Armed Citizen – ‘True Hero’ – Stops Cop Killer, Fatally Wounded By Police Accidentally

John Hurley, a “true hero,” according to Arvada Police Chief Link Strate, stopped an active shooter but lost his own life in the process. (Photo by: Cody Soules)

Tragedy in Olde Town Arvada, Colorado, this week as police fatally wounded a good guy with a gun after he stopped a cop killer dead in his tracks. 

John Hurley, 40, was shopping at the Arvada Army Navy Surplus store on Monday afternoon when shots rang out across the street at a plaza.  

At that scene, a shooter, later identified as 59-year-old Ronald Troyke, ambushed a local police officer named Gordon Beesley.  Officer Beesley would not survive the attack. 

Before Troyke could sow more carnage, Hurley jumped into action, according to witness Bill Troyanos, an employee of the surplus store. 

“He did not hesitate; he didn’t stand there and think about it. He totally heard the gunfire, went to the door, saw the shooter and immediately ran in that direction,” Troyanos told Denver7. “I just want to make sure his family knows how heroic he was.”

Mr. Hurley instructed bystanders to take cover while he prepared to confront the killer.  

“He turned back and looked towards everybody at the restaurant and told us that he (the gunman) is coming, that he is coming back and that we should get inside,” said a manager of a nearby business who asked not to be identified. “I ran to the back of the store, closer to the alley, kind of ‘nooked’ myself in a corner just to feel safe.”

Troyanos watched from the store as Hurley neutralize the threat.

“Mr. Hurley shot him. I think I heard 6 shots from his gun, maybe 5,” Troyanos said. The suspect slumped against a parked car.

An investigation is ongoing to determine what happened next. But local news station Denver7 is reporting that a responding officer mistakenly shot Hurley.  

During a Tuesday press conference, Arvada Police Chief Link Strate called Hurley a “true hero who likely disrupted what could have been a larger loss of life.”

Chief Strate also commented on a potential motive for the initial assault on the officer.  

“Officer Beasley was ambushed by someone who expressed hatred of police officers,” Strate said, noting that investigators found a note written by the suspect that contained threats against Arvada police officers. 

Erin Hurley, John’s sister, declined to give a comment to The Associated Press, but wrote the following statement on Facebook.  

“Johnny acted without hesitation and possibly saved many lives while sacrificing his own,” she said. Friends have started a GoFundMe page for the Hurley Family.  

The Arvada Police Department, meanwhile, is hoping to complete the investigation in the coming days.

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About the author: S.H. Blannelberry is the News Editor of GunsAmerica.

{ 106 comments… add one }
  • mattroski June 30, 2021, 10:42 am

    The irony here. This guy killed a guy, that killed a cop; only to be killed by the tyrants he defends. Safety isn’t a right, it’s a responsibility, and if you think someone else is responsible for you’re safety; you will soon lose both.

    If you boot licking police lovers don’t think the police will be used to rob you of your rights, than you don’t read history and have never dealt with cops.

    Follow the money right back those who will make you slaves.

  • COMMANDER June 27, 2021, 11:28 pm

    YOU IDIOTS HAVE YOUR HEADS SO FAR UP YOUR ASSES YOU CAN’T EVEN SEE WHAT’S GOING ON RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES . . . THESE DEB , LIB , SOCIALISTS ARE TURNING OUR BEAUTIFUL AMERICA INTO A 3rd. WORLD SHIT HOLE ! ! ! RELEASING ALL THE CRIMINALS BACK INTO THE STREETS . . . NO WONDER THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE UP 200 % HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK OF BLAMING THE POLICE FOR ANYTHING WHEN THEY ARE PROTECTING YOUR DUMB ASSES. GO CALL A CRACK HEAD OR A GANG MEMBER THE NEXT TIME YOU NEED THE POLICE ! ! ! I KNOW YOU WON’T PRINT THIS BECAUSE I READ ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS AND THEY ARE ALL ONE SIDED.

  • Mike Colorado June 27, 2021, 3:34 pm

    Let’s see if the DA seals the record because they will not want to release the corners report that shows wound entrance and exit of the hero’s body. This incident is 100% lack of training and when does it become and accident? There is no such thing as an accidental discharge of a firearm it is called a Negligent Discharge. They were extremely tight lipped at the onset of this investigation which shows they were trying to figure out how to release or not release the information to the public. Real life scenario based shoot no shoot simunition training is paramount in law enforcement and I don’t care if you are a small agency or a large agency. In law enforcement your ink pen and your computer get used more times then your weapon. Which immediately reduces your accuracy with a weapon from lack of training due to a reduced budget or they don’t care about their accuracy while qualifying at the range and are just there to try to qualify. As a whole there is a very small percentage of officers that shoot 90th percentile or higher not under stress within an agency . Throw stress into it and their accuracy can be diminished from 10 to 30 percent depending on their training. Good training with lots of stress to bring adrenaline dumps and pain compliance from the simunition makes a law enforcement officer able to think clearly under stress and be able place a round when required on target in a shoot or no shoot situation. Until they reach that level of training I hate to say it but it is hilarious to watch them during the training process because they will shoot everything because their adrenaline takes over. But the sad part their are officers who will never reach that level of proficiency no matter how much training they receive. The hero did not have to die and the news story proves that from the witness comments of him telling them to take cover. The witnesses who are not trained listened and reacted to his commands to get inside a store or restaurant. Now the officer will have to live with their decision and actions for the rest of his or her life and their coworkers will never look at them the same again because they are now a liability because of taking the life of an innocent man.

  • Joe June 27, 2021, 1:33 pm

    A lot of you are completely off base here. Clearly a tragic event, but lets not be so quick to condemn the police here. You people clearly have no clue what it is like to be a cop. I see military vets in here who are also completely clueless. You hear another police officer has just be shot dead, active shooter situation, you arrive on scene to witness a guy with a gun actively shooting someone…yeah, you’re gonna shoot. It’s not just a random cop, it’s likely a good friend. And to all the vets running their mouth. Imagine your best friend in the service was just gunned down, you turn the corner to see a possible combatant actively shooting people…yeah you’d shoot too.

  • JAMES DONALDSON June 26, 2021, 3:16 pm

    I SEE THE THOUGHT CRIME POLICE HAVE REMOVED MY COMMENTS…SO MUCH FOR LIBERTY AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!

