Black Aces Tactical Remington 870 Shotgun Rail

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The business end of my Remington 870 12 guage pump shotgun with the Black Aces Tactical shotgun rail system installed. As you can see, all four sides are available in the front, and there is a flat monolithic rail across the top. It does not require a gunsmith or any real tools to install, and you can sight on the original pathetic bead if you wish as well.

We have mounted a Leapers/UTG light and laser combo on the front and a red dot sight on the top rail. Note that all of the standard controls on the gun, as well as the pump itself, is in the normal and accessable configuration. If you look at the rear of the mount, the serial number is visible. Black Aces designed the rail to not obscure it for certain state laws.

The rail is solid and has no play whatsoever in it. Of all the rails I have seen for shotguns, the Black Aces tops my list as a serious optics platform.

This Remington 870 is one of many models available. It only ads a pound to the gun and mounts in about five minutes. See the mounting overview below.


Black Aces Tactical

http://www.blackacestactical.com/870

You can only buy so many guns (well, not really), so lately we’ve been looking into things that make the guns you already own more effective, and also look much cooler. I ran into this rail system from Black Aces Tactical while researching another article, and I have to say, the Black Aces Tactical shotgun rail is the best in its class that I have found for this application. If you own a tactical shotgun and have always wanted to have the ability to install lights, lasers, red dots, real sights, whatever, at a mere 16 ounces and currently on sale for $179, the Black Aces shotgun rail system is something you should look into. It is available for the Remington 870/1100, Mossberg 500/590, Benelli M1/2/4, and even the Saiga.

My sample rail that the Black Aces guys sent is for the Remington 870 pump gun, and it also apparently fits the 1100. Though I am more of a Mossberg 500 fan myself, I do keep an 870 in the safe for applications such as this. After all, the Remington 870 is the most popular police shotgun in the world, and to this day it is unrivaled in law enforcement armories and squad cars use. The problem I have always had with the 870 is that I have never felt that it deserves this leadership position. It really wasn’t designed as a tactical shotgun, and to this day still relies on an aftermarket quality magazine tube extension to hold more than 6 rounds.

This particular gun was shipped with the extended magazine, and installing the Black Aces rail was pretty easy (see photos), and it brings the gun into an entirely new dimension. The tactical 870 is something of a freak of nature. Besides the magazine extension issue, notice that this gun, replete with digital camo, came with a front bead for a sighting system. Can you imagine having to clear rooms, with potential hostiles mixed with friendlies, and even the possibility of a hostage situation, using a non-adjustable front bead as your only method of aiming the weapon? Apparently the folks at Remington are comfortable with it, because it isn’t them who do the room clearing, nor do they have their rooms cleared. But someone dealing with either side of that for themselves wouldn’t be as comfortable I think. As a working gun, the tactical 870 needs some help out of the box, and the Black Aces shotgun rail does the trick.

On the Remington 870 the Black Aces rail mounts directly to the pin holes for the trigger assembly in the back, and it uses a barrel and magazine clamp in the front. The kit does seem to require that you have the extended magazine installed, as you can see in the pictures. What I like about it most is that it does its thing without adding a lot of weight, and does not interfere with the controls of the gun whatsoever. If you have developed muscle memory for the controls of your shotgun, the Black Aces rail won’t interfere with your natural ability to handle the gun at all. Tricking out a gun is great, but if it is working gun you really don’t want to have to re-learn the weapon, and some accessories just weren’t meant for the gun to begin with. Be particularly careful to avoid forward vertical grips for the 870. The gun wasn’t made for them and the side rails tend to bend when you use a vertical grip, from the torque that is coming at the rails from a different angle. This is a common gunsmith problem these days on the 870. The Black Aces rail allows you to use the pump the reliable way you always have, and also adds the ability to mount whatever optics and other aiming devices you might choose to the gun as you wish.

