An Ohio man holding a BB gun was fatally shot by police at a Walmart in Beavercreek on Tuesday, local media reports.
Investigators say that 22-year-old John Crawford was carrying a “variable pump air rifle,” identified as a Crosman MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, when officers confronted him in the store.
Witnesses said prior to the arrival of police, Crawford was brandishing the toy gun in the store.
Ronald Ritchie, a witness, told CBS affiliate WHIO that Crawford “was just waving [the gun] at children and people…I couldn’t hear anything that he was saying. I’m thinking that he is either going to rob the place or he’s there to shoot somebody.”
“He didn’t really want to be looked at and when people did look at him, he was pointing the gun at them. He was pointing at people. Children walking by,” said Ritchie, who was there with his wife, April.
The couple also noticed that Crawford was cradling a phone between his shoulder and his ear while he was handling the rifle.
When the police officers arrived on scene, the ordered Crawford to drop the air rifle, according to April Ritchie.
“I heard, ‘put it down, put it down,’ ” April Ritchie said. “I heard two shots after I saw him turn. He still had the weapon in his hand.”
Police then tackled and cuffed Crawford, who was apparently trying to get up. He was transported to a local hospital were the Montgomery County coroner’s office confirmed that he was dead as a result of the gunshot wounds.
Meanwhile, LeeCee Johnson, the mother of Crawford’s children told The Dayton Daily News that she was the one who he was talking to when he was shot by police.
“We was just talking. He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were. And the next thing I know, he said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said, ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him,” she explained, adding: “And I could hear him just crying and screaming. I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.”
Now, state and county investigators are looking into the matter to see if there was any criminal misconduct by the officers who shot Crawford.
I never comment, always considered myself part of the silent (conservative) majority.
But here it goes,
1st when I was a young teenager (13-15) I was a proud owner of a pump action AR – 15 Replica Pellet/BB Gun. There was an undeveloped and lightly wooded area nearby to my neighborhood. Friends and I would take our bb/pellet guns shooting there, and no one ever thought that was odd or called the police. That was the mid 1980’s.
We didn’t even get 2nd glances, and if we did it was other kids who wanted to join us, and did. This was within the city limits of a major city in Texas. We were also a mixed bag of white, hispanic, and black kids just tinkering and plinking around with our bb guns away from the houses and normal area of other kids play. We even played football out there and sometimes had camp fires. We used to go through gun aisles in stores all the time checking out new guns or buying BBs or Pellets too. We also did this with Archery.
I remember latet having real shotguns and rifles in our gun racks in our trucks on public school property (parking lot) on Fridays so we could leave straight from school to our parent’s hunting leases. Coaches would actually handle our rifles and/or shotguns right there in the public school parking lot admiring our guns or wondering how hunting season was going and NO ONE gave pause or a second look to that including the Police. That was 1988 and 1989 that I witnessed this.
Fact is the inner city gun battles by Gangs in the early mid 1990’s, which started on the West and East Coasts, later spreading inland. These Criminal Gang Members were usually always on drugs, and were always seen or heard of committing dangerous felonies in public terrorizing the communities at large.
The raw violence they perpetrated sent a sensation of concern and fear rippling thru society and shattered the bubble I once grew up in where perceptions later changed about a great many things.
I knew one Dallas PD veteran who was shot by gang members on 2 seperate occasions during his career, surviving both and returning to full duty both times. Things were bad! All the offenders were career criminals or were beginning their careers as criminals.
Statistically the most likely violent offender was a young black male in a gang, and when people saw them, they took extreme caution as one naturally would. They were easy to spot, and they were hateful young thugs who reveled in terrorizing the elderly, the impoverished women, and the nice children still trapped in their neighborhoods, and many of them killed each other off at war zone like rates.
Also about that time, School Shootings began by psychopathic kids. But to stay more to the point I’m trying to make in this shooting, I will not dwell here.
The young black male became a symbol of violence and it was in the news all day and night long. It was in shows and movies, it was a message that gang looking young black males were violent, and frankly, many still are. Same is true of Latinos, Vietnamese, and White gang members.
