Rapid Fire from the Tac-Con Trigger Group—Media Day at the Range—SHOT Show 2014

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SHOT 1

Tactical Fire Control, Inc.

http://tacfirecon.com/

One of the biggest hits of the show so far has been the Tac-Con trigger group from Tactical Fire Control. With all of the media and industry insiders blowing through ammo as fast as magazines can be loaded, the range can get a bit loud. Yet above that constant pop-pop-pop would come that signature braaaap of a rifle firing very fast. And it didn’t take long to find it. The booth was full of people trying to get a look at something they couldn’t even see.

On the outside, the guns looked like any typical AR-15s. But inside, the trigger groups had been replaced with sophisticated pieces of engineering that had a very simple purpose. Pull the trigger with the right amount of pressure and hold on tight. Don’t be fooled. It isn’t full auto, and it takes some shooters a few magazines to get the hang of it, but it is fun.

How does it work? When the rifle fires, energy from the bolt carrier transfers through the trigger assembly, which resets the trigger back onto the front sear. The result is a trigger that is ready to rock out incredibly fast split times. Or, if you prefer, a continuous string of very fast split times. And it doesn’t require much modification to the gun to get it working. Simply swap out the trigger and its ready. MSRP on the Tac-Con is $495.

{ 78 comments }

{ 77 comments… add one }

  • Marc Jones January 14, 2014, 12:12 pm

    will it work with a PL r16

    • mikeyb January 14, 2014, 9:18 pm

      Seriously?

    • mikeyb January 14, 2014, 9:20 pm

      Seriously?
      … and no.

    • boone1 January 14, 2014, 9:40 pm

      I wonder if you can get this to work on an AK47.SURE would be nice if it did I would buy four for my friend.

      • Captain Bob January 15, 2014, 4:27 pm

        ….must be a REALLY good friend for you to spend 2 thousand bucks on triggers for him (or her).

  • Marty Ewer January 14, 2014, 12:42 pm

    I’m glad Tactical Fire Control was able to get this through BATFE’s Tech Branch. I came up with this same idea in 2003 and sent prototypes in for evaluation. Tech Branch–at that time–wasn’t approving any internal modifications to AR-15s to get them to fire faster–even if it was just adding in some good ol’ fashion trigger slap. Today’s Tech Branch is a very different Tech Branch. Good for Tactical Fire Control.

  • Jay Warren Clark January 14, 2014, 1:56 pm

    Bad demo. They were having fun but now instruction whatsoever. Sometimes I think they forget what they are doing, only in this case all they showed was that they could not figure out what was so great about this trigger group. Is it 3 settings, one for single shot, one for fast fire, which was not demonstrated as different from a regular semi auto, and one for very fast fire, or what? As a teacher this sort of thing is very frustrating for me. It would be so easy to do it by the numbers–nor is this going to help sell any triggers. JWC

    • Leonard January 15, 2014, 8:55 am

      It’ll help to sell a lot of ammo…

  • Ronhart January 14, 2014, 1:58 pm

    This is the kind of UNNECESSARY crap that Bloomberg, Feinstein and other anti-gunners will jump on to further their “ban guns” campaign. I collect, shoot and reload for single shot and bolt action rifles, but in Colorado I now have to pay a $40.00 transfer fee just to buy or borrow a rifle from a relative or other senior citizen NRA member.

    • Bisley January 14, 2014, 3:59 pm

      Schumer, Fineswine and the rest don’t know, or care. They would have already confiscated your single-shot, if they could. We need to defeat and destroy these people, not kiss their asses, or try to change their minds. Repeal the NFA and there won’t be a need for gadgets to skirt the edges of bad law.

    • Mikemoran January 14, 2014, 4:11 pm

      Funny Ron, how your IRE is directed at the Makers and Users of this item RATHER than at the ANTI-American SCUM BAG, CRIMINAL, GANGSTERS you name AND their Cohorts, who have saddled you with said FEE and HOLD YOU UP AT GUNPOINT for it. I can see they’ve BRAINWASHED you WELL by the way you, like a little “junior” one of THEM, dutifully decide what’s “NECESSARY” or NOT for others. People like YOU are the reason “Creatures” like THEM exist. And I don’t CARE if you ARE a Vet or Retired Law Enforcement, (which I am), or WHATEVER Laurels you’re gonna try to fall back on for an excuse. Fact IS you’re IGNORANT! You and THAT attitude are JUST as RESPONSIBLE for the current state of affairs in this country as THEM. Difference ‘tween me and you is I’LL defend to the DEATH YOUR RIGHT to play with your stupid, waste of time single shots and bolt actions. Whereas you my fellow AMERICAN, can’t even keep THEIR argument from coming out of YOUR MOUTH. Go figure.