Take a look at the assembly pictures to get a better understanding of how simple and secure the rail goes together. It is specifically designed to not cover the serial number of your gun, because this is illegal in some states. It is also made of fairly rigid T6 6106 aluminum and the anodizing is very thick, called Type 2. You would think that long span over the top of the gun would be easily bent with downward pressure, and aluminum has no memory like steel, so you would think this rail would be easy to ruin, but it isn’t. They probably designed it with mechanical engineers, because I even banged on it and it only sprung back. The sides of the rail are heavily vented for heat, but somehow the holes don’t take away the rigidity. I bent the steel heat shield on my old Mossberg 500 when I whacked it once, but I have yet to bend this aluminum rail from Black Aces Tactical, though I tried.

We also shot the gun some with the Black Aces rail installed and it retained point of aim 100%. It didn’t budge actually. This is the biggest deal with tactical rails. No matter how good it might look, or how practical it may seem, the lowest common denominator on all rails is that they have to be a stable sight platform on the gun under firing conditions. We only tested this with 2 3/4″ buckshot and slugs, but the Black Aces rail never moved, and never got loose, even without any Locktite. I would Locktite the screws if you intend to leave this on the gun, but the design manages the recoil well enough that the screws don’t seem to naturally come loose. It is on there to stay.

The accessories on the gun are all from Leapers. As you have seen in some of our other rail articles, we got a whole bunch of stuff from them specifically for these projects to show everyone that for your average armchair prepper, these cheap Chinese accessories work just fine and look fantastic. Everyone should have one “ready gun,” and a tactical shotgun is a great choice. The cheap accessories do seem to hold zero and they are at least somewhat durable, but you are much better to rely on a Surefire, Eotech, Trijicon, etc., for your ready gun, and not the cheap stuff. But you can of course only hold one gun at a time, and those name brand name gizmos are expensive, so the Leaper stuff can at least make your other guns look good in the meantime, and for not a lot of money.

You can actually still sight on the original bead of the 870 with this Black Aces rail. So from a practical standpoint, the gun is no worse off than the way Remington sold it to you, and it is most likely a whole lot better.


Installing the Black Aces Tactical Shotgun Rail – Photo Essay

This is the basic kit. I have slid the rail over the gun to show you how it goes on. The kit itself doesn’t come with any pictures at all. The clamp pieces mount to the barrel and mag tube and the other parts replace the pins in the fire control on the gun.

There is no native 8 round tube for a Remington 870. You need either an aftermarket magazine extension or a model like this one that comes with an extension right from Remington. Remove that barrel and mag tube clamp as your first step. Note that you DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE MAG TUBE OFF. I just wanted to show the difference between what you would see on a Mossberg 8 shot, which has a factory full length mag tube.

Loosly attach the clamp that comes with the kit, using the two countersunk screws. You will have to slide this meet up with the holes in the rail later, so don’t tighten this down yet.

The kit comes with two sizes of these silver pins to match the two pins you removed. Those little screws fit the sides of the pins and will hold the rail on. The plastic washers fill the space between the receiver and the rail.

Slip the pins into the holes and put the plastic washers over the ends of them like this, then pull the rail over the front of the gun and match it up with the holes.

Use the four small screws to attach the rear of the rail on both sides. Just leave it loose for now.

Use something to push underneath the rail and line up the bracket with the holes in the sides of the rail.

Use the remaining screws to attach the front of the rail to the clamp, and tighten the whole thing down by alternating until both front and back are solid. If you intend to leave it on for the duration, use some Locktite on the screws in advance.

Tighten the rear screws down as well. You will need a wrench on both sides.
These non-serialized parts are the only difference in the finished product, so you aren’t hurting the value of gun at all with the modification.

{ 33 comments }

{ 32 comments… add one }

  • sean peterman June 22, 2012, 12:48 am

    want that for my 870!!!

  • Brent Bennett June 25, 2012, 7:26 am

    You should have did these Pictures, of the , Black Aces Tactical, Remington 870 Shotgun Rail System, over a WHITE Backround ! Would have been MUCH easier to See !

