I don’t like Sen. Dianne Feinstein. She’s a gun-control zealot. In fact, I’d argue that she gives former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg a run for his money as the number one gun-grabber in the country. That said, not everything she says I disagree with. Perhaps this is a case of the broken clock theory; you know, that it’s right two times a day? Point being, Feinstein is right about torture, especially in light of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA-enhanced interrogations during the peak years of the War on Terror.
Feinstein chairs the aforementioned Senate committee that compiled the report. In an article published in the Los Angeles Times, she spoke succinctly but effectively about the problems with torture.
“Torture goes against the very soul of our country,” said Feinstein. “We are a democracy, established on the rule of law.”
“We’re not perfect and there are some dark patches in our past, but what makes us special is that we recognize these evils, we come to grips with them and we fix them,” continued the California Democrat.
If you don’t like what Feinstein had to say because you don’t like her politics, her views on guns, or her party affiliation, then consider what John McCain had to say about the report. The Arizona Republican, who is no stranger to torture himself as a former POW during the Vietnam conflict, called the report, “a thorough and thoughtful study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose—to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies—but actually damaged our security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world.”
Below are some of the more gruesome, stomach-turning details of the report, transcribed by USA Today:
•Sleep deprivation: “According to CIA records, Abu Ja’far al-Iraqi was subjected to nudity, dietary manipulation, insult slaps, abdominal slaps … stress positions and water dousing with 44-degree Fahrenheit water for 18 minutes. He was shackled in the standing position for 54 hours as part of sleep deprivation and experienced swelling in his lower legs requiring blood thinner and spiral ace bandages. He was moved to a sitting position, and his sleep deprivation was extended to 78 hours. After the swelling subsided, he was provided with more blood thinner and was returned to the standing position.
“The sleep deprivation was extended to 102 hours. After four hours of sleep, Abu Ja’far al-Iraqi was subjected to an additional 52 hours of sleep deprivation, after which CIA headquarters informed interrogators that eight hours was the minimum rest period between sleep deprivation sessions exceeding 48 hours.”
•Transport by plane: “Detainees transported by the CIA by aircraft were typically hooded with their hands and feet shackled. The detainees wore large headsets to eliminate their ability to hear, and these headsets were typically affixed to a detainee’s head with duct tape that ran the circumference of the detainee’s head.
“CIA detainees were placed in diapers and not permitted to use the lavatory on the aircraft. Depending on the aircraft, detainees were either strapped into seats during the flights, or laid down and strapped to the floor of the plane horizontally like cargo.”
•Stress positions: “The Office of Inspector General later described additional allegations of unauthorized techniques used against (Abd al-Rahim) al-Nashiri by [CIA OFFICER 2] and other interrogators, including slapping al-Nashiri multiple times on the back of the head during interrogations; implying that his mother would be brought before him and sexually abused; blowing cigar smoke in al-Nashiri’s face; giving al-Nashiri a forced bath using a stiff brush; and using improvised stress positions that caused cuts and bruises resulting in the intervention of a medical officer, who was concerned that al-Nashiri’s shoulders would be dislocated using the stress positions.”
•Nudity: In November 2002, a CIA officer “ordered that Gul Rahman be shackled to the wall of his cell in a position that required the detainee to rest on the bare concrete floor. Rahman was wearing only a sweatshirt, as [CIA OFFICER 1] had ordered that Rahman’s clothing be removed when he had been judged to be uncooperative during an earlier interrogation.
“The next day, the guards found Gul Rahman’s dead body. An internal CIA review and autopsy assessed that Rahman likely died from hypothermia — in part from having been forced to sit on the bare concrete floor without pants.”
•Waterboarding: According to the report, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — often described as the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks — was waterboarded at least 183 times. This is a technique that simulates drowning, in which the detainee is strapped to a board while water is poured in his mouth and nose.
“During these sessions, KSM ingested a significant amount of water. CIA records state that KSM’s ‘abdomen was somewhat distended, and he expressed water when the abdomen was pressed.’ KSM’s gastric contents were so diluted by water that the medical officer present was ‘not concerned about regurgitated gastric acid damaging KSM’s esophagus.’ The officer was, however, concerned about water intoxication and dilution of electrolytes and requested that the interrogators use saline in future waterboarding sessions. The medical officer later wrote … that KSM was ‘ingesting and aspiration [sic] a LOT of water’ and that ‘[i]n the new technique we are basically doing a series of near drownings.’ “
•Rectal Feeding/hydration: Detainees who refused food or drink were forced to ingest food or water rectally. According to the report, a CIA officer “provided a description of the procedure, writing that ‘[r]egarding the rectal tube, if you place it and open up the IV tubing, the flow will self-regulate, sloshing up the large intestines.’
“Referencing the experience of the medical officer who subjected KSM to rectal rehydration, the officer wrote that, ‘[w]hat I infer is that you get a tube up as far as you can, then open the IV wide. No need to squeeze the bag — let gravity do the work.’ “
Another case describes forcing Ensure into a detainee rectally, and in a third instance, “Majid Khan’s ‘lunch tray,’ consisting of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed’ and rectally infused.”
