For more information, visit https://www.franklinarmory.com/index.html.
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The definition of binary is “consisting of, indicating, or involving two.” That is exactly how the Franklin Armory Binary Firing System (BFS) operates—or not. The BFS drop-in AR-15 trigger allows a shooter to fire a round with the press of a trigger and fire a round with a release of the trigger. Priced at an MSRP of $399.99, it is a simple concept at first blush, but you really need to get your head around it since releasing the trigger is the normal procedure to reset a trigger in an AR-15 rifles or any semi-automatic firearm. From a tactical standpoint, this means you can conceivably fire two rounds down range in the time it would normally take to reset your trigger in the typical semi-automatic after one shot. Call it a double tap or two quick shots, the Franklin Armory BFS can significantly increase the rate of lead down range.
The way the BFS works is via three sears that are activated by the safety selector. The drop-in BFS works in conjunction with a highly modified safety selector. A safety sticker—one of the first steps Franklin Armory describes in the installation manual—informs the user that the AR-15 is not set up like the typical semi-automatic AR-15. The safety selector has the familiar “SAFE” and “Semi” modes, but instead of a third “Auto” mode it is marked for a “BINARY” mode. This system makes sense since there may be situations where you only want to shoot one round at a time like in semi-automatic mode.
My first question before first acquiring a BFS was: How do I stop the equipped AR-15 from firing more than one shot when in “BINARY” mode? The answer is simple. But, more on that in a moment.
The BFS takes a slightly different skill set to manipulate the trigger and the ambidextrous safety selector, and that is just the nature of the beast when it comes to any piece of new equipment. You need to put in place new procedures, and Franklin Armory lays out the new procedures simply so even I can understand them.
The BFS is called a drop-in trigger, but it is not a drop-in in the truest sense. The fire control pocket of all AR-15s differ slightly—mil-spec or not mil-spec—and a bit of fitting or shimming is required on the BFS to make it fit and function properly. Franklin Armory has designed the BFS so it is compatible with all AR-15 lowers, even after it has been fitted to a specific lower.
I’ve replaced plenty of AR-15 triggers, and the drop-in varieties are an exercise in simplicity. Literally drop the trigger in the fire control pocket and replace the trigger and hammer pins. Done. The BFS is a different animal requiring a bit of finesse to fit. Franklin Armory suggests the trigger be installed by a gunsmith and if you are mechanically challenged that might be the route you take. If you are a DIY type of guy or gal, then you will find fitting the BFS is pretty simple task.
You will note on the bottom of the BFS trigger housing are two circular ridges. Depending on how the BFS fits in your lower receiver you will either need to add shims, which Franklin Armory provides, or file down the circular ridges. I had three lowers on hand and I wanted to see which lower would allow me to drop the BFS in, push in the pins and be good to go. On hand were Stag Arms, PSA and Ruger lowers. All were slightly different in internal dimensions. The BFS fit easily in the PSA and Ruger, but was a bit more snug in the Stag Arms. For all three lowers it looked like the pin holes in the lower aligned with the pin holes in the BFS, but in all three receivers they were a hair off. The pins should push in with finger pressure. Don’t try to gorilla it and use a brass hammer. The critical thing with the BFS is make sure the trigger housing sits in the fire control pocket at the right height and that it is at the right height so that the pins can be pushed in with finger pressure only. If they do you are good to go. You will need to the tap the last 16th of an inch or so of the pins since the BFS has a retainer clip built into it that snaps into one of the grooves in the pins.
I decided to first fit the BFS to the PSA lower and held the BFS in a vise. Fitting the PSA would require me to remove metal from the rings to get the pins to align. Taking swipes with a metal file, I took the same number of passes at the same pressure forward and aft of the trigger, then dropped the BFS into the lower and checked the pins. I was going slow since I did not want to remove too much material. You could also use a piece or sandpaper wrapped around a flat piece of wood and get the same results. A Dremel tool is an option, but it can take too much material off. I have found Dremel tools allow you to make big mistakes rather fast. Stick with the file or sandpaper. After about three passes, the BFS dropped in and the pins pushed in the with just finger pressure.
In the case where the fire control pocket is too deep, shims provided by Franklin Armory allows the user raise the BFS within the pocket. The same procedure applies, except the polymer shims (which are positioned in the two circular ridges) can be relieved of material as needed. Use a razor knife to remove one layer at a time, each of which is .0002 inches thick. It’s like peeling back the skin of an onion. Take a layer off the shim, test it in the lower, and continue until the pins can be inserted into the lower using finger pressure. I was able to use the shims to get the BFS to work with the Ruger and the Stag rifles.
There are 11 prescribed function check scenarios that you need to run through prior to range testing. The function checks ensure the trigger and safety selector are working as designed. As you work your way through the 11 scenarios, you will test the safety selector and trigger in “SAFE,” “SEMI,” and “BINARY” modes. Don’t skip this important step. Running through the function checks, I was able to get an idea on how the rifle operates with the BFS and how I needed to manipulate the rifle with the unique BFS trigger.
A CHANGE OF HEART
So, back to my earlier question: As I noted earlier, when in “BINARY” mode, how could I fire a round with a trigger press and then disengage the trigger so that on release of the trigger a second round would not fire? There are a number of instances where you may need this functionality: Shot one on the trigger press, and the target is neutralized so there is no need to fire the second round with a trigger release; or multiple rounds fired may reveal your location, or I know I’m running low on ammo. Yes, I understand that is what “SEMI” mode is for, but I’m making a point that the rifle needs to be rendered safe when I release my finger from the trigger. The procedure to do this is to keep the trigger pressed and rotate the selector into “SEMI” mode. I also wanted to understand if I used this procedure if the hammer needed to be recocked to fire the rifle. The answer is yes. So, after you have selected “SEMI”, eject the round in the chamber, which resets the hammer for “SEMI” or “BINARY” modes.
