Kel-Tec SU16CA–The Ideal Compliant Pack Gun

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SU16 2193

Those of you who haven’t had the chance to put some rounds through a Kel-Tec SU16 are in for an experience. This lightweight polymer based rifle is one in a growing new class of .223s. Make no mistake about it–the SU16 isn’t Kel-Tec’s take on the venerable AR-15 design, as I’ve heard some suggest. Despite a passing resemblance, and a common chambering, the SU16 is intended for an entirely different purpose.

Specs on the SU16CA

Calibers:.223 Rem5.56mm
Weight unloaded:4.7lbs.2.1kg
Length:35.9″912.0mm
Length Folded:24.9″632.7mm
Barrel length:16.0″406.4mm
Magazine Capacity:10 rounds, or M-16 compatible
Twist:1:9″1:228.6mm
Trigger Pull:5lbs to 7lbs22.2N to 31.1N
Sight Radius:15.5″393.7mm
At heart, the SU16 is a new class of .223. For those interested in the functionality of the round, it is a solid choice.

At heart, the SU16 is a new class of .223. For those interested in the functionality of the round, it is a solid choice.

What makes it a SU16CA? Kel-Tec makes several versions of the SU16. The CA has Parkerized steel parts. The front sight is moved back to the gas block, and the barrel is threaded. It won’t fire when the stock is folded, which makes the gun more likely to pass muster in states with serious restrictions on liberty. More on that later. It is essentially an SU16C with storage in a stock that won’t scare California Democratic lawmakers quite so badly.

Taking the SU16 down is not difficult at all.

Taking the SU16 down is not difficult at all.

This isn’t a gun for those of you with polymer prejudices. I originally had a hard time deciding if the Kel-Tec Su16CA was a tool, or a range-time treat for the guy who has everything else. The gun just didn’t look rugged enough. The amount of polymer left me questioning if this gun would function at all. Even now, after I’ve put 1,000 rounds through this one, I’m left scratching my head. It works, and works exceptionally well.

Let’s start with the obvious highlights. One of the first things that makes the gun attractive is its 4.7 pound weight. The SU16 achieves this by limiting the amount of steel in the build. The barrel and action are steel. Most everything else is polymer, and it can be unnerving. When you first pick up the SU16, you will feel what I mean. It is designed to be easy to carry in a pack. It is a survival rifle. And it is certainly does that job well.

But the SU16 does more than your typical survival rifle. Most survival guns sacrifice features and performance for a reduction in weight. The SU16 has some nice attributes that set it apart. The forend splits open into a bipod. And the long-stroke gas-piston makes the rifle reliable and very easy to maintain. When you add in the folding stock and threaded barrel, the SU16CA begins to look much more versatile than the typical pack gun.

The stock will hold two 10 round mags.

The stock will hold two 10 round mags.

The gun is designed to work with all AR-15 compatible magazines, and ships with two 10 round polymer magazines. The magazine is released with an ar15 style button. Sadly the magazines I had during the testing of the rifle did not drop free, however I’m sure some out there do.While I’m not one to use 10 round mags, I appreciate the way they fit into the stock. It is useful for organizing ammo selection for specific purposes. And if you keep them loaded, the mags make this a grab-and-go type of gun.

The rifle features a removable (and adjustable) rear sight that mounts directly onto a polymer 1913 rail (which can also be used for the mounting of optics). The charging handle reciprocates, and the safety operates on a cross bolt design. The trigger breaks at a clean 6 pounds. The gun also folds at the grip, but this does render the rifle unusable. Lastly the chrome lined barrel is threaded to 1/2×28. So if you wanted to add something to the end of the barrel, you could. Just saying.

Shooting the Su16

So how does a gun that’s made with so much polymer shoot? Surprisingly well. Maybe I’m exposing my own polymer prejudice, but I didn’t expect the SU16 to work flawlessly, but it did. I began at 100 yards with the factory presets. Brass and steel cased ammo both worked fine and I put round after round onto a steel silhouette. The SU16 is very easy to shoot form the shoulder as it’s substantially lighter than your typical decked-out AR. The rifle balances well and isn’t fatiguing, at all.

Going prone is easier with the 10 round mag than a 30 round mag.