Sure, it’s not like the U.S. government was going medieval on these folks, there was no rack, iron maiden, spanish tickler, breaking wheel, thumbscrew, knee splitter, pear of anguish, etc. (for details on what these devices are, click here), but the treatment of these captives was far from humane. Yes, they’re bad people. Arguably, the worst of the worst. Many probably deserve the death penalty — which I support so long as it is done in a quick, relatively painless fashion — but torture? No one deserves torture.
See, the moral dilemma with torture is that everyone suffers. Obviously, the one being tortured undergoes great psychological and physical suffering. But what about the torturer? The society that is complicit in the practice of torture? Don’t they ultimately suffer as well by losing sight of their humanity?
What differentiates us from animals is that we are sentient creatures — most of us are at least — equipped with a conscience. A moral compass. A capacity to empathize with others. We intuitively know right from wrong. And we have the free will, the agency to make the right decision. Yet, when we torture our fellow man, we are engaging in behavior that makes us less human. And the less human we become, the more barbaric we behave. Think of Hitler’s Germany, Mao’s China, or Stalin’s Russia — all societies that freely embraced torture. Do we want to regress to standards of human indecency set by despotic regimes? I don’t think so.
If you reject the moral argument, you have to consider the practical one, which is the problem with torture is that it begets more torture. If we torture our prisoners then those who have American POWs won’t think twice about torturing our troops (in fact, one can argue that it incentives the maltreatment of American POWs). It creates a vicious cycle that just leads to more unnecessary pain and suffering. Of course, studies also suggest that torture as a means to extract information is unreliable. Meaning, the perceived good torture does to get actionable intelligence from captives who are reluctant to share information is greatly exaggerated. As it turns out, torture doesn’t do us any good.
When you look inward and reflect, what do the better angels of your nature tell you about torture? Do you support it?
The incompetence by the “writers” on this site never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for an entertaining read on the john.
After 9/11 I have over 3000 reasons why I don’t give a Damn how Information is Extracted from ANY Terrorist.
War is war and it is very ugly !!! Any, ANY, method of interrogation that will save one U.S. life is justified If these Prisoners don’t want to subject themselves to this interrogation, they should have stayed home and not VOLUNTERED to kill U. S. troops !!!!!!!!.
i believe in torture 110% if it saves one life or a million!
but in the case of that fugly biotch feinstein i would torture her just for the fun of it!
and then when i was done i would do the humane thing and put a bullet up her ass.
How soon we forget. The people that commented on here saying that we shouldn’t torture should be forced to watch videos of the 9/11 attacks every day for the rest of their lives! Water boarding is NOT torture. Anyone that does what these muslims do to ours and others should be tortured again and again, and then executed in the most imaginative way possible!
The only difference that makes a difference is that they are monsters wearing people suits and we will need to be a people wearing monster suits if that is what it takes to put the fear me and mine in them so bad that they will shit them selves when ever they think about taking on the Great Satan again. They think we are, lets not prove them wrong. Monsters only understand that a bigger monster is something they don’t want to mess with because we will eat them and all their young. God gave us canines for a reason, it was to tear out the throats of our enemy if they do not believe in the way of peace. God had Arch Angles and they cast out the evil doers and created hell…. he showed us and them the way… live in peace or go to hell….. “some times it takes rough men to do unpleasant things”. Does it make us better than them…nope… so which way do you want it… they eat your children or we eat theirs…. only difference is those of us called upon to do it will feel bad about it after… they won’t they revel in it..
Yep! Do it. Then do it again. Then when they’re done, do it some more! Those people are nothing more than two legged animals, violence is the only thing they understand. What are we supposed to do, bring them donuts and just nicely ask “who’s getting blown away next”? Silly Liberals…..
Rinse & repeat
All spec op people WHO WERE on the field say YES, it works. If you squeee a terrorists balls har he will tell you all his life story. He will sign it if you ask. They said that liberal arm chair PhD now nothing about rel war. http://www.discoverTheNetworks.org
First I would like to say torture is needed, and the media should stay out of it. The media and “civis” have no Idea what is really at stake, and should have no bearings on what is going on with National Security and Defense of this Country. Let the professionals do their job as efficient, and proficient as necessary. We shouldn’t hear any complaints, that tells me their is too many people putting their nose where it does not belong…Bottom line is we would get nowhere without OUR tactics…Time is everything…
I could not care less how the muslim scumbags are tortured!
I believe you do what is necessary to protect this country. These are terrorists… animals who will kill your kids, your wife, your mother without mercy. I personally think that Pelosi publicized this report to create problems for the Republicans. She was aware of the techniques and never complained. Maybe we should waterboard her and find out if she knows anything about terrorism!!
One thing you can always count on, right wing fanatics know absolutely zero about history, even their own. In every case when a nation has used torture it was only a matter of time before it started to use it on their own people. History has proven it over, and over and over again. Look at what the U.S. is doing now. The U.S. has violated its own constitution by executing American Citizens without trial and bragged about it. Their excuse, well we know they are guilty and they are not living in the U.S. anymore and we would never kill an American without trial on American soil. Baloney, the German Nazi’s said the same thing when they started doing it and their promise about not killing or torturing their own people lasted about as long as a snow balls melting in Hell. Again history has proven that once you violate your own laws and constitution its just a matter of time before everyone in the country will be tortured or executed without trial. John McCain was dead on when he said ” Torture is a stain on our History” and I might add it goes against everything America has ever stood for. It was what set America apart from the blood thirsty Neanderthals of other sub-human governments, (notice I did not call their people sub-human), only the criminals who ran their countries. When a man like McCain who underwent torture says you do not get any useful information he knows what he is talking about because he has been through it.