    • Muhjesbude January 14, 2014, 5:10 pm

      Well, I think that all you single shot and bolt action rifle collectors are the sort of unnecessary crap that anti-gunners take advantage of because you tend to have TOO many guns, You can justify one got even when arguing the mechanics, but not an entire ‘collection’, when one good AR-15 could do the job of your entire bloated arsenal. But it should still be your right to have what you want and i’ll defend your right with my choice of equipment, which you’ll bet your entire collection will be better than you’ll be able to do.

      By the way, I thought Colorado just recalled anti-gun representatives???

      Is this $40. transfer something new like Illinois is trying? Or is it an old law about to go the way of these state reps?

      Did you do your part in that? Otherwise don’t complain about violations of your Constitutional rights if you are not pro-active in defending your rights.

      • Rockyvnvmc January 15, 2014, 3:27 pm

        I have to beg to disagree with you concerning your statement that a single AR15 is one rifle for all uses. Replacing an entire collection of a wide variety of firearms.

        The 5.56mm, or .233 caliber round is, basically, a higher powered .22 caliber round. While it may be good enough for varmint hunting, it is too powerful for squirrel hunting and is inadequate for hunting larger game, such as deer, hogs, bear, etc. Even though some folks would use it for those purposes.

        The 5.56mm NATO round was adopted as a means of Wounding the Enemy, instead of Killing him, as it takes an additional two soldiers off of the battle field, to care for a wounded comrade, as opposed to a dead one. The rounds are also lighter and thus our soldiers can carry more of them. A third criteria that it met, was the ability to pass through more enemy soldiers, than the previous .30 caliber rounds would, back when we were contemplating future wars of the sort that we fought in Korea, against the Communist Chinese, who fought in human waves.

        For those who love or prefer the AR style of weapons, might I suggest also having an AR10, in 7.62x51mm, for those larger prey or circumstances, wherein a little 5.56mm isn’t enough. As well as at least one 12 gauge shotgun, for the things that you can’t use a rifle for. You can also get an AR style rifle in .22 rimfire, for plinking and squirrel hunting ;~)

        Not to mention a variety of pistols, for self defense…

        • Army127 January 17, 2014, 12:30 am

          The AR has the easy ability to change barrel and bolt groups to a large number of different calibers so yes one AR could replace many bolt action rifles. You could also buy separate complete uppers in different calibers to change out on your lower. Uppers, or barrel and bolt groups are made in: .204, .223/5.56, .243, .260, 6.8 SPC, .300BLK, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308, .338 Federal, .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, and I am sure I missed some others as well. So yes this weapons system can replace a whole safe full of bolt guns with just 2 lowers and some different mags and uppers you have your entire collection. Not that I don’t like bolt guns but I just wanted to show that it can be done.

      • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 5:42 pm

        The $40 fee he is referring to is for the background check involved in transferring a firearm from one owner to another. The Marxist swine here have instituted that rule so that even if you just want to look at the gun in your friends basement you must first do the background check. If your friend has two guns you want to look at you must do two checks for $80.00 before your fingers touch it. The same also applies to magazines of greater than 15 rounds capacity so if you are a range safety officer trying to help a new shooter, you cannot even touch the weapon or the magazines without first doing the bk check and fee. If I were to die in a car wreck this afternoon, my wife would have to turn my guns and magazines over to the sheriff until such time as the government approves the ownership transfer to her. Then she would have to undergo a background check and pay the fees before she could get them back, same with my son. Ridiculous enough for you?

        These laws are not being enforced by the majority of Colorado LEO except for the political appointees in Denver and Gov. Lickenpooper’s Geheime Staatspolizei.

        You are correct that 3 of the Demo-nazi il-legislators have been deposed from our state legislature but the libtards remain in control. In Colorado, you can buy marijuana in dozens of stores and smoke it openly but cannot take your grandson to the range so he can learn to shoot a .22. Liberalism on parade.

      • Greg January 21, 2014, 6:14 pm

        We DID recall 3 legislators, but it was after the fact and after the governor signed the law. The Legislators were told to ignore the people (admitted on national TV by the Senate leader who was then ousted) and push the laws through and Bloomberg would protect them. The people spent 1/10th the money Bloomberg did on the recall and still won.
        There are so many issues with the stupid laws, I don’t know where to start. We can lend or transfer a gun to an immediate family member, but not to a life long friend. We can keep the mags we own over 15 rounds, and you can even move to Colorado with your 15+ round mags, so long as you had them before July1, 2013. You CANNOT ever sell them, even out of state, or even to an FFL, or even transfer them to the Police, they are yours forever, unless you move out of state and take them with you. They made person to person transfers effectively illegal because of the TWO different $10 provisions most people missed in the laws. The first forces the gun buyer to pay for a background check, when in fact the gun owner is not the beneficiary of the service, it’s the people of the State. I get ZERO value by having my background check run yet I have to pay for it. The second $10 was much lesser known. The state law allows for a MAXIMUM of a $10 fee for a complete firearm transfer from person to person, including the state $10 fee. So an FFL would have to pay the state $10, and charge the customer $10 total to perform a transfer. I have not found a local dealer willing to work for free and take on liability for free, so person to person transfers are fictional unless you know your dealer well and he will choose to do it for free, or perhaps a “tip”, but they can’t “charge” more than $10. If his dealer is charging $40 for a person to person transfer, it’s illegal under HB-1229.

