YouTube to Censor Gun Conversion, Modification Videos

YouTube is cracking down on bump stock videos and other content that illustrates how to increase a firearm’s rate of fire. (Photo: YouTube)

YouTube announced this week that it will be expanding it’s pre-existing policy against “harmful and dangerous content” to include videos that show viewers how to modify firearms vis a vis bump stocks and other accessories that may increase a gun’s rate of fire.

“We have long had a policy against harmful and dangerous content,” a YouTube spokesman said in an email to The Hill.

“In the wake of the recent tragedy in Las Vegas, we have taken a closer look at videos that demonstrate how to convert firearms to make them fire more quickly and we’ve expanded our existing policy to prohibit these videos,” it continued.

The California-based video-sharing behemoth also said that it will ban “videos that sell and promote firearms as well as conversion devices and bump stocks.”

To what extent this affects GunsAmerica and other pro-gun tubers remains to be seen. At the time of writing this, all our bump stock videos are still live on YouTube.

SEE ALSO: Feinstein Introduces Bump Stock Ban Legislation with GOP Support

I don’t want to be chicken little and scream that the “Sky is falling” as it relates to free speech on YouTube but at the same time it’s hard not to see this as a slippery slope.

Just as we view Feinstein’s latest bill to ban bump stocks, known as the Automatic Gun Fire Prevention Act, as a way to open the door to more onerous prohibitions, YouTube’s expanded policy should be cause for alarm.

I’m not going to open up a can of worms here and talk specifics, but anyone who knows anything about guns knows that there are certain accessories, conversions, and modifications out there that improve the shoot-ability of a firearm.

SEE ALSO: FPSRussia Rumors Confirmed, YouTuber Facing Possible Drug Charges

Will the algorithm that YouTube designs to screen for gun modifications cast such a wide net that any improvement in shoot-ability is immediately flagged as “harmful and dangerous”? Or will it be refined enough to only focus on bump stocks and their ilk? And what happens if/when there is another mass killing? Will YouTube continue to expand its ban yet again, to include more gun-related content?

I guess we’ll have to wait and see. What we do know, however, is that censorship usually moves in one direction. Once it starts growing, it doesn’t stop.

{ 80 comments… add one }
  • BRENT BOCNUK October 15, 2017, 5:31 pm

    I will not support you tube if they ban gun videos.

  • Jay October 15, 2017, 5:11 am

    Not much to say about it really. It was about as inevitable as night following day. Since the programming is privately owned, they have the right to control whatever is put up through their site as they choose, even if it means trampling others rights. We also have the right to not support their site.

  • elgavilansegoviano October 14, 2017, 8:00 pm

    ……Google which owns YouTube is about to loose Millions and Millions of Customers and Money!!,….Most stupid Lefty Liberal business decision ever!,….Yet they are willing to show the crappiest, stupidest videos!!…. they are joining the Anti-Gunners, Anti 2nd Amendment ban wagon!!,…..The result won t be pretty I tell you that much!!,….

  • George Henry Mayerhofer October 14, 2017, 3:57 pm

    We don’t need youtube. We don’t need google. When its time, these and others will go away when civil war or world war arrives to the United States Of America. It has to be like this. America dose not need this idol concepts. They must be removed. Real easy to do.

  • forestman52 October 13, 2017, 11:26 pm

    Here is a possible alternative to YouTube for those wanting to post gun videos.
    https://gundistrict.com/videos

  • LARRY TOOMEY October 13, 2017, 10:56 pm

    I HOPE I CAN GET MY QUICK SHOT FAST AUTO RELOADER ((( FLIP STOCK )))) ON BEFORE THEY BAN IT TO. THEY ALREADY BANED MY FOOT BALL BAT.

  • Dave October 13, 2017, 8:48 pm

    It pretty much means the END of You Tube as a social media site. It’s on its ‘death bed’ as we speak, creators are leaving in droves!

  • Brad October 13, 2017, 8:09 pm

    Sounds like an excellent opportunity for a start-up website, “GunTube,” an America supporting website that features any, and everything having to do with firearms, and only firearms. It would surely save people a significant amount of time by not having to scroll through all the Hollywood / communist-themed videos currently being offered on YouTurd.

    Hopefully, someone has already started the development of such a website.

