The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle

Authors Will Dabbs
The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine - an extraordinary Israeli rifle
The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine is a uniquely Israeli weapon. I took this picture in Israel in 2012.

Estimated reading time: 14 minutes

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
Images like this from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor rightfully conjured a white-hot rage among Americans of the era.

Dark Days In History

Certain dark days are burned into our national consciousness. For our grandparents’ generation, it was December 7th, 1941. The surprise attack on Pearl Harbor claimed 2,403 American dead and helped precipitate the bloodiest war in human history.

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
Every adult who lived it remembers the details of 9/11.

For us, that day was obviously 9/11. On the 11th of September 2001, nineteen al-Qaeda terrorists directed by Osama bin Laden transformed four heavily-laden airliners into massive manned missiles with which to attack our homeland. Three of the planes struck their targets. The fourth was foiled by the valiant passengers onboard the doomed aircraft. At the end of the day, some 2,977 Americans perished. This egregious terrorist act conflagrated a Global War on Terror that still smolders on more than two decades later. 

Dark Days In Israel

On the morning of 7 October 2023, the nation of Israel had their own 9/11. The attack occurred less than a week ago as I type these words, so the details are still a bit fuzzy. Current estimates are that the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas based in the Gaza Strip launched a widespread attack with up to 2,500 heavily armed militants.

In the first 24 hours these maniacal Islamists murdered at least 1,300 Israelis, most of whom were civilians. Many of the victims were actually children. This was the bloodiest day in modern Israeli history. More Jews perished on this one day than had died on any other single day since the Holocaust. The sheer unfettered brutality of the thing shocked the planet.

A Point of Political Privilege…

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
The Jews are justifiably none too keen on allowing things to come to this again.

I honestly do see both sides to a degree, at least in theory. Six million Jews were institutionally exterminated by the Nazis during World War 2. Many of those who survived made their way to the Middle East and resurrected the historical nation of Israel as a refuge and sanctuary from the hate that nearly wiped them out.

This small piece of dirt, roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, was the only truly safe space in the world for the Jewish people in the aftermath of one of the most efficient and effective genocides in human history. 

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Accidental Rifle
Hamas’ recent murderous attack on Israeli civilian targets wrecked any pretense of civility in the eyes of the world.

By contrast, I own a small piece of land in Mississippi. If American Indians returned to my farm and took it by force because their ancestors had lived on it two thousand years ago that would upset me. However, whatever moral capital Hamas and the Palestinian militants might have accrued evaporated the moment they decapitated Israeli infants sleeping in their cribs. That was simply beyond the pale. Hamas showed the world that they are now synonymous with ISIS, themselves the most bloodthirsty mob of psychopaths since Heydrich, Himmler, and Mengele. Anyone who defends Hamas is either delusional or something far worse.

The World Is Holding Its Breath for Israel

At this moment upwards of 150-200 Israelis and assorted foreigners are feared abducted. After a week’s worth of merciless aerial bombardment, the Israeli Defense Forces stand poised to launch a massive ground assault into Gaza with the twofold mission of exterminating the Hamas terrorists and retrieving the hostages. The world is holding its breath to see how it all unfolds.

Merkava tank in Israel
I shot this picture of a Merkava tank on the side of the road in Israel. The IDF is preparing a ground invasion of Gaza as I type these words.

Unlike conflicts of eras past, we get to watch this one in real-time. The terrorists live-streamed their murderous killing spree as it occurred. IDF troops with helmet cameras produce gritty combat footage that is uploaded as soon as the smoke clears. The rest of the world has a ringside seat to the carnage.

While our hearts break for the innocents on both sides, it is impossible for a true gun nerd to look away. The weapons, equipment, and tactics on display are morbidly fascinating. The Israelis have been fighting without serious respite since 1948. They are, by now, quite adept at the art of war. Their small arms reflect this storied military legacy.

Combat Iron

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
The Tavor X-95 is a state-of-the-art bullpup combat rifle.
Tavor rifle like those used in Israel
This was typical of the Tavor rifles I encountered in Israel. Note the conventional trigger guard as opposed to the full-length sort on our civilian versions. Also note the ubiquitous application of dummy cords.