    • KCsmith June 26, 2021, 11:24 pm

      Hey, guy, why don’t you sit the next few plays out, ok?

  • JAMES DONALDSON June 26, 2021, 3:11 pm

    WHEN YOU LIVE IN A POLICE STATE THE STATE IS GOD AND YOU MUST OBEY THE NAZI SS POLICE AND ALL THEIR BAD EVIL LAWS. YOU HAVE NO VOICE AND WEAR CHAINS AND MUZZLES AND MUST OBEY THEM…ONLY THE POLICE CAN HAVE GUNS AND CAN KILL AND MURDER AND IT IS CALLED DOING THERI DUTY OR JOB! WELL WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU OR YOUR FAMILY AND DRAG YOU TO THE DEATH FEMA CAMPS AND STEAL ALL YOUR TOYS AND RAPE YOUR WOMEN AND PUT A BULLET IN YOUR HEAD IT WILL BE A LITTLE TO LATE TO STOP THEM! THEY SPEND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON ALL THERI FANCY POLICE TOYS AND ALL THEIR JAILS AND PRISONS. PLEASE DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GOD, YOUR COUNTRY, LIBERTY, FREEDOM OR YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS IF YOU DO YOU ARE CALLED A RACIST DOMESTIC TERRORIST! THEY ARE GETTING READY TO KICK IN YOUR DOORS AND SHOOT YOU! ALL IN THE NAME OF PEACE, LOVE, SECURITY, SAFETY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT! TAKE THAT BS EDUCATION YOU GOT AND GET SOME REAL TRUTHS AND FACTS. SO MANY NWO BRAIN WASHED SLAVES! HOW SAD. AMERICA IS DEAD AND SOON THEY ARE GOING TO BURY US ALL OR BURN US ALL UP! THE POWER OF NEGATIVE THINKING IS REALITY. GET OFF THE FANTASY ISLAND AND LOVE BOAT POSITIVE BS! IT ONLY GETS YOU A DEATH SENTENCE!

  • JAMES DONALDSON June 26, 2021, 3:02 pm

    POLICE PSYCHOPATHS GONE CRAZY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND??? WAKE THE HELL UP!

  • JAMES DONALDSON June 26, 2021, 2:59 pm

    THE TRUTH IS POLICE SHOT KILLED—– MURDERED AND INNOCENT MAN! JUST ANOTHER IDIOT COP! WHO IS GOING TO POLICE THE POLICE? WELL THEY SHOT AND KILLED ANOTHER WHITE MALE. NO BIG DEAL. IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BLACK MAN THE WORLD WOULD STOP SPINNING AND THE FAKE NEWS WOULD GO CRAZY! QUIT FEELING SORRY FOR THE POLICE! MOST ARE BRAIN WASHED NWO SLAVES FOR SATAN. TREATING PEOPLE LIKE SHIT AND CRIMINALS. WE DO NOT NEED GERMAN SS NAZI MILITARY POLICE IN AMERICA! OH MY GOD WHITE MALE WITH A GUN DROP HIM HE MUST BE A KILLER! BS IS BS! THE COP THAT SHOT AND KILLED HIM SHOULD NEVER WEAR A BADGE AGAIN! IT MIGHT BE YOU THAT GETS RAN OVER, SHOT, TORTURED OR EVEN RAPED BY OUR MODERN DAY TYRANNY POLICE WITH HATE, ANGER, PRIDE AND EGO PROBLEMS! THE STATE IS NOT GOD! JUST A BUNCH OF COWARDLY SATANIC BABY KILLERS. HEY MAN WE NEED MORE STUPID ANTI-AMERICAN LAWS YOU CAN FORCE ON US ALL!!!! WE LOVE BLACK BOOTS IN OUR FACES AND WE LOVE OUR NAZI SS POLICE!

  • KCsmith June 26, 2021, 12:32 pm

    Hate to say it, but if me and mine are out of harm’s way, I’m not running into a gunfight.
    It’s not my responsibility to protect someone who decides not to be able to protect themselves.
    I made sure I had my gun on me when I left the house this morning. If you didn’t, well, I’m sorry, but your personal safety and protection is your responsibility, just like mine is for me.

    • Slim June 27, 2021, 1:17 am

      Agreed! I carry for the same exact reason! Sad most of the population thinks it’s the last and never trained enough cops to be in the exact place crap goes the second it goes down so everyone there can be protected by one cop, purely morons these people are! FYI… Even if your a felon you can legally own and carry a black powder pistol which is a joke compared to what I call real guns, but better than having your junk in your hand when a guys is trying to kill you in my opinion! Just look for your local laws regarding where you can carry it as it may need to be carried in a small bag\container since carrying on your person even if it’s a black powder pistol. And it is BS that since its a white guy nobody in my redneck state of Florida where I wound up sadly due to family hasn’t even heard of this on any if the million need channels since like others said it’s just a white guy and not black or there’d be marches as I type this for the guy! Why I cares right?! It’s just one white guy who saved at least a few others! Your think these moron cops would know the description of the shooter bungee time they arrive or at least not be so quick to drop a guy who I’m certain was no longer shooting at anyone! Cops are worthless as in my local red neck state ALL they have to shoot is MAX 250 rounds and that IF they go to school for training and aren’t just hired off the street like most are in order to pass the course! That’s not a guess it hear say, that’s a fact I know because I was almost dumb enough to become a walking target!

  • Gus June 26, 2021, 3:41 am

    After 10 years Air Assault and more than a couple tours under my belt, I can say that if the U.S. Military has to follow rules of engagement in a foreign country or face prison for making wrong choices, we need to train our LEO’s they are protecting AMERICAN CITIZENS and face a much higher bar than rules of engagement with the people they are sworn to serve and protect. Law enforcement officers are not soldiers on a front line and we have been treating them, leaving them unsupported and untrained for far too long. They aren’t there to face an “enemy” but to serve, protect and keep Americans safe. Every day this becomes harder and harder to do but we need to find a way to support and protect our officers while TEACHING them their streets and neighborhoods aren’t combat zones. They deserve to go home every night like all of us, at the same time they’ve been abused, misdirected, politically raped by politicians and sent to do a job without any clear cut guidelines or proper guidance. Time to stop blaming the LEO’s and BLAME THE BEAURACURACY responsible. Imagine having a job where you fear for you and your co-workers safety every minute of every day that you feel like ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN with a gun is a BAD GUY and the only recourse is to shoot them first, no matter the circumstance and with no training to properly discern a real threat from a perceived threat, no proper training to tell a real threat from an innocent armed civilian. Everyone on a battlefield is armed, somehow soldiers don’t go around thinking ANY armed person should be shot first.