    • vandal October 14, 2017, 3:26 pm

      well, if it’s such a great idea, why don’t you put your own money and time into it.
      You guys really think YouTube is going to fail because they’re doing the responsible thing? lmao! Shutting down vids that make it easier for criminals, thugs terrorists, and the mentally ill from gearing up protects you and your kids far more than your personal arsenal. There’s plenty of ways for like minded individuals to share information, without posting public vids that everyone in the world, can access for free.

      Saying that Paddock bought his guns legally completely misses the point. Bump Stocks should be made illegal, because they are nothing more than a work-around for automatic conversions. Go tell the families of the Las Vegas victims that Paddock didn’t actually have an automatic rifle, because it didn’t meet the legal definition. Maybe that will bring their loved ones back. The law needs to be changed.

      I was a NRA member back in the 60s, before it became a propaganda wing of the GOP. I own guns, and know how to use them. I don’t have automatic weapons, nor do I have silencers for my handguns, even though I have a Bridgeport, a toolroom lathe, and could easily make dozens of them.

  • JungleCogs October 13, 2017, 7:01 pm

    All these “social communtion” (though I find them more talking ‘at’ someoney than true communicating ‘with’ someone) sights have garnered way to much power… though mostly with the simple minded.

  • Patrick Hebert October 13, 2017, 4:52 pm

    Well the way I look at it we don’t need YouTube telling me what to talk about so this is the last time I use YouTube

  • Darryl October 13, 2017, 3:14 pm

    Cali.’s own lady anti-gunner Diane Feinstein has said on video that no law would have stopped this guy from doing what he wanted to do. he got all his guns legally. so if she the one person who has said she would take all guns away from everyone if she could says that no law would have stopped him why do you think she still wants to pass gun laws she already knows won;t do any good. it’s the frog in the pot of water on the stove, turn the heat up a little at a time and before the frog knows it he is already cooked. take away a little of our Constitutional gun rights away a little at a time and before we know it we have no 2nd Amendment right any more.

  • Damon Edwards October 13, 2017, 3:03 pm

    A proper debate on one’s right to keep and bear arms is NOT one that is framed in the terms of whether you can feel safe from wicked and depraved people, full of hate and mallace, who want to hurt you. You will NEVER feel safe from those people and those people will not cease to exist just because YOU are not allowed to legally own a gun. Why? Because those people do not care about laws and they will always find a way to hurt and destroy, with or without gun laws.

    http://krisannehall.com/lesson-gun-control-2/

  • Campbell King October 13, 2017, 1:02 pm

    Good for them ! If we gun owners don ‘t police ourselves with this stupid stuff we will loose more rights eventuallky…Nobody needs a semi- machine gun unless they get an orgasm from spraying bulklets fasater than you can buy them..I love my guns but bumpfires are stupid inventions.

    • Darryl October 13, 2017, 3:08 pm

      you really think that will stop if you give them a little like you say? they won’t the more they take the more they will want to keep taking. ow about we give up your right to free speech? no you say they won’t ever want to do that. they will once they get around to taking all your guns away as that is their only end game.

    • will calley October 13, 2017, 11:46 pm

      man , ur from a troll farm. so where r u replying from china, pakistan, noko?
      Here is the best example of a troll post bad spelling (english 2nd language) and a comment thats sure to stir things up and make likeminded fight amoung ourselves.

      • Kevin October 15, 2017, 9:57 pm

        Actually Darrayl is right. They want to take 1st and 2nd amendment rights from you. They need to take 2nd from u 1st, so u can be a helpless little sheep. I’m from Texas just in case u needed to know

    • Jay October 15, 2017, 5:08 am

      “Need” as a mean’s test is the product of the vicious, power grabbing liberal. Considering your spelling, you just might want to think twice about spewing comments about “simple-minded.”
      And another thing, who appointed YOU as the definer of “stupid” stoopid? What if I think YOUR guns are stupid or maybe that your spelling renders you to mentally challenged to own firearms? Hmmmm?! Frankly, I own a bump fire stock and rather enjoy it once in a while since I haven’t the financial resources necessary to own conventional full auto weapons reserved for the priveledged. I just happened to think it’s fun occasionally.
      One last note. Here’s a real corker for you. A bump fire stock is not really required to do “bump fire.” Holly weird has been doing it in movies for years. If you want to control bump fire, the next ‘logical’ step for any well meaning liberal (well meaning FOR liberals that is…) is a ban on and confiscation of ALL semi-auto matic firearms. That would include your grand-pappy’s favorite classic deer rifle such as many a fine old Remington or Browning auto-rifle, BAR, (NOT the same as the classic WWII military BAR machine rifle). Unfortunately, those related knee jerk reaction consequenses don’t generally occur to such as you, uhh, err, I mean, the simple minded. You can bet it’s in the mind of politians promoting such legislations though!