One of the common long guns seen in our newsfeeds coming out of Southern Israel is the Tavor X-95 bullpup assault rifle. The GI-issue version sports a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of just 22.8 inches. The Tavor is a combat-proven design that is well-liked by the IDF troops who carry it. However, at 7.3 pounds stripped and empty, the rugged X-95 is undeniably portly.

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Accidental Rifle
Loosely based upon the Colt 653 CAR-15, the IDF Mekut’zar Carbine is unique to Israel. The barrel on this homebuilt example is slightly longer than the originals so as to comply with American firearms laws.

The other common rifle seen in our newsfeeds is the M-16 carbine in a bewildering array of forms. Some are standard M4’s with flattop upper receivers and 14.5-inch barrels. Others sport stubby little 11.5-inch tubes. The most fascinating of the lot is a curious home-grown Frankengun they call the Mekut’zar. Mekut’zrar appears to be an alternative form of the term. I fear I don’t speak Hebrew, so I am unable to elaborate. However, I’m told this is simply IDF slang for “CAR-15” or “Shorty.” These locally-produced weapons do not seem to be as common as was once the case, but I have still seen a few in the news in the past week.

Origin Story of the Israeli Carbine

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
There have been more than ten million Uzi submachine guns produced.

Israel prosecuted their miraculously successful Six Day War in 1967 armed predominantly with the Uzi submachine gun and FN FAL rifle. The Uzi is the most-produced pistol-caliber SMG in history. The FAL is a magnificent piece of iron, but it was designed for service in Europe. In the dusty spaces where the IDF served the FAL suffered reliability problems. The Israeli answer was the Galil assault rifle.

Israeli Galil - an expensive combat weapon
The Israeli Galil was a rugged though expensive combat weapon.

Introduced in 1972, the Galil was a hybrid combat rifle that incorporated the action of the Kalashnikov, the cartridge of the M-16, and the folding stock of the FAL. It was versatile, accurate enough, and as reliable as a tire iron. The Israelis even incorporated a bottle opener into the forearm. The first prototype Galils were built on Finnish Valmet receivers smuggled into the country illicitly.

While the Galil was a superb infantry weapon, it was both fairly heavy and expensive to manufacture. The Israelis needed a lightweight rifle that troops both on duty and off could carry with them while going about their daily routines. In the 1970’s that rifle was the American M-16.

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
The 1967 Six-Day War represented an astonishing example of Israeli military prowess.

The 1967 Six-Day War was a stunning victory for the Israelis. Their enemies call it “The Setback” to this day. However, the follow-up Yom Kippur War in 1973 was a very iffy thing for the beleaguered IDF. One of the reasons the Israelis prevailed was Operation Nickel Grass.

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
The Americans gifted untold thousands of M-16A1 rifles to the Israelis.

Nickel Grass was an emergency strategic airlift of American weapons, ammunition, and supplies from US stores to the IDF. Tanks and planes were shipped directly to the war zone, had Israeli insignia painted on, and then went straight into the fight. As part of this massive outpouring of military support, the Israelis received tens of thousands of American M-16 rifles.

Source Material

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Improvised Rifle
The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine has proven to be a popular and effective weapon in the hands of IDF troops. My semiautomatic clone was built up using an XM177E2 from Troy Industries as a foundation. The barrel is roughly three inches longer than that of the GI originals.

The M-16 was lighter, handier, and more accurate than the Galil. As they came from the US as military aid, these rifles were also free. This substantial pool of combat weapons served as a foundation for the Mekut’zar Carbine.

Soldier in Israel with the IDF Mekut'zar Carbine
I snapped this picture in Old Jerusalem. These guys used to be everywhere.

READ MORE: Operation Isotope

Back in the day, IDF troops who were home on leave often carried their weapons with them. Back when I was there in 2012, every decent crowd had a handful of young studs in civilian clothes packing Tavors, M-4’s, or Mekut’zar Carbines. Lamentably, that is apparently not as common today as was once the case. However, to fill the need for a lightweight yet powerful personal defense weapon, Israeli armorers went to work modifying those full-size M-16 rifles into something stubbier.

Transformations

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Accidental Rifle
The collapsible stocks on IDF Mekut’zar Carbines are frequently adorned with a little extra bling like this fancy sling mount.

 The first step was to exchange the fixed stocks of the M-16’s for collapsible versions. Some of those were standard American-made stocks as found on the M-4. Others were Israeli-specific variants. FAB Defense was the most common local source. However, the biggest transformation was in the barrels.