    • Dan January 14, 2014, 7:16 pm

      I hate to break it to you, to they want your guns too even if we appease them by not wanting semi autos or other “scary” guns. They go for the low hanging fruit first and eventually they’ll come for your single shot rifle as well.

    • MrNico January 16, 2014, 5:21 pm

      Ron, you don’t HAVE to, and you shouldn’t. Screw the commie bastards and refuse.

    • Smitty January 18, 2014, 10:03 pm

      I would think it is time to move to a gun friendly state. we in Utah would welcome you.

  • Chuck Matson January 14, 2014, 2:13 pm

    This looks like something I must own!

  • Rick January 14, 2014, 2:37 pm

    awesome!! Can’t wait for the price to come down for us common folk! :o)

  • PaulG. January 14, 2014, 2:42 pm

    Only $495? I’ll take a dozen LMAO. What could possibly cause 10 little pieces of metal, some pins & a spring to be worth $495? Must be a lot of crack or meth where these guts come from.

    • Gun-toting Liberal January 15, 2014, 1:58 am

      PaulG: Hell, that can be said about most anything gun related. This is Capitalism in action; charge all the traffic will bear, bedamned about f-ing over your fellow enthusiasts. I find it very strange behavior for a group of people who feel so persecuted and put upon to to have such a high percentage of its population be so willing to screw each other so badly, instead of banding together and refusing to take advantage of every little excuse to jack prices up even more. It disgusts me. I honestly can’t think of any other market segment that is so profoundly morally corrupt.

      • backwoodsboy January 15, 2014, 11:31 am

        Gun-toting Liberal: You certainly don’t have to succumb to Capitalism and buy the gadget, but I’ll bet my gun collection that without Capitalism, we’re going to see the end gadgets and of innovation itself. Innovation certainly doesn’t come from socialism or from other government-centric schemes, that is unless it’s a new and novel ways to take from us ordinary citizens and give to the “poor” (after first taking out their administrative cut and payoffs).

  • Mike B in Phoenix January 14, 2014, 3:10 pm

    This looks so freaking awesome- a real bit heavy on the price- but I said why not and threw down on it anyway. I have an LWRCI M6 pistol that this will complement it fully. What a great product to have at the Shot Show… PS to all those folks that live in AZ- ordering from the site you will get free shipping but hit with the sales tax :-( … Bang on my friends!

    I will do my own review of this so check my tube site when you can.

  • Dennis B January 14, 2014, 3:38 pm

    Sounds like a lot of money for a bad idea.

  • Chris January 14, 2014, 3:41 pm

    Junk.

  • Gray January 14, 2014, 3:52 pm

    A $500 Hell Fire?? Give me a break. The Hell Fire had a learning curve too, but it was only 60 bucks. If this is a good idea, the Hell Fire would still be around.

    • edodaniel January 14, 2014, 10:56 pm

      The Hell-Rire Trigger System is still around and is still fun to use although with the increased cost and availability of ammunition it is expensive fun. http://www.rapidfiretriggers.com/

      The Tac-Con trigger group looks to be more reliable but not worth the money unless it is something you really want.

  • Wayne January 14, 2014, 4:27 pm

    Such a fun hobby is turning into the rich man only hobby. Too bad everything about it is outrageously expensive. You would think the armories and companies that cater to the hobby might give us a little bit of a break once in a while. Greed rules all and all the prices reflect that. Would serve them right if they priced themselves out of business.

    • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 6:29 pm

      It always has been expensive Wayne. 100 years ago you could buy British Drillings, double barreled rifles, in African calibers like .600 Nitro Express, for huge sums of money. The H&H line was extremely expensive in the early 20th century as it is today. I shoot trap with guys who use $10,000 Perazzi shotguns, I don’t have one but they do, so what?

      You can buy a AR-15 for $700.00 or $3,000.00 depending the make, model and configuration and then put $4,500.00 worth of glass on it if you can afford it. Someone is going to be the guy at the gun fight with the cheapest gun, I don’t want to be that guy.

  • Wowzers January 14, 2014, 4:29 pm

    That looks like a really fun toy that will be banned almost as quickly as it becomes available to ordinary consumers.

