KRISS Vector CRB/SO™ and SBR/SO™ .45ACP Carbines

The KRISS Vector CRB/SO MSRP $1895 – Even though we have seen it for four years now and it has been featured ad nauseum on the Discovery Channel, it still looks kinda space-gun'y, but after spending a couple weeks with the gun I am a convert to the legion of true KRISS fans. In a pistol caliber carbine there really is nothing comparable on the market.
The KRISS Vector CRB/SO MSRP $1895 – Even though we have seen it for four years now and it has been featured ad nauseum on the Discovery Channel, it still looks  kinda space-gun-ish, but after spending a couple weeks with the gun I am a convert to the legion of true KRISS fans. In a pistol caliber carbine there really is nothing comparable on the market.
I feel that the 2nd generation features on the KRISS help justify its hefty Swiss price tag. The folding stock is not flimsy at all and clicks securely in both the folded and open position. The top rail is long enough for optics and night vision and the front grip comes standard.
I feel that the 2nd generation features on the KRISS help justify its hefty Swiss price tag.  The folding stock is not flimsy at all and clicks securely in both the folded and open position. The top rail is long enough for optics and night vision and the front grip comes standard.
Pictures are very difficult to capture the bolt mechanism of the KRISS. This picture is from the top looking down, parallel to the travel of the bolt. That spring squishes at the bottom of the handle. You can see the bolt just turning the corner to downwards here.
Pictures are very difficult to capture the bolt mechanism of the KRISS.  This picture is from the top looking down, parallel to the travel of the bolt. That spring squishes at the bottom of the handle. You can see the bolt just turning the corner to downwards here.
I was able to easily keep the KRISS within a two inch circle at 25 yards. The manufacturer recommends 230 grain roundball, but I think that is just because they are Swiss and the Geneva convention stipulates no hollowpoints. These Hornady Steel Match hollowpoint rounds shot really well in the gun.
I was able to easily keep the KRISS within a two inch circle at 25 yards. The manufacturer recommends 230 grain roundball, but I think that is just because they are Swiss and the Geneva convention stipulates no hollowpoints. These Hornady Steel Match hollowpoint rounds shot really well in the gun.
The recoil assembly of the Gen 4 guns (left) is much larger than the earlier Gen 3 recoil assembly (right).  I believe this is the single most significant improvement in the Gen 4 design.
The KRISS Vector takes down for cleaning easily with 4 thumb push pins and no tools.  This is as far as you need to take it down. .
This is an 18” x 12” target and I was easily able to keep the whole mag on target with rapid fire. Nobody will be safe when the zombies come, but at least I'll have a KRISS.
This is an 18” x 12” target and I was easily able to keep the whole mag on target with rapid fire.  Nobody will be safe when the zombies come, but at least I’ll have a KRISS.
The KRISS takes standard G21 mags, and it comes with two of these extensions for the 30 round variety made by KRISS. My gun came with the mags attached but I don't know what they are shipping with.
The KRISS takes standard G21 mags, and it comes with two of these extensions for the 30 round variety made by KRISS. My gun came with the mags attached but I don’t know what they are shipping with.
The SBR version of the KRISS is sold through Class 3 dealers, or KRISS can modify your gun once you have your Form 1 approved by BATFE.
The SBR version of the KRISS is sold through Class 3 dealers, or KRISS can modify your gun once you have your Form 1 approved by BATFE.
The ballistics of the 230 grain .45ACP are desirable for precise shots at estimated ranges over 50 yards. The point blank range for the cartridge isn't much beyond 25 yards.
The ballistics of the 230 grain .45ACP are desirable for precise shots at estimated ranges over 50 yards. The point blank range for the cartridge isn’t much beyond 25 yards.
KRISS Super V – Wins Best Close Quarter Combat Weapon.
Future Weapons- KRISS (Car Door Dummy Test)


Cool new guns always do well with the early adopter crowd, but seldom does a new firearm design last and thrive the way the KRISS Vector has since its introduction in 2007. You could not turn on the Discovery Channel back then without seeing the episode of Future Weapons that featured the KRISS. Now here we are in the future four years later, and the KRISS Vector has come into full consumer production, and it is again featured on TV. The Military Channel has named it the best close quarters combat weapon.

If you haven’t seen the KRISS on TV, it is truly a novel firearm. The patents are not just applied for, they are awarded.  Compared to other pistol caliber carbines and rifles, the KRISS is just simply different.  The bolt, upon firing, travels back and downwards, into the handle, and the recoil is absorbed in a spring in that downward position. The result is  significantly reduced felt recoil and muzzle climb.