At the range I loaded a 30-round magazine and got a feel for the trigger in “SEMI” mode. The trigger broke clean at about 4.5 pounds. Switching the selector to “BINARY” mode, it felt odd to release the trigger to fire a round, but I soon—after a magazine or so—got the hang of release-firing the AR. The speed was astounding. Just listening to the muzzle blast, you would think I was firing full-auto. Speed is fun and in some situations could be a life saver. Controlling the weapon in rapid firing took some adjustment and a firm grip. But what is speed without accuracy—noise and empty brass, in my opinion. I used a Shoot-N-C target so I could see the effect down range. The 8-inch target was peppered with holes. I found I could fire the BFS at rapid speed with good accuracy if I kept my bursts to three, four or five shots. After the fifth shot, the muzzle began to climb upward. A good compensator would really enhance shooting accuracy. The PSA kept pace with the BFS, spitting out a ribbon of brass. It has to be one of the more fun ways to quickly unload a magazine.
Disclaimer: Since the Franklin Armory BFS trigger group is unique and can fire a round by releasing the trigger, it is important to be extra vigilant with all safe gun-handling practices and procedures related to its use.
For more information, visit https://www.franklinarmory.com/index.html.
To purchase on GunsAmerica.com, click this link: https://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.aspx?T=franklin%20binary
I love this trigger.What is wrong with harmless fun. Now the gun control crowd are going to have a good fight on their hands from us.We control the senate and the supreme and federal courts and the 9th clown court of appeals.The ATF just cant make laws .The ATF should not be a government agency,they should be a convenience store.
You can learn a lot from a dummy. “Can’t we all get along”………Rodney King
“We” don’t need this? You got a mouse in your pocket? Speak for yourself, and ONLY yourself. You’re not my voice.
This is such a cute comment. Ever considered carrying a gun for a living? No? Don’t. You’re not suited for it. Stay safe, bro. Folks in the wings will keep you from harm if it ever approaches you.
I not only bought a Franklin Binary Gen2, but also just received my Fostech Echo. As far as I’m concerned, these trigger systems are now MUST HAVES for any AR15. If you hate machineguns, don’t buy one. It’s a direct in-your-face to the BATFE. Controlled full-auto rate of fire without it being full-auto. With the drums that are available, an AR with one of these trigger systems is better than the M16’s they issue the military. I’m sure some day they will be banned from further production and BATFE will make you register the guns you have – that’s fine, I’ve got my two. I’ll need to stock up on spare parts. No wonder 75% of the crap sold at gun shows is AR15 related. WE HAVE OUR FULL AUTO!!! That’s all I need for me and my family to have full-auto fun off into the far future. BATFE ain’t taking my kodachrome away!!!
I may have missed an answer to my question, but how does the BFS work with a bump stock? Has anyone combined the two? I can envision some issues, but before I expose myself to the risks of going crazy with combining these two cool alternatives to a Class 3 license, I thought it best to ask if one of you adventurous shooters have already done so. Have a ranch in South Texas that is being overrun with wild (feral) pigs, and they are doing serious damage to valuable grazing and hay pastures. They come mostly at night, though sometimes during the day, and I want to get them in a group when I can unload on them.
Thanks for your responses.
I’m a retired machinist with over 40 years in the trade. How Franklin Armory can justify $429 for this trigger group is beyond me.
I have the Franklin Armory Gen2 – this is a complex trigger system and will not be easily replicated. Same goes with the Fostech Echo. Franklin’s Gen3 – I sort of agree with you; not much there that can’t be replicated. You need to handles these before you simply say you don’t know how they get $400-$500 for these. Frankly, I was far more surprised at how intricate and precision these systems actually are. When I see custom switchblade knives selling for $1,000+, I wonder how they can make and sell these things for $500.
These are cool,,but this and the other “trigger kits” that have been available or the arm stabilizer, there legal and there just more ammo for the F$%#ing psychotic dum o libs.
I’ve seen people use the brace for a stock which as most know is a no no,, the same with the trigger kits they can look and sound to most law enforcement like select fire weapons.
Even here in Wyoming law enforce aint to bright with gun laws if they hear it runn’in fast or it looks like your shooting a short barrel AR they stop to see what’s going on and they want paper work.
As much as this stuff is cool I just don’t think there worth the hassle or the lose of your shooter or the dollars it cost to get back what is legal to start with if there not bright enough to know what you have.
And another thing that is fact,, the 200.00 tax stamp to have a short barrel rifle is cheaper than the arm brace and yes I also realize that people live in States where there note allowed short barrels rifles and that sucks.
I wouldn’t own any of these gadgets they cause you trouble with stupid people,, and if it sounds like a machine gun OH MY!!!! it most be one and it’s just a matter of time before another psycho-lib shoots something up with one of these devices installed then it’s another shit storm to deal with.
Sure would be a nice place if the libs were all locked up and digg’in ditches and common sense ruled instead of stupidity.
Not slamming any one that has these thing on there shooter but when you get stuck try’in to explain to some idiot with a badge that it’s legal ???? “shaking my head” they are just that stupid, It just makes for a crappy rest of your day.
They’re, there, and their. So you don’t sound like an illiterate MORON and your opinions make it beyond first impression. (Notice it wasn’t “you’re” either……geeesh!)
Thanks for the English lesson, Dave I can promise you, genius, we can clearly see who the real moron is here…and you probably voted for Obama. Troll
Gotta love it when someone like you attempts to defend illiteracy by calling someone more educated than yourself stupid.
I sent my money in when the 3rd edition became available. First week
of October. Was tolditwouldbe 8 to 10 weeks delivery. Guess it might take awhile longer, don’t know. Hope it doesn’t take as long as my suppressor took. Eleven months plus one week.
What a handy little drop-in. I’m buying one to check it out, then perhaps I’ll get one for each of my ARs.
Honestly this just looks fun. To go from “pew” to “pew pew pew pew” and do it legally would be a good way to blow off some steam. I’m pretty sure some of my customers would agree. An afternoon well spent.