That gang violence, in my mind, was a large factor in what led to the union of Texas Democrat and Republican Lawmakers to pass our 1st CHL Law about 20 years ago.
There are also hysterical people, and/or 911 Trolls who either, respectively, unintentionally or intentionally, hype up dispatchers as “Phil” previously said. They are part of the problem as well, and possibly deserve some look at after the fact in events like this tragic shooting.
As a potential internet Juror after the fact, was this young man’s race a factor? Likely it was, but more it appears from the perception of the 911 caller than the Police.
Was the deceased acting violent or threatening? NoT really from the video I saw, but this could be in part because I also know it was a BB Gun after the fact.
Should he have been shot so fast? No, probably not. I was shocked at how fast he was just shot. To me they appeared to almost just run in and shoot him. You may see it different, no arguments here. For me it was just super fast how quick he was shot upon arrival to suspect location.
Did they wait on back up, and try to assess and contain and remove peripheral bystanders? They didn’t even try to send a 2nd unit to talk themselves through the Camera Feed from Security which I know is an unmarked Door as you enter the Store.
Video shows them unwisely pass that security door where they could have detected a second or even third armed person. For their own Safety they went in very fast and not as cautiously as I might have expected to see.
What we can’t see is this deceased young man’s toxicology and or medical reports (I would have questions in these areas) which might have showed he was under the influence or could have had hearing or cognitive issues to a point he might not have immediately understood what was happening as fast as it happened to him, and the video is clear, it went fast! Too fast by my opinion.
Should the fact he was on the phone in an isolated corner with his back to people and to the arriving police be considered in how he was shot and whether he was given time to comply with commands? I think it could be fairly argued these are mitigating factors that should be considered in the Officer’s decision process to fire so quickly. As a potential Juror, I would have seriously questioned this.
Was this a tragedy? Yes, obviously it is a terrible one for everyone, especially the young man who was killed for mulling around Walmart with their merchandise and chatting on the phone apparently just spending part of his day in the store up until he was hastily and summarily shot.
This video actually has potential for future training in this observer’s opinion. I hope people can learn from this and prevent a repeat of this type of incident.
I am curious if anyone is aware if you can hold a wrongful death claim on the original 911 caller who apparently just followed this young man thru the store seemingly unafraid of the very threat they described to Police and whether or not they exacerbated this situation by claiming falsely he was threatening people and likely “hyping” up the dispatchers and subsequently the responding Officer’s who were brave to enter quickly, but perhaps unduly hasty because of pressure from a hysterical caller exaggerating the circumstances of the situation as yet unknown to them. These Officer’s are still very questionable to so quickly shoot this man from what I observed though.
All Lives Matter by the way. Good Day.
For Reference, the Video I refer to is not the one seen here, but the full Walmart security feed angles that were released and can be found on YouTube that actually has the sound from another source overlapped to the video.
Good Day, All Lives Matter.
Hope Society and Police can learn from this tragedy some positive lessons.
I too remember going to school and the older boys had long rifles/shotguns visible inside their trucks. It is NOT the guns (often said), it is the person. And today the person is a product of the culture. We have had 40 to 50 years of liberal bullshit socialist crap. Nothing liberal or socialist has ever worked. It has always been negative results. The socialist agenda beat conservative, Christian, American values by using the media an play the game with no rules. If we care we must fight back with no rules. Fight fire with fire. We only have about half of the second amendment left now. We are loosing the entire Constitution. And…..the majority of Americans are so dumb, apathetic, and brain washed; as if they had a brain. I asked a young woman in customer service a few current news questions. She was 100% unaware. They don’t know today’s real news or history either. I have asked told dozens of people lately if they knew the internet was no longer America’s. Not a one knew it. They are very aware of the socialist agenda however.
Having had the time to watch the videos and such, Crawford clearly was never given any time to react before he was shot.
Richie lied. Crawford did none of the things that Richie said that he did. This was on the security video.
I’m sure that the Statists cop lovers here still believe that it was fully justified in spite of none of their fantasies about what went down, having been the case.
