Prepping 101: Cheap Kerosene Pressure Stoves with Diesel

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Butterfly 2412 Pressure Stove $75
Pressure Stoves from India $40-$60
(This seller just put up a special $40 buy it now on the pink stove after I emailed him)

My whole paradigm on cooking has changed since starting this column. I was like most Americans. When it comes to off the grid cooking, propane was the way to go. 2nd to that was white gas, otherwise known as Coleman Fuel. What I have come to understand is that from a survival perspective, both of those fuels will be extremely rare. I have discovered wood burning “Rocket Stoves” for prior articles, and my latest fascination is with stoves like you’ll see this week that were made for kerosene. As I have explained in past weeks, these stoves burn regular gaspump diesel just as clean as kerosene, which is getting harder and harder to find, especially at a reasonable price. Diesel has to meet new EPA standards for sulfur emissions, and that has made it almost indistinguishable from kerosene. Diesel does not produce flammable fumes, and if you toss a match into a puddle of diesel, the match will go out. If you are storing fuel for the collapse, diesel is your best option, but you do need stoves for cooking and heaters for heating that are specifically designed for kerosene to burn it in a useful way.

In my last diesel article I showed you what I call “mop wick” diesel stoves. This week we’ll review a couple pressurized stoves. One of them comes from the same company with the wick stoves, St. Paul Mercantile. And I have to tell you, I thought that when I wrote this article, I would have some lower cost options to compare to that stove, but they have all dried up. I’ve actually noticed that several of the killer deals I shared with my regular readers for my Black Friday article have been drying up, and I think that’s great that some of you got them. This Butterfly pressure stove is still a great buy at $75, and I did find you at least one slightly cheaper option, albeit at a much more sketchy quality. Of course we have to discuss the larger question, do I even want a pressure stove?

The way I see it, BTUs are BTUs. According to this government fuels chart, one gallon of diesel has almost 129,000 BTUs per gallon, which is about 10,000 BTUs above gasoline. Propane is only 84,500 BTUs per gallon, and at 60 degrees, propane weighs just over 4 lbs. per gallon. So a 20 lb. propane tank that costs roughly $20 to fill has less than 5 gallons of propane, at over 40,000 less BTUs per gallon than diesel.

That 129,000 BTUs per gallon of diesel can be used how you wish, to heat your water, heat your living quarters, heat your bathwater, and the size of your stove will determine just how many of those BTUs will burn at what speed. I like the wick stoves because they are low BTUs, and I’m not in a hurry. I don’t want to boil my dinner when warm is just fine, and warm saves me some fuel.

But when you need the BTUs, for cooking a large pot for a group of people, and for canning food and distilling alcohol, the wick stoves are somewhat frustrating, even the big ones I have to admit. You are going to need to use the BTUs to get the job done, so you might as well not wait around all day waiting for your canner to come up to pressure.

I’m sure there is more waste with a higher flame. Well, I’m not sure actually. I have no idea actually, but it would make sense that heat would bleed off the sides and get wasted. That is why the Rocket Stove I’ve used comes with a pot skirt, to hold that heat in. But it isn’t big enough for my canner anyway.

The big advantage to these pressure stoves I think is also that they don’t require a wick to produce heat. If you watch the video, you’ll see that I light these stoves with a wick in the spirit cup, using diesel, instead of with alcohol as you are supposed to, but for running the stove you don’t need anything besides a nipple pick to periodically clean out the carbon. I do plan to experiment with my wick stoves using mop heads and even t-shirt cuttings, but the fact that I’ve seen my wicks burning away as I use the stoves tells me that no matter what, anything with a wick is definitely going to run out of wick at some point. I think waaaay too much about this stuff I know, but it’s a point I feel I should make.

Burning these stoves you can see why propane and white gas have become so popular. They are clean and neat, while kerosene/diesel are dirty and smelly. Though diesel and kerosene stoves may look like they work the same as a white gas Coleman stove, they don’t work exactly the same way. Coleman fuel is essentially distilled gasoline, and it has the same ignition temperature as gasoline. The distillation apparently makes the white gas produce less fumes, but mostly it just takes out the non-volatiles that tend to clog Coleman burners. You can run gasoline in Coleman stoves and lanters, even the ones that don’t say “Duel Fuel,” but you have to clean the generators periodically. I’ll do an article on this at some point, if we make it that far.