WOW! I can’t believe some of the negative stuff I’ve read here. Seriously people, what is your problem? This trigger is nothing more than a tool – same as a firearm. It simply provides an additional capability – double tap – just a little faster than a standard semi trigger. You install it, you train and practice with it. Basic gun safety states you don’t point a weapon at anything you’re not willing to destroy – this trigger doesn’t change that. As a retired state trooper I can honestly say the fact that this exists doesn’t bother me in the least. I heard the same crap I’m hearing here when AZ legalized concealed carry from my fellow cops – blood will be running through the streets, only cops should have guns, gunfights will be erupting everywhere, kaos will reign. Guess what? None of that happened. In fact, quite the opposite. If I unknowingly came up against someone with a standard AR, I’m already in deep shit and outgunned. Those of you griping about the anti’s and the ATF ought to worry about gun rights period, not this thing. Personally, I don’t understand what all the fuss is about – you are aware a decent machinist can easily manufacture a full-auto AR right? A sear is just a piece of metal, a spring and a pin placed in the right spot. We now have AR “pistols”, do those frighten you as well? If ATF bans this thing it gets banned, so what? Get a grip folks and stay on track with keeping our gun rights – this trigger isn’t a threat – criminals and now terrorists are the threat. Place your focus there. Criminals and terrorists already have easy access to full auto weapons because they know how to convert them or simply smuggle them, I really don’t think they’re going to get all excited about this trigger. If you don’t like this trigger then don’t buy one. Simple.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Not to mention, if you’re on binary mode you’ve already committed to this mode of operation. Guess why happens on my NFA M16 when it’s on FA – it keeps firing too. Oh, the horror!
You mean you’re not terrified of ATF finding out you’re wasting ammo while shooting you’re legally owned gimmick and you haven’t killed everyone on the range due to stupidity while the gun grabbers are looking for people just like you? Oh the horror indeed… I don’t know how you can live with yourself.
Right On Russ H.
Focusing on the wrong part of the subject will eventually cause people to loose some of their rights. Even better focus on the fact that all gun laws are illegal according to the 1803 Supreme Court ruling that any law repugnant and does not agree with the Constitution is Null and Void. Focus on that with the ATF and see them squirm. Semper Fi
Another over priced needless gimmick, to burn out your barrel inna shorter length of time.
You stick to your bench-rest shooting; I’ll enjoy my new full-auto toys which cost $20,000 less than an M16. Plenty of AR barrels out there if I need to replace mine. You know you want one or you wouldn’t even be reading this – buy it while you still can.
These neat little packages ” Of Pure Fun ” should be in every Good Boy or Girls Christmas Stocking ! Let’s face it ,,, flip the fun switch is ,,,,well ,, just fun !
The word “needless” is the operative word… I do not “need” all of the 7 pistols I own. I do not “need” all 20 rifles I own. But I “want” all of them. I have one Gen 3 trigger on a Ruger SR556, the perfect combo. Gas operated with a chrome lined barrel and chrome bolt….Shooting is fun and enjoyable, the Binary trigger is more fun and more enjoyable.. If SHTF it will ride with me, along with a 60 round mag….
It took me 5 minutes to find your comment! I was specifically looking to see if anyone had installed a Franklin Armory BFS III on a Ruger SR-556! I found it! And I found your comment, a man after my own heart. Now that I know it works well, I’m installing it today and this will be my 5th Franklin Armory BFS III trigger install and I love them!!! Do you remember which springs you used for the hammer, trigger, and the buffer spring along with which buffer rod weight to perfectly time our awesome Ruger SR-556s??? If you remember which springs you used, it could save me quite a bit of time spent in perfect timing the system trying out all the different spring options and buffer rod weight options. I’m guessing an H3 weight? But just a guess. So if you can hook me up with the proper BFS III configuration for our Ruger SR-556, I would greatly appreciate it!!1 Thanks a million and I can’t wait. The default triggers on the Ruger SR-556s are terrible anyway and the one thing that must go, so I just happen to have an extra BFS III trigger system sitting here ….. 🙂
Hey Will! Just like you I came here looking for answers for my SR-556. I have new Franklin waiting to go in right now. So did you fine tune yours? If so, what’s the recipe? Anything that will help me save on spent ammo is a blessing.
oh, and at least a couple of 60 round mages if not those nice metal 80 round mages. A couple of drum mags might just be overkill. hehe
I did manage to get a Gen 2 for my Spikes Jack lower. I had to file down the rings all the way on the bottom of the pack so it fit properly. Never a regret. The Gen 3s are really not available yet. A few Gen 2s on GB.
The sweetest thing is that Trump got elected.
Is there anything similer for a SKS.
I am certain it would be on a demand basis. Get enough SKS lovers out there to warrant research and development and I’m sure they’d build it. Have your friends contact the factory and start a movement!
Please make this for the kriss vector because nothing would make me happier than throwing 45 out like confetti!!
Sign me up, Hell I will buy one in a heart beat, LOVE IT, I have an FFL and in the process of building my business for retirement.
This is the funniest (and somewhat silly) thread of comments I’ve seen in a long time. First off, REALLY SIMPLE… if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. If you think “others” will have a catastrophic NEGLIGENT discharge, go to your local range and watch the Yahoos with any firearm! And guys (and ladies, if I missed any of y’all), can we please stop bashing one another. We have a hard enough time dealing with the Libby’s who do want to take away our rights and what kills me is I see more bashing, one upping of hunters, shooters, etc., not by the antis but, by fellow sportsman/hunters, shooters, and firearm enthusiast. WHAT THE HECK! We’re on the same side or, at least supposed to be.
Amen brother,,,,, AMEN!!!
Why exactly are you posting information about a product (BFS Gen2) that is discontinued? Franklin released there Gen3 This July2016. I would very much like to see more information on a this new product. Most of you folks posting negative comments on this trigger are not giving it the fair thought it deserves. The value and function this trigger it well deserves. 3Gun shooters will definitely benefit from the double tap function this trigger offers. The Gen 2 trigger presented here did have some issues with what many called hammer follow. The newerGen3 has apparently addressed this issue. Therefor tactically this trigger offers an excellent advantage over conventional triggers. This is not a machine gun and is clearly not presented as one.The ATF would never approve it if it was( thanks NFA).