For real or not?

I am always suspect of a gun that has had a lot of press and exposure, especially through TV, and few guns have had as much TV exposure as the KRISS Vector.  Add to that an MSRP starting at $1,895 (ouch). This is kind of the Swiss watch of guns.  You just have to ask yourself, is this truly a world class firearm, or is it just an expensive novelty?

I think the KRISS is for real.

In the past two weeks I have spent a lot of time with this rifle and fired over 1,000 rounds through it. I have also fired the full auto version this year at Media Day before SHOT Show in Las Vegas.  And while I can’t say that the KRISS was as easy to fire full-auto as the guy on the Discovery Channel makes it look, the muzzle climb does come in lower than the 9mm MP5s I have shot, and they are a much less potent caliber.  There is no comparison to the extreme muzzle climb of a .45ACP  MAC-10 carbine, and that gun is steel. The KRISS is definitely different, and easier to shoot.

Target  acquisition from second shot forward is something you really should try for yourself if you can find one as a rental gun at an indoor range. The KRISS has felt recoil!  From the media hype you would expect the gun to not kick at all, and whatdya know, it kicks. It doesn’t hurt your shoulder, but with your cheek down on the thin polymer skeletonized stock, you feel it.

For that reason, I wasn’t entirely sold on the gun until I attempted to unload the 30 round magazine on a one foot square steel plate at 25 yards.  I started slow, bang, bang, bang, clink clink clink. Then I increased speed, bang bang bang bang bang until I couldn’t pull the trigger any faster.  Every shot was clink clink clink clink clink.

Holding a 45ACP polymer carbine on target as fast as you can pull the trigger with no training and no practice is a feat for any gun. The KRISS delivers what it promises. It is one of the few guns on the market that are a completely new design (the Chiappa Rhino being the other one of note), and in a fickle gun market that doesn’t generally like new ideas, they do have a long road to travel.  But it’s a good gun. I was surprised.

The other thing I really like about the gun is that it has matured.  When you spend almost $2,000 on a firearm you really want it to do everything you need. We are many years down the road  from when rails became popular on combat firearms and I feel that any new or established product on the market should come standard with them at this point and the KRISS has them in all the right places. Although the fore-grip is not included, there is a top rail that is long enough for an optic as well as a night vision device. The folding stock (in the states where legal) is solid and effective, and the gun comes with extremely high quality AR-type sights made by KRISS themselves.  No other pistol caliber carbine comes with all this stuff, and even the majority of ARs still don’t.  Aftermarket parts, that you have to install, just aren’t the same. You need this stuff molded and built into the gun, and they are on the KRISS.

Accuracy is not as good as my other Swiss gun, the WWII era Schmidt Rubin K-31, but compared to other pistol caliber carbines it is pretty good.  Our test gun came in zeroed to point of aim at 25 yards, which is point blank range for the cartridge. I was easily able to keep 5 rounds within 2 inches at this distance. Other .45 caliber carbines, from the “Grease Gun” to the Thompson to the MAC-10 are considered “spray and pray” guns.  With the recoil and muzzle climb advantages of the KRISS and the actual physical accuracy of the gun, even rapid fire or possibly even full auto aimed fire is realistic.

There is also an important Glock 21 connection for those who are in the law enforcement community.   The KRISS Vector actually ships with a 13 round .45ACP G21 magazine (where legal) and the extended 30 round magazine that you see in the pictures here is a G21 magazine with an extension, made by KRISS, to turn the 13 round mag into 30 rounds.  This allows police officers who elect to carry the G21 as a duty pistol a great deal more instant firepower should they lose their rifle, or fail to acquire their rifle in time for a gunfight. The extended mags do still fit the G21.  So, in a law enforcement setting where the officer is most likely carrying the full-auto KRISS, you have both an entry carbine and lots of backup ammo for your pistol, all at the same time.

The .45ACP Cartridge

No conversation about the KRISS is complete without considering why you would want one in the first place. In an age where the AR-15 has  become the standard in both law enforcement and military/tactical settings, you have to ask if there is room for a pistol caliber rifle in today’s tactical arsenal.

The answer is yes for a few reasons. One is that the AR-15 is not as universal as one might think for police use. In fact many departments specifically don’t allow the AR or the .223 cartridge for police officers. I won’t get into why, but it is mostly due to misinformation, where political forces  have decided that the .223 is “too powerful” a cartridge for street use and therefore has no place in an urban police setting. For these departments, the only option may be a pistol cartridge, and compared to the other offerings out there, the .45ACP KRISS Vector is head and shoulders a better performer.