Going prone is easier with the 10 round mag than a 30 round mag.

The bipod is easy to use, too. Pull the slider back and the arms pop down. The bipod supplies enough support and steadies the gun well enough that I was able to engage the steel silhouette’s head. While it isn’t an MOA gun, it works well enough that I could consistently flip the center flipper plate on the torso. Groups came in at roughly six inches–nothing to write home about, but perfectly in line with the intended use of the rifle.

I added a 3×9 briefly, but it didn’t feel right on the SU16. I was able to get the group sizes down to 3 inches, but I didn’t get the consistency I’d hoped for. The rail on the top is polymer, and that in itself poses some challenges for securely mounting optics. In the end, I decided I wouldn’t put anything on the rail (apart from the rear sight). The extra weight didn’t seem worth it. This is a featherweight. Leave it alone.

Why isn’t it an MOA rifle? There are a number of factors. The first is the mix of polymer and steel. These materials heat up and respond to heat quite differently. And the barrel isn’t free-floated. The front sight is built onto the gas block, which limits the sight radius. On the back end, the rear sight sits on a polymer rail. The whole system is rigid enough for its intended purposes, and not rigid enough for exceptional repeat accuracy.

And I’m perfectly fine with that. The more I worked with the SU16, the more I thought of this as a survival rifle. And I’d never trust a survival gun that was reliant on a scope or on optic. The SU16 gets a pass as far as I’m concerned.

The SU16 next to a Colt SBR. The two couldn't be any more different.

The SU16 next to a Colt SBR. The two couldn’t be any more different.

Limitations?

As far as I’m concerned, the rifle has no limitations. If you insist on comparing it to an AR-15, sure, there are going to be obvious places where the gun comes up short. The SU16 isn’t as customizable as an AR, and it doesn’t offer as much recoil control or ergonomic sophistication. But this isn’t an AR. Even though it shoots the .223, it has to be seen in a different light.

The SU16 is only meant to stand in for an AR in places where the AR-15 is legally challenged. Another big feature of the SU16 is that the gun meets compliance standards in many states. If you had to live in California, for example, an SU16CA would be a decent replacement for the AR-15. And it is also a packable firearm designed for the hiker, the predator hunter, or for the bug out bag. It follows the old world protocol of the pack weapon; light, small, and deadly. As far as compromises go, the SU16CA isn’t bad.

We put the SU16CA through the California criteria and it seems to pass. The forums, though, are full of stories of questionable rifles being confiscated by LEOs. The moral of the story is this. Check. Double check. Print out documentation. Tuck it in the gun case. Cover your ass. Check out the flowchart Calguns has put together. The absurdity will melt your brain.

For the rest of us, the SU16CA, or any of the SU16s, would be a compliment to our other guns. The MSRP on the SU16CA is $770. In this market, where you can buy an AR-15 for less than a night out at the movies, that price may seem steep. But again, I’m comparing it to the AR, which isn’t fair. The market isn’t swimming in SU16s, so you’ll end up paying close to that price.

Conclusions

Beauty isn’t a word I generally use when talking about Tupperware guns, but this gun is a work of art. It is not beautiful in the classical sense, but it is in the world of function. Every part of this gun has a well thought out purpose. The integral handguard/bipod, the gas block front sight, the folding butt stock that holds two ten round magazines–it all fits. And the SU16 has been built into a gun that can take whatever abuse you could possibly throw at it.

The bipod forend in forend mode.

The bipod forend in forend mode.

The front sight is robust.

The front sight is robust.

The gas tube come out easily.

The gas tube comes out easily.

To get the stock to fold, simply pop a pin.

To get the stock to fold, simply pop a pin.

The SU16's bipod isn't tall, but it is sufficient.

The SU16’s bipod isn’t tall, but it is sufficient.

The controls on the SU16 will be familiar to those accustomed to the AR, though the charging handle is different.

The controls on the SU16 will be familiar to those accustomed to the AR, though the charging handle is different.

The threaded barrel has a nice cap that is easy to remove.

The threaded barrel has a nice cap that is easy to remove.

The forend pops open at the touch of a button.

The forend pops open at the touch of a button.

the rear sight sits on the rail.

the rear sight sits on the rail.