  • Jerry B January 14, 2014, 4:32 pm

    This is just the toy for the guys that want to own C4 or other dangerous stuff, just because they can—Totally useless for home protection and just the thing to get the gun haters all in a twitter wetting their pants. Go to a gun park that allows you to fire full auto and get it out of your system one time and then learn the art of accurate shooting, one shot at a time, not ammo spraying!

  • El Mac January 14, 2014, 4:42 pm

    Pure bullshit. Nothing a high end trigger like a Geissele couldn’t do. Really? 5 bills????? No thanks.

    • Jay in High Springs, FL January 15, 2014, 12:43 am

      El Mac,

      I couldn’t agree more!! I’ve got several Geissele Triggers that are much, much better and a lot cheaper, albeit not cheap. I wouldn’t waste my money on the Tac-Con Trigger Group if it was 50 bucks! A Geissele SD3G will easily out shoot that trigger hands down and is half the price!!! Five Bills? Is this a JOKE???

      • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 6:21 pm

        I have several weapons that use Geissele triggers and I like them a lot. That said, the Tac-Con trigger is intended for an entirely different mission. My Geissele triggers are in my precision rifles and perform very well in that role. I can always tell when the trigger is about to break. This trigger is not intended to address trigger pull but rather to reduce split times, thereby making it faster. Single piece, drop in fire control groups such as AR Gold, McCormick, Wilson Combat, etc., routinely cost between $250 and $300. This unit includes a proprietary selector switch which adds to the cost. People claiming that they can do the same thing for $50.00 should put their money where their mouth is and try competing with this product on the open market. Good luck.

        I intend to give it a try in my next build.

        • Jay in High Springs, FL January 16, 2014, 1:46 am

          Try the Geissele Super Dynamic 3 Gun Trigger with the lighter first stage trigger spring (trigger also has a flat, 1911 style trigger bow, which makes perceived trigger weight even less). Second stage break and reset is extremely short and fast (1LB or less I think, and has a very crisp glass-like break. Reset is 2mm or less). I use Geissele Triggers in all my Armalite AR-10’s and in all my AR-15’s. (High Speed Match Trigger, SD-C, SD-E, and the SD3G. I am also not a big fan of single stage triggers in my AR’s.

          I get the point/concept of what Tac-Con Trigger Group is trying to do, it’s just not nearly as fast as some Geissele Triggers from the videos I’ve seen so far. Show me a video where someone using the Tac-Con Trigger Group can get 20 to 30 5.56 rounds down range accurately in 10 seconds and I’ll look at it a little more closely. Happy Shootin’!

  • Patrick January 14, 2014, 4:48 pm

    I bought something like this back in the 80s called a hell fire. It was mounted outside of the gun and pushed the trigger back kind of like this. I think I paid like 40 bucks for it. I tried it on a friends mac, I never install it on anything it’s still sitting in my gun cabnet drawer.

  • duhh January 14, 2014, 4:50 pm

    So the idea is a slide fire like result but neither of them could actually make it work and it still seems like a great product? I know I’d really like to spend 500 on a trigger that I can’t make function correctly.

  • Ron January 14, 2014, 5:57 pm

    I just ordered one and if it works as described I will order many more. This product should make the slide fire product obsolete.

  • Brian M January 14, 2014, 6:11 pm

    By the demo it looks like slower shooting than i am able to do with a 170.00 drop in?? Unless that thing replicates near full auto fire which is far from what is shown that i would say its a total waste of money.

  • Nick Giotta January 14, 2014, 6:25 pm

    I pre purchased this trigger on 12/01/2013 with stated start shipping date of the last week of December 2013 or the first part of January. I have not received my trigger yet. I believe that the building and shipping of triggers is going slow due to this being a startup company. According to the company they say that my order will be shipped in February sometime.
    So expect delays on receiving this new trigger.
    I think this is a great idea for upgrading the AR platform.

    PS. MAY 16, 2013 March on Washing DC to force out the socialist in political power from the White House on down. Expect 5 to 10 million American citizen patriots with over 1 million patriots to stay long term to stabilize our government.
    BE THERE
    SAVE OUR COUNTRY FROM BEING TURNED INTO A SOCIAILIST STATE.

  • David schwartz January 14, 2014, 7:07 pm

    I must agree with Ronhart above, bad idea that’s not necessary and will only provide the anti gunners more ammo to use against semi auto weapons.

    • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 6:09 pm

      Ronhart is an idiot and so are you if you think that you can make nice with the anti-gun libtards. They would ban BB guns if they could so get over thinking you can bargain with them, they are evil people with a mental disorder.

      The NFA 1934 was enacted in response to mob use of Thompson SMG, BAR, etc. culminating in the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre. So for the last 80 years, millions of law abiding gun owners have been punished because of the actions of career criminals. The NFA was unconstitutional then and now and should be repealed or struck down by the courts. Murder was illegal before, during and would remain so after ditching the NFA, that hasn’t stopped it from happening. The NFA, like all gun control laws, only punishes law abiding citizens, criminals don’t care.