We have the GEN III on its way, so please stay tuned…
The Gen 2 has been discontinues and they have been selling for only $350. Good deal. A little work to install.
The Gen 3 ($430) which is still not available yet as they are trying to find a spring for the buffer to slow it down. The Echo Trigger is ($460) taking down payments and won’t be out now till December maybe?
A few months ago I was “polishing” the trigger parts (disconnect to be exact) on my AR-10 and found myself with the exact same scenario. Pull- Fire…release-fire again. I threw the “polished” disconnect away and put in a new one. I wanted no part of such an abomination.
That’s fine, I’ll pay $500 to have a part of this “abomination” in a .223; don’t know if I’d like it in an AR10. It makes me all giddy just thinking about what some of my anti-gun friends will think of my new binary/echo triggers. Ha ha ha ha!!!
don’t think i could handle this.
Bought a used trap shotgun with release trigger, didn’t like it at all, had it removed, Just felt dangerous to me. Other liked them but that’s their choice.
Release triggers have been around for decades, used mostly by Trap shooters to rid themselves of the “yips”, flinch, or what ever term you want to use. The process of pulling the trigger, then calling “Pull” for your claybird, then releasing the trigger at the right time, eliminates the bad stuff that happens when you are under pressure due to match stress, or anticipating muzzle blast and recoil. Release triggers have been used to cure this problem. At a Trap shoot, some clubs mandate that guns equipped with release triggers be labeled in some way in case someone picks up your gun by mistake. If there is an interruption in the round of trap and you have all ready pulled the trigger, you open your O/U shotgun by pushing the lever. If pump, pull back on the slide, semi-auto, open the bolt. Won’t comment on the merits of the BFS other than the author looked like upon his trigger release, he was all-over-the-place. Some amount of practice will be needed to place the second shot accurately. Or you can just blast away. Whatever!
From reading a lot of these comments it seems that if I don’t believe this to be anything I would even consider putting on my own gun I must then be an Anti-lover surrendering my freedom? Guess it’s a good thing then that I don’t give many opinions much weight. I’ll spend the money saved from this bad idea on another case of ammo, and be better off for it.
People seem to be getting ever more ingenious in devising new ways to waste ammunition. I agree wholeheartedly that such a trigger installed on your rifle would be a sure way to spend the next several decades in prison bent over a laundry cart and everything you own either confiscated or eaten up in legal fees. Thanx for the offer, but no thanx.
Release triggers have been around a long time especially with Trap shooting. They are NOT a good idea in opinion. Unless the shooter is highly trained in their use.
Just drink more Red Bull and your finger twitching should help the cyclic rate of fire just by itself 😂…..What they really need to do is repeal that anti constitutional Hughes Amendment on NFA weapons so the prices would become more realistic . New NFA guns would be so much cheaper then .
It’s maddening how hard it has been to get Hughes revisited. Especially since the video surfaced showing corrupt speaker Charlie Rangel “passed” it even though it was voted down.
I have been shooting, hunting and engaged in shooting competition now for 54 years non-stop. I have seen so many morons at our range over the last 5 decades that if I had a penny for every nincompoop that made stupid safety mistakes I would be a millionaire. This device is the most unsafe and stupid “latest and greatest” moronic toy every to hit the market. It is completely useless even if operated by a trained professional let alone placed in the hands of the average weekend warrior Arm Chair Commando. If you want a full auto first rent one and then when you see how difficult they are to control and hit anything with even at close range you will appreciate the semi-auto you probably already own. Even in Nam at the height of the war when bullets were flying everywhere the average grunt set his gun on semi-auto. Real full auto was only used in very desperate point blank situations and it ate up ammo so fast the people using it usually died with an empty gun in their hands.
I agree with the people who have already posted how this device is exactly what the anti-gun news media has been waiting for. They would have a field day with the first fatality resulting from this asinine device and believe me there will be lots of fatalities and lawsuits to follow. I wonder if this company even realizes what they are getting themselves into. If it had any real use I would be all for it providing it was safe to use as well. It is neither and lets not bull crap anyone about the safety issue either. As I said before after 54 years of range experience, hunting experience and competitive shooting I shutter at the thought of this device in the hands of “Joe Six Pack” and his band of “Weekend Commandoes”.
I am also willing to bet we are all arguing and shouting for absolutely nothing as the ATF can and will outlaw it through another 8AM regulation made into law by 5 PM just as they have done to many guns in the past. Remember the Street Sweeper and the Spas Shotguns. There was nothing unsafe about these guns and they had a legitimate use as well but the ATF did not like them so they banned them without legislation and the same thing will happen with this device only this time the ATF will actually be doing gun owners a favor. Lets hope they do it before the News Media gets to sensationalize a string of accidental killings with this device or God forbid deliberate attacks on our Police with this device. Boy would the News Media run with that story. With Hitlery in power that would be all she would need to end ownership of all semi-auto weapons, pistols, shotguns and rifles. Turn them in by sun down by throwing them in piles out into the streets for the front end loaders to scoop up “Or Else” as the German Nazi’s used to tell the people in occupied countries and every one knew what “Or Else” meant in no uncertain terms. Hitlery believes the death of one gun owner would be a tragedy, but the death of 100 million gun owners would be only a statistic and she cannot wait for that to happen which would be cheered on by the rabid Stalinist anti-gun News Media.
You talk about “Grunts” in Vietnam not using full auto because of poor accuracy and yet you are worried about attacking the Police with this device installed. Those two don’t mesh together very well, and I’m curious were you a Grunt in Nam or did someone just tell you that. I was there 68-69 but damn if I can remember anyone talking about using or not using full auto. Most soldiers get a lot of trigger time in war and are fairly adept at short burst even in full auto mode.
I had a selector switch on my M14.When in auto 5 round burst were effective.Anything more was un controllable.May have saved my butt on accassion.Vietnam 65-66
I say lets just allow anyone who is legally allowed to purchase a firearm to be able to purchase full auto weapons, the same type as many police departments have. What is good enough for a police officer to use is good enough for those they are “sworn” to protect. And before you nay-Sayes chime in do some research and find out that many police/sheriff departments do have full auto weapons and not just their SWAT teams.
