When Americans and Russians Went to War

I once thought this guy was kind of cool. Now I realize he is a psychopathic nutjob. Kremlin.ru.

Estimated reading time: 12 minutes

I’ll just come out and say it—Vladimir Putin is a proper idiot.

I didn’t always feel this way. Back when President Obama was regularly photographed wearing those dorky bicycle helmets, Putin always seemed to be wrestling anacondas in outer space or some such. At the time, I longed for an American leader with perhaps a bit more serum testosterone. With the benefit of hindsight, I had no idea how good we had it. Nowadays, our Presidents tend to fall over when they go out for a bike ride and then stop to chat with reporters. 

What clinched it for me was Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Now, admittedly, I have a couple of buddies who are fighting over there, so I’m hardly impartial. However, it is tough to believe that, even this deep into the enlightened Information Age, nations can yet still go to war simply because a single charismatic lunatic wants them to.

What a Mess

Like all proper megalomaniacs, Vladimir Putin underestimated the opposition. The Ukrainians have not only successfully resisted the invasion of their sovereign nation, but as of this writing they have counterattacked deep into Russian territory. President of Ukraine photo.

Putin thought he would be toasting his own strategic brilliance in Kiev three days after his battalion tactical groups roared across the frontier back in February of 2022. Now, some two and one-half years later, Ukrainian forces are making good progress on their counter-invasion of Russia. Old Vlad did not see that coming. 

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Putin is rapidly running out of cards to play. He’s postured and blustered and threatened and screamed. However, along the way, he’s also burned through half a million Russian casualties. That’s a mind-boggling number. The butcher’s bill has become so astronomically high that he can no longer afford to quit. If he backs off even a little bit, some ambitious sycophant is going to defenestrate him (Toss him out of a window. That happens quite a lot over there). It seems he’s painted himself into a corner. He has no off-ramp.

The Desperate Rantings of a Desperate Despot

Putin likely signed his death warrant when he authorized the invasion of Ukraine. It simply remains to be seen how many innocent people he takes with him. DOD photo.

All he’s got left are nuclear threats. Maybe his antique nukes still actually work; maybe they don’t. Nobody is exactly waiting in line to test that out. However, it is the specious iconography of Russian heroes facing down Imperialist Yankee Americans that keeps his poor misguided people energized these days. 

These Russians are monsters. Tens of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainian civilians speak to this reality. The truly pathetic bit is that nobody over on our side of the pond cares. Most Americans couldn’t locate Ukraine on a map. Making the world safe for democracy was something our grandparents raised to an art form. By contrast, we’re fairly apathetic – we have our own problems. However, that was not always the case. 

If my opinion matters at all, I think the Lockheed P38 Lightning is the most beautiful airplane ever to take flight. However, we shouldn’t lose track of the fact that the actual point was still to blow the bejeebers out of both people and things. USAF photo.

Back in November of 1944, Russians and Americans were allied together to rid the world of what was arguably history’s greatest geopolitical evil. However, one gargantuan misunderstanding blossomed out of control and soon had Russian and American fighter planes blowing the living crap out of each other in the bright blue skies above Niš, Yugoslavia. As word of Russians killing Americans and vice versa would not have done much for the war effort back home, the details were mostly suppressed. Now some eight decades later, they nonetheless remain fascinating.

The Fog of War

This is the enormous tactical radio in a P38 Lightning. Nowadays you can get something hugely more capable in a package the size of a cigarette lighter. USAF photo.

War is chaos. It always has been. Back in the days before the microchip, communications were sketchy at best. If they had radios at all, those of most tactical aircraft were as big as steamer trunks and only communicated on a handful of discrete frequencies. Given that they ran on vacuum tubes, these devices often failed unexpectedly as well. Mix in the fact that Russians don’t speak English and Americans don’t speak Russian, and you have the recipe for tragedy. That tragedy struck on 7 November 1944.

Anyone who has ever done any flying appreciates that everything looks different from above. Target identification is reliably difficult from the air, particularly when you are screaming along at treetop level and 400 miles per hour in the cockpit of a Lockheed P38 Lightning.

The Situation

This is Brigadier General C.T. “Curly” Edwinson. His subordinates called him “Big Ed.” Inadvertently machine-gunning a Soviet armored column didn’t scupper his post-war Air Force career.