      • Jay in High Springs, FL January 16, 2014, 2:45 am

        Completely agree! And with all the liberal “fluffy bunny” rainbow news networks, inept news reporters, Michael Bloomberg’s, Nancy Pelosi’s, etc…, the US will be looking like the UK and the Aussies gun control model very soon.

  • McDevitt Thomas January 14, 2014, 7:13 pm

    Awesome: If the BATF doesn’t ban it, I’ll wait for first price drop..

  • Dick D. January 14, 2014, 7:35 pm

    News flash, if the price is too steep for you, you couldn’t afford the ammo to burn anyway, move along, nothing to see here.

  • Keith L January 14, 2014, 7:56 pm

    Greed, it’s the ‘flavor of the decade’. No way in h…e…double L is that piece of garbage worth that amount of money. I geuss everyone making an accessory for the AR family thinks they should be an instant millionaire. Arogance and greed are what is ruinng this country.
    Anyone out there remember the “TAC Trigger” that was sold by the hundreds, if not thousands? It was probably closer to 50 bucks and ‘suposedly’ worked great, if you could ever get the exact trigger pressure applied to allow it, it would make your semi-auto fire ‘600-700 rounds per minute.
    Save your money and learn how to hit your target.

  • Dave B January 14, 2014, 8:22 pm

    I learned many years ago, when I was still far too young to be going to ranges on my own, and did all my shooting in the woods behind my house, that if you hit what want to with the first round, and you’ve chosen the right kind of weapon/round for your target you don’t need 15 or 30 more. (I did need two .32 acp rounds for a rabbit once, but he was running, and at about 40 yards, it was really too long a shot.)

    • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 6:38 pm

      Just because you do not understand the tactical use of high volume rates of fire doesn’t mean there is none.

      We ain’t talking about rabbit huntin’ here sonny.

  • mikeyb January 14, 2014, 9:31 pm

    Needless items like this. and the Slide Fire, along with the rantings such as displayed in an earlier post by ‘MikeMoron’ above are the fodder the anti-gun crowd feeds off. Accessories like this and the blowhard spewing of the ‘MikeMoron’s’ of the world will ring the death bell for the 2nd Amendment. Idiot.

    • Mikemoran January 15, 2014, 1:31 am

      ANOTHER SELLOUT “JACKASS” that knows NOTHING about what the words “FREE AMERICAN” mean heard from! USELESS DEAD WEIGHT. FEMAs’ got a “Cubby” with YOUR name on it for sure soon as THEY decide YOU are “NEEDLESS”. Quick lesson for ya there mikey, these are quotes you put in front of a word and in back of a word for emphasis, ” “. To show possessiveness you actually connect the s to the word then add that little mark like this, mikeys’ bicycle. And this is a “Capital” letter you put at the beginning of your attempt at making a sentence, A. And the phrase you read in one of your favorite comic books one time was “sound the death Nell”, with an N, not Ring the death Bell with a B. Freakin’ “ILLITERATE”.

      • 762x51 January 16, 2014, 2:59 pm

        Mike – Don’t sweat little mikeyb. He is one of the delusional jackholes that believes that they can make nice with the cultural Marxists currently running the country, you know, like John McCain.

        They lack the intelligence to understand that giving up just a little bit of a RIGHT will lead to total loss of that right. They think that if they just placate the progressive scum a little bit they will go away and leave us alone. Talk about stupidity. The progressives will NEVER stop, they will NEVER give up until all rights are assigned by the government to the victim groups that support them, as opposed to God given to all.

        People like him think you can compromise and negotiate with evil and win. Historically, evil can only be defeated by force of arms which is why the servants of evil among us want to confiscate them. By playing into their game, he becomes a servant of that evil. Pathetic isn’t it?

  • Doc Peay January 14, 2014, 9:34 pm

    This showed me nothing about the trigger group. Heck, no one even showed the rate of fire when shot by someone “who could figure it out.” Nice tone and atmosphere, but no info on the trigger at all.

  • FredlyFX January 14, 2014, 10:31 pm

    If you go to their web site they have a pdf scan of a letter from ATF who tested the trigger and says it, “is not a part or combination of parts the will convert a semiautomatic firearm into a machine gun” They have already ruled on it, and it would probably take legislation to change that.

    The demo was done very poorly. The company should have had their own top notch 3-gun shooter on hand to properly demo how fast it can work. As for the cost, all new products come out at higher prices to allow the early adopters to help finance the R&D and set up costs. 3-gun shooters who are sponsored will be their first clients as well as those who have lots of disposable income and want the latest gadget. Over time the price will fall as demand falls, the same as with new electronics etc.