Kerosene, diesel, jet fuel and home heating oil are all pretty much the same thing, and they don’t ignite at room temperature. As I said, you can throw a lit match into a puddle of any of them, and the match will go out. In a stove, that means that you can’t just pump the pump and hold a match to the burner and expect it to light. All it will do is make a mess. You have to preheat the fuel by burning some fuel below the burner in what is called a “spirit cup.” I generally use a wick with diesel instead of the suggested denatured alcohol, and they seem to not have any advantage over each other. In my experience the mess kind of happens regardless, because these burners are stubborn.

You’ll see in the video that it takes me generally two to three tries before I can get the diesel to aerosolize. Even when the diesel is heated enough to reach surface temperature ignition without the wick, under pressure the burner still shoots a stream of fuel, instead of a cloud of fuel. This makes for a mess, and a quasi-inferno.

That is why I strongly suggest that you watch this video from beginning to end. It is like 46 minutes, and it has its yawn moments, but at least watch me light the Butterfly with the diesel and wick. You’ll see that it is vital to control the stove with the pressure release valve.

Fill the stove of course. I use a liquid transfer pump I got at Tractor Supply for $7.

  1. Put a piece of wick, or denatured alcohol into the spirit cup.
  2. If you are using a wick, close the pressure valve.
  3. If you are using a wick, pump some fuel to fill the spirit cup.
  4. If you are using a wick, open the valve.
  5. Light the wick or alcohol in the spirit cup.
  6. Wait while the burner heats.
  7. Close the valve.
  8. Pump really fast.
  9. Watch the nipple to see if it is a stream of fuel or a cloud of fuel.
  10. If it is a stream, open the valve quickly. Really quickly.
  11. Hopefully you opened it quick enough to keep fuel from spilling out of the spirit cup onto the stove.
  12. Probably you didn’t, so the whole thing looks like an inferno.
  13. Just chill and wait for it to burn down some, so that the stove itself is not on fire and just the spirit cup is burning.
  14. Try closing the valve and pumping again. There is a good chance you’ll hear the telltale hiss of the aerosolization of the diesel.
  15. Use your nipple pick to remove the wick, and either blow it or stomp it out quickly. This will keep your wick from charring so it will be reusable indefinately.
  16. If you got fuel on the surface below the stove, and you are going to get in trouble for it, wipe it up quickly.
  17. Wash the carbon off of your hands at the very least.
  18. Do not put your diesel smelling clothes or shoes in the washing machine.
  19. Do not go near a female until you no longer smell like diesel. Do not touch pets or children until same.

After lighting these stoves a dozen times or more, all I can do is share my experience. They are an absolute mess, and a bit scary, but you know what, these days you can get diesel at the pump for under $2 per gallon, and if you look into it, you’ll find that you can get “off-road” diesel delivered into IBC Totes legally, at 275 gallons each, for about $1.50 a gallon. If you live in the Northeast, try to find a home heating oil company that doesn’t have a bootlicking metal tank restriction and you can probably get it cheaper than that. The highest BTUs for gallon, stored in any HDPE plastic container, at prices not seen since the 1970s. Beat that.

The Different Burner Sizes

I had a revelation at the end of making these videos that all of these pressure burners are not the same. I started the tests of pressure stoves with a few stoves I didn’t include in the article, because as I said, they are no longer available. Those stoves ran my canner at well over 17 lbs. of pressure, and they had so many BTUs that it actually ran the canner dry. The noise of the stove running was so loud you couldn’t hear yourself think.

The Butterfly stove is a much smaller burner, and in comparing it to the other burners I had on hand, I found that it is a #1 burner. At the end of the video I show you a #2 burner, from India, and it is much louder and a much bigger flame. St. Paul Mercantile advertises the Butterfly at 9,000 BTUs, and I think it is more than that in practice, but it was only able to get my canner up to 13 lbs. at sea level. So if you are at at altitude, and you want to be able to can meat, I would opt for a #2 burner. Likewise if you want to run a 20 gallon alcohol still. The Butterfly is a beast, but it isn’t on the level that I’ve experienced with the larger burner. At some point I’ll hopefully show you guys a stove I got that is the king of the jungle when it comes to BTUs. It was too much to cover for this article, and overkill for almost all situations.

What About Primus?