On 6 November, an American P38 group led by Colonel C.T. “Curly” Edwinson rendered superlative service supporting the Soviet 6th Guards Rifle Corps in its advance against German forces. The Russians had been so impressed they had requested that the same unit provide air support the following day. However, they neglected to inform the American chain of command that they had advanced some 100 km overnight. Now Russian and German units were intermixed. The 6th Guards Rifle Corps was on the move between Niš and Belgrade when it was spotted by Colonel Edwinson’s roving group of P38s.

This is the business end of a Lockheed P38 Lightning. All these weapons clustered together so tightly in the nose made it a devastating ground attack platform. USAF photo.

The War Plane

The big twin-engine P38 fighter represented the state-of-the-art in armed interceptors at the outset of WW2. By 1944, however, the Fork-Tailed Devil, as the Germans referred to it, was badly outclassed by more nimble single-engine types. As a result, Lightnings were often used for ground attack missions. The concentrated firepower of four M2 .50-caliber machineguns all clustered together alongside a single Hispano 20mm cannon in the nose was devastating against terrestrial targets like tanks, trains, and trucks.

Fighter pilots are, by their nature, aggressive. Back in 1944, that natural aggression killed a bunch of Russians and created a real-deal international incident. Public domain.

By this point in the war, the inexorable push by the Americans, British, and Canadians in the west was bumping up against their Soviet counterparts moving in from the east. As all tanks looked pretty much the same from above at such high speeds, it was a reasonable thing that the Lightning jocks might accidentally mistake the Russian T34s for German Panzerkampfwagen Mk IVs, Vs, and VIs. When the lead P38 formation stumbled upon the lumbering armored column, they did what all good fighter pilots do—they rolled hot, guns a ‘blazing.

The Tragedy

This is Soviet LTG Grigory Kotov. He was killed in a tragic friendly fire incident between US and Soviet forces during WW2. Public domain.

The results were predictable. The Lightnings blew the dog snot out of the Soviet column, killing 31 Russian soldiers and wounding a further 37. The Corps commander, LTG Grigory Petrovich Kotov, died in the attack. 

One of the reasons the Lightning was used for ground attack at this point in the war was that it had such a distinctive silhouette. Nothing else really looked quite like that from the ground. The Soviets did briefly mistake the attacking Lightnings for twin-boom German Fw-189 reconnaissance aircraft. However, as the Soviets did not care much for getting strafed, regardless of the nationality of the attacking machines, they got on the horn and scared up a few Russian Yak fighters.

The Yak-9 was one of the most advanced Soviet fighters of WW2. Public domain.

The Yak-9 looks a bit like a German Messerschmitt Bf109 in dim light. Once the Russian fighters showed up on station there resulted a mighty scrap. The American Lightning pilots shot down a Yak before somebody noticed the red stars on the wings and threw water on the party. Realizing what they had done, the Lightnings formed a Lufbery Circle over the city of Niš to think things through.

Circular Reasoning

The Lufbery Circle was named after one Raoul Lufbery, the leading fighter ace of the Lafayette Escadrille in WW1. While Lufbery did not originate the maneuver, it did inexplicably become associated with his name. Some have speculated that this was because he helped train quite a few incoming pilots in the technique during the war. 

A Lufbery Circle was simply a large horizontal circular formation wherein a group of fighters would follow one after another such that their weapons could cover the blind spots of the plane ahead of them. By orienting the formation above an enemy trench or ground target, the circle allowed repeated attacks without so much concern over aerial ambush while the attacking pilots were preoccupied. In this case, the American aviators just needed a few minutes to think.

War Gets You Going Too Fast Sometimes

By this point, the Russians were out for blood. Public domain.

The Yak pilots formed up low over the city and attacked the Lightnings from below. One P38 exploded in flames. The American pilots then began shooting back, red stars or not. Around that time, a further group of Soviet fighters showed up to join the fray. 

This aerial melee went on for another quarter hour. However, fifteen minutes is a literal lifetime in air combat. When passions finally abated, two Lightnings and three Yaks had augured in. One of the Yaks had fallen to Soviet antiaircraft fire.

The Rest of the Story

Colonel Edwinson didn’t bother to tell anybody what happened for the next three days. Once the details became apparent, all involved felt frankly awful. Edwinson was quietly reassigned stateside but went on to make General, so apparently that turned out OK. The United States formally apologized for the incident, but the Soviets never quite forgave us. They always have been a suspicious lot.