2 - Will - The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Israeli Improvised Rifle
To create the Mekut’zar Carbine, Israeli armorers pruned the 20-inch M-16A1 barrels shown here back to just behind the existing gas block. The front sight base was then relocated rearward to accommodate a carbine-length hand guard.

The Israelis took standard 20-inch M-16 barrels and cut them down at the gas port. They then turned the profile down to accept the front sight base, drilled a new gas port, and threaded the muzzle for a standard flash suppressor. Once reassembled with a carbine-length round handguard, the resulting lithe little rifle was handy, maneuverable, and cheap. When I was last there these improvised carbines were absolutely everywhere. They still seem to be issued today based upon the graphic imagery to have come out of the country in the aftermath of the recent Hamas terrorist attacks. Considering the IDF activated some 350,000 reservists this week I suspect lots of these vintage rifles will soon see service.

Customization

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Accidental Rifle
IDF slings include this nifty little pouch for ear plugs.

IDF small arms are often heavily customized. They all seem to sport electronic optics nowadays. I saw quite a few Trijicon ACOGs as well as a variety of domestic sights from Meprolight. Israeli slings are typically a bit wider than our own to help better distribute the weapon’s weight. The slings usually have a quick-release feature as well as a pouch to hold earplugs. There are additionally scads of nifty little Velcro and elastic additions all designed to make good guns better. 

The weapons I saw in public carried a loaded thirty-round magazine in the magwell and an orange chamber block under the bolt. IDF troops with whom I spoke explained that they were trained to rack the bolt, remove the chamber flag, and have their weapons in action very quickly. Most everything on the weapon, including the magazine, chamber block, and optical sight, was usually secured with a length of dummy cord.

The IDF Mekut’zar Carbine: The Extraordinary Accidental Rifle
Zahal.org is a one-stop shop for all of this cool IDF gun stuff.

Zahal.org is the source for genuine IDF weapons accessories. Before the recent war, you could order this gear over the Internet and it would show up over here in a week or two. I have no idea what the situation is today given recent sordid developments.

Ruminations

 Israel is indeed a nation forever at war. Both sides have legitimate grievances, and there are clearly no easy answers. Tragically, the foundations of this current conflict go back millennia and are, at this point, impossible to rectify. However, this recent horror is shocking even by ISIS standards.

The Israelis’ fight is with Hamas, not necessarily with the Palestinian people. However, given the egregious nature of this recent massacre, Hamas as an entity will likely have to die. Barring anything unexpected, I doubt the IDF is going to stop until Hamas is essentially exterminated. As we Americans sit comfortably at home watching the carnage on the news we should all be thankful that such tragedy is not occurring on our own shores. To keep the chaos at bay will no doubt require proper vigilance in the months and years to come. It remains to be seen if our political leaders have the stomach for that.

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  • Doris Wise December 4, 2023, 8:24 am

    Please provide even one single piece of evidence that (1) there ever was a Palestinian people, and (2) that these Palestinian people lived on this land known as Israel before the Jewish people.

  • Kane October 28, 2023, 7:45 pm

    “If Iraq came across the Jordan River, I would grab a rifle and get in the trench and fight and die,” -William Jefferson Clinton

    Iraq, Iran, just grab that rifle and martyr yourself for Israel

  • Frank vitili October 28, 2023, 7:01 am

    No, the “Palestinians” have no legit grievances. They are not a real nation, nor do they want to be. They merely want to murder every Jewish person on planet Earth, followed by every American, Christian, any other religion, and finally they want to murder any moderate Muslim. They have zero legitimate claim to the land. Israel never kicked them out, they excommunicated themselves initially and created the division simply because they hate Jewish people. There’s a reason why Egypt will not accept them into their land. The Palestinian people literally elected Hamas to rule them, Hamas are the ones who are bringing death to the Palestinian people and the Palestinian people directly voted for it. The Palestinian people cheered and danced in the street during September 11th. And they cheered and danced in the street on October 7th. They are as guilty as Hitler supporters in Nazi Germany.

  • Stephen B Smith October 27, 2023, 12:33 pm

    Interesting. I put together a Colt 653 carbine 16 years ago from parts. Seeing this article was a pleasant surprise. BTW – It has turned out to be a great and dependable little carbine.