The Butterfly stove is a copy of an old Optimus stove that was also made under the Primus name. I think I said they were German in the video, but the company itself was Swedish. These days the brand name of kerosene pressure stoves is still Primus, but the stove you’ll find under that name is a flimsy backpacking stove with separate fuel bottle for over $150. I did order a Chinese off-brand copy, but haven’t tested it yet. The flexible fuel line and lots of moving parts tell me that it is better left to backpacking and not to survival.

The stoves that are advertised on Ebay as Primus, with Russian characters and transliterations are from Russia, and in my experience, they don’t work. I ordered two of them, the Touristic Camp Stove Motor Sich PT-3 and PT-2. In theory, these stoves should be much better than the Butterfly, because you can adjust the flame strength, whereas on the Butterfly, and all of the Indian stoves, you can not. But they stoves just don’t work, even though I duplicated exactly the things that Youtubers from Russia do with the very same stoves. I tried wick lighting. I tried alcohol lighting (just today). The best I get is like a second of gas sound, then a stream, that just makes a big inferno. I’m going to make a separate video of my failures with them.

Butterfly vs. India

As I write this the guy from India selling the pink and green stoves direct has allowed his multi-ads to expire, so there are only a few left. Give it a few days and I’m sure they’ll be back. At first glance it would appear that the stoves from India are a better buy. One of them looks just like the Butterfly in fact. And one of the luxuries that I have in writing this column, which I have noted many times in the comments, is that we don’t sell anything here at GunsAmerica, and for this column, we don’t even have any advertisers in this space. I would love to tell you that the stoves from India, at $50-$60 shipped, are a better investment than the Butterfly at $75 plus shipping, but this is not the case.

The pink stove from India came with two burners, apparently because the stock burner doesn’t work well. I don’t know if it is because the tubes are steel instead of brass, but it just didn’t throw a steady blue flame. You’ll see on the video that it kept puffing. I said in the video that this could have been because it wasn’t tightened down all the way, but I don’t think so. The replacement burner worked perfectly, so I assume the seller knew that the steel burner was junk. The only problem is, the Ebay ad doesn’t reflect this. There is no mention that an extra burner will be shipped with the stove.

At the very least, these stoves from India are rough around the edges. Does it matter? I don’t know. They clearly work fine. Twenty bucks isn’t going to make a big difference in your prepping budget one way or the other, so take a look at the video and see which you would prefer. There are some other copies on Ebay that seem to be yet another manufacturer of the same stove design, for about the same price. I think you should have a Duel Fuel Coleman stove to burn gasoline, and one of these stoves to burn diesel. There are going to parking lots full of cars and trucks once this all burns down, and gridlocked bumper to bumper, the only use for the fuel in them will be your stoves.

{ 42 comments… add one }
  • Thomas Williams May 18, 2016, 2:19 pm

    You can also use 90ish% rubbing alcohol in the spirit cup, or 70% if you use a paper or book match (as you were) and leave it in to act as a wick. I discovered this when I picked up a Coleman kerosene lantern without the squeeze bottle. It occurred to me recently that the same trick should work for lighting kerosene in a spirit cup, and I did an experiment in a used tea light candle tin and it succeeded. If the match goes out when you put it in the kerosene, relight the old match first and put it back in before putting the fresh match in.

  • John March 1, 2016, 7:55 pm

    Paul,

    Am I wasting my money by ordering a Butterfly 22-Wick 14K BTU stove? I was going to order one after your last article about them but now I’m unsure. I’m sure each one has there positives.

    Thanks!

    • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 12:31 pm

      Wasting your money? No way! I just ordered extra wicks for mine this week actually. At like $3 per set, I think it outweighs the fact that the wicks are consumables. I am not a huge fan of having to go back and pump to begin with, but when I write these articles I feel that I should advocate for why this particular thing could be thought of as superior. If you were a corn farmer and you knew that a post collapse source of barter was moonshine, I would get a dozen of the #2 burner pressure stoves to run the still. For daily cooking, the 16 wick is fine even. That is their biggest seller. I’m going to review the double flat wick stove too soon. I have used my Boss and it is a real pleasure, so I assume the new Butterfly copy will also be nice. For daily cooking you don’t need all of those BTUs.