The rifle is light, and allows you to get very low.

The rifle is light, and allows you to get very low.

{ 54 comments… add one }
  • Bud Bush September 22, 2016, 6:25 pm

    (9-2016) I just bought one of these, mostly for the reasons you listed. I like the light weight, the AR15/M16 magazine compatibility, but most of all, the “less threatening” appearance of the gun. We all know that appearance is all that matters when choosing a firearm, but Keltec’s rep and and the magazine compatibility sold ME. I haven’t had a chance to take it to the range, yet. One of the major concerns I have about this gun is that just handling it is LOUD. It pops and creaks, and being hollow polymer, its easy to hear. I’m gonna have to play around with that.
    With the afore mentioned “I ain’t shot it yet” caviat, is there anything else I can look at to improve this bug-out tool?

    • Mike December 18, 2016, 1:52 pm

      Yup. U can lightly file down the 2 included mags to drop free. And open the mag to file /smooth the flashing,so it will operate better. All aftermarket mags are taller and won’t hold into the stock.so u will want the og one’s to work well.

  • BigR March 16, 2015, 4:07 pm

    I think I’ll just stick to my Colt AR-15! I’m kinda fond of it!

  • david February 24, 2015, 12:20 pm

    I don’t understand… in CA. with a bullet button and 10 rd mag you can have (or make) just about any ar-15 you want.

    • The Annoyed Man December 30, 2016, 5:47 pm

      Not any longer. With CA’s new infringements, I wouldn’t bother with an AR any longer. In fact, I wouldn’t bother with CA any longer. Fortunately, I became a Texan in 2006…..and now I have all kinds of toys that CA wouldn’t trust me to own. This is why, if I do buy an SU-16CA, it will be sporting an AAC 762-SDN-6 suppressor to make it quiet. I run all my rifles suppressed now. California is a lost cause.

  • shooter123 February 24, 2015, 6:53 am

    At least this rifle is different and unique. And Kel tec is one of the few companies that is thinking outside of the box. Unlike most companies coming out with another ar-15 (stands for another rifle just like 15 others, or add your choice of zeros to the 15). Now dont get me wrong, I love my ar platform. But I am ready for something new to fall in love with. Good job Kel tec! Maybe this will help push other companies to be innovative.

    • Viperboss February 24, 2015, 1:19 pm

      I have one of these Kel-tecs and an AR-15. The Kel-tec is an awesome gun. I think of it as the American AK-47. It shoots all types of ammo without a glitch, its tougher than my AR-15, and it does not require a bullet button in my state of California. It holds its owns magazines in the stock and has a built in bipod all for about $600!! If I had to have only one gun, The Kel-tec SU-16CA would be it. Somebody earlier mentioned the cost being high?? It is a steal.

      • John February 24, 2015, 4:58 pm

        I’m not understanding why this wouldn’t need a bullet button. Semi auto+
        Centerfire+
        Rifle=
        Cannot have a detachable magazine in California.
        In fact since California considers any firearm with live rounds attached to it in any way to be “loaded” you would need a bullet button for each of the 2 mags in the stock as well.

        • Dr David DeMasi December 9, 2016, 3:44 am

          The gun does not need a bullet button in California because it DOES NOT HAVE a pistol grip. Which does not make it an AR platform I own one and I do live in Kalifornia and it is bought legally with no bullet button for the reasons stated. The gun is excellent and works very well. When up in Montana went gopher hunting and shots were about 100 yards plus and it did very well with the bipod opened up and with them closed. Great rifle for the price. When the stock is folded up on the CA model it WILL NOT engage the trigger making it impossible to shoot. That never posed a problem for me. Also the magazine storage which stores two magazines of ten rounds is very handy

        • David December 12, 2016, 6:24 pm

          According to NYS PEN 265, if you possess a firearm AND possess ammunition for the that firearm, you are in possession of a loaded firearm. So there you have it, some states are more anti-gun tha n the California communists.

  • John February 23, 2015, 11:09 pm

    Okay, so does anyone REALLY believe these guns will be available, at MSRP, in the next three to five years?

    Kel-Tec is big on designing new guns, they just can’t seem to get around to doing the “building” part of it!