  • Max Powers June 26, 2021, 3:33 am

    After reading the comments here, I’m saddened to see some very smart people on various sides of a smidgen of the underlying issues of this tragedy succumbing to the Hegelian Dialectic.

    When we look at an issue from the ground level, we only see what’s immediately in front of us. And we make a decision based on that limited observation.

    But, if we look at a situation from the roof of a 10 story building, we’ll get a different perspective. If we’re 5000 feet up in a helicopter, we’ll get an even bigger perspective. Jump on a plane and climb to 38000 feet, and our perspective is about as broad as we’re going to be able to get.

    Hopefully, we won’t be distracted by the many other things we see around us at 38K up, and can look downwards on the ground-level scene and the area around it, to help us get a better understanding of the matter in question.

    I recommend expanding your view of this tragedy by looking around the tragedy. I did, and this is what I’ve began to conclude:

    The moral code of society is in tumult.

    The youth of the 1950’s in their “acting out” was nothing compared to the youth of the 1960’s. The youth of the 1970’s acted out a little bit more, but, overall, the youth of the day stretched their wings at what appears to be a natural progression. Same with the 1980’s.

    But, the 1990’s there was quite an exponential shift. A very small portion of the shift came from the music of the day. “Grunge”, “Gangsta Rap” and then “Indie”. The youth were more angry, and, to a degree, beginning to display nihilistic tendencies.

    In the 00’s, the youth started to figure out that they were graduating with expensive college degrees and the marketplace of their chosen studies had no job for them, yet, the payments on the loan to get the education were coming due.

    There were movements again, like the 1960’s. Occupy Wall Street, etc. The music got angrier. The community standards of what the airwaves would play to the masses were relaxed. The kids got even angrier in lockstep.

    Hope and change was promised from the “top” in 2008. By 2015, substantial change was hopeless. The “people” rose up a bit and elected the exact opposite to the “top” in 2016.

    But, let’s get back up to 38000 feet and look around a bit more. Are these and many other root causes of where we sit today as a society by natural progression? Or an intelligent design by something or someone a bit more nefarious?

    The cops throughout this same aforementioned period of time have responded to the barometers that society created. The 1950’s cop walked a beat and spanked the youth in the street and walked them home to their parents, who spanked them yet again!

    The cops through the 1960’s followed the societal majority and pushed back hard (sometimes too hard) to those who went against the grain, in order to restore “order”.

    The 1970’s cops were the children of the 1950’s, and pretty much maintained the status quo flow.

    The 1980’s cops were a beginning of a shift from cop on the beat to warrior in the trenches. After all, we had declared war on drugs, right? Who goes to war? Warriors! These were the cops who were children in the 1960’s and had a vastly different viewpoint on matters from the senior cops who were kids in the 1940’s and 1950’s. In the scheme of things, I’d call this the best time for policing. A moral code was still strong amongst the people and the cops were beginning to get some pretty decent training to respond to the problems of the day.

    Did you know that out of all the episodes of CHiPS (1977-1983), Ponch and Jon never pulled or fired their weapons on the show? But, by 1989 a new “raw” show had taken over the airwaves. “COPS” In less than 10 years, clearly showed the narrative/perception of law enforcement was changing.

    The 1990’s saw the big fat crime bill and the COPS grants. This is what I would call the most definitive time in modern day American Law Enforcement. This is a comment for the comment section, not a comprehensive book, but, suffice to say, this is when I saw the shift to what we have today begin to take it’s shape. It was the militarization of policing.

    The progression between the 1990’s and today went from a complete elimination of a cop on the beat, to the militarization of the force, to a HARDER militarization, to the newest incarnation, an evisceration and a complete focus shift from “warrior” to “guardian”.

    Society, through a de-fund narrative, has caused this paradigm shift to rapidly occur, too rapidly for the system to adjust. It’s a behemoth. It’s a bureaucracy. It takes time to re-tool.

    But, why the rapid shift in society? Social media? A shift to instant gratification/communication? Historically, you used to come home to find a message on the home phone to call someone, before the days of the answering machine, only if someone was home (usually a mom) to take the message. Today, you instantly hear a “ding” on your phone from your pocket, wherever you are! Could this be just one facet of the issue at hand?

    So, I recommend to each and every one of you that you look beyond the minutiae of this tragedy. We can always discuss the finer points of this specific incident, but, it doesn’t work towards it not happening with frequency in the future.

    Get a higher perspective. Why are we, in the span of about 60 years, a society that appears to be moving backward, not forward. Who is causing it? Why? What’s the goal? Where is the moral code? Where is the voice of sanity? And, most importantly, what are you willing to do about it? What’s your hill that you’ll die on? Are you ready to take that hill and defend it to the death?

    You can take a hill all by your lonesome, but, be prepared for it to be taken by a group that wants it. BUT, if you have a bigger group, and you all agree its a hill worthy of a fight . . . the outcome will be remarkably different.

    Please, let’s not dwell on the tragedy presented in the article. None of us were there, and we don’t have enough of the details to be a productive armchair quarterback.

    Instead, let’s find others who are like-minded in their desire for a better society and work against the forces that have more sinister plans . . . Together, we can take on the Hegelian Dialectic and shine bright light on the darkness. And, what happens when you do that? The rats and the cockroaches scurry away into whatever darkness they can find . . . I’ll leave my light on for ya!

    Stay safe, stay aware, and stay ready for what’s yet to come . . .

  • Cd June 25, 2021, 9:32 pm

    Police dre so incompetent. They cant even tell good from bad..dont be a hero..because a idiot cop a just gun you down…senseless

  • Ej harbet June 25, 2021, 8:49 pm

    We need to come up with a plan to minimize the chances of being mistaken for a bad guy. Mine is to set my weapon on the ground once I’m certain the bg is no longer a threat and sit with my hands raised and announce loudly my cooperation with arriving Leo’s.

    • Thomas Larson June 27, 2021, 7:23 am

      The tragic lesson here is how not to be perceived as the threat to a police officer who is responding to an active shooter call. Laying your firearm on the ground and raising your hands as the police roll up is not a terrible idea. If there’s still bullets flying, do that behind cover. Let the cops take over. Very sad ending. My thoughts and prayers go out to that Patriots’ family.