  • John Squires March 1, 2016, 6:49 pm

    I have a few comments to add to Paul’s.
    The biggest reason for using denatured alcohol in the spirit cup to start a pressure stove is that it burns hot and does not produce smoke or soot. In an emergency situation, I would certainly use the kerosene soaked in a cotton ball or cotton wick to preheat, but the stove starts much cleaner using denatured alcohol. Outside the USA, denatured alcohol is called Methylated Spirits, hence the name “spirit cup” for the little cup that holds the pre-heating fuel.

    The Butterfly stove uses an all-brass burner, as does the Indian version Paul showed. These last forever, though the jets need to be replaced every couple years. I include an extra jet, as well as the special jet tool, with each stove purchased. The reason the square Indian stove includes an extra burner is because those burners are soft steel and generally need to be replaced every year or two.

    All pressure stoves should be rinsed with clean fuel before first use, in order to remove dust and particles from the manufacturing process. Put in about a half cup of fuel, shake it a lot, then empty. The flame surging Paul experienced on the steel stove was probably due to a rust particle from the steel tank blocking the inside of the jet. Using the jet cleaner tool (pricker) would probably clear the obstruction. Removing the jet, pumping some fuel through, then reinstalling the jet would also fix the problem.

    The Butterfly stove’s tank can be completely sealed for packing into a backpack. There is a cap that screws onto the tank, where the burner is installed. Remove the cap, install the burner, then the cap screws onto the end of the pump to give you a better handle for the pump, and so you don’t lose the cap. Paul did not install the cap.

  • Brian Ross February 29, 2016, 4:04 pm

    Another efficient way to burn fuel is an old style blowtorch. There is a learning curve; and you’ll likely have to learn refurbishing of the things. Parts for major brands can still be found. A buddy of mine has a small blacksmith forge powered by a gasoline torch. It will weld, and is much more portable than its propane siblings.

  • rinaldo February 29, 2016, 3:51 pm

    Alcohol would seem to be a most necessary item post WTSHTF. It can be used medicinally, for fuel, and for recreational purposes. Do you recommend a stove or heater that can run on alcohol? Additionally, should alcohol become a scarcity, we’ll need info on the construction of a still and the methods of producing our own alcohol. Many of us have watched the ‘Moonshiners’ on TV and have a basic understanding of the process. Thanks for your good works … rj

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 4:38 pm

      You can get stills on Ebay, but you would need to store sugar now as well. I have an article coming up soon on the basics. It is fairly simple, but it takes a lot of BTUs. There are Youtube videos on how to make tin can alcohol stoves that work just fine. It isn’t going to be a homestead cooking option really, but it works.

      • Rinaldo March 1, 2016, 10:04 am

        The TV shows, and other articles too, say to throw away the first 100ml or so of ‘product’ as it is primarily ethanol which isn’t for human consumption. Can this ethanol be used for fuel and/or medical applications? As preppers, we’ll not want to throw anything away that might have an alternative use.

        There are all kinds of ‘how to’ videos on youtube, include one step-by-step for the creation of nitroglycerin. Just because it is on youtube doesn’t mean that it is accurate or safe to follow their instructions. I’d much rather attempt something on there that you’ve tried and given your stamp of approval.

        We’ll be looking forward to your future article on the care and feeding of stills … especially the wood fire versions.
        Thanks again …
        Rinaldo

        • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 12:43 pm

          It’s true that a lot of Youtube videos are good, but beware of editing. I try to not stop and start so people can see that I’m not gaming the results, and of course I show you intentionally when my first try fails. You can find all kinds of things on Youtube that were gamed and that don’t work.

          As for the ethanol, yes, it is true. The ethanol boils at a lower temp, so it comes through first, but not in significant quantity to make much of a difference in your ability to cook.

          I’ve not so far actually run one of my stills lol. I get all of this crap and test it when I have time. Wood fired I personally would only try with a rocket stove, and I will.

  • fly4vino February 29, 2016, 2:39 pm

    White gas is really unleaded gasoline (without the oxygenates etc) and Coleman notes that unleaded can be used in both stoves and lanterns.

    There are other additives in pump gas which are not great for the stove or lamp but will work. I would also use and have spare fuel stabilizer on hand plus mantles and cleaning equipment. Coleman recommends (and I fully agree) that their fuel is preferable and also regardless of the fuel used the tank should be drained when not being used.

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 4:39 pm

      Geez thanks for the tip that is already in the article because you didn’t read it. Why do we always attract fool blowhards?