  • marcus June 25, 2012, 7:31 am

    If it only had a built in side saddle…..

  • irvin lehman June 25, 2012, 8:43 am

    I assume the author didn’t know that the Rem 870 is available with rifle sights and many agencies use those.
    I found it interesting that in the same newsletter the Springfield XDS is extolled as wonderful for concealed carry but the 870 is underpowered because it only hold six rounds (really, six round of buck or slug is far greater than six round of .45 ACP). If a homeowner can’t solve his problem with six shotgun rounds he is at the wrong party.
    IMO shotguns should be kept simple: rifle sights and a light and you should be good to go.

    • Administrator June 25, 2012, 9:10 am

      Nobody is room clearing with an XD-S my friend.

      • irvin lehman June 25, 2012, 5:06 pm

        Nobody mentioned room clearing until your brought it up but if your in your home and that’s all you have well….that’s what you will be forced to use.

  • Gregg June 25, 2012, 9:03 am

    If you think this shotgun is nice, you better think again. Mine, posted for sale on GunsAmerica makes this gun look like a 1940′s shotgun. Tactical is using the word nicely after you look and see what I did to mine.

    Brand New, Never Fired…

    You can own it…Make me a good offer!

    http://gastatic.com/UserImages/117592/937326406/wm_3961217.jpg

    • Mike June 25, 2012, 9:53 am

      What is that choke you have installed? Must not be a magnum, since they don’t have threads for chokes.

      • Administrator June 25, 2012, 10:26 am

        Choke? It is a cylinder bore.

        • David August 30, 2013, 9:15 am

          After 30 feet the shot spread will cover most people neck to crotch.
          I bought a H&R clone and love it.

    • Dennis Harp June 25, 2012, 11:02 am

      what is the asking price?

    • Muhjesbude December 3, 2012, 10:25 am

      Yeah, not bad Gregg, but my 870 express magnum custom tactical Zombie tool is better. Holds eight 3″ rounds off the 18″ barrel, has a top folder stock, padded at cheek and laser, strobe, micro dot sight and Hi Vis front/rear fixed sights, non reflective dura coat, improved trigger etc. etc. and it’s probably lighter and tighter than yours, or certainly this porcine Black Aces Rail job which reminds me of another ‘Pig’ we carried a lot back in the days, but at least it had some awesome firepower not limited to a few rounds.

      But I’m also selling mine on GA. But I’ll wait a couple weeks to give you a chance otherwise they won’t even look at yours, LOL!. Why am i obviously selling a state of the art 870? Well, because it sucks. Sucks, that its, in comparison to much more superior shotguns out there now, for not much more in cost. It never ceases to amaze me, like with the great AK-47/AR-15 debates, how people simply can’t ‘adapt’ and ‘overcome’ when it comes to personal equipment upgrades and they just can’t tear their trigger fingers of their slabsides and senile pump shitguns no matter if some one even gave them a better tool for free! At best you might ‘persuade’ them to buy this Black Aces sort of bolt on gun ‘bling’ to create the illusion that they now have a better fighting gun, when the gun itself was never intended to be one in the first place.

      Police agencies picked up on shitguns when Thompsons were frowned upon after the notorious Dillinger fiasco and they didn’t want cops looking like gangsters (hahahaha, i suppose looking like jack booted storm troopers on steroids is a a public relations improvement these days) So for superior firepower over their .38 special revolvers, Cops began carrying shotguns in the trunks of the squad cars, then up front as their ‘stopping’ power became preferable in certain situations. ‘Remington probably was the the cheapest of decent quality and most available. And that’s how the pump shotgun got started with police work as it is today. They never were and still are not, the best police CQB tactical weapon. Especially the long gun style full stock shotguns. Shotguns, popular ignorance aside, are NOT the best defense weapon for un skilled shooters. They actually require more practice and training than a pistol to achieve optimum effectiveness, otherwise they can almost be a disadvantage.