Just in case anyone takes my comments to be offensive or demeaning to LEO. I don’t have any particular malice towards them. Just a general distrust.
Any group or organization which has the power to take a persons life and then be given a paid vacation while the media frenzy dies down to ultimately be cleared of even manslaughter charges is one to be treated warily.
Yes, I understand that they have a dangerous job.
I’m just confused about how our military in a war zone has more restrictions on who and how they may shoot foreign civilians than the police in our own country do for our own citizens.
The article stated he was pointing it at people. I would have shot him if I had been there.
that d should be dink winkerson. sorry.
Well, Dink, it’s too bad you weren’t there to shoot him. If You had, at least Someone would get in trouble for shooting an essentially unarmed man.
Yes. I get that a BB gun can “put your eye out” and in, you know, the case where someone has the drop on you they could stick the muzzle in your ear and maybe kill you. So I guess he Was armed. And yes, it was a look alike gun and yes he shouldn’t have pointed it at other shoppers and, oh… Wait.
My question, if he was such a menace to society, a mad dog in need of putting down.. Why were there not Scores of panicked shoppers calling the police and Fleeing from this Obviously Dangerous man. Until AFTER the police showed up and Shot him?
Sure there was the pharmacy people who locked their gate and hid in the bathroom to call the cops.. After they heard shots in their store.
Sure, a lady with a heart condition panicked and ran herself into a heart attack.
After, the cops shot him.
Yes, there are likely countless shoppers who will need therapy for this “traumatic incident”.
After all, they learned that anyone in America is subject to summary execution at the whim of random strangers with a phone and the will to make shit up on a 911 call.
As for all the people who say “well, he shouldn’t have pointed a gun at the cops”.
To the best of my reading comprehension from multiple articles, it said that he had the muzzle pointed up. Which leads me to believe that he had it pointed at the ceiling.
And if he didn’t have the muzzle pointed at the ceiling, I’m sure the 125 cameras worth of video have a great shot of his Wild Crazy behavior that led to his death.
You are a thinking man and that is unusual. I too have nothing against cops, and I would never actively support BLM. But I can understand why some blacks feel the way they do. I am white. The media almost never covers a story whrere the victim is white. The problem is the cops ARE predominantly corrupt, lying, abusive, and kill without cause. They love to practice whore mongering on ALL women. Single, married, on job, off job. They protect and cover for each other. In Tennessee we have a state senator, Mark Green, who wants to protect the cops 100% and punish severely any citizen who reacts to unjust violence, abuse, beating, raping, murder, etc. Senator Green is the person who pulled Saddam Hussein from his spider hole in Tikrit. I have sent him many emails and he appears to be on a crusade for special interests. He won’t even send me a copy of the bill as he is proposing. He replied to me once that he was “just” writing the legislation. I told him that IS the problem. They write too many laws and a vast majority ARE for special interests agendas. He is hell bound to push this on Tennesseans. Hard headed like most of them are once they get in. As far as I am concerned you can put most politicians, lawyers, judges, LEOs, military in a truck load of chain and drop them in a lake. Most have no concern for us, voters, taxpayers, citizens. I can’t get two of my state congressmen to reply to a crime or even offer to sponsor a new, better law. Interestingly, they contend they are conservative, just, equitable, for their constituents, Christian, blah, blah. Liars. Neither party gives a crap for us. Conservatives want to disarm us and abuse us like the liberals; they just want to not appear that they do. ALL LIE.
Do I believe that he was intentionally doing something fool hardy or trying to scare people? Not really.
I think that he didn’t realize that he lived in a place where you could be shot and killed for picking up a product off the shelf that wasn’t in its packaging and walk around the store day dreaming with it.
In retrospect, maybe it’s not a Wise thing to do in a country where someone on a tv show publicly announced his plan to “SWAT” people that he saw Open Carrying as a political activity.
What is “SWATting” you ask?
It is where someone deliberately calls the police and gets the dispatcher hyped up by feeding them keywords: assault rifle, people panicking, Shots Fired, children in danger. Pretty much anything that will bring in a SWAT team with a shoot first to eliminate the threat attitude.