General George Patton was a war junkie, pure and simple. He was also one of the most effective general officers our country has ever produced. Public domain.

The feeling was mutual. When finally the war was winding to a close, no less a luminary than General George Patton lobbied quietly to turn captured German formations eastward and take the fight on to the Russians. He could sense that we would be fighting eventually and felt we might as well just go ahead and get it on.

Half a century later, the Cold War finally ended. US and Warsaw Pact forces never quite got around to slugging it out in the Fulda Gap. That desperate fight over Yugoslavia back in 1944 represents the only instance of truly unfettered combat between our two nations. In February of 2018, American special operators pretty much slaughtered a Russian Wagner unit that attacked their FOB in Syria, but those were mercenaries. You can find the details here.

In retrospect, we are all clearly better off that nobody seriously listened to Patton back then. He died soon thereafter under suspicious circumstances anyway. Even today, conspiracy theorists believe he was offed by the Russians.

Ruminations On War

Believe it or not, the Terminator was a fairly capable philosopher. I used to think this 1984 James Cameron sci-fi classic was pure fantasy. Given how AI is currently developing, it might just end up being a documentary. Fair use.

READ MORE: CPL Ben Roberts-Smith: Never Meet Your Heroes

The two biggest kids on the playground will always want to fight. Tragically, that’s who we are. To paraphrase the Terminator, it is in our nature to destroy ourselves. We can’t seem to help it.

Back in late 1944, the Germans were tooling up to launch Operation Watch on the Rhine, a little party we later came to refer to as the Battle of the Bulge. At the same time, a horrible misunderstanding unfolded in the skies above Yugoslavia. Good guys killed good guys, and the exchange left geopolitical scars that never quite healed. Now well into the 21st century, Vladimir Putin seems desperate to thump chests yet again. Let’s all just hope he falls out of some window someplace before he can get too carried away.

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  • retro bowl September 17, 2024, 10:13 pm

    it is very good and interesting

  • Harrel Lee Kramer September 11, 2024, 6:50 pm

    Bingo!! I love it you get it too!! A group of Nimrods here think we are against Ukraine which is just insane. Nor are we defending Putin. The US have been goading Russia for years (NATO) and some of these folks just can’t see past their blinders.

  • Mike in a Truck August 28, 2024, 5:08 pm

    Eisenhower, Montgomery, were just two of many that wanted nothing to do with a ground war in that meat grinder part of the world. But the numbnuts currently occupying D.C. Just know they know better. This is what happens when poly-si majors with no combat experience run things. Things go to shit and get worse from there. I remember the draft, I had a draft card but I enlisted. Americans take heed- do not send your sons and daughters to die for the Globalist Bankers. When that flag draped casket arrives with a placard on it “REMAINS NOT VIEWABLE” come back and tell us it was worth it.The Bankers are laughing all the way to the bank. Xin Loi

  • larry August 27, 2024, 3:12 pm

    Considering the above comments, I have to disagree. Saying that Ukraine deserved to be invaded because it instigated Putin is a bit like saying a woman deserved to be raped because she dressed provocatively. He’s a brutal dictator who imprisons or executes all his rivals. Ukraine is a sovereign country that should determine its own fate and allies.

    • Brian Miller September 3, 2024, 10:42 pm

      exactly.

    • Lee Kramer September 11, 2024, 6:36 pm

      Nobody is saying Ukraine deserved to be invaded! That’s nuts NATO has been pushing towards Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. All of that time while telling them don’t worry be happy NATO won’t allow the former soviet republic into NATO. While one after another the old soviet bloc countries have been scrambling to get in. The Nazis poured through Ukraine back in the day. Does anyone think Russia will stand by and watch that war scenario play out again? We have been using the Monroe Doctrine since he was President. Yet Russia isn’t allowed to defend its region!? That’s nuts too NATO is (wink, wink, nod, nod the US is NATO and NATO is the US, all of the other countries are just pikers) admit like it or not that’s just the reality. Viktor Fedorovych Yanukovych was trying to keep Ukraine neutral by staying out of NATO. So, he had to go at all costs. But of course, we know the CIA never interferes in the affairs of other nations. Especially not a country like Ukraine that NATO has been salivating over acquiring for years! As I said before we have been poking the Russian bear for decades now everyone is shocked that the bear is lashing back. I was in the army in the early seventies serving first as a field artillery crewman and worked my way up to M109 155mm gunner. To everyone who still thinks it’s okay to keep poking the bear, fine. Just so long as it’s you sons and grandsons who go to that meat grinder if we continue down this insane path. Because I sure as hell don’t want my 4 son’s and 5 grandsons anywhere near there. If you think our poking the bear and Ukraine has been paying for. I’m sure I’ll get more hate, but it’s okay if only one individual starts to see the light.