  • Scooter October 27, 2023, 11:23 am

    Guys, they admitted on camera that they imploded building 7. That means it was rigged with the explosives in the weeks leading up to this fiasco. Explain this, anyone, please.

    • Kane October 30, 2023, 9:09 am

      I never believed the explosives rigged supports throughout the twin towers for several reason including the presence of security agent John Patrick O’Neill who was killed 9/11. Still, there is alot to be suspicious about including massive global investments that the bet airline industry would tumble, re-insurance companies would have huge compensation payments et cetera. I have at least one article here financial advisor Terri Savage was tracking the massive cash flow but then the story was dropped after a few days. Then there was the moving van of ME like crew chearing was the planes hit the towers on 9/11. And the story line WH lawyer Theodore Olson whose wife was killed on 9/11.

  • jerry October 27, 2023, 10:42 am

    I believe Hamas governs Gaza. I believe Hamas and Hezbollah answer to Iran. There will be no piece in the Middle East until Hamas and Hezbollah are eliminated and Iran is defeated. There are many ways to fight this fight and several definitions of what would be called “success,” but this is what the overall strategy should be. Stay safe and pray for peace.

  • Stan October 27, 2023, 9:16 am

    Unfortunately Israel got lax and let there guard down. I feel primarily due to politics. We here in the US have done the same thing. Due to the open board I feel out day is coming. Evil does not take a holiday. Especially when good capable men do nothing but turn there head and make excuses. Thank you once again for a great article.

  • ejharbet October 25, 2023, 1:32 am

    excellent story sir! we might disagree on the original ownership of the holy land,but we can agree this latest chapter of the eternal war is horrific and continue to pray for victory and peace

  • ccrider October 24, 2023, 2:12 pm

    The Galil also has a tripod with a wire cutter. It is a beast to haul around, but iconic. Kind of like hauling around an M1A1/M14, Versus AR15/M16 weight.

  • Karly October 24, 2023, 12:05 pm

    Aside from the early comments, it sickens me to see “privileged” students attending our nation’s ivy league universities marching on behalf of Hamas and the Palestinians. Is this what our young think of the nation? It does not bode well as people like this are already in the Congress.

  • Mike October 24, 2023, 6:25 am

    One diff between the Israeli situation and the author’s comparison of the Indians running him off his Mississippi land: the God of the Bible, established covenant (deed holders ought to recall this term), a covenant promise granting the land to these Jewish folks comprising the nation of Israel. A big difference since the author’s Mississippi homestead was most likely purchased or passed down from prior generation. I pray to God for the nation of Israel and its people.

  • Mario J Reyes October 23, 2023, 3:41 pm

    The Merkava is missing one of its tracks.

  • W October 23, 2023, 12:14 pm

    Did you get your historical information that said Israelis took land away from hamas or the palestinians from yassar arafat? That did not happen. That would make your analogy of your property taken from you by Indians an irrelevant point.

  • Austin October 23, 2023, 11:21 am

    Loosely based? It looks like it may as well be the Colt rifle. I don’t think loosely based is properly used. That doesn’t seem very improvised at all.

  • Complete October 23, 2023, 10:57 am

    Proper ganda

  • Frank October 23, 2023, 10:06 am

    Hello again, Will. It’s your neighbor just down Hwy. 7, one county to the south. I too, own a patch of trees and grass here in God’s Country.

    I very seldom have opportunity to disagree or challenge you on a point, but today I do. You write “I honestly do see both sides to a degree, at least in theory” and compare the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the near eradication of Native Americans (which also transpired in Central and South American) by the European Colonial powers, and America’s citizenry after Britain’s defeat. That’s an unrealistic comparison for a variety of reasons I won’t address here.

    What set, and sets apart Israel from any other nation in the world is Who founded it, and prescribed its boundaries. As you well know, God Himself (Jehovah, Yahweh) established the nation of Israel and set forth its boundaries. Those boundaries quite exceed what the world recognizes as Israel today. When God made His covenant with Abraham, He swore by Himself (as there is none greater). God’s promise wasn’t contingent on Abraham’s action or on the actions of any of his descendants through Isaac and Jacob. God reaffirms His promise several times throughout the Bible, and guarantees that Israel will possess the Promised Land in perpetuity. Even when the New Heaven and New Earth appear, there will be Hebrews living in the land first promised to Abraham by God Himself. Neither the so-called Palestinians nor any other people can lay claim to that real estate.