      Shotguns have a limited tactical application, even if you have the best one specifically designed for so called tactical police work, you must be well versed and skilled to optimize even that limited area of performance. But as is typical with armchairist weapons experts, most have never been in real firefights, or police work, or combat. (squirrel and clay blasting, notwithstanding.) And they simply don’t understand tactics and applicatons. ‘Applying’ accessories under the fantasy that it will improve your performance is like saying “people don’t kill, guns kill”. You must get rid of the ‘bolt on’ hot rodding’/fix what ain’t broken/and for only $9.95 you will be immune from Kryptonite or shoot like Rambo. Very few ‘accessories’ are worth anything in real combat. especially in amateur hands. The money is better spent on ammo and practice.

      If one cannot become unconstipated with old pump shitguns, out of the three most ubiquitoous dinasaurs, Remington,Winchester, and Mossberg, limiting to so-called ‘tactical’, the old Winchester 1300 Defender extended magtube pistol grip is probably worth having for certain applications, if you have to limit yourself to one of these. Only because its small light and handy and Like somebody above said, all you need is a light attached with a switch above the trigger for most practical purposes for the Shotgun. Remember, all pumps are not created equal. Mossbergs have the best safety release on top with the thumb, Winchester has the best reload feed action, especially in half loaded tube mode, which is Very Important considering how easy it is to jam a pump shotgun when reloading under adrenalin pressure or someone shooting at you. But again, these are not ‘armchair’ assumptions. These are empirical analysis after many years and many more rounds by Pro operators and users, who now, by the way, would be better served, and serving, using one of the newer breeds like the Kel Tec and a couple more that look promising.

      As far as ‘house clearing’, I’m going to get really pissed now, but hopefully it will save lives. At our special training courses we never taught house clearing for civilians, like those ‘other’ phony schools did. You paid a lot of money for us to ‘learn ya’ how to really really really protect yourself, not commit suicide. Now GODDAMN IT House clearing efforts are strictly and ONLY for professional on duty Police and Military people! PREFERABLY their highly trained SWAT crews. NOT Jimmy Joy Juice and is super rodded trick pony 870. Get that through your BB brains, people, before the last thing that goes through your untrained mind is the perp’s bullet. Never go looking for trouble. It will find you soon enough. If there’s a pervert ZOM sneaking around in your house by the time you are ‘up in arms’, you already fucked up big time in terms of security. You know, like you expertly learned from your armchair movies, like the king had his firepowr of ’870′ soldiers inside the castle, but he still had a perimeter moat?

      If you are in a living in a place where crime rate increases the liklihood of a home invasion then you should also have a security system. Almost before you have a weapon. If you can’t have a perimeter security counter instrusion set up like some of us in rural locations have that even a marine squad would have a tough time penetrating before they were captured, You should at least have a passive anti-intrusion system, and we don’t mean ‘first alert’ or ADT. Psycho Zoms don’t bother to go to alarm and lock schools anymore. They prefer to bust right in and ‘home invade’ while you all are totally engaged in stuffing your pie holes at the dinner table, or have all your senses completely owned by football franchise on your 60 inch HDTV, oblivious to anything else around you…until somewhere in the house you hear a muffled scream, then before you can hit the remote to turn up the volume to hear the game better, the door to your cozy TV room bursts open and a pop eyed yellow fanged bad breathed psycho whacks you off the Lazy Boy recliner with his pistol and says.. ‘”Gotcha Motherfucker! ,now where’s all that gold you been fucking buying and stashing, asshole…or we’ll start by cutting off some pieces of your wife or kids…”

      Having a good dog or good ‘anti-intrusion’ alarm system makes up for most of us not being martial arts experts, or un-defeatable weapons masters. But only if deployed and integrated properly with your own habits of security awareness and alert responsiveness. It also helps keep amateur ‘house clearers’ from shooting your own relatives who are trying to quietly sneak back in the house after staying out late and getting drunk.