    • Earl Hammer January 16, 2017, 6:33 pm

      True. I just bought my SU16C 2 weeks ago, online. It took about 2 weeks to locate a new one. I was too slow at buying two previously. I thought I was going to have to spend $629.00 on one, then I found mine for $550. Great gun! I think a great value with how reliable, dependable, and how packable they are. Your correct again, it doesn’t seem the factory is able to meet the demand. I just realized that I’ve never seen any advertising about these either…. Maybe that would help get some made and sold.

  • Evan February 23, 2015, 10:48 pm

    I’ve shot one of these pieces of junk, my friend in the Corps had one. As we were stationed in California, it was probably this model, too. Worst rifle I’ve ever shot, hands down. Constant failures to extract, failures to eject. Saying it isn’t as “ergonomically sophisticated” as an AR is far too generous, the ergonomics plain suck, especially that farcical forend/bipod. The accuracy is about what you’d expect from an Egyptian AK that’s never seen even the most perfunctory maintenance in 30 years. Yeah, this gun is feather light, but a gun that’s really its only redeeming quality. Even if I lived in a ban state I wouldn’t pay money for this abortion.

  • J E Wilson February 23, 2015, 10:16 pm

    Living in the land of the Demo…. gun “lords”. otherwise known as Komifornia (or however you want to spell it) I really like this idea, especially in 5.56. Does anyone knoe what the length of pull is? or Where sling mounts are? They are not listed anywhere that I have looked so far. Will also do more research to find out if it is “legal” to own and shoot here before I would be ready to get one. Would love to take it to Nevada to train with and would definatly get a scope for these 67 y.o. eyes. I even use a scope on my .30 Carbine. Any heads up on LOP would be helpful. Thanks

  • gsxeric February 23, 2015, 7:18 pm

    Is it possible to put two 20 round mags in the Butt storage ?? Or will AR mags also fit in the storage ?? Just curious..

    • Mark August 19, 2016, 12:49 pm

      The butt stock is designed to hold one 30 round mag or the two 10’s. But, that’s moot in my State, Connecticu%t, where one, 30 round mag will get you 1 to 5 years free room and board in a State owned housing complex.

  • Rocky February 23, 2015, 1:28 pm

    “…you can buy an AR-15 for less than a night out at the movies…”
    Oh Come On now ! Really ? While I haven’t been to the movies in about 20 years (no closed captions and I’m tone deaf to high range sound) I highly doubt that a night out would cost the $500-800 that I see most AR15s selling for.
    Other than that, I find the article refreshing, as I’ve owned a Keltec P3AT for a decade now (backup) and it hasn’t let me down yet. I’m interested in a Keltec 9mm, next, as a back up for when I carry my S&W M&P9. Too bad they don’t make them in .40 & .45 cal. as well, or I’d have one of each of them (for backup) too.

    • PokeyKT40 November 25, 2016, 4:26 pm

      Actually Kel-Tec does make a 40 cal. I happen to own one, they are rare but their out there, saw 2 on Guns America not too long ago. As a matter fact they were pretty cheap, I know I wouldn’t sell mine for cheap.

  • John February 23, 2015, 12:50 pm

    I have the first generation SU-16 and have nothing but good things to say about it. My version, like the Kaliforia version, will not fire when folded, but who gives a $#!]? Eats everything I put into it, never a failure of any kind, only issue has been that I left the 10 round poly magazines loaded in my warm gun safe (I live in the desert) located in my garage, the lips deformed and won’t hold the rounds in place! I will now reform the lips with spent brass and a heat gun (keeping my fingers crossed on this) so I can continue to use the handy storage feature in the buttstock.

    If I had it to do over again I’d buy another. Great gun, excellent customer service company (I have another KelTec pistol that they’ve helped me with), and versatile enough to pack into my motorcycle luggage and head down the road WELL armed.

    I agree that a 300 Blackout would be a nice addition, perhaps I’ll look into a rebarreling project at a later date?