Having fired a number of full auto weapons in my life I just cannot see the use for in the civilian world other than what is good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander. My take is that this is just all semantics. Other than just going out once and a while to fire sonnet hung in full auto I do not see what the hoopla is about concerning full auto weapons. Just what is one shooting at in full auto? I certainly cannot envision one doing much 100 yard or greater range accuracy shooting.
So in closing I will say this other than being a novelty item, I see no use for this item, I can also see the anti gunners using this as more fodder for their side. To me as had been previously stated this item is dangerous and I know for myself I cannot envision wanting to go through the return to single shot mode. I mean what am I shooting at to use this feature where I fire one shot and then decide not I do not want to fire a second shot. So now I hold the trigger down, flip the selector. And in effect making my gun useless now unless a recycle the bolt first.
Cisco Kidd I agree with your comments and for Ernest lipps I have to ask just what you cannot understand about this device being used against the police. Since when did shooting at police become a sport? As to your comments about using burst mode while in full auto mode? Just when not trying to save ones bacon in a combat environment, just where and what is one shooting at in a civilian use scenario. Other than shooting in full auto as a one time fun event to see what is like, just what is the use for this item?
I was point man for 9 months in Viet Nam and I also reverted to semi auto 3 round burst but when in an ambush situation I had one AK 47 30 round clip a farmer made for me I just let go all 30 in full auto to get back to the main element where I then reverted back to semi auto again.
It was a good wall of lead I put out initially but only because I had to as I hit the ground.I carried my M16A1 in my right arm with my left hand on top of the forarm to account for the rise of the barrel as I fired.
Full auto can be very useful if handled correctly.
Spot on John, and what is Cisco plan on doing when Hillary(God forbid) say’s turn em in? I know I want one that will keep their heads down and one to do the work. And say what is all of this about ye na sayers on this sight? Do you have any idea what the powers that should not be are going to do once they have what they think is enough of our arms? Oh bury I here ya say right, what good is that going to do. Geez I might as well walk down to the P.D. and give up all of my property right now, and say sig heil to the N.W.O.
Well apparently you were wrong. Your argument becomes null and void.
Have not read or heard about any accidents using this trigger system as of this date . And It’s Still FUN…to Flip that Fun Switch !
Best new gadget I have ever seen. Great idea. The better armed the American citizens, the less likely of an untimely attack from some “unknown” direction.
Oh, the direction is known. The source is coming from the Federal Reserve and IMF. The enemy does not need to have guns to cause destruction through cruption.
So keep it up and everything out there will be outlawed ! Sorry ,but nobody needs this crap..Nothing but ammo for the antis..and it is very dangerous
Sounds like you and Hilary should be friends!!! Perhaps you should unsubscribe.
I’m going to go buy one just because you say I don’t need it. because if they say you don’t need one buy 2.
p.s. hi Campbell
Seeing these comments concerns me let’s try considering this to be a car instead of a gun people every day take some cars and modify them for racing or some other kind of activity they were never really intended for so why should we be criticizing our own over this eventually this type of thinking leads to division which in turn leads to loss of not just one but all
We are being chipped away at slowly
Old adage but a frog into a boiling pot of water he will jump out but put him in a pot of cold water and turn on the fire and he will boil to death and never ever think for one second it’s to late
That was an incredibly strangely worded comment. Sorry. No offense meant but who in hell boils frogs? And how does that factor into rate of fire, or more importantly, control of your weapon, situation, and certainly background (collateral damage/casualties. what’s behind your target?.) By the way frog legs are awesome but boiling them would be a sin! Especially if they’re still attached to the frog! : Peanut oil, Cayenne, Garlic, Onion, Sea Salt= Your smiling
The illustration about boiling frogs comes from science where the example is given (and, reportedly tested) that if you place a frog in cold water and slowly heat the water until it boils the frog will remain in the water until it dies. It does not mind or cannot detect the slow change in temperature and recognize the danger until it is too late and the animal dies. It’s not a recipe, it’s just (reportedly) scientific fact about the creature (I remember this from high school biology). He’s using this as an analogy of how our gun rights are being taken from us. The frog isn’t dropped into boiling water, if it were, it would escape. Our gun rights are not being taken entirely in one day or one bill or one law, they are being taken in small increments which, on the surface, may seem logical and even rational, but the endgame is we lose all gun rights, just as the frog tolerates minor increases in temperature until it simply dies.
I will gladly give my life to protect our gun rights.If any of us play their game we will be dead forsure.Hitler took the guns away for the safety and good of the people.Then he opened fire on citizens at random.That is what this out of control government wants to do to us.Hitlery will do it.I will stand tall with my veteran comrads and show them what fighting is all about.We may even be out numbered,but they won’t like it.Together we can take our country back.Divided we will fail.Look up agenda 21 on google.Get your head out of your assets.Check out the One world order.We must get out of the UN.
But back to the trigger. I don’t care what anyone else has so long as it’s not pointed at me. But, for my purposes, I’m just not a fan of burning through expensive ammo and the expensive barrels it travels through!
I would suggest a simple dusting of flour after salt/ spicing & fry in butter as the tastiest way to do frog legs.
Mmmmmmmm frog legs.. HA HA
If a regular trigger can give you 60-70 rounds per minute, then this device will double that to 120-140 rounds per minute. My full auto guns run 350 – 750 rounds per minute. No comparison.
How slow is your trigger finger? 60 rounds a minute. A 3 round burst in less than one second is easy with even a mil spec trigger.
This seems to be a solution that needs a problem. Does it enhance your ability to place a round on target? Nope as it fits into the spray and pray category. Which is superior in a self defense situation; making a lot of noise or dropping someone every time you shoot? Are you going to shoot at a crowd or a single target?