  • TheMatrix February 29, 2016, 2:10 pm

    It looks like your Butterfly leaks at the pump when operating it. Wiped up several times.

  • John Wright February 29, 2016, 11:58 am

    I have been using a multi fuel stove with a burner of that type seen in your video sense 1969. I have long been using a product called FIRE PASTE made by COGHLAN as a PRIMOR. Fire Paste comes in a large tube about like a big tube of tooth paste. it comes out looking like bearing grease. It lights easily with no wick burns very clean and leaves no, ash, no spills, no out of control priming flame and costs less than a quart of alcohol. Its available at many outdoor supply stores. It’s also grate for starting camp fires. and NO I DO NOT WORK FOR OR GET A COMISSION FROM COGHLAN CO. LOL

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 12:10 pm

      Note these stoves are not multi-fuel. They are not made for gasoline or white gas and will run too hot, dangerously so.

    • hilojohn February 29, 2016, 11:27 pm

      John, can you please send me a link to where I can order Primor from. I have been looking and can not locate any info on it or where to get it.

      Thanks.

      • Keith March 1, 2016, 4:21 pm

        hilojohn, I don’t think he meant the product is Primor, I think he meant the product is a primer.
        Look up Fire Paste at http://www.coghlans.com/products/fire-paste-8607
        It is an alternative to the other fuels you would use in the spirit cup.

        • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 12:38 pm

          I also use WetFire which you can get at Walmart, and even military firestarters that I showed in my firestarting article. But as with everything else, unless it is dead calm, or indoors, your first squirt will be a stream.

  • Matt Peters February 29, 2016, 11:38 am

    Have you covered fuel storage? The (heating) fuel oil that sat in a tank n my mother’s basement for 50 years (after a natural gas conversion of the boiler) appeared to be in good condition when we drained it for removal of the tank. My understanding is diesel has a relatively short storage life while kerosene and fuel oil store indefinitely.

    • Dave Hicks February 29, 2016, 2:10 pm

      live in the woods and fire would is a natural way to cook. Couple of cast iron pans pile of wood and I’m set.Oh that fresh deer hanging over there.

  • d'Lynn February 29, 2016, 11:19 am

    Hey Paul – thanks for the article.., appreciate it. Diesel in the winter months around here is virtually useless as a stove fuel.., when it’s 16 degrees outside you need something with just a wee bit more fire power / ignition.

    When Spring coming on fast – how about an article on basic vegetable gardening. You don’t need a huge yard to grow a lot of veggies – a sunny back deck can hold a lot of containers.

    Thanks for all your articles.

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 11:22 am

      There are two from the previous two springs already. I will probably do something in a couple months, if we make it that far, which we probably won’t.

      • Rob February 29, 2016, 11:35 am

        We will make it that far and beyond for sure, although the world may look very different?
        BTW, you can grow almost anything, including potatoes, in 5 gallon buckets on your deck. Cover it with a tent made with PVC pipe and clear plastic drop cloth (from the paint department) during the winter time to extend your growing season.

      • d'Lynn February 29, 2016, 12:14 pm

        “We” will make.., thanks in part to your articles and research. Not too sure about the rest of the country though., especially the large inner-city populations. I worked on a “TimeLine of Collapse” on any given inner-city population, for an article.., the more you research that subject and detail the domino effect – the more despondent / depressed you become. It’s a horrific tale of the collapse of society., and there is no way to stop it.

        • Rob February 29, 2016, 6:09 pm

          d’Lynn I agree with you that city dwellers, unprepared people, or anyone who does not own any land (with access to water) will be in bad shape. Those will be the people we will need to defend ourselves against as they will be the desperate looters attacking our homes and families. It is very sad, but many of those people will not live.

          • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 6:45 pm

            And neither will you unless you store your own food. Your neighbors don’t have any food or access to water either. Land can grow food, but as I’ve shown, it isn’t easy, and you’ll die waiting. Your best bet is to store your own supplies, and hide. The looters won’t go after what they don’t know about. These armchair expert comments have very little value, when you should be spending your time reading the stuff here about calories per dollar, so you don’t blow your survival budget on a fool 30 day supply.