Now for a history lesson: During WWII American and British prisoners of war were for the most part treated very well by the murderous Nazi’s. Why? Because the Germans knew we were treating their prisoners well. The Germans did not treat the Russian prisoners well because they new the Russians were starving German prisoners of war to death. So think about this if we ever get into a conventional war. All those thousands of U.S. prisoners that survived WWII would have been killed if we had been torturing and murdering German prisoners of war during WWII. Its history and its about time you studied it.
What country did you learn history in? Did you get an “F”
What a twisted bunch of bullshit you have concluded about Americans.
“Right wing fanatic” that’s an oxymoron
People on the right are thinkers and planners, and not fanatical about anything.
Seriously, where the hell are you from?
Tell petru sova like it is,Russ! If his family ever gets murdered by those muslime sob’s, he’ll change his tune! I’ll bet he voted for obummer!
Hitler’s henchmen didn’t mistreat the Russians bad because they were mistreating German prisoners. The nazi’s treated the Russians bad, because hitler and his henchmen, thought they were untermuchen(rats) and didn’t deserve to live on this earth. He thought the same about the Jews, Gypies, Poles, Slav’s, et al. Hitler wanted to treat American prisoners harshly, but his henchmen knew that if the Americans found out, they would kill or mistreat the German prisoners. When we entered into WWII, the Germans, with some common sense, knew it was the beginning of the end for them, so they were hedging their bets, by treating the our guys the way the Geneva Convention rules stated. Hitler wanted to create a world of slaves, with the Germans in charge, and rid the world of the eastern Europeans and other races of people. Kind of like the democrats want to do to our country!
AsnInhave said to many that think I’m a little strange but, nukke the basterds turn the sand to glass and build a retirement community for are elderly. I have not one bit of concern over it and you can’t do it call me I’ll throw the dam switch.
No dan, your not strange, I’m with you on that.
All the pussified socialist/hippy/communist/democrats have emboldened them.
These asshole religious murderers need to be scared, it’s all they understand.
You flip the switch, and I’ll market the glass for church windows.
Water boarding……You call that torture?
Stop making me laugh, you pussys crack me up.
Nobody is wounded or dies.
It’s like a carnival ride.
What would you call a 40ft hawaiian wave breaking in front of you over a coral reef?
That’s a surfer getting waterboarded, I call that exciting and fun.
I believe you should never be told what it takes for our intelegence agancies and armed forces to do their job corectly.
It’s their job, not yours!
Maybe they should oversee all the procedures of your work place?
Mind your own damb business and carry on with your protected lifestyle
You _ _ _ _ ing busy bodies.
I have only one comment and that is. I don’t give a hoot ( for a better word ) how or what it takes to keep our country and our citizens safe from the idiot Muslims or other terrorist, if it is called torture so be it.
I think what needs to be done here is outline exactly who is being tortured or undergoing extreme interrogation techniques and under what conditions that individual finds themselves in.
1. Any foreign fighter who wages war against America, Americans, and her interests abroad or domestically.
2. Any American Citizen who becomes treasonous and aids and abets the enemy and therefore forfeits their citizenship and given due process to revoke that citizenship is now subject to capture and interrogation.
3. Any individual, not an American Citizen, who may potentially hold information valuable to protecting America, Americans, or American interests.
Now, under those conditions, I’m not having an issue with the techniques used to draw information out. I wouldn’t even consider that torture. Torture in my mind is what it was under medieval to around the inquisition types of torture. Not things like sleep or food deprivation, long hours of standing, extreme temperature deviations, loud music, sensory deprivation. These are not torture. High discomfort, yes, torture no. If anyone believes that this is torture, then they really don’t know what torture truly is. I’ve undergone these types of techniques as part of my training and yeah, they are really uncomfortable and they were used to break me down over a long period of time and frankly, they got pretty close. The mind will do everything it can to stay away from discomfort or pain and move to something that delivers pleasure. It takes a tough mind to overlook the base desires to be repeled away from these kinds of techniques against you.
Now, waterboarding for me skirts to close to torture. I didn’t like it, but I also developed a technique to fight it, but that is me and I’m physically able to do it and I don’t know anyone else who can, but I also never told my handlers about it either. Kept it a secret to myself and I still have. If these techniques are used against the above stated points of criteria, then I really don’t have a problem with them being used on the enemy. This whole idea that we are better than them and therefore can’t use these techniques is a silly argument to make.
Outside of the Geneva conventions there is no criteria for really what to do with the enemy and the enemy in this case only knows two things, hostage demands and death. We are fighting an enemy that neither observes nor cares for the ‘rules of war’. We are already under ridiculous rules of engagement in theaters of operation now.