  • MK June 25, 2021, 6:36 pm

    “Better to be a live witness than a dead hero”.

  • Tristam J Sculthorpe June 25, 2021, 5:42 pm

    Between 3% and 5% of the male population are sociopaths. Policing is sociopath’s 7th most favorite career (out of 1,200 careers). MAYBE we should think twice or even thrice before giving a sociopath a gun and a badge.

  • Grant Stevens June 25, 2021, 5:07 pm

    I was a child of the 1950s. Our biggest concern then was “duck and cover.” There were no school shootings, and shootings by the police most likely resulted in the death of a rabid dog, not a person. Since Cain and Able there has always been murder and mayhem. But it appears the insanity of the left has created a culture of increasing chaos and violence. ANTIFA and BLM are its shock troops. One need only see the murder-fest in Chicago each year to realize just how low our society has sunk. Did our civilization start circling the drain when the “counter culture” kicked God out of school in 1963? After all, without God all things are permissible. Or because the man of the house was replaced with a monthly welfare check from Uncle Sam? With few miscreants being held accountable and responsible for their actions, it is little wonder criminal behavior is flourishing. This holds true for politicians as much as it does for the man on the street. Violence is a cultural and spiritual issue, not a political one. It will only get worse until America once again becomes a moral nation, instilling a right-from-wrong conscience in its progeny. Blaming guns for this violence is like blaming cars for highway deaths. We can speculate all we want on why this selfless hero was tragically killed, but all we can really do is thank him for preventing the murder of others and pray for him and his family. And God help us all if we cannot instill a conscience in this nation.

  • Ruddy June 25, 2021, 5:01 pm

    This is the end result of the media,”Community :Leaders”, BLM, teachers, and idiot politicians who deliberately push police hatred.

  • Robert Brooks June 25, 2021, 4:42 pm

    It’s tough because the poor cops fear for their lives. However If you are that fearful, find other employment.
    One of the reasons we have a 2nd amendment is that it is our duty to aide/support the LEO’s when the situation presents itself. That’s a tough one thoe. For a cop to be able to asses a situation and act properly is asking alot. The cops seem to want all of us disarmed. This way ,when they arrive on the scene of a disturbance, anyone with a gun can be treated as an aggressor? I don’t know.

  • Richard June 25, 2021, 3:48 pm

    So the lesson is to not come to the aid of someone who’s life is threatened by a scumbag for fear of getting dead by another who has not been trained in a gun fight.

  • JOHN T. FOX June 25, 2021, 2:11 pm

    THE COP THAT SHOT HURLY IS GUILTY! IF THIS WAS A CAR ACCIDENT THEY WOULD CALL IT MANSLAUGHTER? FIRST, THE COP NEEDS TO BE FIRED.
    SECOND, THE COP NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL.
    THIRD THE COP CAN NEVER SERVE AS A COP OR OWN A GUN AGAIN!
    FOURTH, $20,000,000 NEEDS TO BE PAID TO HURLYS HEIRS.

    • Ruddy June 25, 2021, 5:04 pm

      Not enough information in the story to make all those assumptions.

    • sid costello June 26, 2021, 6:50 am

      Yes, you are right. The cops really don’t care who shoot, just as long as they get to do it. It happens in the county where I live in nor-Cal more often than you’d believe. The deputy who pumped 9 rounds into an unarmed 12 year old kid in broad daylight wasn’t fired….he was promoted…really.

  • Joe Citizen June 25, 2021, 2:04 pm

    Using the opportunity of this tragic story while looking back into the feudal history and considering the current societal issues, i.e. BLM, riots in DemonCrap-run cities, de-fund the police, etc., I think we need to ponder a few things on the evolutionary path of our society:
    1. A NPR podcast (OK, left-leaning liberal, but still worthy of listening just to understand what we are up against) described the history and philosophy of police in the U.S. were rooted in slave-catching and suppression of new immigrants; therefore the methods and conducts are “harsher” and more “ruthless” than other societies. Is there any bits of truth to this view point?
    2. Who are the police “To Protect And Serve” with their slogan?
    A. Is it themselves? Because they consider themselves as Knights in Kevlar Armor or Samurai, and all want to “go home to their loved ones” at shift end.
    B. Is it their Lords and Ladies (Schumer, Pelosi, Cuomo, AOC, That Woman In Michigan, etc.)? Because these self-promoting elites accord them some privileges and issue their food rations?
    C. Is it us – the tribute-offering Common Folk? Why would they call us “civilians”? Are we in a constant state of war? Against whom? Are our lives less worthy than theirs – obviously?
    3. Do we – the taxpayers – bear some of the blames because we
    A. Neglected our Civic class lessons to fully understand our constitutional rights and
    B. Neglected our RESPONSIBILITIES by electing these so-called public leaders despite their arrogance / incompetence / dereliction of duties / treasonous philosophies?
    C. Allowed certain members of society to operate above the norms and ethics of common society? Notice I didn’t use the word “law” because unethical elites will always bend and stretch all laws (except the Laws of Physics) to their personal benefits.
    D. We are being punished every time a multi-millions dollar settlement is handed to some families because those gold coins certainly didn’t come out of the mayor, or the police chief, or the police officer’s pockets.

    Once these philosophical questions are answered, perhaps we can drill into the details on
    1. What do we expect from our law enforcement?
    2. What type of recruits (IQ, MORAL COMPASS, personality, psychological stability, etc.) do we want?
    3. How will we train and compensate them as careered professionals for the well-being of all instead of thugs with badge or rabid dogs in uniform. Or worse, taxpayer funded private Queen’s Guard for Lady Pelosi.
    4. Should we shift some of police (brute force) responsibilities / responses / interactions into other (soft) interactions? I recall a case of teenager with mental problems wielding some garden tools in the front yard. Parents called 911 for assistance. Polizei killed the teenager upon arrival, because “the suspect resisted their commands and was a direct threat to their (Polizei) safety”.
    – Could the parents have sought help from Social Services instead?
    – Could the responding officer have had the personality / training / composure to may be retreat 2 steps and try to de-escalate?
    – Some would call this Monday-morning quarterbacking, but unless we — the Tribute Bearers — ask these serious questions and implement changes, the situation will only worsen and offer ever more pretext / excuses / rationales for Supreme Leader BJ, Comrade Pelosi, and the rest of Washington Politburo to strip away our rights and freedom starting with 2A.