The other main reason is the .45ACP cartridge itself and its heavy 185-230 grain bullet.  At an average velocity of 907 feet per second and a 230 grain bullet I measured out of the 16 inch barrel on the KRISS, it equates to 420 foot pounds of energy.  A standard 55 grain AR bullet traveling at 3,240 feet per second equals 1,282 foot pounds of energy.

You would think this amounts to night and day, or apples and oranges when it comes to stopping power, but it doesn’t in practical use. The .45ACP has a long history of being a manstopper, and this isn’t reflected in the equation for foot pounds of energy that heavily favors velocity because it is squared. In practical terms, the .45ACP is at least as effective as the .223 in open flight, and the bullet has enough weight to pound through car doors, wall studs and windows and still remain effective, whereas the light and hot .223 tends to burn out on the first thing it hits. You don’t want to be that first thing of course, but two layers of sheet rock is an effective barrier to slow down a .223, let alone a wall stud or junction box.

And one more reason, perhaps the biggest reason for many, is that the .45ACP in 230 grains is sub-sonic. There is no sonic boom when you fire it, so with a suppressor it makes little if any noise.  All other carbine calibers require some sort of compromise in ballistics to keep the cartridge under the speed of sound.  Either you end up shooting a bullet that is too long for the rifling, or the velocity that makes the cartridge popular and effective is cut down severely. With the .45ACP you get to shoot the full power manstopper cartridge with no compromise, and it is well under the speed of sound.

The SBR and Pistol Versions

Probably the coolest thing you can do with a KRISS is have it made into a “Short Barreled Rifle” or SBR. This involves the legalities of Class 3 weapons and requires a special permit that you obtain from the BATFE on what is called a Form 1. Not all states allow civilian ownership of SBRs and I have not been able to find a comprehensive list states that do and don’t by googling around. KRISS also sells an SBR version called the SBR/SO. Talk to your local gun shop if you want to go this route and they will tell you what you can and can’t do in your state.

An SBR is a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches.

You may ask, what constitutes a rifle to begin with? The answer is a firearm that shoots a single projectile and that it has barrel over 16 inches. A rifle is legally allowed to have a shoulder stock. A pistol, legally, has a less than 16” barrel, and cannot legally have a shoulder stock (or a front grip).

Don’t worry you aren’t the first person to find this confusing. But if you think about it, in a system where you want pistols and rifles to have different legal rules (we at GunsAmerica of course don’t want that), the government has to set legal definitions as to what these things actually are and how you tell them apart.

The SBR is a legal exclusion. It can have a pistol length barrel and a shoulder stock. The permit you obtain from the BATFE costs $200 and if it is available in your state, is said to take several months to come back. Once you have the permit you are then allowed to either cut down your own barrel, or if you want to retain the warranty, send it to KRISS to have it replaced. They can also thread it for a suppressor, which if you want one of those is another form and another tax.

I don’t want to sound like a sales pitch. KRISS is advertising on the website so it is easy to seem that way, but I feel that if you find the SBR compelling, the KRISS is really the gun to put your money into. I can’t say I’ve ever loved the MP5, but it is a pretty good gun. The MAC-10, especially these high end ones coming out of Masterpiece Arms, are one of my favorite guns ever. The KRISS is just truly in a class by itself when it comes to a pistol caliber carbine.

The pistol version of the KRISS has also come out this year, but I haven’t had a chance to try one. The only thing I am weary about with it is that it has the front rail like the rifle. PLEASE BEWARE, it is illegal to put a front grip on a pistol. This is not a heavily publicized law and most people are ignorant of this fact. Some states have a constructive possession law, and while I don’t know how this would effect a police officer who finds an XD in your car with a not attached pistol grip, I think the reaction is a lot more risky with a KRISS and a not attached pistol grip. It is sad that law abiding Americans have to deal with the nuances of poisoned political posturing, but that is the way it is.


We are now 4 years down the road from the introduction of the KRISS in 2007.  When I look at the curved slot that the bolt travels around, I wonder about it. But if that curved internal slot was a problem wear part, or if the bolt didn’t hold up after 5,000 rounds, we’d hear about it by now. I think the fact that we haven’t heard about any of these obvious initial first concerns is evidence that the gun holds up.

The only issue I had with the gun was an initial break-in period of a few magazines, but I guess if you can afford to buy the KRISS you can afford to shoot it.  We did have some light strikes on some sealed military looking primers, but I think they were just out of spec hard primers.