When those muslime pos hit those buildings on 9-11, and I saw them dancing in the streets in Gaza, I could care less what they did to those captive muslimes that we had locked up in this country. When the japs bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941 with their sneak attack, at least they tried to hit military targets. When they invaded the islands in the Pacific, we saw later what they did to innocent civilians. They were barbarians, and these muslimes are barbarians that are worse than the japs. The muslimes are still trying to hit us, and the so called “good muslimes” have yet to condemn what they are doing against innocent people. So, if you ask me if I condone torture, I’ll tell you, “you’re damn right I condone torture”! I don’t trust a muslime and will never trust those cold blooded pigs. If it were me and I could lawfully execute them and bury them beside a pig, I would. They don’t deserve the “milk of human kindness”, because they are lower than wild animals. At least, wild animals kill to eat! The muslimes murder innocent children, women, and men that don’t agree with their slimey religion. But, that’s just me!
If you can get up and walk away, when it’s all done and over with, it’s not torture.
Why would one torture another human being? I’m thinking of two possible reasons, 1) the torturer is a sadist or 2) the torturer is trying to elicit information. Both reasons could be true but in any case, the victim could not die under the torture, at least as long as the desired information was still needed.
Let’s ignore the sadist and concentrate on the torturer trying to get information. OK, scenario time:
Three Warriors of Allah were unfortunate enough to fall into the hands of the American authorities. However, they were able to complete their assignment, which was to secret a suitcase nuclear device in a skyscraper of a very large American city.
The three “warriors” are rather pleased with themselves because they know that each would be going to meet the 72 virgins when the nuclear device detonates. All three brag about their accomplishment and inform their captors that there is not enough time to evacuate the city or even enough time to search all of the skyscrapers in the city.
What to do, what to do. If I were in charge I would quickly place each terrorist in a separate room far enough away so that no sound could travel between the rooms. Each would immediately be force-fed pig products like ham and bacon. The terrorists would immediately understand that this would cause them to be “unclean” and therefore unworthy of going to paradise. Torture is all about two things, namely psychology and pain, of course.
Then each of them would then discover the wonders of the human nervous system. No human being can endure acute pain for very long and they would naturally start to tell stories to escape the unendurable agony, stories that rival in number Seharazad’s 1,000 stories. There are times in our lives when seconds seem like minutes and minutes seem like hours. The three terrorists would soon notice that the torturers would show no emotion and pay no attention to their related details while the wretches tried to distract, or at least slow the application of unpleasant sensations. Nothing would stop the various applications of ever-growing and unremitting traumatic pain.
It would be obvious that no one was being sent to investigate the clever stories of the terrorists, there would be no let up in the torture, not even momentarily. That’s when the torturers would inform each of the three terrorists that they would experience higher levels of pain from the application of white hot rods, electrocution, drilling of kneecaps, etc, etc until at least two of their stories matched in detail.
Let’s try to look at this from the terrorist’s viewpoint. Each of them knows that he will not be going to paradise because of the force-fed pig body parts. Each is rapidly approaching his pain tolerance and has lost all ability to control bodily functions as one electrode is moved from ears and tongue, while the other is alligator clipped to private parts or a metal probe.
Now what were some of the contributors saying about torture not being effective. I frankly believe that any person undergoing such horror, would trade his country, religion, wife, children and pet dog for one torture-free minute. And what would stay the tortures hand? Simple, that the stories of at least two of the terrorists match, however, the torture would continue after a few minutes when the torturers informed the terrorists that their story did not check out.
Actually, the torture would have to continue anyway until the terrorists realized that the torture would only stop when the nuclear device was found. The wretches could then only tell matching stories until the device was found. The interrogators would know that at least one eye, ear and hand would be spared to enable communication. I’m pretty sure that a red hot knitting needle against a ear drum would get the desired attention of any human being.
And the trade? (There is always a trade.) The trade would be 1,000,000 American lives for the cessation of swimming in a world of pain. Well actually, straining against the hold down straps while experiencing a world of pain. Remember, minutes seem like hours when your not having fun.
The alternative? Go to the window and wait for the flash. It might help such an righteous person to remember that he would not lower himself to “their” level when that flash burns his retinas out, but then he won’t need them anyway in a few more seconds. The last thing he will ever hear is the laughter of the Warriors of Allah, who are about to enter paradise.
Is this a trick question? Do I support torture? Do you support keeping this country and it’s way of living alive? News flash…..we’re fighting an enemy that has no uniform, no loyalty to any one country, and only will be satisfied when everyone believes as they do. They will kill you, your family, to include children, or anyone else the want in order to achieve their goal. Only a fool would try and hold the moral high ground…..like we use to when the enemy was far away, when the enemy is HERE. Let’s put a face on this. I suspect if anyone here, or a member of your family was being held and being prepared to be beheaded, you’d want someone to use whatever means necessary to get info to find you and save you. If you say no, you’re a damn liar. It’s always easy to play the liberal game when it don’t involve you or one of your loved ones. Folks, these are very different times and this notion of getting all wishy washy when it comes to preserving what I’d like to think is something you’d like to keep for yourself and your family needs to stop. Our enemy respects nothing except power and those that will use it. I’ve spent enough time in their part of the world to know this. They are here…..now…..and if you don’t grow a pair of balls to protect this nation and it’s heritage, well then….don’t bitch when one day YOUR country and YOUR way of life are gone….given away to terrorists because our men didn’t do whhat was necessary to protect her. In closing, can we keep this garbage off of a gun publication? I think most would prefer to read about guns and not some garbage like this that we get bombarded with daily.
Well. Sleep deprivation. Nudity. Transporting in a plane with a hood on. And OMG: waterboarding. Mighty nasty stuff, all right.