    ARE WE ARE NOT BEING SLOWLY TAMED, DOMESTICATED by these Bolsheviks?

  • Doug Riding June 25, 2021, 1:30 pm

    This turned out to be a real ‘shit show’… Both for the dead officer and the dead citizen…

    I would expect – at least – that the city should step up with a multi-million dollar payment to John’s family…

  • Steven G June 25, 2021, 12:37 pm

    It becomes a matter of survival, being a retired police officer, it’s hard to say what was going through everyone’s mind because many things come into play! First tunnel vision takes place as everyone tries to figure out in an instance what happened! You have a dead police officer from a worthless scum bucket who now was just killed by an armed citizen doing his duty! The citizen is definitely the hero in this case and my prayers go out to him and his family! He saved many lives by not hesitating! Then he loses his life by responding police officers! It’s a tough and hard situation to be in. We shouldn’t armchair quarterback this. What happen to our citizen hero is truly traffic!

  • KCsmith June 25, 2021, 12:21 pm

    Oh man, can you imagine what would be happening right now if that guy was black?

  • oldedude June 25, 2021, 12:09 pm

    I regularly get calls from these “Support the Blue” groups, which always start out claiming that the police need my help because they are “under fire” from certain elements of society. Thus far, I’ve politely declined their importunities, but I’ve held my tongue on “why”. So, let’s put the issue front and center: IF THE POLICE WANT ME TO DECLARE THAT I’M ON THEIR SIDE, ARE THE POLICE WILLING TO DECLARE THEMSELVES ON MY SIDE? We’ve seen it far too often – in DC, in Portland, in San Fran and St. Louis, where the police have stood by while BLM & ANTIFA and other leftist groups riot and burn (actively protecting them in some cases) while rousting counter-demonstrators just for being there. It was cops who arrested the McCloskeys for defending themselves, but they want me to defend them? My Sheriff and his deputies have declared themselves on my side against over-reach by the politicians, but the police have not, being content to play “the good soldier Schweik” to please their political masters (the same ones throwing them under the bus). They have turned “Protect and Serve” into “Grovel and Obey”. This may be an extreme case, but I think it fair to require the police to care as much about the death of Mr. Hurley as they did about Mr. Floyd’s, maybe I’ll reassess. Until then, I’m a neutral in this fight.

    tif dismissive, for one unspoken reason, which I’m increasingly inclined to give voice to. In Portland (and St. Louis, among others), we’ve seen the police actively protecting BLM/ANTIFA rioters while rousting or arresting those (such as the McCloskeys) who stand up to them. Now we have a cop killing a hero and we hear nothing about it while Off. Chauvin pays the price for restraining Mr. Floyd. SO, here’s my question: Before you ask if I’m on the side of the police, how about you tell me if the police are on MY side.

  • tyler kent June 25, 2021, 11:52 am

    What the heck does “on accident” mean? If you mean “accidentally” you should use that word.

  • Dano June 25, 2021, 10:59 am

    This isn’t the first time and it most certsinly won’t be the last. This is absolutely the reality of suggesting an armed populace is going to be effective at reducing gun- related crime. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn’t thinking rationally. I carry and this is what keeps me up at night.

    • KCsmith June 25, 2021, 12:13 pm

      You’re an imbecile.
      You say an armed populous can’t stop gun crime, but that is precisely and exactly what happened here.
      Talk about not thinking rationally, you’re not thinking at all!

      • Bob June 25, 2021, 3:09 pm

        Imbecile? Take a good look in the mirror. When cop pulls up to a scene and sees two dead people on the ground with guns and one live civilian with a gun he can’t tell the good guy from the bad guy. That’s why civilians should not act like cops unless they want to get shot by a cop. Imagine being a cop and pulling up to a scene with ten bad guys with guns and ten good guys with guns, who would you shoot?

        • HONDO June 25, 2021, 7:20 pm

          Is there a dog in this equation ?

        • Doc Loch June 26, 2021, 12:25 am

          Well, a good cop would assess the situation realizing that there are risks in life. I have a job that is much more dangerous than law enforcement. I know about risk assessment. If I just lashed out brainlessly without assessment as obviously happened here (failure to properly determine situational paradigm) I would die or hurt others and be held much more accountable (accidentally or not) than the officer is likely to be.

          Police are not trained properly today. They are also indoctrinated into believing foolish societal ideologies that have destroyed the ability to engender trust. This society needs to restart, but not the way the WEF thinks!

        • KCsmith June 26, 2021, 12:23 pm

          Oh good, another imbecile. You seem to travel in packs.
          You COMPLETELY missed the point of what I said. I’m not even sure you meant to respond to my comment, since your reply was entirely unrelated to what I said.

  • JOE June 25, 2021, 10:50 am

    PROOF AGAIN THAT POLICE ARRIVING AT A SHOOTING SCENE CAN SHOOT THE HERO BY JUST SEEING A PERSON WITH A GUN.
    THERE IS NO WAY TO IMMEDIATELY KNOW WHO MAY BE A GOOD SAMARITAN WITH A GUN VRS A BAD GUY WITH A GUN.
    WHAT THE HERO SHOULD OF DONE WAS TO DROP HIS WEAPON ONCE HE NEUTRALIZED THE BAD GUY. HERO’S MISS STEAK 🥩 WAS TO BELIEVE RESPONDING OFFICER WOULD SOMEHOW KNOW HE WAS A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN

    • Rob Thomas June 25, 2021, 12:33 pm

      That’s a terrible idea. Often there is more than one attacker. Drop the gun and his partner will drop you. There’s a youtube channel called active self protection. He’ll show you all about that and lessons to learn.

      Wasn’t there. Don’t know how it happened. After shooting the threat go to low ready. Scan. See the cops then slowly put it on the ground. Do what they say. Even if you start to point it towards him you’ll probably get shot. Could be he saw him shooting and assumed he was the bad guy.

      I have a feeling the bad guy will be yet another person that wasn’t allowed to have a gun.

      • Dano June 25, 2021, 2:11 pm

        Agree on the possibility of another bad guy but not on low ready if LEOs are responding. Reholster or place on a nearby surface.

        It has to be out of your hand.