      If you don’t have this type of security situation and wake up in the middle or the night after hearing someone sneaking around, and try to do your own house clearing, you immediately increase your chances of dying by many percentage points. If intruders are sneaking and hear you sneaking toward them, they will hide and wait and The advantage always goes to the Ambush. And it’s a huge advantage. If you are so stupid as to walk right into an ambush by attempting your own ‘house clearing’ by yourself, no less, then you deserve what you get, and you certainly will get what you deserve. We always suggest in our seminars and training that you sleep in ‘glow in the dark’ underware so you make yourself a better target so they might kill you quickly and humanely, so you don’t have to bleed out in pain and torment yourself over how much of a moron you were to be doing your own house clearing.

      If you have family sleeping in other bedrooms, the best thing is to have, in advance, an optimum advantage/ambush spot of your own, to guard access to your family, such as the top of the stairway to the bedrooms of your loved ones. while you dial 911. Give yourself the ‘ambush’ advantage by letting them come to you. If you are alone, then grab your go weapon and get the hell out of Dodge as fast as you can, down the street, and somewhere safe. And then let the Police (preferably the highly trained ones who really know what they’re doing) and their K-9 unit do the ‘house clearing’ for you. Don’t do any freaking house clearing yourself, Please.

      Shotguns

    • Mike December 3, 2012, 10:46 pm

      Don’t think you are comparing apples with apples her my friend, don’t see any sights, don’t see room for all the additions that this rail offers, but you do have a nice piece, just not what most are looking for, if you go to court for shooting some intruder and they bring this out the first thing they will scream is that you built it just to kill someone and not for self defense or protection.

      • David August 30, 2013, 9:32 am

        Mike I agree, the rail is nonsense, if the cylinder choke spreads like mine no sights needed, shoot from the hip will do just fine after a few feet. There are lots of shotgun laser and flashlight mounts on the market already at only a couple ounces, why add a pound and clutter cleaning with that silly extra metal.

  • Tom E. June 25, 2012, 9:08 am

    Will this rail work with a Surefire Weaponlight or will I need to remove it?
    Thank you.

    • Administrator June 25, 2012, 9:38 am

      I would ask them.

  • SFC J. Simmons, US Army, Ret June 25, 2012, 11:02 am

    Could I mount that on my Maverick 88, 12 GA?

    • Administrator June 25, 2012, 11:17 am

      Ask them.

  • Thomas P. Anderson June 25, 2012, 1:11 pm

    Hey, will this setup work with the factory and/or aftermarket rifled 870 12 gauge barrels with rifle sights?

    • Administrator June 25, 2012, 1:22 pm

      It should.

  • MCLMM June 25, 2012, 1:13 pm

    Sure it looks cool; but as for the stated intent, I’ve been “clearing rooms” for a long time… I love the shotty, I prefer it over the M4 and sometimes the Mk18 for a lot of gigs. The go-to gun leaning next to my bed at home is an 870 and I really have never felt undergunned with it there.

    Anyway, I would pay 100 bucks to take a pound OFF of the gun!

    • David August 30, 2013, 11:24 am

      If I had one of those one pound tactical rails:
      I would use it on a big fish thrashing around in the bottom of a boat, just shoot it a couple of times to get things under control. That would look cool……especilally to all the wannabes on this site.

  • irvin lehman June 25, 2012, 5:09 pm

    Hi MCLMM

    Agreed, the best shotgun are light and simple.

  • flattop June 26, 2012, 1:54 pm

    You should not downgrade the rem 870. I was a police officer in Houston Tx for 22 years and the 870 was with me every day… I don’t know how many rooms you have cleared with a gun but I have cleared a large amount and was the point man due to having the 870.! You also say that the rail only adds 1 pound to the gun, try carrying that extra weight around a large warehouse or office building that takes 4 officers 3 or 4 hours to clear…the mossberg looks cool but is not strong enough for the average abuse that police work causes on a long arm…I’ll keep my 870 it keeps 9 pellets of 00 buck at point of aim at 20 yards inside a 3 inch circle with the standard bead with a Briley choke

    • rb December 3, 2012, 10:48 pm

      Try a sling. It will shift the weight from your arms to your back/shoulders. I humped a 203, and assisted on the 60. Try that for a few months. You might try working out a little more…..