Contrast that with one simple tactic of the other side: cutting off heads with a rusty, dull knife. Those things suddenly don’t look so bad, do they?
Look, we are at war with 7th-century savages that see our so-called morals as a weapon to use against us. Our reluctance to do whatever is necessary to defeat them as a huge weakness, that we will never really do what it takes to win the fight.
If you haven’t realized by now that they aren’t interested in negotiating (unless it favors them – the fraudulent Iran nuke talks are a prime example), or Geneva Convention-type rules, or that they see those things as a weakness also, then we lose. Losing as in not just losing a battle, or a war, but losing our civilized way of life. Put simply: they want us to live like 7th-century savages, too.
So, with all due respect for the author and like-minded individuals, we have to get over this notion that our sense of moral superiority trumps doing what is actually necessary to meet and defeat this unprecedented threat to civilization. Don’t wait until the sharia “police” are at the door.
If it saves American lives, hell yes I support it. If it’s just for someone’s sadistic aggrandizement, then no. If we torture some low level dope who doesn’t have any useful information, then it’s counter-productive since the guy will say anything to make the pain stop. We have to make sure that the person being tortured has worthwhile information, otherwise, the whole operation is fruitless.
Torture is being on the 89th floor of the twin towers and having to choose between jumping to your death or being burned alive. Torture is being on a plane taken over by terrorists and knowing that you are being flown to your death. Torture is kneeling at the feet of your terrorist captor knowing that you are going to be decapitated when he finishes his tirade. I’m against torture, but fully support using enhanced interrogation techniques. Like the liberal progressive socialist say, “If it saves just one life.”
I love my brothers in arms, but I have to say our group is very unsophisticated re: politics,
there are two factions of organized crime (according to the intelligience officers at Veterans Today) that have infiltrated and control our government, our money-the Zionists and the Bush crime family,
9/11 was a false flag event created by these devils, in order to destroy our Constitution and gain absolute control over us,
destroy our rights and plunder us- torture and all the BS that goes along with this phony war on Terror was designed to accomplish their coup on the US and the world, Homeland security is in control of the Israelis, and police forces are being trained across the country by the Israelis, unless we meet this challenge; you all KNOW they will be coming for our guns via Homeland Security-you people who have been manipulated and played with things like this idea of torture will be experiencing torture when they arrest you and put you in FEMA camps-its coming, and you better get saavy to who the real enemy is, not some camel jockeys in the Middle East throwing bottle rockets,
the Republican Party (and the Democratic party) have been co-opted and are part of this organized crime, and while they are throwing you a bone with gun rights right now that will soon change
I guess the pure and holy Muslims aren’t torturing the people they slowly behead. Screw them. They are rabid animals, and deserve to be treated as such. Does our torturing terrorist cause them to torture our soldiers? The hell you say, they were torturing our soldiers before we ever tortured one of theirs.
This report is a political BS move by the Dems. It is incomplete, (no CIA interviews), and needed to be released before the Reps take control of both houses. That being said, I condemn the use of the harsher techniques.
Anyone who would give this power to the govt has their head up their butt.
Remember, these are the same people who say that if you buy ammo online, (or have a gun shipped to your FFL), have fuel, food & water stockpiled for emergencies, own more than X number of guns, etc., etc. are “domestic terrorists”. Terrorist is a label thrown around pretty generously these days.
There are a bunch of folks that say, “This stuff was done to me in training”. The difference is that you KNOW it’s training and if you wanted to you could have tapped out and applied for that forklift job in a warehouse. When people die from them, it’s a little more than “Enhanced Interrogation”. Then we come to those that say “Well what if one of your family…” Please. Stop letting these thoughts escape your brain. It’s damaging the atmosphere. Would you be OK with the local cop shop doing this on a suspected shoplifter? That’s where this heads once the OK is given – eventually human nature of those in power will use it for anything BUT “good”. Read your history people!! If your values are situational, then you have no values.
Well said. Allowing our government this type of power sets a terrible precedent. I’ve no interest in being waterboarded by XE employees in a FEMA camp trying to find out where the rest of my militia unit is or who they are.
And really, fellow Americans, the CIA is no friend to thee and me. From the Bay of Pigs to the Shah, to JFK, to the failure to share relevant info leading to 9/11, this department of the federal government has NEVER worked for the benefit of the American citizen, only for their own means and ends. Allow them the power to continue asking questions via “enhanced means” only leads to them getting the answers they need for their agenda, not the greater good.
And yes, fundamentalist Islam is at war with the rest of the world. They use things like beheading and torture because they are weak, and horror is a force multiplier. We are not weak. We kill our enemies, we kill their chain of command, we kill their support infrastructure. We don’t torture them, because they are beneath that much of our attention. Cruise missile, drone strike, well-placed .308 in the ocular cavity, then on to the next. What kind of soldier gets detailed to put a tube up another man’s rectum, anyway? And what kind of soldier will he be after 6 months of that?
I’m for whatever it takes, just like all the other Countries do to the USA. Anyone who is not has no balls.