        Our hero by this report seemed to have a good level of competence so I doubt he raised his weapon on the officer but these days that doesn’t matter. Everyone wants to go home so have nothing in your hands.

        If you’ve practiced as you should and have a decent rig you should be able to get a sub 2 second hit from the draw at 7 yards.

      • Ruddy June 25, 2021, 5:09 pm

        I don’t agree. Not enough information here to make Monday morning QB assumptions.
        Rarely is there another perp. In my classes, I teach students to put your gun away (reholster, in pocket, or on ground) and step on it with your hands held high.

    • Daniel June 25, 2021, 5:06 pm

      A lot of this comes down to timing. I don’t know what the time frame was, but if responding officer came to the scene minutes after the suspect was put down, he’s not supposed to open fire immediately on anybody who has a fucking gun. You do not fire unless you witness action warranting the use of deadly force.
      If he arrived as the suspect was shot, then that’s a different story entirely.

      There are definitely reasons to not immediately disarm yourself after shooting a would-be mass murderer, but again it comes down to timing. If he had time to assess the bad guy and remove his weapon from reach then MAYBE he should have reholstered…but if he didn’t know whether there was a second gunman…well…

  • John Boutwell June 25, 2021, 10:40 am

    I have often thought about this being the outcome if one intervenes , I think one needs to consider this very real possibility.

  • R.R. June 25, 2021, 10:40 am

    You sound like a cop-hating liberal bedwetter. I’ll bet you had a lot of fun in the Burn Loot and Murder riots last year. The investigation is ongoing and we know few facts, but you’re finding all cops guilty of incompetence. You’re pathetic.

    • dave brown June 25, 2021, 11:31 am

      You need to read your own comments 100 times as you appear to be a huge part of The Problem. Thus my Solution is read what you wrote 100 times as you need to free your mind from whatever you are allowing to control your thinking. Simple

    • KCsmith June 25, 2021, 12:15 pm

      You sound like a badge-sniffing apologist

  • Joe Citizen June 25, 2021, 9:54 am

    Yes, we’ve all heard it before: “There’s the urgency of the situation, the heat of the moment, etc., etc…” But somehow 99% of them seem to ignore the other natural response: Flight. Would ducking and assessing the situation be so bad? How and can de-escalation work?
    May I suggest:
    1. Police officer candidates must be IQ tested. Do you really want a retard or gung ho ex-high school nose tackle with 2.0 GPA making life and death decision?
    2. Polizei are issued Kalifornia capacity magazine if using semi-auto or back to revolvers with 6 (8 max) rounds in the cylinder. They have proven themselves incapable of decent (not even good) trigger discipline, so they deserve to be treated as incompetent until proven otherwise. Active Polizei are also prohibited from possession of standard capacity magazine in their duty weapon.
    3. All officers must be rabies vaccinated so they stop behaving like rabid dogs; unless it’s the steroid left over from high school days kicking in again.
    4. Disband all police unions and abolish any and all special treatments that have been accorded: They must be treated like any of us “civilian” as they like to call. And fine / punishment doubles for “law enforcement”.

    Hopefully this bring everyone back on equal footing and instill some basic common sense in our society…

    • R.R. June 25, 2021, 10:38 am

      You sound like a cop-hating liberal bedwetter. I’ll bet you had a lot of fun in the Burn Loot and Murder riots last year. The investigation is ongoing and we know few facts, but you’re finding all cops guilty of incompetence. You’re pathetic.

  • Michael Cust June 25, 2021, 9:32 am

    If I was the good guy after neutralizing the threat I would have holstered my gun so when the cops showed up I would not look like a threat to them. I guess he still had his gun visible to the cop.

    • James Chandler June 25, 2021, 1:58 pm

      And how do you know that the police officer didn’t show up three seconds after the hero shot the scumbag? How did the hero automatically 100% know that the scumbag didn’t have an accomplice? It’s very easy for us to say what should have happened from the comfort of our living room. If we’re saying what should have happened, the murderous scumbag with a gun should ha stayed home that day.

  • Dan Crocker June 25, 2021, 9:09 am

    If you carry, suggest you also arm yourself with a badge and ID that you immediately display prominently during and following a shooting.

    Responding cops may not know you and may come to the wrong conclusion – as happened here.

    • KCsmith June 25, 2021, 12:18 pm

      Holy crap. Are you serious??
      Folks, do not carry a badge.

    • Rob Thomas June 25, 2021, 12:21 pm

      They don’t give out badges to those of us with a carry license. We’re not agents of the police force.

      • Blue Dog (he/him) June 25, 2021, 8:41 pm

        Of course they don’t give those badges out. You have to buy a concealed carry badge with your own money!

    • Dano June 25, 2021, 2:14 pm

      Please tell me you don’t do that.

    • Dan Crocker June 26, 2021, 12:31 pm

      Sigh…… when I say badge I am referring to concealed carry design badges. Cops will have tunnel vision. You want them to see what looks like a badge, not a firearm. Light coming on for you people yet?

  • Budd June 25, 2021, 8:42 am

    SO… Let me get this straight. John Hurley, rushes to the DEFENSE of a police officer, being gunned down in an ambush, then protecting other shoppers, drops the armed killer. Then some knee jerking cop shows up and without assessing the situation, shoots Hurley, who just tried to help his brother officer. IF EVER THERE WAS A REASON TO GIVE SOMEONES FAMILY 40 MILLION DOLLARS, IT’S THIS CASE. If the government can dump millions on the families of a dope pusher shot in a drug raid, or a crackhead that swallows his drugs and kills himself, blaming the police…. THEY CAN PAY A FEW MILLION TO THE HURLEY FAMILY!

    • Zubadenzie June 25, 2021, 9:16 am

      So, Budd… How many years experience do you have in law enforcement? How many active shooter situations have you responded to or deadly force incidents have you been involved in? Do you know the chaos that surrounds these violent incidents? I’ll bet you everything I own that the officer that shot and killed Mr. Hurley feels worse about it than you ever will. It was a bad situation that went even worse. Yes, if anyone deserves a civil settlement, the Hurley family does. But, before you start Monday morning quarterbacking this officer, with little to no information or personal experience in this type of he11, don’t start accusing his reaction or assessment. You weren’t there. If you have experienced a situation like this, shame on you for making ignorant assumptions, as to the responding officer’s actions, with no more information than this article.