If you want this type of legal firepower, check out the Tac Con 3MR trigger for $350. It does this without the rear travel bs, and costs less w/ no fitting required. Tacconusa.com
the Tac Con 3MR is not like this one, Tac Con 3MR only shorten’s the re-set for next shot where BFS actually shoots a second round on release of the trigger. Tac Con 3MR is still semi-auto with short re-set, one pull & release, one round fired. BFS, one pull one round fired, release of same trigger pull, second round fired. two different systems.
after seeing the Tac Con 3MR system in action in the video, don’t see any difference in rate of fire. with the BFS, clear difference in speed of rate of fire.
now do i want either of these no, not my thing. one doesn’t do anything for rate of fire and the other makes for a way less safe firearm. i can already see someone pulling the trigger on this thing and turning to talk to his buddy and release said trigger and bang. now you say well person should practice good firearms safely, true but lets face it some just don’t think.
your brain has already, if you been around firearms, been trained to think, one pull, one bang. since we were little kids. so to now throw in that you have to remember, pull-bang, release-bang and that’s if you remember that your in this mod. when shooting.
hey, people like a lot of new things i like what i’ve done most of my life, keep things simple.
I can’t conceive of any situation where this trigger would be at all useful in a self defense situation. It’s all well and good to say one should keep the trigger depressed while rotating the safety but asking someone to do that in a gunfight when there’s no need to fire the second round with a trigger release is either the height of stupidity or extreme wishful thinking. Unlike many Tactical Timmys, I’ve seen for myself what happens in real life deadly force situations. The individual capable of preventing a second shot with this trigger in such a high stress situation may exist somewhere but I’ve never met him.
I’m sure to read at least a few, “Well, I train regularly and I KNOW I can do it!”, comments but I’ve two simple questions for those responding in that fashion. First, how many gunfights have you been in? I doubt many can truthfully claim to have been in even one gunfight. Second, does often does your training include something like running flat out for two hundred yards so your heart is pounding as you are panting for breath and then drawing/raising a firearm to deliver at least four ACCURATE shots at different targets while someone is screaming in your ear which targets to take? Unless your training includes something like that, something designed to add both physical and mental stress, you aren’t “training”. You are playing.
Finally, modifications like this one are designed with just one objective- to skirt the rules. Skirting any rule invariably results in a rewriting of the rule. Thanks a lot, Franklin Armory. You’ve managed to produce a useless product that gives the gun control crowd another reason to ban those scary black rifles..
I have no problem with “skirting the rules” as you put it; in fact I hope the rules get rewritten, pre-GCA 1968 would be an acceptable compromise position. But you are absolutely right about the difficulty manipulating that selector under stress; that’s an accidental shooting waiting to happen. Furthermore, putting the selector to “safe” after firing a single shot in a real life situation, and having the rifle go to an “uncocked” condition, not ready for a second shot, is a grave tactical flaw in engineering.
I agree, I don’t see how this is needed or would every decide the between life and death. However, I don’t see anything scarey about those black guns. The ignorant chose to be scared. If one is not into guns, then that is their choice. At least take the time to educate yourself before jumping on a bandwagon protesting something that you are without knowledge of. I’m sure this product will be attractive to the gun haters society. It may be a toy or form of entertainment for some. Before you jump off the deep end, I know that a gun can be used as a deadly weapon. But, if used properly it can also be a lot of enjoyment. The second amendment gives us (citizens of the USA) the right to have and keep our guns, whether the whiners like it or not. It’s possible they may try to write a new law to ban this product. But if we the citizens of this country don’t stick together and stand up for our rights, we will find ourselves in a society similar to that of a communist. November may very well decide that. This politically correct or don’t hurt my feelings generation of people (in my opinion), is a huge part of this country’s problem. An immigrant more especially an illegal immigrant has NO right coming to my country expecting me to change for them! If they don’t like it here then they can keep themselves where they were. I’m drifting and I do apologize. Bottom line, if you like it buy it.
I am embarrassed by so many of the posts on this in this thread by people who claim to be part of the firearms community. You’re worried about what some people might think? Appearances are what concern you? You are worried about upsetting your slave masters at the Federal Government with this device? What has your sense of reasonableness brought you This mentality of appearing “reasonable” has brought America to the point of near extinction. There is a very real possibility we will see the fire of liberty extinguished if the progressive left institutes the “Australian Style” gun laws a.k.a confiscation they have been promoting. Our sitting president and very likely our next president have come right out and told us that this is what they plan to do. Hillary has been given the power of an old world monarch as the people have publicly watched their own governments buckle under the weight of it’s own vast corruption when the FBI chose to ignore the laws that are applied to every other American. We are witnessing the collapse of our Republican form of government right in front of our eyes. She does not even attempt to hide her transgressions anymore. She, just as we all have, watched the current administration operate with contempt and disregard for the rule of law. She learned from this presidents ability to use race as a way to paralyze the media and opposition from attacking him on a multitude of impeachable offenses. She has learned she will be able to do the same, but instead of race as the scapegoat, it will be her sex. The betrayal of the American people by the media as they looked the other way ignoring scandal after scandal has given her the blueprints on how to use political correctness as a weapon allowing her to become the most corrupt individual to ever seek the office. And, that is a tall order. Do you think she gives a damn about any of us and our rights? She only cares about POWER and MONEY. She knows all too well how to remove the only check that is left to us on restraining federal power as she aims to disarm the people. The states have rolled over, exposed their bellies and allowed their throats to be slit long ago. The corruption runs deep. It runs throughout both the Federal governments as well as the states. The states have significant authority and power over the Federal Gov’t, yet they refuse to act in order to push back on the Federal leviathan WE ARE IT PEOPLE! We are the last line of defense. I know, some of you have stopped reading so you can go and find your safe space, but if you are still reading and if you have any trace of patriotism left in your weakened states of mind, dust yourselves off. It’s time to remind yourself what it means to be an American! Spend some time reading old books written by the founding fathers in THEIR words and not some history book written with a political slant that tells you what you are supposed to think. Don’t take someone else’s interpretation of what the founder’s meant, learn it for yourself. It IS TIME to reclaim our liberty and restore the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution. The next time you hear a friend tell you that, “no right is absolute”. It is your duty to re-educate them. The Bill of Rights are “Natural Rights”. These rights are not derived from men, these are “in-alienable rights! In other words, the government did not give us these rights and therefore they have no authority to govern them or take them away. This IS NOT my interpretation. Pick a founder, any founder. They ALL understood this to be the case. However, they also knew that the only way our republic would survive as they envisioned is if we remained a strong and moral people. Quit feeling defeated. Quit negotiating away your freedoms under the guise of appearing “reasonable”. As President Reagan said, “Freedom is only one generation away from extinction”! Now, I ask you. Will you allow your posterity the same future the founders gave to us, or will you allow American to fall completely under despotism while you watch?