Big deal, right?
Police give you PLENTY of time to comply to their commands. No officer has Ever Kicked or Shot a person on the ground while saying “Stop Resisting” (while being recorded on Video) as the person lay there basically motionless.
So why should Any of you ever worry about some liberal cretin seeing you walking down the street with your revolver sitting in it’s open carry holster. Then calling the Rapid Assault team down on your head to get rid of a silly gun nut holding up social progress?
After the police Kill you like they do, there will be a short inquest while the officer goes on paid administrative leave. They will find that the officer acted in good faith from the information given to him by dispatch. He said that he said put your hands up and the man turned to look at him so the officer shot him.
Unfortunately the video cannot be released to the public during an open investigation.
The officer will be found to have done nothing wrong and will in fact receive a promotion at a later date.
On Gunsamerica.com your fellow commenters will talk about how you should have immediately complied with the instructions which may or may not have come prior to your being shot.
How you deserved to die because you were asking for it. Like a rape victim was “asking” for it with those clothes she was wearing. That’s how you were asking to die. You wore your Gun into an open space, and someone violated your liberty and used the Police to murder you to further their political agenda.
Maybe the Ritchie’s did not Intentionally SWAT this guy, but that is exactly what they Did to him.
According to the several news articles that I’ve read, aside from this one about this; it seems that the only panicked shoppers happened After the cops shot this guy.
The couple that called the cops on him were the Only 911 callers and all the other shoppers were Not alarmed by him until after he was dying.
Rather than suicide by cops, it seems more like homicide or perhaps manslaughter by cops via the people who called it in and Followed him on an Electric Scooter for minutes before the cops got there.
First of all.
I know that all of you are gun experts who have handled Firearms since childhood.
Not everyone is. I’ve met an entire slew of people who have never handled a BB gun, much less a firearm.
They only know how to handle it from what they see in Movies and on Tv.
TV shows aren’t very good at explaining proper safe firearm etiquette.
Ok. Now that that is out of the way.
When you are walking around talking on the phone and some person behind you says something addressed to you, how do you react? I personally would probably say; “Huh, what?” And turn around.
And then I would be on the floor dying because every one of you douche bags would have shot me.
Ok. Are you still with me? Or are you frothing at the mouth to tell me that any and every ass hat that was on the phone that you ever tried to talk to when they weren’t looking at you could coherently understand your every word and without turning to listen to you could comprehend that you had a gun pointed at their head?(or chest, whatever.)
Now. Imagine for a moment, that you aren’t a 40 or 50 something firearms enthusiast. Imagine yourself as one of your liberal friends kids. You know the ones, they bounce off the walls talking about the new Miley Cyrus video or complain that their internet was glitching last night and the Lag killed them on CoD last night.
Ok. Now imagine you are in the toy section and you see a BB gun that looks like the gun you were using last night when your avatar died. For some reason it’s not in it’s packaging, but there’s a pile of them in their cartons right there. They are in the toy section, so they are toys, right? Next to the zombie Airsoft guns and the paintball guns.
You’re on the phone talking to your girl friend, you absentmindedly pick it up and play with it while you talk to her. You are paying attention to your conversation and kind of flailing the (in your mind) toy gun around day dreaming about call of duty.
Suddenly, behind you someone screams “drop the Gun!” And you say “it’s not real” as you turn to see who is talking to you and why they think you have a gun.
Bang bang..
I’m sure that each and every one of you would feel fully justified if you had been this guy who died for the Greater good. That safety that you gave away your liberty to attain.
It’s the safety to be gunned down in a store for carrying a splitting maul or a scythe or a hammer. Which are all significantly easier to kill people with than a BB gun.
*Correction on one point. These toy guns are not in the toy section. They are sold in in the Sporting Goods section, next to the rifle cases and across from the ammo. This could have been easily avoided had Walmart employed the same procedures they have in place for the sale and handling of real rifles. In my state, they are required to carry the weapon to the exit before handing it to you. I was told when I bought my rifle that this is the exact reason for this procedure – to not give anyone a false alarm. Also, I have never seen any of the BB/Pellet guns not in a box at our Walmarts. Why would someone take it out of the box and carry it around the store? Walmarts in other states may have different situations, so need to attack me for this observation. I am only basing this view on how it is handled in the Walmarts that I am familiar with.