      • tw June 25, 2021, 10:52 am

        So, Zubadenzie, Do officers arrive on site and shoot anyone with a weapon that is NOT pointed at them? The offer should feel worse about the shooting then ANYONE!. Shame on you for making ignorant comments.

      • Jimbo June 25, 2021, 12:26 pm

        I absolutely agree with you. Another comment above says Hurley should have holstered his gun. That’s true, however, in the chaos of the moment with his adrenaline at an all time high he most likely forgot a lot of things. Besides who’s to say if there was only one bad guy. And THAT is the situation the second cop was in.

      • The Bearded Pretender June 25, 2021, 2:19 pm

        There is no doubt the 2nd cop rushed in guns blazing and murdered this guy before announcing who he was or giving the Hero a chance to respond. This stupid POS needs to be charged with murder and put in jail for being a Dumbf*ck. And if they gave that worthless POS floyd $27 Million, this guy should get double that.

      • Dano June 25, 2021, 2:40 pm

        Most go their whole career without getting into this kind of scrap.

        NO ONE knows how they will behave when the rodeo starts….. until they’re in it.

        I’ve been a responder my whole adult life and I have seen big brawny he men melt into gelatin under stress. I’ve also seen quiet, unassuming little guys just competently get the job done, go home and have a sandwich.

        Stress inoculation training will help somewhat or possibly reveal an individual’s level of stress tolerance but is not guaranteed.

        With defunding underway hiring practices will degrade while the best of the best will go find somewhere else to work. If the mass of society continues to allow a small minority of screaming meemies to get their way it will only get worse.

      • Aquaman June 26, 2021, 2:14 am

        How many doughnuts?
        How many unnecessary tickets?
        How many bullying situations?
        How many gangs talk with fellow officers?
        Zero experience about making easy money and likes to talk about the one of more corrupt careers out there!
        Incredible!!!

        • Dan crocker June 26, 2021, 12:34 pm

          Are you full time clueless or only clueless on the days of the week ending in the letter (y)?

  • Wilko June 25, 2021, 8:24 am

    Tragic, but understandable. First of all, with the threat down, as soon as he knew the police were close, he should have either reholstered his weapon, or laid it on the ground. When the officer rolled up Hurley should have prominently displayed his empty hands. I know, under great stress, hard to remember details, but it would have saved his life.

    About the officer who shot Hurley. Calls for him to be prosecuted are wrong. Think about it: You have an active shooter call and know that another cop has been shot. You roll up – and there’s a man with a gun. Are you going wait for him to fire at you before you shoot? Yes, you should yell, “Drop the gun! Do it now!!” Again, this would have saved Hurley’s life. But, in Hurley’s place, he didn’t do what he should have – understandably. It is exactly the same in the officer’s place – pumped full of adrenalin and responding to one of your fellow officer’s having been shot. Everyone had split seconds to act. All tragic, all understandable.

    • Ratrod June 25, 2021, 9:20 am

      Glad you have all the facts and explained your findings to a ongoing investigation Mr Attorney.

    • Cliff June 25, 2021, 9:25 am

      Maybe he did re-holster his gun. He did everything else right. I worked the graveyard shift in gun free zone stores for 30 years and I have faced a very great deal of needless cop RAGE.

    • Mike June 25, 2021, 12:24 pm

      When I took my CHL on Texas years ago, our instructor taught us what to do in an ‘active shooter’ situation. If you have to take care of business, you do it, and then quickly reholster or put your gun down. Show open hands and non aggressive stance. Render assistance if you have a chance. LEOs will arrive with guns drawn. DO NOT present a threat. Now….with constitutional carry there is zero situational training. I suggest if you feel you need to carry, and I do, get some training first.

    • Suna Z June 26, 2021, 4:13 am

      We did not even see the footage yet. However, I doubt the hero pointed a gun at the cop.
      I bet he (or most likely she) was undertrained, and decided to shoot upon seeing person with a gun. If that was the case, that cops absolutely needs to be prosecuted. PERIOD. If you are a cop and shoot anyone with a gun automatically, you should not be a cop. End of story.

  • Trevor Teague June 25, 2021, 7:45 am

    This time, police shot an ACTUAL good guy… where are the riots? Where’s the looting? Where’s the burning buildings??
    Oh yeah… normal people don’t do that.

    • J Franks June 25, 2021, 8:32 am

      The situation is a little to monochromatic for that behavior.

    • Rob Thomas June 25, 2021, 12:23 pm

      He’s a law abiding citizen and he’s also white. They don’t care about him.

  • Brad June 25, 2021, 7:13 am

    Joe Stalin Biden is a moron with his doubletalk. He’s the one creating the hate along with his idiot followers. Go climb back into your hole.

    • Matt June 25, 2021, 9:20 am

      Car to enlighten us what President Biden has to do with this situation? Can you unplug yourself from Qnon long enough to figure this out?

      • Freedom Party June 25, 2021, 9:52 am

        obummer, stalin Joe and the skank ho are all communist, freedom hating alinskyites. Should all be treated like the traitors they are

        • JOE June 25, 2021, 11:10 am

          DEAR “FREEDOM PARTY” :
          WHERE YOU OR ANY MEMBERS OF THE “FREEDOM PARTY” AT THE JAN 6TH VIOLENT ATTEMPTED OVERTHROW OF OUR DEMOCRACY ?
          IF SO I HOPE THE FBI HAS ALREADY KNOCKED YOUR DOOR DOWN AND IF YOU WHERE THERE BUT HAVENT GOT THROWN IN THE SLAMMER YET, I HOPE YOUR DAY COMES SOON

          • The Bearded Pretender June 25, 2021, 2:22 pm

            Joe…What a Dumbfuck! Please STFU and sit down, men are talking here.

          • 0352 June 26, 2021, 5:09 pm

            We don’t have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic. And there was no violent attempt to “overthrow our democracy.” Dumbass!

    • JOE June 25, 2021, 11:02 am

      😝 DEAR BRAD, YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN DRINKING TOO MUCH ORANGE SATANIC COOL AID.
      HOPE YOU DONT OWN ANY FIRE 🔥 ARMS AND IF YOU DO, MEN IN BLACK SHOULD KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR AND DETERMINE WEATHER YOUR PSYCHOLOGICALLY FIT TO OWN A FIRE 🔥 ARM 😝

      • bigroccrek June 25, 2021, 7:34 pm

        Joe………You sir are robbing a village somewhere of it’s idiot!