    Thank you for an otherwise excellent article, Will. I always enjoy reading your work, and look forward to seeing whatever else you pen.

    • Mike October 24, 2023, 6:29 am

      Amen and Amen! To God be all the Glory for Great Things He has done!

    • Kane October 30, 2023, 8:43 am

      “…What set, and sets apart Israel from any other nation in the world is Who founded it, and prescribed its boundaries. As you well know, God Himself (Jehovah, Yahweh) established the nation of Israel and set forth its boundaries. Those boundaries quite exceed what the world recognizes as Israel today…”

      Right, and no doubt that other worldly draftmanship would include but NOT limited too the post 1967 borders. And next maybe Frank will explain the Jewish Diapora, the hateful Talmudic spreading of Communism the destruction of all of the Christian Nations of Europe. The re-founding of Israel, after the destruction of every nation consumed by the diaspora, under UN Charter and Zionist terrorism on Israel’s greatest benefactor, Britain. No, the Islamic zealots have nothing on Frank.

      • Frank October 30, 2023, 11:03 am

        Gee, Kane… I was wondering how long it would be before you showed up and started whining about something. I wonder whom you have the most heartburn with. Is it Jehovah God, His chosen people, or just me? I assume it must be the latter, as others here posted comments very similar to mine, without triggering your fragile personality. I guess I should be flattered to cause you such angst… but I honestly don’t care. I base my comments regarding Israel on God’s Word. If you truly had any understanding of His promise to His people, you would know that the promise is based on GOD’S faithfulness… not His people’s. So even if the Jewish people were guilty of every imagined trespass in your antisemitic mind, it wouldn’t matter one iota. God will fulfill His promise. I said as much in my OP, but note you conveniently left that out when quoting me above. Like a good democrat be sure to leave out any material that doesn’t support your opinion! I believe there’s one “reply” available yet in this conversation, so go ahead and knock yourself out. Spill your guts of all the anti-Israel, anti-Jew, Godless hate rumbling around therein. Perhaps you can somehow conflate the current Israeli/Hamas war with Catholics in Northern Ireland again. I hope it gives you some relief.

        • Kane October 30, 2023, 10:52 pm

          Yeah those Catholics in the 6 counties of Ulster that never left town for almost 2000 years spreading hateful Talmudic lies about Christ. Too bad they could never get their homeland held in an unbreakable trust with God (or was it merely Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschild?) even though they never ran a sex slave trade in the “Holy Land” that you supposedly care so much about. What dif could that make to an OT zealot like you even though that was never and will never be the Covenant for a goy like you Frank. I’ve seen guys like you all my life and you are a phony Frank but have at it. The original Prod, Martin Luther held very idealic views of the members of the same tribe you worship and then he met a few in real life. Maybe we are the

          BTW, you toss around the term “antisemtic” an awful lot for a guy who has never even considered the plight of the semetic Palestinians that you dismiss at every turn. Since you call me “antisemetic,” anti-Israel,” “anti-Jew” and who knows what else, go ahead and list the top three reasons (except Jesus, Mary and Joseph) why I should be pro-semetic, pro-Israel and pro-Jew?

          Remember to keep in mind all those Russian and Ukrainian troops who liberated the concentration camps in Eastern Europe only to have their grandaughters serve as sex slaves in Tel Aviv for generations. Also, keep in mind the terrorist war the Zionists waged on the British Empire that overran the concetration camps in Eastern Europe. And keep in mind the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that a great patriot like youself will never care about. Oh yeah, you don’t care about the facts, just blind zealotry.

          • Frank October 31, 2023, 10:08 am

            … and there it is. You’re as predictable as Pavlov’s dog, Kane. I hope you feel “all better” now.

  • EasyEddie October 23, 2023, 9:38 am

    I find it most difficult to believe that Hamas has any ‘moral capital.

  • A Very Old Marine October 23, 2023, 9:35 am

    When – and if – I grow up, I wanna be Dr. Dabbs…and I’m 85 already! I urge every reader of this article to search for and read as many of Dr. Dabbs’ articles and stories as possible; he is a fantastic writer as well as apparently a truly great human. What a wonderful thing it would be for America to have him obtain a national office and have a significant role in creating, shaping, and enacting some laws which actually make sense! Thank you, Doctor!