  • Russ February 23, 2015, 11:25 am

    Thanks a lot for opening my eyes to this rifle Jacob.
    Good review, and what I like to see when I come to this site.
    Being a Californian, I can apreciate it even more.
    Here’s some more info for anyone interested in this rifle, by a very reliable source;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TaqPowTdqtg

    • Virgil cooper March 1, 2015, 11:39 am

      Hey, Russ forced to comply? No one should be forced to comply, maby required to vote or loose the privilege of a drivers license or something ( which I would support ) but in no way loose any of thier rights. Our right to vote is the only tool we have to make sure we are not forced to do anything but the less we use that tool by not voting the closer we become to being FORCED!

  • Richard Townsend February 23, 2015, 10:39 am

    I have herd that in some, and saw a picture on U-tube that the bolt hitting rear of the receiver cracked the polymer receiver housing.

  • Heatpacker February 23, 2015, 10:39 am

    I’m curious about the bolt design. In one of the photos, I see a rotating bolt head like that of an AR-15, but the return spring design appears to be different. Is the spring housed in the receiver, like an SKS or AK?

    • Heatpacker February 23, 2015, 2:06 pm

      Never mind. I found a video on Youtube. The spring is in the gas piston tube. Very clever use of space.

  • JohnD February 23, 2015, 9:54 am

    I have one of these. I also have an AR15, and I live in California. I use this in multigun matches. This rifle is just as accurate as an AR. I only use reloads, never had any failures.Works great with my Burris FastFire II. Great rifle.

  • Higherview February 23, 2015, 9:53 am

    I have the SU-16C version which can be fired with the stock folded. I got it only a few months ago, but paid significantly less than the MSRP listed here. Perhaps prices are localized? Mine shot around 2 1/2 – 3 1/2 inches out of the box, depending upon load. With a Silencero Trifecta flash-hider attached the groups dropped to 1/2 inch to 1 1/4 inch depending upon load. Not bad at all. I have a Micor flash-hider on it now which also is supposed to reduce groups and even increase velocity. We will see. Except for adding a sling – which has proven to be problematic – this is a great pack along rifle. I have a Leupold 1-4# variable in QD rings for a light fast handling all-around carbine.

    • DaveW February 23, 2015, 2:03 pm

      I would suggest not mentioning in a public forum that you are using a “flash hider” which is illegal in California. A muzzle brake IS legal. Of course, we know that a “flash hider” doesn’t really hide the flash; it only helps the shooter retain vision in low light conditions. That’s what happens when people who do not know weapons or are against weapons make the laws regarding weapons.

      • Higherview February 23, 2015, 5:10 pm

        Sorry, I’m not in California, I’m in Free-America where flash hiders are perfectly legal. Mine is named by the manufacturer “flash-hider” so I guess i’d be incorrect to call it by another name. They also make a muzzle brake for those who can not have or do not want a flash-hider. Mine does a very good job of hiding or “suppressing” the flash.

        • Keith February 26, 2015, 12:25 am

          I left California years ago. I love private civilian firearm ownership and California is truly hostile to it. (I think New York state is even worse presently). The only people who can own real small arms in California are the politicians, elitists and the Hollywood crowd with their bodyguards. Notice that it is always your guns they want and they get to keep theirs. The mentality is one of Lords and peasants.

  • shrugger February 23, 2015, 8:12 am

    Why don’t we just make Caliphornia and ‘The beautiful Garbage State’ Comply with the rest of us instead.

    • Russ February 23, 2015, 12:05 pm

      I’m with you Shrugger.
      All we have to do is kick out all the Freeloaders, Bums, Communists, Democrats, and Illegal aliens.
      Let’s get right on that, so we can have a honest vote.

      • JJ February 23, 2015, 6:24 pm

        Freeloaders – you mean the majority of white Americans that make up the Welfare rolls?

        Bums, you mean the large portion of veterans that can’t get the help they need adjusting back to civilian life?

        Communists, you mean people that think the wealthiest nation in the world should make sure that families don’t lose their homes or go bankrupt due to the illness of a loved one?

        Democrats, you mean those that don’t hold the same views as you and don’t back down to bullies like you?

        Illegal aliens – you mean people seeking opportunity just like our founding fathers?

        This country is GREAT because not everyone agrees, but we compromise and solve out problems together.
        Not shutting down the government and Homeland Security just because you can’t get your way.
        Try some LOVE, I know it isn’t as easy as hate, but a lot less stressful. Live longer AND healthier.