I fed the KRISS everything from Hornady Critical Defense, to Steel Match, to the plain old 230 grain roundball that the manufacturer recommends.  Even old dirty homemade 230 grain leadheads pushed by 5.5 grains of Unique didn’t slow the gun down, and it didn’t fail to function no matter how dirty it got. The brass bent a little from hitting the top of the ejection port, and that lip was beat up some by the ejected cases. I don’t know if it was just the ejector on my gun doing this or if they all do that, but it didn’t affect the function.

Early Adopters:  Press 1 for Swiss

Can you imagine what it would be like if people who bought 4 year old model TVs were considered early adopters?

I don’t see the KRISS becoming ubiquitous anytime soon, but this latest version has definitely brought the gun out of its novelty status.  If you can afford it as an early adopter, I think it is a safe purchase that will be reliable, do what you want it to do, and for sure get you some looks at the range.  If you carry a G21 for duty use, the KRISS is a no-brainer as opposed to an AR.

The only downside to it is the long range ballistics of the .45ACP.  If you zero at 25 yards there is a 6.5 inch drop at 75 yards and 14.5 inches at 100 yards.  That  is slightly outside the range you can easily estimate with your eye.  A 185 grain bullet will shoot a little flatter.

The upside is the benefit of sustainable on-target rapid fire without a lot of practice or training. If I can do it, you can too, I assure you.  If there is a true novelty to the KRISS, this is it.

The gun does what it says it does, and it does so reliably and with all the features that you need.  The gun does kick. Don’t be disappointed if you buy it and get your face a little too close to the folding stock button and get clipped by it when you fire.  It isn’t some kind of space weapon that negates the physics of the slow and heavy .45ACP bullet. This isn’t a video game.

After a lot of time with the KRISS Vector, starting out extremely skeptical of it, I think the KRISS is a good gun and will serve you well.  I also think it is here for the long haul and will hold its value, so you really have nothing to lose by trying one.

You can find one on GunsAmerica here


{ 36 comments… add one }
  • Kevin March 9, 2015, 11:15 pm

    I’ve owned a Kriss SBR now for a little over a year and probably close to 2,000 rounds. I have several SBR’s in AR platform in 7″ to 10″ in 5.56 and 6.8mm.

    The only real issue I’ve seen on occasion is you have to be sure the bolt fully closes when loading the first round. Sometimes it doesn’t like cheap Russian ammo. Any other ammo and its flawless. Have an ACC t-rant suppressor. It cycles perfect suppressed and always draws a crowd.

    Accuracy. I first had an Eotech Exps 3-0 on it. Accuracy was acceptable. I replaced the Eotech with an Aimpoint compm4s. Huge difference. I can hit an IPC66 target 10 for 10 at 100 yards. 8 inch gong 8 out of 10 at 100 yards. It has fare less kick and muzzle rise over my 5.56 SBR making follow up shots quicker. With my set up I would feel extremely comfortable engaging any target out to 100 yards.

  • RJ October 1, 2014, 10:42 pm

    I’ve owned my Kriss Vector for around 4 months. The take down pin where the bolt mechanism follows gets chewed-up pretty well. It’s a good close shooter but whoever says there little to no recoil is wrong on the second point. There definitely recoil and muzzle climb – perhaps just managed better. I see a lot of failure to feed issues from different people. I’ve gotten some stove pipes but they are quickly cleared and again shooting. The accuracy doesn’t seem to be an issue for mine and I get good groups at reasonable range. Taking it beyond 50 yds is a stretch but have actually shot it up to 100 yds with a 6 inch drop compensation.

    Have any other owners seen the take down pins get chewed-up on theirs? I’m trying to figure out if mine is defective. I’m hoping not given the horror stories I’ve seen for turn-around. I could just buy new pins but that seems like a short-term solution at best.

  • Peter Procanyn July 29, 2014, 9:14 pm

    Love 45 cal but don’t have dispose-able cash

  • Danny Wright March 24, 2014, 11:26 am

    Well I got my Vector back. Kriss had it over 8 weeks, not a thing was fixed. After a call to them and an email all I came out with is the gun will not group after 25 or so yards. If you want to go to 50 yards you will get 5-6 inch grouping. I got 10 -12 inch groups with the one I have at 50 yards. My $75.00 SKS will do better than that. My 1911, that I have had for over 30y will do better than that. I think I’ve got $40 in it.

    All in all, I’ve got a gun that want group. Its up for sale. Got to see if I can get back some of the money I’ve got into it. If you want it, let me know.


  • Danny Wright March 4, 2014, 8:01 pm

    The KRISS people has had my Vector for 7 weeks, 01-14-14. I not had a word from them in weeks now about my $1800+ gun. So far, they have had it longer than I have. I do not know how much more time it will take to fix.
    If the KRISS is so good, why is it taking so long to fix?