Prior to using any of the “enhanced” interrogation techniques, I’m quite certain the CIA tried what many would view as “standard” methods. When those didn’t work, and I suspect only then, did they employ stronger methods. These people were/are terrorists. Most are still alive today with no permanent damage other than what their already twisted psyches have. They or their ilk are responsible for countless horrific acts of torture, maiming and death of innocents all over the world, including children. People who did nothing wrong other than perhaps being in the wrong place at the wrong time. We needed information. We needed to get Bin Laden. We needed to learn information about planned terroristic attacks against our citizens, our nation and our allies. These people have no allegiance to a nation. They serve only a radical, perverted ideology. They are terrorists. Consider the that this designation consists of the word Terror. That’s what they inflict on the world. To hell with them. If they don’t respond to “normal” interrogation techniques and we need information to protect our nation and its citizens, then we have a MORAL obligation to extract that information by any means necessary to protect innocent lives. I don’t like it but, as far as I’m concerned, they are the ones who put themselves in that position and they can choose to cooperate or not. So be it. I believe they should be given a chance first but, if they won’t cooperate with interrogators, then I give permission for our folks to do what they need to do.
Damn it we are in a war to win not be Mr nice guy. They chop off heads,kill wokids so what a little waterboarding is no where near there actions. We are turning into the land of pusses until they land here then if we are lucky we will wak up and kick ass anyway we can.
First, get our troops the hell out of the Middle East. Second, stop business with them, even if it means we have to resort to using trains and busses. Finally, if it will save the life of one US citizen, I heartily endorse any and all forms of effective torture. Any and all. Let them kill each other.
Listening to Feinstein and Pelosi is torture. Yes, I support reasonable tactics in extracting information from terrorist groups, especially muslims, because they have so little regard for human life outside of their twisted beliefs.
I guess what Sen. Dianne Feinstein describes as torture, is torture “only” after you describe these things as torture. Before they were described as torture, they were no more than being uncomfortable and just sucked! Today, we call them torture! I guess we’ll just ignore the “real” torture techniques as used long ago (and some recently) on some of our American brethren. It ALL really makes sense…..now that we are such a coddling society, our lives have become about “comfort”, i.e. air-conditioning, heating, cars, cell phones, computers (and shopping on computers) TV, DVD, remote controls for everything, fast food, etc. The whole world knows it but us! To stand too long, not sleep for days, get slapped and force fed when refused to eat and drink – ALL uncomfortable, not torture! And it’s being done to guys that cut peoples heads off and blow-up innocence! If you think that is torture, NEVER get capture by them, they will not be so kind! I served 30 years in the military so my views are skewed to the comfort freaks! I did 6 years in combat zones. I’ve seen what the enemy does to us! I’m sure Sen. Dianne Feinstein leads a comfortable life, so so to her, this is torture!
If the torture help save the lives of just one American then it was worth it.
It’s OK to fly planes into buildings, plant roadside bombs, behead victims on national TV but torture is not OK?????
I don’t care how many you have to water board, deprive of sleep, slap their little belly or anything else. If it saves one American life, do it!
First of all, the report is contrived and dishonest. It’s only purpose is to destroy our intelligence capability and bring down our nation. And second, I don’t considered these “interrogation methods” to be on the same level as old fashioned “medieval” style torture. And considering some of the horrible things they do to women and children, I do not consider these people anything, but pure evil. We should do whatever is necessary for the security and survival of our civilization, both here and abroad. These are our enemies. And they want only to enslave or murder us. We must protect our people, and especially the children.
First of all Martin B and anyone that subscribes to that line is stupid but typical of the socialist movement. Second all of you with your self-righteous opinions that torture is wrong would quickly change your minds if it was you or your family that could potentially be saved by torture. The real idiots here re those of you who are now saying “nope I’d let my kids be killed before I would torture anyone.”
There is torture, and then there is TORTURE. Terrorism is a world wide problem where there are no rules or limits. One cannot battle it, let alone win in a conventional manner as previous wars have been fought. Innocent people of all ages are being maimed and killed by these terrorists. IMO, once a terrorist is caught, any means of gaining information is permissible. The methods used by the US are mild in comparison to those used in other countries. You think other countries have lawyers, medical support, and other specialist standing by? Beheadings are ‘civilized’? Mutilation, abuse, rape of family members are OK? Better get your head out of the sand and realize the enemy has no rules, no boundaries, and will slit your throat, or that of your children given half a chance. So yes, I would “Jack Bauer” their ass in second to get information where terrorists are concerned.
No need to torture them; no need to take any prisoners. Just kill them and advance…
I agree. I would go further and make that entire area one solid sheet of glass
Are you for or against torture? Consider this scenario; your five year old daughter or granddaughter has been kidnaped by a serial rapist and killer. His M.O. is too rape them and then bury them alive in a large box so they will suffer for two or three days before they die a horrible suffocating death. He was captured once but escaped after raping and killing ten other children. Videos shows him kidnapping your loved one and fingerprints at the scene prove beyond a shadow of doubt he is the perpetrator. He is recaptured by the police and refuses to tell where he buried your loved one. She is buried alive and time is running out. She has probably less than two days to survive. Would you advocate torture or would you just let your loved one die a horrible death, and live the rest of your life thinking you could have saved her and maybe others buried with her? What do think Senator Feinstein would do if it were her granddaughter? What would the President do if it was one of his daughters?
Jim, I have used that scenario before also, its a good one, but there is always someone who will say that would never happen. We all know what would happen, torture, of course, but the public would never hear a word about it. We have to do what we have too do, if that includes torture, well, sheet happens.