        • Russ February 23, 2015, 11:57 pm

          ——————————————->LIBERAL ANTI GUN PLANT ALERT!<——————————————-
          No JJ, I mean Socialist, Communistic Democrat freeloading bums like you that hire illegal aliens to mow their lawns in front of their Barney Frank homes.
          Wait, let me try some love;
          I would "LOVE" you to not just get the hell out of California, but move to France and become a mime, so I don't have to hear your twisted nonsense.
          Go Away Please, Thanks!

  • Jim February 23, 2015, 8:06 am

    I’ve looked at this gun for a long time and the folding concept for a bug out gun is commendable. However the concept of a bug out gun is not to add another type of ammo to your carry load. It is to have a long gun to complement a hand gun round you already plan on carrying. Like the 9mm, 10mm, 45 Cal, 38 Cal, even 22lr etc. Now if Kel-tec wants to really make a pack out gun, let talk either conversions or redesign to fire these other cal. I think there is a 9mm compact or folding gun by Kel-tec that is much better suited for bug out bag than the .223 (5.56).

    • RG February 23, 2015, 12:49 pm

      Have you not heard of Hi Point carbines? 9MM, .40 and .45 cal.

      • Ringo Lapua February 23, 2015, 8:07 pm

        My Hi-Point .45 Carbine is by far the BEST of the three (I have a 9mm and sold the .40 cal version). For about $350 you can own a Hi-Point .45 Carbine and will have one of the best pistol carbines made. One thing I wish was that it came with a threaded barrel ….that would make it perfect.

        • jared williams February 24, 2015, 11:33 am

          I have the hipoint carbine as well. Definitely not at all comparable to kel-tec light weight polymer pistol carbines like the Sub2K…it’s very cumbersome, oversized, not foldable or easily transported at all. Weighs a lot as well. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great price, reliable accurate and fun to shoot. Not at all a survival rifle or bug-out gun in my opinion. you also are always going to be limited to 10 round hipoint mags. So stupid, they should at least offer higher capacity magazines.

          If you want a pistol carbine that is designed to fit into a back pack and complement your pistol (and also for customization comparable to an AR) in addition to taking Glock, S&W 25-30 round magazines, the Kel-tec wins again, in the SUB2000 pistol carbine. Good luck finding one (below MSRP at least) though, sorry to say.

    • Bigmag47 February 23, 2015, 1:54 pm

      Jim, I guess your idea of a “bug-out weapon” is different than mine. I don`t view a “bug out weapon” as one who`s ammo is common with your hand gun, nor just for the use of self defense. I consider “hunting” just as much a part of survival if not more than the previous. So what if you have to have one extra type of ammo than your handgun. The ballistics for a .223, or 5.56 are much better than that of your typical large caliber handgun round, which if your going to be much farther than 100 yards or so would be a much better choice. I think you`d be a lot better off trying to hit a target at let`s say 600 yards with a .223 than a .44 magnum. That`s the way I see it anyway, not to mention, it will kill up close and personnel just fine.

  • Joe February 23, 2015, 5:52 am

    Make one in 10 mm or .44 magnum and i’m all over it.

  • JLA February 23, 2015, 2:51 am

    The CA is my favorite version of the Su-16. I’m not a fan at all of the versions that are setup to look & feel like an AR15. If you want an AR why are you buying a Su-16? Buy an AR! The CA has the heavier barrel, the threaded muzzle & the standard AR15 front sight post along with the bipod forend and folding stock of the original. It seems like the ideal setup to me. BTW, a loaded 30rd mag will also fit into the buttstock, so you’re not limited to storing the original ten rounders.

    The only thing that I’d really like to see is a version in .300 Blackout. I’m not one of the Blackout fan boys who thinks that it’s the best thing since the .22lr and should replace the 5.56 as our military’s standard issue cartridge, but it does seem to be ideal for a rifle of this type. In a survival situation having a rifle that can both take big game and operate silently while still being effective could be a big bonus!

  • Josh February 21, 2015, 1:18 pm

    This would be a nice back up .223 but the prices of them are a little steep considering what you get… the only other option would be kel Tec plr 16 thats a nice .223 pistol for a survival gun… even a lighter option to consider….