  • Thomas July 9, 2012, 9:57 am

    Nothing says says Get down and shut up like a shotgun with a laser dot point on it..!!!

    • Muhjesbude December 3, 2012, 1:27 pm

      Well, i don’t know about ‘nothing’. How about a compact machine pistol with at least a hundred round capacity of high powered frangible bullets in the hands of somebody who really knows how to use it? It’s simple math. At a modest cyclic rate of 600 rpm divided by 60 seconds is about 10 rounds out the barrel in one second, which is about the time it takes to jack and fire one shotgun round of 9 .32 cal. pellets. out of an 870 for the average shooter. So a one hundred mag in a compact machine gun effectively be more powerful with ‘burst’ of 9 or ten 9mm or bigger ‘pellets’ hitting center target mass virtually in the same time a shotgun ‘blast’. Essentially an equivelent of 10 ’rounds’ of shotgun pellet distribution in terms of capacity. But here’s the big difference. 10 high velocity 9mm or .223 frangible bullets hitting a body at once is much more ‘potent’ and powerful than a 9 pellets of 00 buck. AND, By the time you try to reload 10 more shotgun shells in your 870, I’ll have already reloaded and blasted out at least a hundred more rounds from my AR-15 11.5 barrel and 4 inch suppressor lightweight house defense pistol/carbine before you can return fire again. AND, I have the versatility where I can moderate my rate of fire to less or all out long burst hold back the trigger disintegration fire. AND, i don’t have to worry about chokes or range if it the perp is running for distant cover, because it’s dead on without worrying about pattern dissipatioon well past shotgun ranges. Shitguns have limited tactical applications and are certainly not for practical continuous CQB engagements. Anything you can do with an 870, a skilled shooter with a good subgun or full-auto AR-15 can do just as good and often much better. Even if you can’t or don’t want to own a full auto, Which of course is why ‘They’ don’t want you to have them and restrict them and try to ban hi-cap mags, a fast action shooter with a semi-auto version can still beat a shitgun in most, if not all circumstances, depending upon ammo and configuration. So its a pretty good bet that they’ll also ‘get down and shut up’, maybe even faster, with an AR-15 with a C-mag with a strobe light disrupting their equilibrium long enough for you to get close enough to make sure they comply by tagging them with the Tazer attachment on your integrated quad rail.

      • Mike December 3, 2012, 11:26 pm

        I see now what the intent is, this is a dick measuring contest for you!! This rail is for the average Joe that has one gun to protect his little house and family, if everyone had the arsenal that you have this would not be offered probably, I have all of what you are talking about including 2 .50 cals one Barrett and one AR, I have a .408 Chey Tac, a .338 Lapua etc. I have AR-10 Snipers, AR-15 National Matchs, mac-10′s and 4 or 5 other safes full of toys, so why even let them get within a half mile of your home??? The point of the above (dick measuring contest) was that you guys are way off the point here, it is a simple offering of a .870 add on for christ sakes. In your beginning statements it showed just how hard headed you were and are, also there are ladies that read this stuff also, I am sure your family is very proud of you vocabulary, I would not bring my wife (which is an officer such as myself and take a class from you if it were free) I did my tour in Viet Nam from 68 to 72 and have seen up close what shotguns, AR”s and about every other type of wound looks like and I still learn something new everyday. (Just for home work investigate a weapon called the hush puppy which I carried everywhere while in service in Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia, oops I forgot we were never in Laso or Cambodia) We also do classes and I hate to admit it but some of the things you have stated are very very correct. But as far as leaving it to the proffesionalls, when you live 45 minutes out of town and a bad guy is in your house 911 or running to a neighbor is not the option you offer!!! I agree with your ambush approach, but as far as fire power, a .22 well placed will stop a gorilla, though I am not saying that a .22 is appropriate but an .870 is a fine home protection weapon especially if you already own one. If not then it is wide open and your only limit is your wallet, have a nice evening and hopefully you never have to use any weapon to protect yourself or your loved ones, but if you do, do not hesitate or you will be the one they carry out to the cemetary.

