected. Politicians have gotten us where we are. We don’t need more politicians. Trump is NOT a politician. Don’t expect him to act like one. He will clean out the politicians(both Republican sand Democrat) who are poisoning our country. But get out and vote Republican or our country is doomed.

    • packman August 19, 2016, 5:07 am

      ATF should be a store not a gov. agency. Clinton will be our next pres. Trump is his unfortunately his own worst enemy. We will look back and remember when they banned 7n6 and think ” them was the good old days ” before the GOV. got out off hand and started banning all things that go bang. Pity my “our” kids and grand kids , the AMERICA that we know is about to disappear.

      • Dan C August 19, 2016, 2:14 pm

        Very Sad but true. I have great fear for my kids and grandkids future, and Obama is at the core of it. If, and I hope NOT, gets elected it will be the end At my age I’ve never seen a situation as important as this next election. It is going to set to tone for the future like no other since FDR. I have more fear of my gov’t now than ever, and I lived thru the 60’s and the distrust we had then. If Hillary is elected all is lost, and there will be no recovery, we will be buried. Within 30 years an EMP will be set off, and lay waste to all electronics, and this current generation will be lost They will pick up what arms they can get to protect themselves and think they are in a video game. All will think they are riflemen when in reality they are cooks. All I can do is try and make my kids and grandkids riflemen.

    • Dave August 19, 2016, 8:35 am

      Draino, when push comes to shove, it doesn’t matter what’s illegal or not. Not even if they start confiscations. We can just take theirs. It’s how Castro armed most of his revolutionary soldiers. Just use that pocket .22 to pop one from behind and go Riddick (keep what you kill).

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