    • Tim February 23, 2015, 9:35 am

      I have to agree. I looked long and hard at this platform and decided you don’t get what you pay for. Does polymer really cost that much these days? I was also less than thrilled with the (lack) of accuracy.

      • Bigmag47 February 23, 2015, 1:09 pm

        Tim, it`s plenty accurate, if you`re using it for what it was designed for. :0/

      • Bigmag47 February 23, 2015, 1:34 pm

        Tim, when you say “does polymer really cost that much these days”? Your not paying for the polymer per say, rather the lightweight feature that only the “polymer” can provide, and I don`t know about you, but if I had a week, or even a month of SURVIVAL, and had to pack a full sized rifle with me all day long, even 2, or 3lbs. can make quite a bit of difference compared to carrying a fully dressed AR, at which your probably looking at the least, 7 to 9 lbs. with scope, compressor, maybe a full sized quad rail, and don`t forget bi-pod. Also, Consider how much more a gas piston AR is compared to an impingement type system. Still $700.00 can be a bit much if you compare it to the price of a “CHEAP” AR at 5 to 6 hundred, and when I say “cheap” I`m not only speaking of price but of quality. How many decent Gas piston operated AR`s with a folding stock, magazine carrier, and a built in bi-pod that weighs under 5 lbs. can you find under $700.00? That`s easy…..NONE! I guess like so many other things, it all comes down to personal preference.
        I believe it would be a nice addition to anyone`s firearm collection, however; that`s just my personal opinion.

    • rev_dave February 23, 2015, 9:55 am

      There is also something to be said for having a carbine and pistol in the same caliber. Normally, you’d find this in handgun calibers, but with pistols now available in AR and AK configurations, you can have both – and feed them both from the same crate of ammo. It’s an idea I like a lot for survival or home defense scenarios.

    • Derek November 8, 2016, 5:03 pm

      Hello all, everyone has great points about this weapon. I just purchased one because I like the concept of a “bug out weapon” that shoots .223 and 5.56 but doesn’t look like an AR-15, which I have also. It is a pack gun that is designed for your bug out kits. The price is a bit high if you are just looking at it in comparison with an AR platform from say, S&W. To mitigate the price, you need to look at a few things:
      1. Shoots any .223 and 5.56 ammo
      2. Takes any AR style magazine
      3. Not overly sophisticated, simplistic
      4. It folds and has makeshift bipods
      5. Sturdy sights
      6. and most importantly, this weapon has a piston gas system vice a gas tube that spews carbon on the bold carrier. This weapon is designed to be dragged through the mud and operated in some of the most harshest conditions. Try paying $600 for a piston gas system AR; won’t happen.
      This weapon is not as accurate as most ARs, however, it makes up in other ways with it’s intended purpose as a pack gun for a bug out. Love it or hate it, buy it or not, keep your heads down and your powder dry fellow gun enthusiast, the enemy is amongst us.

  • James February 19, 2015, 9:08 pm

    What does the word “complient” in the title of this article mean?

    • JLA February 23, 2015, 2:54 am

      It fits Commiefornia’s ridiculous firearms compliance restrictions.

    • Michael February 23, 2015, 6:50 am

      are you serious?

    • Jessie February 23, 2015, 9:26 am

      That you don’t know how to spell the word “compliant”, even when you read it in an article.

      • Rev. Charles Deaton February 23, 2015, 10:34 am

        Why be a dick , damn he misspelled a word ! Get over yourself. Does it make you feel better or did mommy spank you to much as a child ?

        • JJ February 23, 2015, 6:03 pm

          that would be TOO much!

      • jared williams February 24, 2015, 11:23 am

        you guys are so stupid, you are making fun of him for spelling “complient” wrong, even though it was in quotes for a reason. THE JOKE WAS THAT THE JOURNALIST SPELLED IT WRONG. Jesus. Look at the damn headline.

    • Russ February 23, 2015, 11:47 am

      We Californians have to put up with politicians that have taken over our State and created nonsense laws that have infringed upon our 2nd amendment rights.
      We are forced to “comply” with the laws they have passed, or be “compliant”
      Compliant is a word that is more used, or understood by a communistic situation.
      It’s why you will see the misspelling of California in comments or replies when relating to firearms here.

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