  • Tommy Barrios October 13, 2017, 12:34 pm

    The more they want do that kind of stuff, the MORE I want to start my OWN Social Media format that gives the BIG MIDDLE FINGER to ButtBook, Twitville, and ScrewTube!

  • Dman October 13, 2017, 12:33 pm

    I dont understand why no one has created a competition to youtube. There are other search engines to use other than google ..and some of them dont record your searches like google does.

    • Darryl October 13, 2017, 3:05 pm

      DuckDuckGo is a search engine that dosen’t store or track and place you go on the web.

    • Altoid October 14, 2017, 12:05 pm

      Neither does IXQUICK

  • walt graham October 13, 2017, 11:55 am

    They are in California. That explains everything!

  • Concerned Citizen October 13, 2017, 11:50 am

    I understand you tube’s motivation to censor this type of video but it is based on a reaction to a horrible act by an individual. When you start censoring content were does it stop. Who makes decisions on what gets censored what doesn’t, what are the rules for what can’t be posted? There is a lot of crazy violent content on you tube that isn’t censored. As a gun owner I am against bump stocks, that is my opinion. Many other gun owners have a different opinion on bump stocks and I respect their view point. My opinion carries no more weight than those who have a different opinion. You tube needs to understand the violent act in LV was done by a sick crazy individual. When they start censoring content based on their opinions the site will become less relevant. Banning content means that individuals seeking that content will just go to another site to view it.

    • Rocke October 13, 2017, 5:30 pm

      Well said Concerned Citizen! No matter how you frame it, this is censorship based on Google/YouTube’s option. Gee what a surprise.

  • Franko October 13, 2017, 10:33 am

    “sell and promote firearms”

  • Chris Hodges October 13, 2017, 10:28 am

    What REALLY bothers me is how YouTube has started demonitizing videos that show violence and/ or any video they deem inappropriate. I watch a few YouTubers who upload World of Warships and World of Tanks (not that I play them – they’re just entertaining). Even THEIR videos are getting the YouTube rogering! For what??? I’m gonna guess that channels like Hickok45 and Iraqveteran8888 have had similar issues….God forbid you shoot for fun then record it. Dullards.

  • psk October 13, 2017, 10:26 am

    Look at who OWNS YouTube: Google.

    The constitution protects The People from THE GOVERNMENT. NOT from the likes of Microsoft, Bill Gates, Soros, Zuckerberg, AND GOOGLE. These are the sons of bachelors that want to “own” your minds AND DISARM YOU.

  • Tim S October 13, 2017, 10:04 am

    We need to attack this exactly like the Christian bakers have been attacked. We need to sue them and have a court decide that you cannot discriminate against constitutionally protected people. It should make it all the way to the USSC because we know the liberal lower courts will rule against it. Any lawyers out there willing to walk the walk? This is denial of service.

  • Larry j kelley jr October 13, 2017, 9:59 am

    How can they ban the videos when the bump stock is still legal. And YouTube states there rules that any video show harmful videos that shows things let’s say like thugs jumping other people beating them. Atifa useing baseball bats,sticks ,poles, metal pipes, beating the hell out of People. That’s under there rules and regulations.
    Anything showing where harm is being committed.
    Really must be not who’s you know but who they blow, you know jobs

    • Larry j kelley jr October 13, 2017, 10:01 am

      Yes I mean who they are giving blow jobs to. I wonder if they know what tat means,

  • Mike Bolton October 13, 2017, 9:51 am

    So the terrorist antifa group can put out video after video about pure hate, but a how too video is dangerous?
    I say posting videos of police encounters is dangerous, and incites riots… its all subjective. For a “free society” seems we arent free at all, and as a matter of fact… America is #25 in personal freedoms, meaning 24 other countries are now better to live in than America.