    • 762x51 January 16, 2014, 6:21 pm

      Fred – At last, someone who actually read the AFT letter. If people would just read that it describes what this thing does. It has the standard safe and semi auto modes like any other trigger group on a stock AR-15. All the third mode does is positively RESET the trigger which is important for rapid fire. It still fires semi auto or the ATF would not have approved it. You still have to pull the freakin trigger for each shot!

      I agree the demo is very poor and the article is misleading in that it has allowed people to think that this is some kind of full auto replacement trigger. Again, there is one safe and two semi auto positions on the fire control. The third mode just allows you to fire very fast with out a trigger reset failure. If you have ever tried very rapid fire from an AR-15 you have probably experienced a situation where you either tried to shoot again too quickly, before the trigger reset or didn’t let off of the trigger enough for it to properly reset for the follow up shot, think hammer drills here. If you don’t know what hammer drills are then don’t buy this device. This is a run and gun advantage gadget that most people will not understand, much less need.

      I doubt that this company is big enough to sponsor a 3-gun competitor yet, this is their only product, but you are correct that the 3-gun competitors will be the early adopters of this device. I also agree that the price will drop over time.

  • jSm January 15, 2014, 1:13 am

    sounds like a slap system to me..too dear for now…should be around 150$$ for a stamped /drop in unit..prob make 40 of em in 15 minuts..not more than 10$ worth of material in them..r&d prob 2 or 3 months…everybody wants to get rich..kwik….greed..sucks!!

  • Jeff January 15, 2014, 5:24 am

    I think you single shot guys better pull your heads out of your asses if you think products like this are the problem
    WTF ????
    As far as this product goes @ $500 I’m with the crowd that’s going to wait
    And I can afford all the ammo I want.

  • Joe Dahl January 15, 2014, 4:40 pm

    Stoopid product,
    Why would I want this? If ya gonna rocknroll then
    Build a m16 lower. Less upfront costs. Possible on extraneous cost of building the m16 is legal costs if caught shooting it. But I seldom have heard of anyone busted for owning the full combination of selective fire components and being prosecuted for owning a machine gun. Come on now… how many thousands of triggers disconnectors hammers selector switches are out there in the public domain? Wasnt too long ago ar15s were sold with some of the m16 surplus parts already inside. I remember when the drop in auto sears were all the rage . Didnt need to drill and pin your lower and keep your ar legal. When the heat came down on the DI AS the psst ….. shhh….. hey ya wannbuy a D.I. under the table deals going on around the gun shows,,, opprotunists sold them at inflation scaled prices of around $100 or so bucks equal to this trigger crap device. If ya wanna rock ,, just do it and build a m.g. and get it outta your system. It will become old done that been there and you will get on to the finer things like precision long range shooting or for you Walter Midday type “sniper” rifles.
    Seriously there are zillions of surplus military and diy conversion underground toys owned by jon q public. Remember when guns are outlawwed only SCOFFLAWS will have guns. Just what is the deposition of all those Stennguns, Cobrays, Openbolt Uzi, Mps, Thompsons, M16 lowers and ar 15 drop ins???
    You dont hear too much about those dangerous threats to the public being used in the common criminal element. No because those who own them keep hem safely buried away. Only the utmost uncommon cartel criminal have arms that are usually already sold by the regular global arms military dealers and the agencies that meddle in the internal destablizations of govt.

    • 762x51 January 15, 2014, 5:58 pm

      Ummm . . . the whole point of this product is that they have approval from BATFE for it. Doing as you suggest and building an unregistered full auto lower is extremely bad advice. I hope everyone reading this understands that and ignores your words, they are ridiculous.

      If BATFE catches you with an unregistered full auto lower you WILL go to prison, unless you are Eric Holder, that is what those guys live for. If you don’t like this product then don’t buy it but don’t advise people to commit a felony just because you don’t have the money to buy one of these.

  • Joe Dahl January 15, 2014, 4:52 pm

    One other thought,
    Just like a clandestine true rock n roll blaster…. where can ya go and blast away long strings of aimless fast rate of repetitious fire? If you got a nice place of private plinking that you can get away with such wasteful show of destructive shows of erectile dysfunction….. then ya might as well just build a true scofflaw f.a. anyways and shoot the real thing! Im tired of hearing about all this political righteousness. The truth is you are going to do what youre going to do. I have yet to see anyone legitimately hand over there ban guns once they have been legislated. Just like high cap mags in california.

  • gazzmo January 15, 2014, 10:51 pm

    I am with 762×51. If the trigger works reliably and is legal, then 5 bills (yes, damn expensive) seems not so bad for the guy who wants configure his AR as such. As for erectile dysfunction, I guess that’s as good an excuse as any!

    • 762x51 January 16, 2014, 3:28 pm

      I never considered the ED aspect. Usually the confiscators use that as a pejorative against gun owners, implying that guns are some kind of replacement for virility, etc. Dolts.