  • Danny Wright January 23, 2014, 9:05 pm

    I have a KRISS. I’ve have put about 50rd on target. The KRISS may be a good carbine. but I don’t see it. It will not hit the same place. You have got to let cool off after each rd. There is no accuracy with the carbine that I have. I have just sent it back to KRISS. I hope that they can fix it. $1,800+ is bunch just to spray a target.

    • Kevin March 9, 2015, 10:58 pm

      I can go 10 for 10 on an IPC66 target at 100 yards with and aimpoint compm4s as an optic. My Kriss is more accurate at 75-100 yards than my 9 inch SBR.

  • zar October 11, 2013, 10:22 pm

    totall piece of shit i bought 2 of them both have
    the same problems jam jam jam this is the 2nd time
    i have sent them back i am no hater own over 50
    different firearms never seen this kinda problem
    before buyer beware dont buy totally respected
    the opinion of guns america untill now maybe they got
    one that didnt jam do the research on the web iam not the
    only one complaining kriss can kriss my ass no way would i trust my life this gun let alone any police or militay does
    way to go made in the u.s.a. one of the biggest reasons i bought it in the first place

    • Administrator October 12, 2013, 11:04 pm

      We shot our extensively and it never had an issue.

    • mmartin110 February 4, 2016, 12:30 am

      You need to use correct ammo

  • Chris October 12, 2012, 8:56 pm

    I don’t see a lot of mention of the simple breakdown of this weapon. It makes the AK seem almost complicated when cleaning. Less moving parts= reliability when done correctly and Kris’s Vector nailed it. Only down side of my crb is the weighted barrel that I’m willing to pay the class 3 tax to remove. Also sucks can’t be full auto but at least I’m not in Canada and couldn’t even own the semi version I guess.

  • Henry August 12, 2012, 1:06 pm

    I know this article is about the KRISS, but I need to digress for a moment. You are a retard if you think the .223 can’t punch through two layers of sheet-rock and still be lethal. In a firefight in Iraq, we shot through a wall that was basically a couple layers of plywood glued together and we had no trouble killing the insurgent on the other side. In fact, when the .223 was first introduced, it proved so effective in combat that the Soviet Union studied it and made their own version (the 5.45×39). I am a huge fan of the .45 ACP round, but stating that it can hold its own against a rifle round is laughable. I’d like to see you step into a combat situation with a .45 ACP and take a 200 yard shot at a haji who is lobbing AK-47 rounds at you. For as bad at shooting as Iraqis are, they’d certainly kill you before you killed them.

    • Sgt Harmon September 27, 2012, 6:08 pm

      ” In a firefight in Iraq, we shot through a wall ”

      You call playing video games in your mom’s basement a “firefight in Iraq”? I see you upgraded to the x-ray vision as well. Congrats, loser.

  • Michael July 3, 2012, 6:27 pm

    This seems to be an outstanding weapon for dynamic entry teams. It would make an excellent home defense weapon as well. Hey just think of the aplications for it to be used against zombies!!! LOL

  • Marcus June 27, 2012, 5:09 am

    I thin the pont was mised a little bit here the weapon is desinged for close quartes combat. Most likly a home entry situation, not for actual battle field combat. .45 ACP is a great round for killing bad guys who break into your home or bad guys hold up with a hostage or two. We all know 5.56, 7.62, and 6.8 will be king of a battle ground situation but i thin the gun could be very prctical for a home defense weapon and certinaly a good time to just go shoot.

  • Ian May 6, 2012, 7:34 pm

    I’ve fired a lot of guns ranging from this to that but this one is and probably always will be my favorite. It’s very compact with little to no recoil, amazing accuracy & firing speed, and easy to switch from single shot to fully auto to 3-round burst. It’s not a minigun, but for close quarters you can definitely feel the power in this baby. 5 out of 5 stars from me.

    FYI: a 30-round clip won’t last 2seconds on fully.

  • Dave Orwell June 23, 2011, 12:42 pm

    Beautiful weapon. Saw it on Discovery Channel. If only I didn’t have other bills to pay, I would buy one of these.

  • SpookyCarbine June 20, 2011, 12:44 pm

    I just bought the SBR a few days ago and did this free storm case promotion, too. Cant wait for the gun to arrive!

    In my opinion, this platform will make for a perfect home defense gun. I will be putting an Aimpoint Red Dot sight on mine and will get the extended GLOCK Mags. I hope it’s worth the $$$, and if nothing else, I will have a really fun range gun and may even make it into a hog killer!