Awesome. No punches pulled.
Im sure I am older than this editor but he speaks the truth but you can’t put all the blame on electid officials look at your self you electid these people, today citizens beleive the things thay are told because thay have never had to fight for our freedoms while seeing blood & guts, it has all been handed to them, I did not follow Ronnie but he was right about loosing your freedom except it wont take as long as he said it can happen in one election. Please think real hard about all of this before you vote! and to the person that wrote the artical I am commenting on, keep it up.
Great job, well said.
Tools for Liberty: That’s exactly right. Listen up people, this is America, not Australia. In this world there are few things worth living and dying for. This is one of them. Either that, or you are not an American. Period. Nobody has the right to take your ability for self protection/survival from you, the law abiding American citizen. Not the Government, not other counties, not the states. Nobody has that right, nobody. Remember the “cold dead hands!” We must remain faithful to our beliefs and fight, fight, fight or else all has been for naught.
Amen Brother! Continue to speak the truth.
Yes and amen. I agree with you totally brother. People should reread this and take it to heart. You sir have read the writing on the wall.
Well put. You read the writing on the wall and I am posting it on my wall.
Freedom was given to us by God.Noone has the power to take that away.Lock and load.Expect the unexpected and keep your powder dry.You will need it.
NEVER have read it in print any better except for OUR Constitution itself. Most excellent. If WE don’t/won’t do it, prepare to face the generation(s) that come AFTER you. they’ll expect an explanation! Which side are you on, a Patriot or a part of the sheeple’?
I think as a 3 gun competitor this could be really a really neat item getting those double taps on cardboard. Now from a hunting and plinking point I think it is just another fun addition that I probably wouldn’t use. But overall I think it could have a place it’s just a matter of how it is regulated and what they will do with it. Hopefuly people are responsible enough to realize that this is part of a firearm and with all firearm upgrades and accessories you must practice and be carefull with it until you are familiarised with it enough.
I think the issue for the Binary Trigger is:Is It Safe? I have to think back to my days of trap shooting where some shooters used release triggers to help over come flinch problems and create a smooth release to prevent disturbing the site picture. These release triggers can work great for some people and for someone experienced in their use, safe. But, for the inexperienced unaccustomed to its working, “accidental discharges” do happen. I witnessed a seasoned shooter during a trap shoot, discharge his shotgun prior to the clay bird leaving the trap house, from what I would imagine was a only a moment of distraction. Now think of someone that may hold that second shot with the Binary Trigger for what ever reason, then relaxing the trigger finger afterwards while distracted. I see a major safety issue with use of this trigger when used my many different people of varying degrees of experience with firearms.
It is also a disservice to all shooters to dismiss the people as trolls raising questions on the wisdom of placing the Binary Trigger into the hands of people that may or may not be trained, or responsible. The Left will use any bad press from misuse of firearms to further their goals to restrict firearms to civilians, especially the “Evil” assault gun we know as the AR-15.
I think the AR 15 is a BB gun compared to the M14.It would not penetrate the windshield of a 6 by.Don’t be behind that windshield if the 14 is pointed at it.
There was a shim out years ago that did the same thing. All you need is to make a loop out of thin material (flat spring stock is perfect) and shove it under the nose of the disconnector. However, even though it is legal, it can be dangerous. You fire once when you pull the trigger and one more time when you let the trigger go to reset itself. You have to be aware every time you fire that when you let go of the trigger it will fire again.
I live in a state that has no restrictions on NFA items and I have some. I don’t have any problems with people owning NFA toys. That being said I think this thing is a useless gimmick. The learning curve on this thing would be a big draw back. Until you became proficient with it I think it could be a safety issue for some people. I think the bump fire stock is a far better option for those that want such things. It’s been my observation that with the exception of squad automatic rifles and sub guns most people loose their interest in firing full auto rather quickly. A few days at the range and the alure is gone. I think most people buying this product will end up with buyers remorse. But hey folks say that about my toys too. So if you want one have at it.
Why in hell would anyone want this?? And why give the ATF more reason to go after gun owners. No manner what the user says about safety I see some real safety issues with user brain farts on this system… Just more ammo for the gun control crowds. Why in hell do we keep wanting to be our own worst enemy?
Cowering in fear of the ATF has really worked out well for us. Let’s stick with slingshots so they don’t look our way.
Why produce a product that increases the likelihood that some adult kid who loves to spray lead will have an accident – oh I get it, money! This product has the potential to become the new poster child for anti-gunners. When someone turns the barrel away from the target and is surprised by the additional round that is now heading in an unintentional direction, and if that round hits, or ricochets into an unintended live target, you will have additional politicians jumping on the “we need to do something about these assault rifles” bandwagon!
I gotta side with Joe on this one.
GO JOE !! I’m with Joe too… even if he isn’t a plumber
if people like larry cant figure out how to use it safely, or are afraid of it, they don’t have to get it.
but quit assuming that just because you cant be safe or have a need for it, that nobody can or does. You don’t know everyone’s skill level or environment whether current or preparing for future possibilities.
you are just as free not to buy it as we should be free to buy it if we want or need it. it’s freedoms like this that keep getting chipped away by the left on one side and the let’s not do anything to upset the left people like larry and others, they never stand up to the left and the left walks all over them.
just because you see no use for it, don’t assume there isn’t one. Maybe your just to stupid to think up a scenario where it would come in handy. I can think of a few scenarios where this would be useful. and I could and would train myself to use it effectively just as I do with every weapon I own.