  • NJ August 27, 2024, 7:45 am

    Ooooooh, I just knew the Putin humjobbers would show up to defend him, and condemn Ukraine. Say, did they call them Nazis while simultaneously condemning Zelensky as a jew? I’m not going to read all the comments. Nice job, Doc.

    • Lee Kramer September 11, 2024, 6:38 pm

      Nobody here is defending Putin!! That’s just a damn red herring!

  • Tim August 27, 2024, 6:10 am

    I love my country and like most Americans I like to think we are the good guys. I keep asking myself would we tolerate Russia setting up a satellite government in Mexico? Absolutely not and with good reason. This little war is costing us billions. We are being bankrupted and growing weaker everyday.

  • Lee Kramer August 26, 2024, 3:13 pm

    I normally let my minor disagreement with you lay low. However, this time I had to say something to challenge you. Honestly with all due respect, I have to disagree with you about Russia. The US and its allies have been slowly encroaching on Russia since the collapse of the former Soviet Union, despite reassurances all of this time that NATO would not do what it has continued to do for the last 30 years. Grow, grow and grow some more! We effectively surrounded Russia. If you will investigate Putin has been threatening the present war for years now with every new encroachment. Every time one of the old soviet satellites joined NATO Russia rattled the proverbial saber and nobody paid any attention. Ukraine’s applying for NATO membership after the duly elect leader ousted for Zalinsky to bring in NATO, that was the last straw. Now everyone is surprised that they finally struck back! Duh! NATOs slow encroachment instigated this mess, and the US and NATO has a lot of innocent Russian and Ukrainian blood on its hand. Bad mouthing Putin (Who I have never liked or trusted) doesn’t change any of this. AS usual my country right or wrong doesn’t pass the smell test. Of course, the media doesn’t report any of this. This war Russia’s Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse. For 30 years we have just kept poking the Russian bear and now we’re surprised the bear fought back. Has anyone bothered to check Putin’s popularity among the Russian people? Yes, I had to take exception with your opening in the article. the rest as usual I found interesting as always!

    • Cold War Vet August 26, 2024, 9:53 pm

      Lee, you are so spot on with your analysis on this attack by Russia, it was provoked by Ukraine and NATO, they are only to blame!

    • Pop LeCorque August 27, 2024, 10:37 am

      Could not agree more wholeheartedly. If you peel back the onion on this, who stands to gain? The Ukrainian oligarchs are getting richer on US taxpayer dollars. In one previous column DR Dabbs obfuscated the Ukrainian aid situation by pointing out that we may be giving them some stockpiled US supplies but I have a hard time imagining we can really afford to do that given the debacle with the Afghan “withdrawal”. Unfortunately, when Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex social media didn’t exist so now that speech is relegated to dusty textbooks. By the way, if anyone is interested enough to look, they will find that in the years following WW one the European powers steadily abused and encroached on Germany too. Not trying to say hitler was not a bad guy, just saying there is always more to the story because the media controls the story they want you to see, just like painting Putin as the devil.

    • Brian Miller September 3, 2024, 10:50 pm

      Your analysis is pretty myopic. You have a HUGE linchpin assumption that Putin would have let Ukraine remain a sovereign independent country if only NATO had not expanded. Well, first, NATO is an IGO made up of sovereign governments; an external power does not get to dictate its membership. 2nd, the west spent decades and billions of dollars trying to coax/cajole Russia into being a responsible power. It was an epic fail because the majority of Russian leaders/voters do not see themselves as a responsible power in the Western view. They see themselves as the regional hegemon and the last defender of Christianity, so they’d never willingly allow an independent former Soviet republic to remain truly independent. Because your assumption is flawed, and it must be true for your assessment to be valid, your whole analysis is fracked. Not to mention, it completely buys into Russia’s “besieged fortress” propaganda which has nothing to do with reality. You want to blame someone for Ukraine? Blame Putin and the stupid Russian voters that have kept him in power in an increasingly authoritarian pseudo-dictatorship.