  • Mike in a Truck October 23, 2023, 9:13 am

    Shocked at what Hamas did? Wait till see what happens here next summer. From voodoo sacrifice to outright cannibalism and everything in between. 15 million invaders will be activated and they dont think for a second they are “refugees”. That’s for stupid people t.v. news. They consider themselves Conquerors. Yes I’ve spoken with them, they are here for what you have: Your homes,your cars, your women all your property belongs to them. They actually believe this. What you gonna do about it?

  • No Thanks October 23, 2023, 7:29 am

    I really hope you don’t believe the fairy-tale we are told of 9/11?? Planes and jet fuel do NOT melt solid steel, etc, etc!!

    • Pete Faz October 23, 2023, 8:28 am

      Why not ?

    • Ford Prefect October 23, 2023, 9:14 am

      Perhaps not, but it can heat the steel enough to reduce the yield strength of the the steel below what is needed to support the weight.

    • A Proud American October 23, 2023, 9:42 am

      Where on earth were you when the terrorist atrocities were shown to the rest of us? Perhaps your beliefs are similar to those of the despicable scum who were responsible for those – and other – heinous deeds? I certainly hope not!

    • Mike October 23, 2023, 10:21 am

      What it did was weaken the brackets that supported the affected floors. Once one bracket got soft and bent the load was transferred to the adjacent brackets that caused them to fail and so on and so forth. this is called a cascade failure. When the weight of that first failing floor fell onto the floor below it had its weight added to that levels support brackets plus the inertial force from the velocity of the fall. combine this with the lack of lateral support from the level of the floor that fell ( no more cross beams keeping the outer structure form bowing outwards) and it was game over as the walls bowed out and the weight of all the levels above the affected level also came crashing down on the remaining structure with their inertia. It would have taken the hand of god to stop that building from coming down. You are correct that the fuel did not melt the steel. It was a cascade failure from the temperature softening of the steel.

      • Charles Surratt October 23, 2023, 11:48 am

        You’re saying that diesel fuel (jet fuel or kerosene which is no. 1 diesel fuel) heated the steel enough that the support brackets gave way and collapsed. All the pictures and videos I saw show the buildings coming straight down like a controlled demolition using explosives. If what you’re saying is true then why didn’t the building where the plane hit the corner about half way up topple over like a broken toothpick instead of coming straight down like a controlled demolition like I say using explosives. I’ve cut a few pieces of steel through the years and it seems to me that the thicker the steel the more acetylene and oxygen you will need to use in order to get it hot enough to bend (yield) or oxidize (cut) the steel. The reason I’m very skeptical of this scenario is all of the upright H-beam came down with the buildings in convenient approximate forty foot lengths. The pictures (I never actually saw the uprights with my own eyes) when the buildings were constructed show H-beams that appear to be at least four feet wide and at least one inch thick. Steel that thick will take a huge amount of acetylene and oxygen to cut or heat it enough to bend it. I’m sorry but I can’t believe diesel fuel burning and producing black smoke (more oxygen was needed for a more efficient hotter burn without any smoke) got everything hot enough to make it collapse. I would refer you to look at the pictures of the bombing of say Dresden, Germany during World War Two.

        • Jeff October 23, 2023, 12:50 pm

          Hey Charles. When you get a chance, try this little test (or rather, just imagine it, don’t actually try it): Pick up a spare 30ft long open-web steel bar joist from a steel erection company, or off craigslist after a job where it is no longer needed. Then, set it on bearings (CMU piers perhaps) and load the top of it with 150 lbs per linear foot. Then stand underneath it in the center and heat just a two foot long portion of the top and bottom chords with your torch and see what happens, well before any melting occurs.