  • pete October 13, 2017, 9:48 am

    Good. A tiny little step in the direction of caring for humanity. Those who worship massive fire power will have lots of other places to do it, but deep down they’re on the wrong side of history (and sanity). Sorry, this is where this gun nut gets off and joins the ‘enemy’. You should have been there at LV. Put yourselves in their shoes, just for a second.

    • Oaf October 13, 2017, 11:04 am

      Some of us have been putting ourselves in their shoes, and worse, for years and you don’t see us whining like a little b*tch over some videos. Sorry cupcake, but you can become a sheep if you want but don’t expect the sheepdog to follow.

    • Michael Keim October 13, 2017, 11:09 am

      Bye

    • Bigg dogg October 13, 2017, 12:26 pm

      Guns kill ppl? Wtf? We as humans are not in control of what happens to us but we do have a say in this country. Don’t be naive and ignorant ppl! Wake up ppl don’t be blinded by these jackass who try n Tell u what to eat, drink, watch, believe!! Be urself and quit being sheeple!! GDMF!

    • perlcat October 13, 2017, 12:48 pm

      The fastest way to convince the world you’re a pompous self-righteous a55 is to use the tired old “wrong side of history” as your clincher to an argument you cannot support.

  • John watkins October 13, 2017, 9:40 am

    Why doesn’t gunsamerica start it’s own web based videos? That way we can put what we want and don’t have to worry about breaches of both the first and second amendment.

  • Krugre1701 October 13, 2017, 9:34 am

    Looks like I won’t be watching you tube any more…. sellouts

  • joefoam October 13, 2017, 9:21 am

    Censorship, plain and simple. Hit them in the pocketbook and they will change. YouTube had to start somewhere, how about a new channel?

  • Dillon G October 13, 2017, 9:13 am

    But muslims and black thugs lives matter can streat torture and murder of white Christians, right?

    • Virus October 13, 2017, 9:55 am

      don’t bring Muslims and blacks and race in any of this. “The crusades !!!!?” you ignorant idiot .

    • Seriously? October 13, 2017, 10:29 am

      You forgot to add the rape and torture of of good Christian white women. If we are going back to the 50s and 60s way of thinking you might as well go all the way.

  • Ram6 October 13, 2017, 8:26 am

    A couple of points.
    1. YouTube is a private business, so they are full liberty to decide what to air and what not. I personally have no problem with this decision regarding the illegal modification of automatic weapons into full automatic. Bump stocks are legal and as such are still on the market, but YouTube is perfectly within it’s rights to not accept these instructional videos.
    2. All should understand that the First Amendment to the constitution does not enter into this at any time. The first amendment clearly states “Congress shall make no law… abridging the freedom of speech…” Note it specifically says “Congress shall make no LAW…” This amendment, contrary to popular belief applies solely to Congress enacting a law and has been expanded to include the government restricting free speech. In all other cases no one has “free speech” without any consequences. It would be nice if our public school systems, universities and of course the media would get this right.

    • Joe Mannix October 13, 2017, 8:55 am

      Point 1: You’re wrong. A private company cannot do whatever they please simply because they’re private. I wish they could, but they can’t, otherwise the government couldn’t force a Christian baker to make a gay couple a wedding cake, for example. The fact that YouTube is a behemoth monopoly only makes it worse for them. Question: Can they ban all videos from black folks or homosexuals simply because “they are at full liberty to decide what to air and what not?” I don’t think so. Shouldn’t a policy that forbids “harmful and dangerous content” also proscribe the celebration of antisocial behavior such as looting, drug use, or a call for public violence? Because clearly YouTube has no such proscription.

      • vandal October 14, 2017, 6:46 pm

        Discrimination against a protected class (race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, and familial status) is a completely different animal. You’re making an apples to fly swatter comparison.

        The baker has the right to decide what kinds of cakes to bake, just as YouTube has the right to decide what kinds of vids to post online. Neither business has the right to prohibit the purchase/use of their products based on the seven protected classes.

    • Don t October 13, 2017, 9:15 am

      A free press is key to a free society. We have none! They’ve subverted congress and control the press to include FB, YouTube and others but go ahead, believe it’s all ok. You and I may make it through but I doubt I children will!

      • Don t October 13, 2017, 9:17 am

        I know there are typos so no need to point them out. It’s early 👁

    • ranchdude October 13, 2017, 9:51 am

      And censorship is the polar opposite of free speech….