        • Muhjesbude December 5, 2012, 11:33 am

          Well, Mikey, Since you obviously want to also demonstrate how big your swinger is, You sure say the word ‘dick’ a lot? But that’s fine, it’s your right to free speech. But I was in the same ugly green neighborhood that you visited as a young smiley faced American hero only a pubic hair out of puberty back in the days. I was based from the Central Highland area out of Pleiku from 67-71 then wounded out. My ‘unit’ doesn’t even exist anymore as it was only for the benefit of the CIA at the time. Then too many years with a big city PD. Instructor and Swat team leader, and undercover cop. Then back to ‘school’ as a civilian operator in Iraq, then as a private security contractor/instructor with the infamous ‘Blackwater’ boys. And enough other stuff like being a nationally rated martial arts competitor, three gun competitor, and more stuff than they can make movies about, that kept me too busy to even get married until i was 50! Lol! So i think that kind of resume should at least allow me to exercise my fucking free speech rights to say ‘Fuck’ if i feel it compliments the syntax? Don’t you, Mikey?
          And I don’t give a shit how many ‘ladies’ read this shit. I’m not interested in their moral feelings being hurt, I’m fucking interested in helping them SURVIVE, you fucking silly MO FO! And unless you can honestly guarantee that you or your wife or any other women–especially cops– never said a biddy bad four letter word in their fucking lives, the shut the fuck up, DUDE! Because here’s some ball breaking news flashing for you. ‘Ladies’ know all about the word ‘Fuck’. And even more than you when it comes to doing it! LOL! You DO remember all the ‘Cherry girls’ in-country you had so much fun with when you were there, don’t you? With 4 tours of duty you had to have had at least one R&R to Bangkok! So If you need to exercise some form of phallic extension of your own anal retentive censorship obsessions , worry more about kids texting pornography of themselves, and other ‘Real PO PO work’, not adult writers’ adjectives when trying to help people understand dangerous tools so they don’t hurt themselves or others. Between Administrator suppressing my freedom of movement rights by telling me to slow down my responses, and you violating my 1st Amendment rights— no fucking wonder this country is so fucked. We are all our own worst enemies. But don’t worry what my family thinks of my writing. My books and articles put food on the table for them and they are Patriots who stand up for people’s rights, even if they are offensive or they disagree. Plus, if they don’t like my verbiage, they don’t have to fucking read it. Nobody is forcing them. Freedom works in mysterious ways!!!
          Also You probably wouldn’t qualify to take our high speed max operator courses. There’s a physical fitness level required and at your age and i doubt you still have it. Plus it’s quite expensive. But I’d take one of your classes if it were free. YOU’D definitely learn something useful, LOL!
          I agree that in many rural and even some urban municipalites 911 would be a waste of time when seconds count BUTT-(and that probably your fat assed butt on the line) Apparently you must have been a Gyrene and never learned about ‘fall back and regroup’ tactics. Its always better to live to fight another day than to go out like a suicide bomber. Apparently you must be a rural cop and not a real Big City one? Otherwise you should know better. If you are concerned about this stuff enough to have an arsenal but so stupid as to not have an anti-intrusion system in place on your domicile (you’d learn a ‘thang’ or two if you saw what i carry for intrusion security when i’m traveling’ No way you’re coming through my motel door by surprise,LOL!)…then you are too stupid to stick around and try to shoot it out with three psycho’s jacked up on drugs who wake you up under stress. Why would anyone with any real training do that if they have nobody else in the house to protect? I’d grab my bedside grab gun and blow right out that bedroom window, all in one fluid motion, wind sprint away and dive behind my car take a deep breath and try to get wide awake and focused before i do anything else. (That scenario wouldn’t be possible in my current security set up, having intruders wake me up by surprise, that is) And if you plan and practice, simiar to a fire drill, you can usher the whole family quickly and quietly and slip right out the back, jack, while the boogymen are creeping and snooping for the loot. If that could be done, you wouldn’t be risking their lives in a super high risk inside gunbattle. In all my years in the business and this line of work, with countless references to home invasions, i’ve never heard of the psycho’s chasing outside after the occupants once they were inside, especially if the exiting occupant has a weapon.
          House clearing should never ever be done as a first option for the occupants of a dwelling. Period. If you can’t get any part of that, then you are not responsible enough to be any kind of security instructor. If you want to spend the money, i can end all debates on this with a simulation scenario exercise. We do this all the time to bust out the myths. Crime report statistics already bust out this myth proving that anyone who stays and ‘Rambo’s it out’ is in the high injury and deceased group. Those who manage to bug out away from the intruders quickly are in the best survival group. But all you ‘gunslingers’ still let your ‘dicks’ do your thinking for you. “You will not live long having more balls than brains in life” ~postumously awarded CMOH winner–before he died.
          Just ask yourself why even the cops don’t even ‘go in on potential ‘suspects still inside’ but instead wait outside for the dogs, and A TRAINED SWAT TEAM. Or why people in high risk areas who can afford them have ‘safe rooms’ if they can’t slip out easily. Otherwise, if they can afford a safe room, they can also ‘gun-up’ to max and get trained and skilled enough to out draw Wyatt Earp?!
          It’s because of this: The simple way people think. Which is usually wrong. Instead of preparing to die, which is what you do in any intentional directed confrontation, the better way of thinking is to emphasize preparing to Live, by factoring in the ‘avoidance’ direct exposed confrontation.