        • Mike October 23, 2023, 2:41 pm

          Jet airliners use Jet fuel. Take a steel poker and place it it a wood fire. It will become red hot. Red hot metal bends and stretches much easier than metal that is not. Blacksmiths have know this since metals first came to use, that is why blacksmiths heat metal before they form it. It is weaker and easier to manipulate. Jet fuel and diesel burn much hotter than wood, more so when you also consider the other materiel’s from the building and aircraft are involved.. I did not say the uprights failed first. The brackets holding the cross beams did as they flexed and then a cascade failure occurred. the building almost fell straight down because the weight displacement of a building is vertical and the force and acceleration vectors from a rapid cascade follow the pull of gravity unless interrupted or re- directed by a force greater than the inertial force of the falling object. Clearly the impact and damage from the plane did not make it fall to the side because it didnt have the force necessary to make it fall to the side. It could have…but it didn’t. I am not going into Dresden because the cause, effect and structural aspects are different on many levels. I am not going to go into the numbers, Thermal production capacity of a loaded jet liner compared to any number of acetylene tanks, .physics or yield strengths for you mainly because it is pointless. Why? Because one of the earliest logic lessons I can remember is that it is useless to try to reason with the unreasonable. Because by definition of their unreasonable nature, all reasonable facts will be ignored by them unless they fit their particular agenda. So when I encounter them I walk by smiling and let them believe what they want.to…eg…Women can have a penis, There are 5g nanobots in our blood controlling us, Birds are not real, Qanon reptilian elite run the country, An elaborate conspiracy to rig the world trade center with explosives in coordination with a fake terrorist attack brought down the world trade center etc…etc… So I yield. You are correct and everything you say is right. I am so happy that you were born so that I may bask in your superior knowledge of physics, the properties of materiel’s and the world. I am now walking by smiling and nodding in agreement with you..

          • Charles Surratt October 24, 2023, 11:48 am

            I must’ve missed the part about Qanon, women, birds and nanobots but I would like to know why the Grenfell Tower in London was still standing after it was gutted by fire and please forgive me for being so ignorant in metallurgy, physics, mechanical engineering and so on and so forth.

    • Jeff October 23, 2023, 11:19 am

      As a structural engineer who has inspected several steel framed buildings that have failed from fire, along with having a knowledge of the twin-towers’ construction, and being a former steel erector/fabricator, any statement that the towers failed from something other than the airplane strikes is imbecilic.

      • No Thanks October 23, 2023, 12:24 pm

        Pound sand you imbecile. DOZENS of experts if not more have said NO way.

        • Jeff October 23, 2023, 12:41 pm

          I’ve probably already debunked all the so-called experts you would reference at least once before. I’m likely one of the most qualified to speak on the subject, other that the original EOR/company. It sure is fascinating how heated the 911 conspiracy theorists get. Here I am, someone you can learn from, but you would rather brush me aside for the myriad of click-bait ‘experts’. I’ve often considered writing a lengthy explanation on why the airplanes caused the structural collapse, but it has been done. On top of that, you conspiracy theorists are seemingly not rational enough to believe an airplane or a fire can cause a building to collapse in the first place, a very rational concept, details aside. So why bother? I won’t bother pounding the sand, you are doing it with your head enough for everyone.

          • Mech. Eng. dropout, but I passed undergrad Material Science October 23, 2023, 8:48 pm

            Jeff, you may have an engineering degree from an accredited university, detailed knowledge of material science, and years of industry experience, but I’ll have you know that No Thanks has spent a little time on the internet and done his own research. Man, I couldn’t even TYPE that with a straight face.

          • Jawjuh October 24, 2023, 10:43 am

            Jeff, it seems that, here, too, the use of logic, reason and knowledge fails to penetrate “knowledge” obtained from “a little time on the internet” which, as Abraham Lincoln noted, is always to be believed. You are, of course, exactly correct in your analysis of the mode of failure of the Twin Towers as my engineering degrees and common sense (blacksmiths!) concur. Insofar as conspiracy theorists go, Hudson said (in Aliens), “They’re everywhere, man. They’re all over the place.” Even here.

          • Jawjuh October 24, 2023, 7:17 pm

            Jeff, it seems that, here, too, the use of logic, reason and knowledge fails to penetrate “knowledge” obtained from “a little time on the internet” which, as Abraham Lincoln noted, is always to be believed. You are, of course, exactly correct in your analysis of the mode of failure of the Twin Towers as my engineering degrees and common sense (blacksmiths!) concur. Insofar as conspiracy theorists go, Hudson said (in Aliens), “They’re everywhere, man. They’re all over the place.” Even here.

          • Jawjuh October 24, 2023, 7:19 pm

            Argh. My comment didn’t show up when I reloaded the page. Oops.

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