  • Jay October 13, 2017, 8:07 am

    There is an up side to this. Based on my interpretation they will be banning everything coming out of Hollywood!

    • Richard Saunders October 16, 2017, 2:09 pm

      My thoughts as well

  • corey October 13, 2017, 8:07 am

    But i’m sure they will still allow alcohol ads and the like which result in far more deaths.

    • Virus October 13, 2017, 9:58 am

      good point

  • Al October 13, 2017, 8:03 am

    Just unsubscribe from all your channels and leave a comment that tells the channel you do not accept or participate in anything that violates or limits your constitutional rights. if Youtube sees enough of a decline or a competitor come along they will listen. Look at the NFL as an example.

    • Scott in Atlanta October 13, 2017, 9:19 am

      I did exactly that. I no longer have a YouTube channel and will find another way when needed to share my videos. FIGHT BACK, PEOPLE! If we don’t fight this evil movement, funded of course by – who else? – George Soros, we will find ourselves in the same boat as the dimwitted Australians, but in much worse circumstances. Who doesn’t believe that when the radical Demonrats take power – those same Demons who daily talk about jailing or executing those who don’t believe in their Stalinist Utopia – we’ll need our weapons? They won’t take mine … period.

  • Wil Ferch October 13, 2017, 7:52 am

    The real problem is that Youtube will alwys be a left-leaning organization under its current ownership and we can expect more of the same….but the issue is that there is no real competition for a service that competes with Youtube. OK NRA and all you other like-kind guys…….how about being pro-active and create a gun-friendly Youtube equivalent?….instead of chasing me to join and be another dues paying member ?. It seems the NRA gets very vocal AFTER a certain incident occurs…..what about getting in front of the curve this time?

    • Scott in Atlanta October 13, 2017, 9:21 am

      I’m not sure I’d have chosen the NRA for your example. They have gone suspiciously squishy on this issue, quickly and happily ceding the fallacious argument to the Demons that bump stocks kill people, not evil people. Perhaps Gun Owners of America would’ve been a better choice, since they are trying to hold the line and counter the gun grabbers’ idiotic “logic”.

      • vandal October 14, 2017, 6:49 pm

        making bump stocks illegal takes away NOBODY’s gun.

    • Larry j kelley jr October 13, 2017, 10:03 am

      I wonder if they’re related to Mark Zuckerberg

  • Infidel762x51 October 13, 2017, 7:38 am

    Screw you tube, google, fakebook and the rest of these liberal sites. Don’t use them and don’t support their advertisers.

  • Ronnie October 13, 2017, 7:33 am

    Censorship is the death of FREEDOM

    • Virus October 13, 2017, 10:03 am

      well said.

  • JR October 13, 2017, 7:12 am

    Shouldn’t GunsAmerica be pointing readers to an open letter to YouTube or something? I’m actually ok with them censoring sear modification videos… but any lawful modifications should be allowed. We should assume they don’t know the differences and work to educate and inform them… and demonstrate the tribe that is gun owners.

  • Jay October 13, 2017, 7:02 am

    Whats next, restrictions on what you can put on your automobile and truck because it makes it go faster!?!?

    • Chris Hodges October 13, 2017, 10:23 am

      Jay-Z that’s currently the case here in Massachusetts- adding “non stock” parts to your vehicle will get you a ticket here for “defective equipment”. They’ve also changed how they perform vehicle inspections, which will supposedly “catch” those modifying their vehicles. I’m NOT even going to discuss our draconian gun laws….

  • Jay October 13, 2017, 7:00 am

    Any compromise on the Second Amendment means in the end No 2nd amendment! The Second is the most infringed upon and restricted human right! What do you think would happen if we applied the same infringements and restrictions to the First amendment? By the way, Youtube is also cracking down on the alternative news as they call it displayed on youtube and youtube is owned by Google, looks like we need to do some boycotting! Enough is Enough!