    Thanks for the great articles – keep ’em comin!

  • KFra June 19, 2011, 2:35 am

    The author of this article really thinks 2 layers of sheet rock is an “effective barrier” for a .223 round? Really?

    • M Wall July 18, 2011, 4:16 am

      Yeah, its funny. He mentions .223 having a political stigma, but not that it got it from incidents of overpenetration. Or that the reason most special tactics groups(and anyone with a brain) use rifle caliber weapons is that if a subject is wearing body armor, a .45 will leave a nasty bruise, maybe break a rib, whereas the. 223 will blast right through kevlar. And if he’d ever had the “pleasure” of having a suspect popping .223 rounds through an exterior wall while he was preparing for entry, he would probably change his mind on that point rather quickly.

  • J D Heiney June 17, 2011, 10:50 pm

    Really nice carbine, I’d love to own one…

  • Dave June 17, 2011, 10:19 am

    I cannot help but think if I were going to drop serious cash on a niche weapon, which any sub gun is, I’d beg KA for their PDW. The 6×35 is undoubtedly a better choice in almost all scenarios than a pistol caliber. So, for that matter, is 5.56 is you elect to use any of several “barrier blind” choices rather than cheap ball ammo. I don’t work in close enough quarters to justify going for the smaller, lighter sub-gun over an M4 (or similar) rifle…particularly given that the 5.56 has negligible recoil in the first place. In my mind’s eye, the KRISS competes with the P90, the KA PDW and the MP5…if you need one of those weapons, it might be worth a look…otherwise, it’s a novelty.

    • Muhjesbud, Chicago, Il. June 18, 2011, 8:57 am

      I think the mp-5 is overpriced and more obsolete than other ‘obsolete’ guns. as you pointed out, the subguns have a ‘narrowed’ mission profile, steady supressing firepower against multiple enemy in close quarters for forward advancement. Any subgun that doesn’t have the mag in the pistol grip to me is archaic design. And until they come up with one small lightweight round that hits like a .44 mag at 300 meters in 50 round magazines in a platform compact enough to feel like your carrying a slightly overweight pistol, then people will continue to use battle rifles in urban shootouts, and sub guns on battlefields.

      Hey! maybe thats why the Ruskies came up with the AK-pistol? what was it called? I think you can pick these up at gun shows for 500 bucks. Only as a pistol for legality. But Fitted with a wire form collapsible stock, or even the side folder, and ‘other than mil ball ammo’ and you might have a fairly versatile pdw at a fraction of the cost of one of the new entries? the firepower more than makes up for the slight obesity (but it ain’t any worse than this Kriss) and! you can put in a drum mag for those special ‘up close and dirty’ moments!

      Also, not long ago i fired an AR-15 platform without the standard gas system so it didn’t have a buffer tube but it was
      set up with a custom wire pull out stock, ala Mac Ten, and it had the 10 inch .223 barrel with short flash suppressor. and Boy, was that nice! in terms of weight and compact handling and accuracy.. This could be fitted into a side or shoulder holster! like you carry your roofing drill! Offered the guy 2 grand for it right there but he wouldn’t sell it. I remember my CAR-15 in the jungles was just a 10 inch barrel with a six inche extended flash suppressor. and that worked fine in all sorts of conditions and ranges and did a lot of ‘damage’.

      And what about if you added one of those five-seven horizontal magazine uppers they have now for AR’s to this type of compact lower receiver. you essentially might have a better pdf than all the rest??!

      When you look into it deeply. At this point not much is ‘really’ new in guns. The Russian stuff is almost completely ignored and in my opinion beats most lof the other stuff. Their subguns, like the AEK-919 are great. They had an AK style 9mm pdf weighing 5.5 pounds with a helical under the barrel ala ‘grenade launcher look’ that held 65 rounds, with side folding stock.

      Finally, they arrived at an extremely compact OTS-22 9mm subgun for concealed carry. with a nice over the top integrated folding stock. (but i’ve seen a tricked out M9 Beretta with select fire capabilities. Even had a little fold down/up integrated forward grip. couldn’t tell it any different from the civilian version. Slap in a 30 round mag and guess what you got? maybe even a better version of the ots if you can configure it with an invisible folding stock until you need it?! But all these still would be copies of something else. which is a copy of a previous one, which is a knock off of a UZI, which was taken from the grandaddy of all modern subs, the CZ-25/26. If you evern notice, all the ‘preferred’ subguns are just compacted and lightened versions of a MAC-10. But very few of them retain one of the best features of the CZ-26, the pull back to full auto trigger, instead of a selector switch.