I wonder why you couldn’t post my comments?
Was I too harsh on the dead guy, or too sympathetic to the police and shoppers?
Maybe you can print this scenario of what may be the situation here;
A guy want’s to kill himself and gets a brain(less)storm idea.
I’ll go to Walmart and get them to call the police on me for brandishing an assault rifle in the store.
When the police shoot me for not complying, my mom can sue Walmart for millions.
Who knows what’s in the mind of a guy like this.
Ordered to put the gun down twice and didn’t comply? What a retard.
Mom said he was crying and screaming? Sounds like the police didn’t lethally shoot him.
I’m glad I didn’t confront him, because if that muzzle would have even came half way up, I would have head shot him in lieu of a nut wearing body armor.
I feel real bad about the police having to go through all this bullshit that they will live the rest of their lives having to remember.
Many shoppers are probably freaked out as well.
I’ll bet you never see the store video showing the whole thing go down. With the cops they are hiring these days you’re going to see a lot more of this type of overreaction.
Crawford WAS TOLD, to put the Weapon DOWN ! His refusal to OBEY , cost Him His LIFE ! ” End ” of Story !
From the eyewitness account I read, it looked this guy was being an a-hole walking around the store pointing the gun at people. What idiot after all that is in the news about active shooters, would walk around a store with a real looking gun, acting like an active shooter. It also seemed by the eyewitness account, that the cops approached him from behind told him to drop the weapon and he turned towards them with the gun still in his hand. Heck, I’d shoot him too under those circumstances. Where I live, all toy guns must have an orange tip, to avoid this kind of thing.
Holy ish!! Where to start on this one. Quit looking to blame the cops!! They only reacted to this fools bahavior. Walking through Wally World brandishing a weapon WILL get you killed. BB guns are made to look authentic. That is what sells. There are no orange tips on BB guns because they are NOT toys. And no you don’t have to pump them up 10 times this is not the 80’s people. As far as officer training goes… There must be around 3000+ different styles of firearms produced. In addition to that there are probably a few hundred different styles of air guns made. Them being able to identify each and every one 100% of the time is crazy. The police don’t have enough funding for essentials let alone all this. As far as shooting arms or legs go…what do yo think happens out there in the real world? Pull the trigger and the bullet automatically goes where you wish? They are taught to protect us and themselves. So when their gun comes out it’s pointed at center mass. Dead men don’t shoot back and kill cops or bystanders. Those officers were doing their job protecting us. Now they will probably have to protect themselves and family from lawsuits and liberal haters that want to blame them and not the individual who caused all of this by pointing a weapon at families with children in Walmart. Wake up people!!!
I was and am with you all but, the liberal hater’s part. Why is it that fellow members of the gun community assume (you can read what I said about assumptions above) about political stance.
Another obey or die US domestic occupation cop playing military. Crawford was in the toy section? Video footage needed to corroborate stories, not enough information printed above. I don’t believe the State’s police forces any longer.
I don’t know about this Wal-Mart, but in the ones that I frequent, the pellet/BB guns are located less than ten feet from the gunpowder-operated firearms. This guy was acting stupid, but a couple questions remain: Did the police shoot, prior to telling him to drop the weapon, and was his weapon pointed in their direction when they fired? These answers would determine the difference between a justified shooting, and a trigger-happy officer.
I agree that Crawford did not have any common sense what with all these high profile shootings. But, why not a leg or arm shot by police.
I agree that Crawford did not have any common sense what with all these high profile shootings. But, why not a leg or arm shot by police.
Robert Wilson; A lot of folks mistakenly believe that such is an option, on the part of the police, when confronted by a potentially dangerous person. It comes from watching too many cowboy serials and movies, as a child, wherein the good guys always shot the gun out to the bad guy’s hands, or as we progress closer to more modern times, merely wounded him, by shooting him in the shoulder.