          • Rob March 1, 2016, 5:05 pm

            Not to worry Paul, my food and water supply is taken care of (and growing) …I have access to food, water, and a few other things… I own land with access to water in different areas. No “armchair expert” thing going on here. I do practice myself what I am talking about. I know how to grow food and I have done it successfully for years. I grow my own food and I can my own food. And my family has been eating and enjoying it. Let me tell you, I’m not going to die waiting Paul. I take it you think I am an “armchair expert” and my comments have very little value?
            Let me ask you, how much food have you yourself actually grown and canned? But this is your website and so you are the “top dog” here and I respect you for that.

          • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 12:37 pm

            Yes, if you look through the old articles you’ll see several instructional articles on canning and growing things, with pictures of my efforts. It is almost impossible to grow things in south florida, but I know a guy who was successfully against the worms using compost to grow them in.

          • Rob March 1, 2016, 6:00 pm

            Paul, as a token of my appreciation for your website and this forum, I have made a large batch (and still growing in size) of Loquat jam from Loquats that I grow so if you let me know where to send it I will send you a few mason jars of it if you like. I give away these jars of jam to friend and family and everyone says they like it.
            email me with your shipping address and I will send them your way.

          • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 12:35 pm

            Thanks Rob. I’m actually an orthodox jew and very strict kosher. There are probably no nonkosher ingredients in it, but we’re hard asses that way. Just the way we roll. The best thing you can do to thank me is go to Walmart and buy ever bag of flour they have on the shelf, then tell your neighbor to do the same thing next week, and pass it on.

          • Rob March 2, 2016, 3:25 pm

            My Loquat jam contains Loquats (grown with no insecticides, herbicides, or synthetic fertilizer), organic sugar, and distilled water. That’s it. Would that be kosher?
            I do have a lot of stored flour and also sourdough starter a friend gave me a while ago. I make our own bread for the family. If you have the sourdough starter you don’t need to buy the yeast to make bread.
            The recipe for the bread is really simple: “6-3-3-13”, meaning 6 cups of water, 3 tablespoons of salt, 3 tablespoons of yeast (or use some of the sourdough starter), 13 cups of flour. You can cut these proportions in half to make a smaller batch.
            You can use a Coleman fold up camp oven (about $28 at Walmart) to bake the bread on top of you stove o choice. 350 F for whole wheat bread for about 45 minutes or 450 F for white bread for about 35 minutes.
            I found out here in Florida where we live you can grow your food more easily if you use a screen house. You can buy a large roll of (nylon or so) Mosquito screen and use it to build a tent over your crop to keep the bugs out. It keeps the pollinating insects (bees) out also so if your plants need pollination you’ll need to do that yourself with a small paintbrush.
            In any case, to thank you I’ll go to Walmart and buy some more flour! I like the King Arthur brand because it is non-bromated, non bleached, and it has no preservatives.

          • Paul Helinski March 2, 2016, 10:29 pm

            Everything that grows from the ground is kosher. Like I said, probably nothing in there, but we have rules about pots and stuff too. It’s a mess lol.

            It’s funny you mention King Arthur. I was doing a video today of stovetop ovens that I’m testing and I was saying that I use a recipe I found on … could not for the life of me remember the name, but it is indeed KA. Their 2 lb. flour is perfect for double their burger bun recipe, which is a good amount for testing my stuff. The problem with KA flour is it is $1 more per bag. I don’t think any of that stuff matters when you are talking calories per dollar. Walmart flour is now up to $1.72, which is like a 20cent increase. I’d grab as much as you can store. There will be food inflation, while cash dries up for everything else. Ask Venezuela, Brazil, and all the other countries that are feeling the collapse already.

          • Rob March 3, 2016, 9:25 am

            Paul, what people should know probably is that when they buy and store their flour the insect eggs often already present in the flour will start to hatch eventually and the flour will be infested with bugs. Storing the flour in airtight containers or, better yet, vacuum sealing will help in extending the shelf life by depriving the insects of the required oxygen. Amazon.com sells flour in larger bags, around 20 lbs, and for some types of flour that is pretty cost effective.
            In case you are testing a Coleman camp oven as a stove top oven you may have noticed that the thermometer on the oven is not indicating the correct temperature. It may be off as much as 15 F. What I have done with the oven I have is use a separate grill thermometer with a long probe to crosscheck the Coleman thermometer and mark the Coleman thermometer with a sharpie pen at 350 F and 450 F. Any temperature in between you can extrapolate.