      I agree that $500 is steep and I assume it will be an MSRP and be available for less from dealers and online. They will have to get the actual price more in line with the other premium fire control manufacturers I mentioned before or eventually they will run out of market. If they sell it to dealers for $300 and the dealers offer for $400 then they will succeed. The mechanism is a little more complicated than a standard trigger/seer/hammer/selector set up which is where the additional cost comes from. Also I have seen some on this site talk about stamped parts. I haven’t seen one of these IRL but the video looks like machined parts to me and that adds to the costs over stamped parts.

      Finally, to the idiots who compare this device to the old Hellfire trigger crank – Really? I remember those from the ’80s as well and this has absolutely zero resemblance to that thing. Aimed full auto fire is achievable in 5.56mm and some of the other calibers in the AR-15 platform though not all. My .50 Beowulf being an example of calibers which cannot be accurately aimed in full auto fire. It is a tactically valid system when used as suppressive fire to advance an assault or break contact with a numerically superior opposing force. If it wasn’t, we would not still be making and using belt fed weapons or the fight ending mini-gun. Just because you don’t know how to use it doesn’t mean that it is not valid, or perhaps you know more than SOCOM and the operators that work in that command. There are a lot of ex-military guys in the civilian market now who know how to employ trigger control in such a doctrine, if you are not one of them then you are better off without his device, many of us can use it effectively.

      • gazzmo January 17, 2014, 12:41 am

        Yeah, I’m thinking other manufactures copy the general design and the competitive forces drives down the price BUT that is only if the ATF does not, in the meantime, change their position on the legality of this trigger. As we know, all it takes is one dimwit to do something stupid.

  • doug stone January 16, 2014, 1:55 am

    Hmm….I checked it out, and looks strangely similar to the d.i.y. published D.I./A.S. designs avail. In the gunshow books like paladin press from back in the 80’s except this thing houses the whole trigger group. Does it use a M16A1 selector switch? The hammer certainly looks like regular M16 The description mentions the bolt carrier activates the trigger reset. So I assume a M16 style carrier without the extra milled out trip area is required. It seems pretty much like a complete trigger group D.I. setup with an AR 15 disconnector and relocated and/or designed trip sear? So whats really going on here with this device? Seems like a device that is just asking to be tampered with and an easy pathway to circumvent manufacturing post NFA weaponry with complete trigger group D.I. From an engineering standpoint I dont see any other value except as to have a legal to market post ’81 drop in housing available to tamper and play nonsense games and modifications to without ruining your expensive higher quality service style rifle frame and more easily subject yourself to greater risk of manufacturing on a registered serial numbered and documented frame.
    Notice the lower quality homebrewed style of this device, very similiar to the Paladin Press A.S. blueprint with its use of roll pins on the pivot points. Not too impressed! Its not that many of us critical of this device cant afford it. It’s that we can afford better for much less and have a nicely tuned trigger fitted from a fine gunsmith and not some mass produced junk that may or may not function correctly in your application. Surely, they are going to hit and run and wont stand the test of time . I imagine you would have to cash in and get the hell out if ya wanna profit off of a bad karma device such as this. I can imagine the liability issues with catastrophic slamfires, prebattery ignition, accidental discharges and then the inability to control the final install testing. The very nature of the device provides a show of intent to encourage and condone tampering with the fire control mechanism of end users firearm. Perhaps the price is right? Cash in and cash the heck out!

  • doug stone January 16, 2014, 5:47 am

    Such high quality, do ya like those roll pins on those pivoting parts? Looks very similiar type of d.I.y. design as the old Paladin Press D.I.A.S.published blueprint. Kinda took it to the next stage and the whole trigger group is dropped in. Looks like a good batf friendly unit that is just asking for someone to tamper with and modify for selective fire, without manufcturing a post ’81 nfa weapon or messing up a legal registered lower.
    Seems like not very fine bit of gunsmithing. I rather pay for a custom made tuned trigger that is hand fitted to my rifle than this generic mass produced device that may cause more problems than worth the trouble to install.
    Potentially could cause slamfires and catstrophic detonation of a round prior to full battery of the carrier or other timing errors of the fire control assembly . Imagine the liabilty for accidental discharge!
    Its not that many of us critical of this unit cant afford it… its that we can afford better for way less. It might be a pathway to acquire certain fire control components. Looks like ya might get a selector switch and bolt carrier , hammer and hybrid disconnector.

    • 762x51 January 16, 2014, 6:00 pm

      On a cursory glance, the pins do look like roll pins. If you enlarge the photo and get more detail they do not appear to be roll pins but appear to contain some type of detente, perhaps an anti-walk feature. As I said before, I have never seen one personally so I can’t speak from experience but I doubt those are roll pins. In the first place those holes are where the pins go that retain the mechanism in the lower so the pins there either are temporary and get removed upon installation or perhaps allow some pass through of the pins that hold the mechanism into the lower.