First of all, as adrenalin pumps through our bodies, in response to a potentially dangerous situation, we immediately lose the capacity for fine motor control, of the muscles that enable us to shoot with that kind of accuracy. Thus making that sort of shooting almost impossible, except for certain highly trained entities, such as Delta Team Operators, who shoot thousands of rounds per week, in practice. Something that no one, outside of such an organization as that, has the time and money to practice to that extent. (many law enforcement organizations have, recently, cut back on the number of rounds to be shot, during annual qualifications, due to the paucity of available ammunition, not to mention the ever increasing costs involved).
Secondly, law enforcement officers are taught to shoot to center mass, for this very reason, to ensure a hit and to minimize the chances of accidentally shooting an innocent bystander.
Thirdly, officers are taught to continue to shoot, until the threat has been eliminated. Far too many times, officers have shot and wounded offenders, only to have them recover sufficiently enough to kill them, in return. I watched a police video wherein a SC State trooper, in the years when they carried 6 shot .357 cal. revolvers, put all 6 rounds into a thick set perpetrator, only to be shot and killed, by a single shot, fired from a North American Arms .22 cal. mini revolver, that he had hidden in his front pocket.
So you see, things are just not as simple and easy, as they make them appear in movies and on TV. I hope that this answered your questions satisfactorily.
I could not agree with you more. In the real world it is two placed center mass and I have always heard trainer’s say that “you are only half as good in a real world stressed shooting situation as you are in a training situation at the range”.
Point anything at a police officer that looks like a gun and you suffer the consequences, the officer dose not know its a bb regardless of all the expertise out there.
Police officers are trained to react and most have families to go home to after work.
Common sense is lacking in most cases and if your pulled over by the police would you get out of your car holding a toy pistol
I like the gene pool one !
Police should have been able to defuse the situation without shoot first, ask questions later. As trained police officers they should have been able to determine the difference between that BB air rifle and a firearm at handgun distances which I assume they were at. The man holding the air rifle was foolish for handling in a way that anyone felt was threatening but I don’t believe a shooting was necessary, not a lethal force action anyway.
You are contraducting yourself and making assumptions. We already know what happens when we make assumptions. You said the man holding the air rifle was foolish for handling it in a way that anyone felt was threatening and then you want to blame the officers for not being able to determine the difference between that BB air rifle and a firearm at handgun distances. Well, when you handle a weapon in that manner you are likely to get shot. I can not stess this enough. HESITATION WILL GET YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE KILLED!
maybe you should try your hand at police work. its very very rare you face a deadly or potentialy deadly weapon with many possible victims around. do you want to go home to your family at shifts end? then if you must err. err on the side that will allow you to go home alive and well. no idiot sleazebag is worth your life.
HEY BRASS
Go face an AK, and good luck with your assessment.
You would do the same thing these cops did except you may have shit your pants first.
Some people lack common sense to their own detriment, don’t they?
Big difference between an AK 47 and a bb gun sir. His wife said she heard him say, “It’s not real”. There was another solution to that situation. They should have took their time and diffused the situation, but no. Big and bad came first I guess. There are such things as warning shots.
Once again too many movies.
I agree with WAH, BB & Pellet guns are not toys. I have dispatched many small rodents in my garden with a pellet gun.
These guns are made to look & feel “real” so you can practice & not go broke buying ammo. when I was a teenager I purposely shot myself in the foot to see how it felt. I won’t do that again.
“Real” guns at Walmart are in a locked, glass case. You have to ask an employee to hold one. Maybe BB guns should be treated the same to protect people from themselves.
Now comes the “blame game” & law suites:
1: Walmart didn’t force the gun into Crawfords hands, but does leave them in a box or blister packed on a shelf.
2: Crawford who broke the most important rule for gun safety, “Never point a gun at anything you don’t want to kill”.
3: People that thought they were in danger & called 911
4: Police that followed rules taught in training. Always assume the gun is loaded & the danger is real.
5: EDUCATION. Our country has changed & we need to teach them how to react to dangerous situations.