The Muslims that we were attempting to retrieve information from are responsible for far worse than so called torture. These people have declared war on my country. Therefore be glad that I was not attempting to retrieve information. For those that desire to extend our laws to others are confused. These people are not Americans, therefore our laws do not extend to them in any form. Muslims will just behead you instead of torture. No we do not need to stoop to their level, but if you want to protect our way of life it is sometimes necessary to get there attention.
I don’t care if they buried them in pig poop up to their chins and lite their heads on fire. To win a war, first of all, take the ignorant politicians out of it. Their utopia bubble knows to little of harsh reality. Then do what you have to do and it’s going to be ugly, it’s not a movie.
The writer does not know what he is talking about. When my SERE training has water boarded me, sure, I knew I was not going to die, but it was very effective and I told them the truth eventually. Ve r y effective. Some of the other things the bogus report said did happen, but they should have interviewed the ‘other’ side of the story for a complete and credible report. As it stands she left the report open to all the criticism it now deserves.
The writer does not know what he is talking about. When my SERE training has water boarded me, sure, I knew I was not going to die, but it was very effective and I told them the truth eventually. Ve r y effective. Some of the other things the bogus report said did happen, but they should have interviewed the ‘other’ side of the story for a complete and credible report. As it stands she left the report open to all the criticism it now deserves.
Amen brother. BTDT. Told my wife that is part of SERE school training. Why? So we as soldiers know what to expect from our enemies if we are captured. Good the goose, good for the gander.
I notice that Congress has never published a report for how our captured men and, especially now women are treated.
Torture is a crime
If you allow your government to torture people they will torture their citizens as dissidents
This Congress should be impeached for these crimes
These Terrorists killed thousands of innocent Americans when destroying the World Trade Center, Suicide bombing bystanders at eatery’s, movie theaters and shopping malls. They have tortured and beheaded American prisoners! If they can do this to us why not do the same to them!!!!! “AN EYE FOR AN EYE” “TURN ABOUT IS FAIR PLAY”
First of all this report was total BS. Not one interview with the people responsible for the program was done by the Democrats. Second it was not released with the agreement of the Republican minority on the committee. Third it was constructed by the Democrat staff who started with a premise and then cherry picked lines from thousands of reports on the actual incidents to bolster their premise. Finally it was released in a fit of pique by a gun grabbing grand stander named Diane Feinstein. She was angry that the CIA had hacked the staff’s computers to determine what classified information they had stolen from the CIA to complete their “report”.
Now as to the actual issue. None of the methods utilized consisted of “torture”. I went through many similar incidents during officer training in the U.S. Army and never once considered it torture. I support totally doing whatever is necessary to protect this country from radicals of any stripe, especially the current crop of Islamists running rampant
throughout the world. These people are not nation state soldiers covered under the Geneva Accords they are illegal combatants entitled to no guarantees accorded to any POW.
The writer of this article started this from a decidedly bias point of view and then sought out supporting material to justify it, similar to the what the Democrats did on this committee. Hopefully it didn’t cost him 40 million dollars like the Senate Democrat report did.
A lot of the victims of 9/11 were trapped and had a choice of jumping to their death or being burned alive, if that is not torture than what is?
If was a choice between them or us than i choose us.After all the hype and seeing them behead folks from the USA then do what ever you must to them!I don’t care what you do to them.My son is a marine and if he was killed by them then i would buy a ticket and head over and kill as many as i could.I would not stop until i was killed.Here we take care of our own by any means we must. back here we have this thing called honor and it directs our very lives to do the right thing by our family’s that liberals just will never understand.
You made a good point. If your son was killed, you would understandably want to go over there and take revenge. But for some reason, so many people can’t comprehend that a lot of people over there hate the US for that same reason. Their son or wife gets killed in a drone attack or a firefight, and then we get all shocked and offended when they react just as we would in the same situation.
If some terrorist bastard had information which we could use to save American lives, I would scrub his skin off with a stiff, rusty wire brush and splash acid on him until he told us EVERYTHING.
Me too, LLeclair. I have no problem with any activity to make them talk and then when we have all we need from them, to execute them right there on the spot. The only way to handle terrorism and acts like these is to make every moment of their lives as miserable and terrifying as possible and anything less, IMHO, is a waste of time.
All day, for as long as it takes!
Phew, somebody is off their meds and a serious kool-aid drinker of the dems/progressives/commies. Truly, the prescription for the little red pills is a good thing for you.
Torture…oh hell yes…and then a bullet in the back of the head. Terrorists have no rights, at all. As soon as they take away someone elses rights, they have no rights of their own.
I believe the enemy’s treatment of our own people sets the bar for how we treat the prisoners we take. For example, the Muslim extremists behead our people, so we should behead their people, then piss down their necks and post it on the internet. Never forget that they burned our soldiers and dragged them through the streets before hanging them from a bridge. I can’t believe you cry babies are so upset over waterboarding in light of how these animals treat our people even to this day.
Yes, I support the techniques used. When lives are at stake, do what you must. I personally would use techniques much worse than these to get the information that I needed. The report is political BS, especially since the scumbag senators involved knew many years ago what was going on. They were briefed on the subject by those in charge of the techniques.