          You know, I can always tell somebody who was never in a real police shootout. They are too eager to ‘throw down’ and ‘git it oown’ as a first option. (and don’t be so stupid as to misunderstand that to mean not taking the first shot advantage when there’s no other option, I was one of the first martial arts guys to challenge the status quo on training self defense moves in Karate’). Think about it. Put another way, you can train your ass off until you are so good you make Rambo look like a cub scout. But the dirty shocking reality is that no actual real fire fight is EVER the same as training. As for not letting them ‘get within a half mile of your house’ Well, hellfire from DE LAWD, Mikey! Now you’re getting it. That’s exactly what i got cameras and a very well trained 100 pound Shutzenhund for perimeter security. Recently, in one of my consulting jobs, i advised the owner to get a small tracked bot (minus the GE minigun, of course,lol!) and program it with sensors to patrol his perimeter and we think we can put one together for him actually less than the cost of a good dog. (mine was 5 grand from Illinois)
          Since you’ll never take our classes, hope that provides some snacks for a critical thinking brain. If you have one. Otherwise, fuck it, if you can’t take a joke.

  • AAFoster December 3, 2012, 6:32 am

    I don’t think you guys test fired with this rail…IT SUCKS…I have gone through 2 of them…they move forward on the gun…..the first one actually broke the 2 lower receiver screws, bent and stretched the hold tabs…..they sent me the “newer redesigned stronger” version…it did the same thing, moved forward on the gun….didn’t fire over 6 rounds with it, the first time maybe 18 rounds…I wrote them back again, …never heard from them….this rail is way pricey and didn’t work for me and my mossy 500.

    and yes, it adds a lot of extra weight and bulkiness! its strictly a pricey “tacti-cool” rail and not worth it IMO.

    keep it simple, more junk is NOT better………….

  • AAFoster December 3, 2012, 6:35 am

    Oh Yea…the after-tought shell holder they “designed”? CHEAP……………as in lousy plastic/alum design and LOOKS it too!……..pricy and NOT worth it.

  • Eric December 6, 2012, 10:23 pm

    I just received this kit for my 870 and it is superb – a cinch to install, very solid, and superbly finished. Great product, highly recommended!

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