      But the ‘state of the art’ of subguns has pretty much been reached. Best all around bargain these days for joe six shooter, is still a Mac. despite what any amateurs and movie misrepresentations claim. They’re rugged, reliable, cheap, can be custom tricked for your ‘needs’, and many parts available. You’d be surprised how many ‘operators’ still use these. In other words. ‘Best bang for the buck’

      So, until they come up with something that really works like on Star Wars, I’m not impressed with anything new too much anymore.

  • Bryan June 17, 2011, 12:43 am

    As a long time shooter and LEO, I can add a few things from experience, but as always, with a grain of salt, because I don’t have any scientists numbers backing up what I’m about to say.

    9mm is a fantastic round. Modern 9mm ammo hits hard, expands well, and let’s be honest, for most people, it is a largely more “shootable” gun than a 45.

    My wife an shoot my Glock 19 like it’s a Crossman pellet revolver. She shoots my Sig 220 well, but not NEARLY as well aa the 9mm.

    I will admit that even my own confidence on extensive follow up shots is more apt to land with the 9mm.

    However, there is one simple fact that I cannot deny.

    I’ve seen video, photos, and live action “own two eyes” experiences with both calibers in Law Enforcement settings.

    People GO DOWN when hit with 45. Not that they don’t with 9mm, Im sure German Police have taken out many a bad guy with 9mm. But 45 just seems to really lay people out in a HURRY.

    I can shoot 7 rounds from my 220 carry model into a regular plate at 5-10 yards nearly as fast as I can pull the trigger.

    I shoot the 9mm better by some order of magnitude, large or small. But I am convinced after my own personal experiences that if my life or the life of my family is at stake, the 230-240g 45 round has a pretty damn good chance of stopping a threat. A chance good enough to have been my go-to cartridge for 15 years.

    I will agree .223 is the flavor of the week,month,year,decade,century or what have you.

    That’s all fine and dandy. In the few times I’ve pulled a gun out in my career, I didn’t have the 15 seconds it would have taken me to get to my rifle.

  • Dorian Jones June 15, 2011, 8:27 pm

    Interesting firearm.

    I am a fan of the .45 ACP. My favorite gun being the para P-12 45, not currently in production. My partner and I are opening a new store, and we will be looking to stock survival type weapons. I am planning to carry the Mec-Tech conversion for the .45 ACP. The Mec Tech is less costly and does have a folding stock, which I feel is an important consideration for a pack in the bag survival weapon.

    Also, the Mec Tech will allow the use of different handguns (and their particular) magazines, which allows me to use a 1911 single or double stack gun as the base gun. Of course it also has a model that will allow for the Glock, albeit my particular preference.

    If we find that customers can afford such an item as the Kriss, we would stock it – if it allowed the use of a Para style magazine.

    We will not be carrying the Ruger Mini-14, as good as it, as it will not accept a STANAG mag.

    These may be seemingly silly restrictions, but in a survival situation, one wants what is most common and available, unless something in of itself is an entire system – such as the FN 5.7 round, excellent for close and medium range defense or small animal hunting. Here the longer barrel and other features translate into a very desirable survival weapon.

  • dthomas June 15, 2011, 6:38 pm

    I hope the government picks up on the KRISS – have you approached them yet with your weapon? It looks like the ticket for Iraq or Afghanistan…

  • Tugboat Bromberg June 15, 2011, 1:21 pm

    I have had a love affair with the .45 ACP and the 1911 Colt for quite a while. It has been and still is my “go to gun”
    I would take the Kriss in a heartbeat! Aside from the stopping power of a proven round, I just think it would be a fun gun to shoot!

  • Muhjesbud, Chicago, Il. June 15, 2011, 12:34 pm

    Being one of those who never fired a gun he didn’t like, except when it didn’t work, If I had the money, I’d probably add one to my collection. Mainly for engineering novelty, of course, or just because guns are better than gold for ‘all around’ investment purposes. But not for practical tactical application. This includes for all of the reasons you’ve already covered in your well written article, but mainly for this reason: Nothing beats the final evolution of the AR-15’s. Especially in the light combat/carbine versions in all but a few tactical applications. Period. It is such because of the natural evolution of form and function. Which is why it remains, until a real space gun evolves, as the number one all around combat platform today. Despite the ongoing efforts to replace it.

    If you must reduce your gunfight scenario effectiveness by using a sub caliber weapon in, as you said, the ‘mythical’ .45 round, (which is not a universal military round anymore for all of the reasons you mentioned plus the myth debunker that in the real world, despite folklore, there is nothing a .45ACP does better anymore, except weigh and bulk more, than other lighter and more compact rounds and even the improved 9mm can do.