BS, smoke and mirrors, wag the dog; just like the Roman empire before it fell.
I agree with any measures taken to get information that will help protect the USA from those who would do us harm, especially the rabid muslims!
I do not agree with the terminology of the word torture. If YOU are threatening to kill me or my wife and children, then YOU are the cause of whatever action is required to protect family and country. So when there is a response to YOUR savagery I don’t see how you deserve any leniency or understanding or compassion on my part to respond to YOUR actions. People try to sanitize these problems and completely lose sight of who the aggressor is and whom the victims are. These are limp wrist-ed intellectuals who have never seen a loved one beheaded or crucified and I hope to God you never have the responsibility to respond to an imminent attack such as 911, because I can tell you that YOUR sensitivity issues will get a lot of innocent people, men, women, mothers and fathers killed. And then you can tell all the relatives of the dead victims how you followed the moral high ground and showed compassion and sensitivity.Then if YOU caused the death of one of my family members, you may get an up close and personal introduction to real torture. Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read a book entitled ” When Hell Was In Session” by Jeramiah Denton. Then you will know what torture is.
I believe that all the forms of torture I just read about are crude and inhuman they are unnecessary and do not accomplished anything I believe that anyone who perform such cruel act should be punished
Hey Benny, go away. I believe you do anything you have to do to protect the troops on the ground and the people in our country, and yes, that even means you Benny.
Where to start. In the first place just in case you have not heard this report is such B.S. they never interviewed any body from the CIA or other departments while this demo hacks were putting this lie together.
From the first war we have fought as a nation our troops officer or enlisted have been torture and killed in the hundreds and thousands, What do you call public beheadings?
Our own troops are water boarded during training. I know this for a fact because it was done to me twice.
These people for lack of batter term chop up old men, women and babies and that is just for starters. Wake up and get a clue to what is going on out in the real world. Martin B you are just a BH!
They didn’t hesitate to kill thousands of us on 9-11 and they wouldn’t hesitate to torture any of us to death. These were not innocent people that were just picked up off the street. We knew they were part of the attacks. What ever it takes when they killed innocent men women and children. They didn’t fly planes into a military base they flew them into buildings with innocent civilians in them.
When I heard talk of torture, I had the old school thought of torture:
(i.e. bamboo under the nails, battery acid & hot knives, battery & jumper cables, Russian roulette, discriminant execution).
But torture is torture, we’re supposed to be the good guys and not act like our enemies. No on torture.
I agree with torture for Dick Cheney and all the other zealots who authorised extreme measures when deciding to illegally invade Iraq and bomb half the Arab world. Give ’em a taste of their own medicine. See if they still want it after a few multi day sessions. The survivors should be disqualified from ever participating in politics again.
First get your facts straight. The Iraq invasion was approved by congress, both Democrats and Republicans including hypocrites who now decry it like Hillary Clinton, John “I served in Vietnam” Kerry and others. So calling it “illegal” negates anything you have to say after that.
First, get your facts straight; Bush lied about the Iraq connection to 9/11. End of story.
Don’t remember Bush saying Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. How about showing me and others this lie that Bush made. He did however connect Iraq with supporting terrorism. Ever hear of Abu Nidal. He was living in Bagdad when the invasion began. As a member of Naval Intelligence during the 80s I know for fact the Iraq was a major supporter of terrorist groups that targeted American and American interest. Now I am not say that you are one of the Larry but there are some really stupid people that think the only terrorist group in the world at that was Al-Qaeda so when Bush said that Iraq was a supporter of terrorism he had to be talking about 9/11 and not the other over 1,000 Americans that had been killed by Islamic terrorist since 1968. All of those groups that were involved in murdering Americans and attacking American interested were supported by Iraq, Syria and Iran. But I am sure that you are not one of those people, that you are going to produce something that will show us where Bush actually said that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks even though he did say in at least three speeches that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. They always could have been that 4th speech. I sure you will come up with it
Bush’s lie was that Iraq was making weapons of mass destruction. He knew it wasn’t true but used it anyway to justify invading the country.
Do I agree with it? Not Yes, But HELL YES. Before my first tour to Vietnam I went through a jungle warfare training and was Water Boarded. Unpleasant? Yes, Did I like it? No. Was it Torture? No. What John McCain and others went through at the hands of the NVA was torture.They were beaten and abused for no reason, not for information. They had already signed statements and were continued to be abused. America is not perfect and we are not always right, but raise your hand and volunteer to live in Afghanistan with your wife and children. That’s what I thought…..
So….in your view it is just fine for rag-heads to use airplanes, full of innocent American citizens, as guided missiles to fly them into buildings full of other innocent Americans, and to kill thousands of people. SHAMEFUL!! It is people like you and those of your ilk who should suffer retribution for advocating such chicanery. You should be ashamed of yourself!
I don’t know of any detainee that was beheaded and videoed for their families and the world to see. Our muslim raised
President says that we are not at war with Islam. Get your head out of the sand Mr. President, because Islam is at WAR
with us and anyone that is not of the Islamic faith. Until the US gets a belly full of these people, more innocent life will
be taken. Even the muslims who are not violent, do not speak out against the crazies and harbor and support them. The only
to combat these people is to exterminate them . Nuff said.
Are you SERIOUS? Your rant is a little hard to understand.