      • Lee Kramer September 11, 2024, 5:54 pm

        The only conclusion you and I can agree on is the statementyou made is, “They see themselves as the regional hegemon and the last defenderof Christianity.” I wanted a few days to think about your reply beforeresponding. I don’t wish to make slights toward you as you did toward me. So atfirst I thought you were just using hyperbole. After that I concluded it was worse,hubris. Then at last if finally hit me, you’re just a troll! So I blew you off as just a ‘woke crack-pot.’

        • Brian Miller September 14, 2024, 5:49 pm

          Lee, you ignorant slut!
          Not trolling at all nor am I a woke crackpot. I’m just pointing out how flawed your logic is, having looked at this issue quite closely professionally and academically. You seem very defensive on someone critiquing your analysis, but if you didn’t want this you should never have posted.

          As it stands, you have no evidence for your assumption that Putin would NOT have sought to control Ukraine or other former Soviet republics like Georgia if, in your words, NATO didn’t “encroach” on Ukraine. NATO expansion with Russia as a member of the Partnership for Peace was NOT an encroachment. Hell, we had Russians in the Pentagon trying to bring them into the club and gave Russia billions of dollars in aid in the 1990s.

          The simple fact is, psychologically the Russian people and leadership have always seen themselves as under siege from external powers, and their desire for a strong-state results in inevitable threats to periphery states. The historical back-and-forth between strong and weak central states in Russia have always been accompanied by external expansion/imperialism during strong state periods…the USSR post-45 were strong state/expansionistic (the latter part of which were formative for Putin), followed by the weak state years of Yeltsin, with Putin – brought in just to protect the Yeltsin Family (real family and hangers on) from corruption investigations but very soon exceeding that remit – restoring the strong state and expansionism. Remember, this is a guy who thinks the fall of the USSR was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century, a worse event than WWII. So, it’s just illogical/ignorant to think he would not have sought to re-expand Russia’s territory/control if only the mean old NATO hadn’t offered membership to other countries.

          I’d really recommend you don’t buy into Russia’s propaganda and gain some knowledge to understand this: Poe’s “The Russian Moment in World History” is a good primer, Tsygankov’s “The Strong State in Russia” discusses the cyclical strong/weak/strong state evolutions. Additionally, PBS’ phenomenal Frontline series of documentaries on Putin, based on primary-source interviews with folks who know him closely, which should be required watching for anyone seeking to understand his psychology.

          • Lee Kramer September 26, 2024, 6:31 pm

            Let’s see now, you have called me “myopic”, with sporting “a HUGE linchpin ASSUMPTION”, and I’m an “Ignorant Slut!” with “NO EVIDENCE for your assumption that Putin would NOT have sought to control Ukraine”. “You seem very DEFENSIVE on someone critiquing your analysis”. Well I’m not ‘myopic’, ‘assumptive’, ‘lacking in evidence’, and I’m certainly not ‘ignorant’ or a ‘SLUT’! And I haven’t been defensive.

            The fact is I’m sure I made my case quite well. That makes all of your projecting on me really all about you! I’m not the only one here on this thread that gets it and they have stated as much. You however, have not. You’ve used insults, a straw man fallacy, hyperbole, and your own hubris. You state you have studied this issue personally and professionally. If so I’d have to guess you are probably a high school or college history teacher, especially judging by all of the vitriol aimed at me and others. Then there is your offended pious intellectual stance. I have more than once pissed off ignorant academics using the same kind of arguments as you have before. As I said I’m not defensive, I don’t see any need to be.

            I devour history, economics, theology, political science and philosophy. I’m a rank amateur in all but one of these subjects. Yet it lends itself to a proper understanding of the others. I believe they are all fundamentally important, essential and matter beyond any explanation I can give. Yet I’m constantly surprised to learn a lot of academics (some I admire when they get it right) are just plain in a word, stupid. Sure they are often full of themselves, but still dumb as a box of rocks.

            As for your recommendations first I’m always more interested in the authors, and I found some red flags (pardon the pun) that really disqualify their capacity for honest historical analysis, especially Marshall T. Poe. Then you recommended PBS’ Frontline!! Really! The propaganda arm of all things on the left!?