      Slam fires are a function of out of spec head-space between the bolt and chamber face, not the fire control mechanism. Any out of battery discharge would result from those types of problems not this device. Anyone building their own rifle should be aware of this potential problem and have a set of go /no go head space gauges, period.

      As for the ability to modify this to full auto, that has been done to death with standard trigger mechanisms, both mil spec and after market. It is completely illegal to do so whether you use this one or some other device. Since you don’t like this device, you should definitely buy your hand fitted, custom tuned trigger, it will cost you substantially more but if you are a competitor it may be worth it to you. Maybe you are Jerry Miculek, but I doubt it.

      I don’t see a bolt carrier listed in the parts kit. This device will have to work independent of the BCG so there is no reason to include one. Building a custom rifle is not a money saving approach. If cost is the biggest parameter then buy a Stag Arms for $600 or $700 they make decent quality rifles in that price range. Those of us who build our own do so for specific reasons, least of which is cost. I just wish they made one for the SR-25 pattern carbine I’m building now.

      • doug stone January 23, 2014, 3:03 am

        Maybe if cartridge doesnt fully seat into chamber, and the firing pin is allowed to be striked by the hammer , without the bolt fully locked and the round is ill chambered you will burst a cartridge and resultant blast of gas will likely be catostrophic . I dont think that technically is a slamfire. If the headspace is to gross than the cartridge will be too far forward to recieve the full impact of the firing pin. I would define a slam fire as when the disconnector fails to reset the trigger or other similar conditions whereas the hammer continues to remains in contact with the firing pin as the bolt cycles causing the pin to remain extended and riding on the face of the primer while the bolt travels towards full battery with the momentum and resultant forces possibly discharging the cartridge . A properly milled full auto carrier wont allow the hammer to ride the pin throughout its range of travel, due to the geometry and arc of the hammer and the contact area of the carrier. Any mistiming or failure of the sear to reset can create a pre battery slam fire condition, headspace notwithstanding.

  • Dragonov January 16, 2014, 11:08 am

    I bought 3 of these and this morning tried it out on my colt sp-1. didn’t fire any faster than the stock trigger. My results were the same as what the man had in the video. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent trigger, but it didn’t work as what I thought it would. Maybe I need to put it on an M4….

    • 762x51 January 16, 2014, 6:29 pm

      Oye – AGAIN, the trigger will not MAKE your rifle fire any faster, it just positively resets the trigger so YOU can make it fire faster. You must supply the thought and muscle to make your rifle work faster, this just takes the reset failure out of the fire control equation. If you just pull the trigger and wait for it to do something like in the video you are in for a long wait.

      If you bought three of them, and have them to shoot, you must have gotten the first three off the factory floor as they just started shipping in the last week according to their site.

      I certainly would not have spent $1,500.00 on these without a better understanding of how it works.

    • gazzmo January 17, 2014, 12:50 am

      Dragonov, Can you comment about the roll pins and ease of installation/fit? Get some more time with it and report back. Thanks in advance.

      • Dragonov January 17, 2014, 2:16 pm

        It was easy to put in. had to take the grip off, put the selector in then the trigger just drops into place & the pins are tapped in. and you’re right. I should have looked more closely at how they actually work. I got the first 3 sent out. ordered right at midnight the night they were opened for orders. I guess I was supposed to feel the trigger push forward so i could pull it again, but after a couple of 30-round mags i hadn’t mastered it yet. Got the whole slide fire thing on the first mag. I didn’t realize there was such a learning curve to these. Really pretty disappointed. I couldn’t make it go like the advertisements showed.

  • Zakman January 31, 2014, 11:29 am

    Learning curve is an understatement. Plain an simple this does not work as advertised. I got caught up in the hype and bought a $1000.00 receiver with this mechanism in it and took it to the range at the store… Can out with questions, as there are no instructions. No one could explain the mechanics or method to employ to get this functional. A few minutes later the owner came out and was trying to demonstrate its use, to no avail. I was able to get a full refund, (whew!!!) as this product is essentially an 1/8″ pull no slack 5lb trigger.
    SIDENOTE: I slapped my upper back on my receiver and equipped the slide fire stock, ripped a 60 round surefire mag, and had everyone’s attention..and a smile back on my face.
    Save your money, buy a timney or gisselle, this is hyped crap snake oil the likes of hellfires.
    IMHO

  • Brandon February 6, 2014, 10:49 am

    I was so wanting to get this until I watched this demo. Think I’ll save my money and do my own “poor mans trigger job”.

  • Brandon Donatto March 10, 2014, 2:59 pm

    These can be bought at http://www.firearmsystems.net

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