  • Alkemyst October 13, 2017, 5:58 am

    This no different than the progressive taxes the “progressives” would love to enforce. After you’ve taken 65% of my income, what assurance do I have that you won’t come back for 70%, or 75%, or the whole damn thing? After you criminalize bump fire stocks, what assurance do I have the you won’t come after the stock, or the trigger group, or the firing pin, or ANYTHING that actually makes MY weapon function to MY satisfaction, not YOUR level of comfort? The answer to both those question is (big reveal *sarc*) NONE. We have NO assurances that this will not progress any further. Even if we DID get those “assurances”, given politician’s past performances, there is no guarantee that politicians would abide THOSE “assurances”. This is another foot in the door to to attempt to disarm the law abiding public. It deserves to fail.

  • Ro Gal October 13, 2017, 5:01 am

    Typical knee jerk reaction from “sensitive and caring” progressive leftists, which is ban, erase or outlaw anything gun related.
    Where is there “concern” for the dozens of offensive, dangerous, and death causing videos on their website right now? Like how to build bombs, ISIS recruitment, Anti-US propaganda? This is really how a fascist group or in this case conglomeration work to impose their will on people, thus reducing ot totally taking away freedoms. Beware skeptics!

  • Dustin October 13, 2017, 3:38 am

    They want to suppress any fact-based resistance to their agenda. Control all speech platforms, censor the o es you drisagree with. Assure only your single agenda has a voice.

    It’s time for a civil war.

  • Jon Pulicicchio October 13, 2017, 3:07 am

    Jeesh,
    Leave it to the liberal losers at YouTube to play mommy to the viewers. Make law abiding citizens pay for the stupidity of others.

  • Will Drider October 11, 2017, 9:28 pm

    YTube is keeping right in line with te gun-grabbing Left. “Harmful and dangerous” thats laffable. Look at the hundreds of thousands of vids that Start “Hey watch this” or “don’t try this a home”. Everyone knows someone is going to get smashed or is taking a extreme risk. Thats clearly harmful and dangerous 99.9% of the time. Killing the selling or promoting a gun would ban all firearm reviews! Doesen’t YTube have a adult content component called RedTube? My assumption is it contains a legal forms of porn but that would allow rape, torture, bondage, sadism and masochism too. Users pay some amount for access so thats okay.

  • Richard Steven Hack October 11, 2017, 8:28 pm

    The Youtube ship has sailed. Youtube has been demonetizing gun channels AND political speech of a number of politically related channels under the guise of being “not advertiser-friendly”.

    That’s only going to get worse.

    Remember, folks, Google – which owns Youtube – was created by the CIA:

    How the CIA made Google
    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e

  • Mark N. October 11, 2017, 8:06 pm

    At this point in time, YouTube is not a “public forum” but a private business, and as such the First Amendment does not apply to its corporate decisions as to what to allow on its site. But at the same time, it is equally obvious that they want us and our kin gone, and will continue to ban content until that occurs, in the mistaken belief that if it isn’t on the air, so to speak, people will not know about such things and that the use of guns and accessories will decrease. Call it “social engineering,” if you will. It won’t work, but that really isn’t important.

    • JohnB October 13, 2017, 7:39 am

      GOOGLE is managed be very liberal Democrats who are gun haters. We are screwed.

    • Robert D Floyd October 13, 2017, 9:38 am

      Really? Let Google refuse to show any content that involves the promotion of homosexuality and see how many lawyers crawl out of the wall like cockroaches. What they are doing fits their narrative of the world. They know that they are safe from any threat of prosecution. They picked the industry as well as viewers well. Our group, who just happens to be the group will 99% of the guns, pretty much always gives in to the libtard pukes who do not have them the firearms. At what time does the second Amendment kick in the way our founding intended? We are surrounded by stupid lifetime politicians who spread another layer of shit by appointing and approving activist life time judges. Where are the so called conservative states screaming for a constitutional convention, and clean this crap up? Folks, they are all pretty much against us.

  • Robert Smith October 11, 2017, 7:48 pm

    Guns America and Gun Broker thrived as a result of Ebay’s refusal to allow gun sales. The more restrictive You Tube becomes, the easier it will be for competitors to move in and capture the gun video ad revenue You Tube doesn’t want. Full 30 is a step in that direction but they are also very restrictive about who they let post. I am sure some entrepreneur is already planning “Gun Tube” with an “anyone can post about anything gun related” policy. The free market always wins in the end.

  • Dilligaf October 11, 2017, 5:04 pm

    People in commiefornia are just dumb as fuck

    • Jo Ann October 13, 2017, 1:21 pm

      Wow, that comment really advances the narrative.

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