    AND, there is nothing you can do with the Kriss platform, recoil or not, in .45 ACP, that I can’t equal or surpass with a silenced MAC-10. Period. And with my tweaked one, I’ll bet hundred dollar wrappers I can lay out more lead, (not because of faster cyclic, but because of faster mag switching). and be just as target aquisition friendly as your thrice as expensive Kriss.

    As far as police and Combat utility, Well, I’m no expert, even though people think i am from 40 years of all of the aformentioned, but in Nam when I tossed the 14 for the Thompson, which worked better in the mostly CQB, but was still too heavy, and we didn’t have drum mags, otherwise i would have overlooked the weight, but then took the grease gun from one of my Arvns and kinda liked that, except it was just a little too slow on cyclic. There was so much bolt open time an insect could jump in and jam it! But I then acquired a Swedish K in 9mm which I really took a liking to, and used it successfully until we got the Car-15’s, which really changed the ball game! Aside from these necessary ‘carry arms’, the preferred weapon of choice of ‘experienced’ practitioners in real combat always defaulted to the heavier the better belt fed machine gun you were closest to. Along with as much HE as humanly possible to detonate in the enemy’s direction.

    But I guess we ‘civilians’ just have to make do with what we can make do with.

    • Dave Orwell June 23, 2011, 12:38 pm

      @Muhjesboob: You are an idiot. For the love of God go visit your daughter in Madison and stay there. Thank you.

      • Navybat December 14, 2011, 1:34 pm

        I agree with Dave. You’re an idiot. And you need to learn to write. Half of this crap I can’t even understand–you’re rambling, old man.

  • tom klimaski June 15, 2011, 11:55 am

    I’ve owned a Marlin Camp gun in 45ACP for a bunch of years and although I don’t put 1000s of round through it regularly,it’s used often enough to maintain my proficiency. The weapon has performed more than adequately and has given me almost trouble free shooting. I have and can get enough ammo locally to supply my needs for a long time barring a full out conflict,and the caliber makes it a match for my regular carry gun,an EAA Witness full size.
    I will say however,tha when I cash in my lottery ticket,the firs weapon I go for will be the KRISS.

  • Joe June 15, 2011, 10:28 am

    Good article, and facinating design, but ultimately it is still just a tech demonstrator, in a caliber that no one has in inventory, let alone uses in bulk. As the article mentions, 5.56mm carbines are the standard, with 7.62×51 and 6.8SPC as alternative calibers for long guns. For sidearms, 9mm for military use, with 5.7mm making some headway in PDW use, and .40S&W for police in the US. Other than the SOCOM pistol trials, no one has mentioned the .45ACP for any modern role past the individual level. If I were to drop over a grand on a .45 SBR, I’d spend it on an aluminum recievered Auto Ord M1928, favoring nostalgia and a Cutts compensator over unique engineering that internally reduces muzzle rise in semi auto fire. I’m not an engineer, but I believe a heavy rifle caliber would garner more interest for this design. Take Kel Tec’s RFB and meld it with this operating system (and have a quick change barrel and caliber conversions), then make it streamlined so it doesn’t snag on everything (camo netting flashbacks) and you’ve got not only my attention, you’ve got my money. I wish the developers of this system well, but at this time, it’s still not for me.

    • Administrator June 15, 2011, 11:02 am

      Both Bass Pro and Wal-Mart have had plenty of .45ACP lately. Bass Pro had thousands of rounds of Hornady Steel Match last week, and Wal-Mart even had cheap Tula.

    • John June 15, 2011, 11:51 am

      Joe, .45ACP is available everywhere and frequently on sale in bulk. But at $.40/round, it is not your everyday plinker choice and, I agree, not the best choice for a carbine. I love this caliber for a home defense handgun and sometimes CCW, but would only consider it in a pistol. There may be some practical applications for the KRISS by professionals, but for the average civilian it is a mere novelty.

      KUDOS to the Swiss for an interesting and reliable design, quality craftsmanship, and voting down Entwaffnungs-Initiative.

    • Steven Cline June 29, 2011, 10:16 pm

      I’ve reloaded and fired over 10k of .45 for the last three years for a lot less than $0.40 per. This would be an awesome companion to my 1911, even better if I had a G21. Maybe I should get a G21.

  • David Letsch June 15, 2011, 8:09 am

    I like the review of the Kriss, and it is a new design. The Chiappa Rhino is not really new, being almost identical to the now-discontinued Mateba revolvers. The lower barrel design is identical, the weapons are very similar, and they were both designed by the same man.

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