          • Paul Helinski March 3, 2016, 9:32 am

            If you read the food articles here on storage, you will see that you can get O2 absorbers in 10 packs, and store the food in either Mylar bags or plastic buckets, both of which I have found good cheap sources for online. For bags of flour, all you have to do is freeze them first, but I would still put in the O2 absorbers. See my cheap food from the Mormons article for the cheapest source I have found for 1 gallon O2 sized absorbers as well. I have an article coming shortly on #10 can sealers, and buying #10 cans.

        • Rob March 2, 2016, 3:32 pm

          Actually Paul, I forgot to mention something about the subject off growing food in South Florida. There is a tree by the name of “Moringa” and it grows extremely well in South Florida. It has a very high nutritional value and it is resistant to most insects. If you have some time you may want to do some research on it. Personally I cook the leaves and we eat them like Spinach. It is also very good food for livestock.

  • John February 29, 2016, 8:52 am

    I have a Motor Sich PT-3 like in your video and it is the best stove I have. It works great with a very hot blue flame, especially when you put the fuel inside the tank where it belongs, not all over the outside of the stove, and you preheat it in the proper way with either alcohol or a fuel tablet in the cup.
    Sometimes it helps when you mix 91% isopropyl alcohol (or grain alcohol) into the diesel but with kerosene, gasoline, or Coleman fuel you should not have to do that.
    You mentioned you can not find kerosene for sale in your area. I’m located in Florida like you and I buy kerosene at Walmart, Lowe’s, or Home Depot. You have to buy it during the winter season though because these stores don’t sell kerosene during the summertime unless it is leftover on the shelves from their winter sales.

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 9:15 am

      Kerosene is $7 per quart at Walmart lol. I think these Russian stoves are just defective.

      • John February 29, 2016, 11:24 am

        I agree the kerosene is expensive, but it is available for sale. The way I light up my Motor Sich PT-3 is that I fill the fuel tank about 3/4 full and close it well. Put the stove right side up on a flat surface. Close the flame adjusting valve all the way. Pump the pressure into the fuel tank (do it slowly) until a lot of resistance is being felt. Maybe 50 pumps? Put alcohol (or a solid fuel tab) in the cup and light it up. wait for about 3-5 minutes. No need for a big hurry here.
        Open the flame adjuster valve and when you see the vapor coming out of the burner, light it up. There will be yellow and orange flames for a few minutes until the generator tube is properly heated. Just leave it alone like that and let it heat itself up. When the generator tube is heated and hot enough you can adjust the flame to a hot blue flame and the burner will heat up red hot. The trick with these stoves is to work systematically and not get into a big hurry too fast.
        Maybe the stove you received is a lemon? Or the generator tube is clogged up? My stove came with a cleaning brush to clean out the generator tube but so far I have not had the need to use it.
        The fuel I am using right now was $10.98 for 120 fl oz at Lowe’s. It is actually a “kerosene alternative” with the brand name Klean Strip.

  • David C. Telliho February 29, 2016, 7:33 am

    My experience with a kerosene specific stove. It works great with kerosene and diesel in the summer time. Come winter, a different story. Kerosene still worked great. Diesel flows much slower when it`s cold. As the stove in my shop warmed up, the diesel fuel flowed faster, the flames grew higher, the smoke grew thicker. By the time I got over to that stove, the flames were almost 6 feet high, and smoke so thick, I could barely see. I shut off fuel, which didn`t stop what was already burning. I managed to get the damn thing outside without getting singed to bad. No, to diesel fuel for me, thank you. Unless it`s specifically designed for it. Even then, I`d be wary.

    • Paul Helinski February 29, 2016, 9:22 am

      There would be no difference between modern diesel and kerosene, or even clear lamp oil. This happened how many years ago? 20? The interesting thing about stories like this is that you never get the …and later I figured out… because it was so long ago all you remember was the incident, and not the resolution. The diesel in the tank would not be gelled once the stove was lit for more than a few minutes. Most likely you had a leak, or you just happened to have spilled some fuel and didn’t realize it. Kerosene would have shown the same result, including the smoke, because there is no difference. Diesel used to have the rotten egg smell of sulfur, but it no longer smells like that.

  • Bob L February 29, 2016, 6:33 am

    I think you meant propane has 40,000 less BTUs than diesel rather than 4,000. At least if the per-gallon figures of 129K and 84K are correct.

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