  • Claude Brown June 25, 2021, 6:46 am

    What a TRAGIC loss of life for Mr. Hurley, but, until you have stood in the line of duty and been placed to protect and serve, you don’t get the full grasp of the split second decisions that you are required to make.
    My hats off to Mr. Hurley for his Heroic action to save innocent people from a Nut Basket !!! As the saying goes ” No Good Deed Goes Unpunished” The Officer now must face his decision he made, the rest of his life. I hope the department will provide the assistance that he will need to carry on and stand tall for justice.

    • Annoyed June 25, 2021, 10:23 am

      Loving these guys lining up to excuse the cop. Guess what? You can do the wrong thing for good reason and still be wrong. Cops are held to a higher standard, not a lower standard.

    • Suna Z June 26, 2021, 4:16 am

      If your idea of standing “in the line of duty” is simply to shoot a a person with a gun, then you are a moron.
      Police are supposed to be better trained than “heroes” but it looks like it was the other way around, and also, cop ended up being a real villain here.

  • Billy M June 25, 2021, 6:34 am

    There is not a lot of info on what happened after Mr. Harley stopped the shooter. What were his actions when the police arrived? Did he make the mistake of assuming he was the ‘good guy’ in this situation (he was. but to responding officers, he is the shooter)? Hopefully there will be a good investigation with a lot of lessons learned for both police and civilians carrying a weapon.

    • Dr Motown June 25, 2021, 7:51 am

      Surveillance cams? Body cams? Citizen cell phone recordings? Hopefully EVERYTHING gets analyzed and released to the public

  • Recce1 June 25, 2021, 5:54 am

    The officer who shot Hurley should be tried for homicide, perhaps murder 2.

    • JOE June 25, 2021, 11:19 am

      DEAR RECCE1 :
      NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
      WHY ? ALL OFFICER HAS TO SAY IS HE REASONABLY FEARED FOR HIS LIFE ESPECIALLY IF THE GOOD SAMARITAN HAD A GUN IN HIS HAND WHEN THE OFFICER 👮‍♂️ ARRIVED.
      LESSON TO BE LEARNED HERE IS IF YOUR A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN AND YOU NEUTRALIZED THE BAD GUY WITH A GUN DROP YOUR WEAPON BECAUSE THERE COULD OF BEEN A SECOND GOOD GUY WITH A GUN COME UP ON THE AFTERMATH OF THE SITUATION AND DID WHAT THE OFFICER DID THINKING THE GOOD GUY WITH A GUN WAS A BAD GUY WITH A GUN

      • fred schwartz June 25, 2021, 12:38 pm

        Similar to any LEO, I would be hard pressed to holster my weapon until I had ascertained that ALL threats had been eliminated. That is not a one second deal. LEO’s need to learn to slow the heck down and pre-assess, and not just fly in guns blazing.

        Not saying that’s what happened here, just saying that slowing down and mentally assessing only takes a moment – a moment that might just have kept this hero alive.

      • SunamerZ June 26, 2021, 4:20 am

        reasonably fearing fo your life is only possible when someone points a gun at you. I doubt the hero was that stupid. Besides they till did not release the footage, which literally takes 5 minutes. So, why not? I am guessing because it does not present a rosy picture for that shooter-cop.

  • David Gordon June 25, 2021, 5:00 am

    If he was black there would be riots

    • Tristan June 25, 2021, 6:39 am

      If he was black the police would have covered it up and said he was involved in the shooting and it was drug related

      • Meeester June 25, 2021, 7:39 am

        Hey Tristan – if it was two black people killing each other you would just ignore it

        • Kane June 25, 2021, 9:35 am

          I hope we someday learn the details of the CP officer who shot Ashli Babbit.

          Leftists claim “White fragility” is an important issue but the racial charaterisics of active criminals are with held from the public. Why is that Meeester?

      • Rj June 25, 2021, 7:41 am

        Don’t leave out that he shot at police first

      • Freedom June 25, 2021, 9:54 am

        You’re a racist fool

  • paul I'll call you what I want/1st Amendment June 24, 2021, 1:25 pm

    Hey blue shitz-zue do you anti gunners actually listen to what you say? You obviously can’t read to good……The good guy with a gun saved lives period! It is just a shame that the police didn’t get notified of that in time.

  • Blue Dog (he/him) June 24, 2021, 12:16 pm

    I hate to read about this tragic loss of life, but here is where the rubber meets the road on your “good guy with a gun” trope.

    • JR June 25, 2021, 3:20 am

      Not sure what you’re getting at. Your so called “good guy with a gun” saved lives when authorities could not. That’s not trope. That’s a fact. Those that carry a firearm and train using it know and understand there is always a risk of death and that that death may come at the hands of authorities. They accept it and are not afraid of that fact.

      You seem to want your life to be “safe” and to tell others how to be “safe” living their own. The dangers of life are infinite, and among them is safety.

      • J Franks June 25, 2021, 8:41 am

        Don’t feed the troll. Feeding them is worse than feeding stray animals.

    • Grumpy Old Biker June 25, 2021, 4:44 am

      What exactly is your point, idiot? Your education is lacking so badly it’s hard to determine what you’re whining about.

    • Yep yep June 25, 2021, 4:50 am

      Burn in hell

    • kc (sire/your majesty) June 25, 2021, 6:23 am

      Yeah, better to let the bad guy with a gun continue on until he runs out of ammo, or just gets tired or bored.

    • Patriot June 25, 2021, 7:10 am

      Blue Dog is just an idiot as usuall.just some decrepid old guy with no friends,that his husband keeps in the basement,never has anything good to say,just wants people to respond to his uneducated bullshit so he can fell like he has friends..whatever he says is always clueless and stupid,

      • J Franks June 25, 2021, 8:39 am

        He’s a college kid trolling the comment section.

        One day he’ll find someone willing to let him touch their genitals and he’ll settle down or he’ll become an incel if he’s not there already.

        If he becomes an incel, I’m willing to bet he becomes a mass shooter, or at least attempts to become one.

      • MagnumOpUS June 25, 2021, 9:07 am

        Accurate summary of “Blue Dick (it/thing)”.

        Cheers!

    • joe (call me what you want) June 25, 2021, 9:57 am

      You’ve lost the argument when you have to put he/him with your name. It’s getting very tiring.

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