This is a tragedy & everyone touched by it will be changed.
I hope WE learn from this.
I could not agree with you more. Basicly, the same thing that I saw to Mr. A West in a post above. This guys family should not be paid for his stupidity and I hope if it goes that far that a jury sees it that way.
Stupidity is not an honorable death. The guy was obviously an asshole. The gene pool is better off without him.
My thoughts exactly!
If anything I feel sorry for the police, having to go through all the mental trauma involved.
It’s not a toy, it shoots a BB or pellet projectile that can cause injury or death. It is highly irresponsible for a news reporter or any adult to characterize such an item a toy when in fact it should be handled and cared for like any other firearm. It is NOT a toy and should never be
referred to in such a manner . Shame on the news person.
That is not a toy gun, a pellet air Gun can Kill11
Kill what? A mouse? You are misinformed if anything. The rifle in question can shoot up to 600 fps but is advertized at 800fps Now at 800 FPS will a pellet break the skin? Yes more then likely, Will it go in as far enough to kill a human being?
Maybe if hit directly in the heart. After looking at a ballistic gel test on the crossmen and a gammo it did penetrate about 5 inches but BG doesn’t have muscle, Bone and other things to get through. Not only that but either one of these rifle would have to be PUMPED UP 10 TIMES, And several moves would have to be made before shooting.
In this case I think this was a bad shoot on the police and no reason to give the kid a chance to lower the gun. They fired at him without just cause. Just like another 5 kids who have been killed by police in the past few years.
Few decades ago there was a coroners report published in a Gun Digest. A case where a boy shot his 5mm Sheridan rifle through a hanging sheet (on a clothes line) hitting his sister. She died. Pellet rifles can easily kill with a heart or head shot. They are not toys.
I saw a very young girl who sustained a skull fracture and subsequent intercranial bleed from a bb gun accident. They can kill, yes they can.
This guy didn’t appear to be threatening anyone though. I didn’t see him point it at anyone from what I saw.
But benefit of doubt given to those actually there.
It’s irresponsible reporting to call this thing as toy, period. I had a crossman that I took squirrels with. If shot in the right place IT COULD kill a human. How the hell would the police know how many times he pumped it before they arrived. I’m of the opinion that stupidity should be painful. Sometimes it’s deadly also. A question that comes to mind, how did his wife know he was on the ground when they ordered him down?
I can not believe that you are playing semantics. As an officer responding to this scene; am I supposed to stop and ask does this weapon shoot 600fps or 800fps? Am I supposed to ask is that weapon real? Anybody who carries a weapon such as the police and as I do; are taught that hesitation will get you kill. I am not going to play what if or as you state “Maybe if hit directly in the heart” with my life. There was a special notice going out to all law enforcment stating that the gang banger and alike persons are now paint orange markings on the tips of real guns to make the police officer’s think that they were “Toys”. The results were to get officer’s to hesitate and possible be shot. You are WRONG! The office involved will be place on paid leave behind a desk. This shooting will be ruled justifiable. If you don’t want to get shot, stop doing stupid stuff with weapons. Follow the safety RULES for handling weapons. Don’t get me wrong. Officer’s that misuse there authority, fire there weapon with out cause should be held responsible. I am looking closely at the case that just happened outside of St. Louis, MO I do believe that something very wrong with that case.
This kid was 22.
When I was 22 I had served two tours of Vietnam and had learned not to point a gun at someone you were not prepared to kill, and if a gun was pointed at you you had better react quickly.
If the cops say “drop it” you should not try to debate whether the gun you are waving around is real or not, because the guns they have are.
Had his gun been real and he had shot someone because the responders had hesitated for a fraction of a second then it would have and should have been time to criticize the action of the police.
He is not misinformed. You are. I have a bb gun that has the same muzzle velocity as a .22 caliber rifle. A .22 can kill, so can the pellet gun.
He is not misinformed, you are. I have a bb/pellet rifle that has the same muzzle velocity of a .22 caliber rifle. It is one of the break barrel designs. One pump is all you get per shot. A .22 can kill, so can the bb/pellet rifle.