            It is the left that is pushing all of the things you claim to stand for. (That is a big reason I still think you are a troll) If your wrong and I firmly believe you are. However, if push comes to shove and your conclusions are correct, great! But, just as long as it’s your children and not mine who go to the evitable meat grinder that will follow. I sure as hell don’t want my 4 sons and 6 grandsons in your damn WWIII scenario. Mark my words because that is where this is going if you and those like you get your way.

            This enlightening lecture will surely make you howl if you have the stomach to watch it:

            John J. Mearsheimer, the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor in Political Science and Co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago, assesses the causes of the present Ukraine crisis, (2014) the best way to end it, and its consequences for all of the main actors. A key assumption is that in order to come up with the optimum plan for ending the crisis, it is essential to know what caused the crisis. Regarding the all-important question of causes, the key issue is whether Russia or the West bears primary responsibility.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4&ab_channel=TheUniversityofChicago

        • Brian Miller September 28, 2024, 2:25 pm

          Meersheimer’s a fear-mongering idiot who’s been discredited repeatedly in the academic/national security community; a non-emotional cogent critique of his assessment, by one of his colleagues/friends, can be found here https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/whats-missing-mearsheimers-analysis-ukraine-war.

          At this point I really think you’re a Russian plant, as you didn’t recognize the obvious reference to the Point/Counterpoint skit from classic SNL (“Jane, you ignorant slut”). I’d ask you who won the ’68 World Series but you’d probably just Yandex’ it to get the answer. As for most of the folks on this thread, many often don’t have the first clue about international relations, Russian history/culture, etc. More nekulturny than obrazovannyy. So, not really a good pool to say my statements are invalid.

          As far as me, I’m just a guy who believes in the 2A. When Ammoland, GunsAmerica, etc stick to 2A issues I find the articles generally informative, though the comment section is usually idiotic. When the articles get outside of 2A, e.g. like this one delving into IR and GPC issues, well, the quality becomes significantly less and the crazies more. If you don’t like critiques of your opinions, I’d suggest you don’t post them….but like I said, I actually think you’re a plant, so with all due respect, yob tvoyu mat, tovarisch.

  • John Boyle August 26, 2024, 2:07 pm

    I’m not going to war on behalf of the US government or its allies, whatever the pretext.

  • Jeff Kyle August 26, 2024, 11:47 am

    Another great history lesson Doc! As always, you have provided a wealth of knowledge with a bit of humor. Thank you and looking forward to you future endeavors!

  • Ellie Hugh Thomas August 26, 2024, 9:54 am

    Americans and Russians have fought before the incident in WWII. At the end of WWI, the US sent 5000 troops to aid the White Russians against the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution. Unfortunately, they were not successful, resulting in millions of Russians “purged” by Lenin and Stalin.

  • AK August 26, 2024, 8:26 am

    The US also intervened in the Russian Civil War, 1918-1919, on the side of the Allies against the Bolsheviks. Fought a number of pitched battles with the Bolshies in miserably undersupplied logistic conditions, issued with Russian rifles and temps as low as -50 Fahrenheit.

    109 killed, 305 wounded; thirty-five died of wounds; eighty-one death from disease (ninety percent of which were caused by influenza); thirty missing in action; nineteen dead from accidents/other causes; and four were prisoners of war, with total casualties numbering 583. Obviously, we didn’t win.
    Interesting that the Allied invasion took place at Archangel, where US-Murmansk convoys kept the same Bolshies supplied and in the war against the Axis. Just +20 years later….

  • Joseph Schroepfer August 26, 2024, 8:06 am

    Sorry, the blood soaked monsters in Washington DC started the Ukrainian civil war in 2014 by over throwing the democratically elected government and installing a US puppet regime (see Asst Sec of State Victoria Nuland leaked phone call). Sorry, if I was the leader of Russia I probably would have invaded Ukraine sooner. There is no way I would tolerate a hostile alliance and hostile nuclear weapons in a country that projects deep into my territory. The same as the fact that the US would not tolerate Chinese’s alliance or nuclear weapons in Cuba or Mexico. And for the record, democracy is the worst form of government ever invented. As a republic we should not be supporting democracies. Granted, Ukraine is a corrupt dictatorships (which usually follow democracies) so the point is a bit moot.

    • Brian Miller September 3, 2024, 10:51 pm

      way to buy into the Russian propaganda.

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