If we had a good law biding government it would be easier to do things a little different.Notice I said a little different.But a corrupt law breaking out of control Federal government changes all rules.Do what you think is best to save your hide and to hell with their BS.I have no laws when it comes to protecting my family.
People such as you (shaking like a leaf, cowering before the government) are precisely what we in the gun rights movement do not need.
My thoughts exactly.
Since when is it up to the ATF to interpret the law? Do we now have a fourth branch?
That’s an evil byproduct of our “representative” democracy. The elected officials we have been delegating the authority to have been delegating it to unelected, Leftists and Progressives in all the alphabet soup gov’t agencies.
A very similar (as far as the outcome) modification used to be made to 1911s. One shot fired with the trigger pull, a second fired by the recoil. Problem was, the second shot was not “aimed” since the 1st shot moved the barrel position. Worked fine until one day at a rifle range in Texas, the 2nd shot went into a nearby building killing some kid scoring a pistol match. They did fix the problem, by redesign of the range, but that did not change the unaimed 2nd shot. Of course an experienced rifleman can compensate for this, so it should only be used by experienced riflemen, not anyone else.
First let me say I don’t believe the government has any right placing restrictions of any kind on the 2nd amendment. Having qualified this short response let me add that this modification is a solution in search of a problem. For what possible reason would you want a firearm that fires upon a pull of the trigger and again on the release of that trigger?
Second let’s consider the state of America today. There is considerable, although a minority, desire to completely control all firearms in this country to the point of confiscation. This is the misguided, liberal belief that if law abiding citizens don’t have access or own firearms then we will all be safe from mass shootings or even individual murders. But why would any of us who believe in the 2nd amendment want to add fuel to the fire to a liberal mass media that already labels semi-automatic weapons as “automatic”. This is just one step closer to confirming their supposition and raising the clamor once again for confiscation. Take this thing off the market and stick it in a closet somewhere, although with this article and Franklin Armory’s publicity machine I’m sure it’s too late and we can now expect a flurry of articles and TV talking heads once again using this information to label all AR weapons as “automatic” and of course posing the question of “for what reason would you need this?”
In a search for profits Franklin Armory is doing more harm to the 2nd amendment cause than they could possibly imagine. It’s stupid and any weapon so equipped is dangerous even to those who own it.
You are arguably correct, but correct nonetheless.
I’m with you.
I agree with you,we don’t need this.
Ram6 you blame Franklin armory of harming the 2a while seeking a profit? I blame people like you and a corrupt government. My whimpy fellow Americans discuss me. You blame the people dancing around illegal laws and regulations and not those corrupt politicians and law enforcement officers who blatantly violate the 2a. You sound like those wise people who say I’m asking for trouble and endangering myself and others by being armed and being able to defend myself.
I cant believe the amount of gun control trolls that are invading this article. The same trolls that would pay anything for a pre 1986 auto rifle if they could find one at a low price. Again, the gun is not the problem auto or not. If you are a law abiding citizen, know how to handle your guns and mean no harm to anyone , then all this scare tactic bullshit straigh from the Hillary campaign is not necesary here. If you are afraid then give your guns away and dont shot anymore ever. Also renounce to the 2A and to the 1A on your way home. The leftards in this country will take ANYTHING as fodder. Allowing them to control what we can buy is only conceding to fear and to their ridiculous agenda. All auto weapons should be legal, and the illegal federal government should be abolished. There is not one iota of anything that the so called federal government does right, beside taking our tax money to protect special interests. Not having the hability to buy something like this is the same as saying that you can buy a sport car but can not go futher than 30 MPH because there have been alcoholics killing people with their cars. Im going to think this are trolls, as I have seen more and more in this website lately and not real 2A loving Americans. Otherwise I would have to think that the mass mind control propaganda agenda is working just like the leftards want.
Noticed that from a prior articles here also. There are a percentage of firearm owners who support limiting their rights! Heck, I know a couple myself. Lunacy!
Clear, concise, accurate.
Well said, good job.
over priced useless toy , just like a suppressor…….
Free American men, spending their disposable income on fun toys? The horror…. Next thing you know they’ll be buying $20,000 bass boats and remote control airplanes and beer.
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my beer to be manually controlled. 🙂
I would only lose the remote for my beer, but I would like to see full auto beer.
Hahaha That’s a good one Duray:) Funny but, spot on too! Good stuff man.
Look y’all… Most of us work our butts off just to get by, on occasion we make enough to save up and buy something nice for ourselves. If it makes ya happy and doesn’t affect me negatively…BUY IT AND ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Floyd, you are obviously a troll. Why would you throw suppressors under the bus? Don’t want one? Don’t buy one. You wouldn’t pass the background check anyway. But suppressors are good kit.
Speaking of suppressors, why are we the people allowing the ATF such long processing times?
Damn right they are Bobby! Quick story for Floyd the troll…while out at some priv. property shooting last summer. I had my suppressors on. A 308, 9mm and a 5.56. There is a local kid who rides dirt bike out there. I stopped and told him it was my turn like usual so he knew to stay clear for an hour.. What’s he do?? Rides his bike out there anyway. There’s a gulley he rides that leads onto the range. You can’t see somebody coming in it till they are nearly in front of the target area. Due to me not wearing ear pro thanks to my suppressors I heard him coming and ceased fire. Might very well have saved his 10 yr old little butt. Didn’t save his butt from his Grandfather he lives with though when I took him strait home and handed him to Gramps. The boy will listen now…suppressors save hearing and can save lives.
Oh Great………………………Coming Soon to a Theater Near You
Remember, the BATF approved shouldering the Sig Arm Brace on AR15 pistols. How long did that last ?
As others have related, this alteration is a potential safety disaster. Just as changing from an AR to an AK platform requires
considerable practice to operate the platform smoothly and safely, this alteration would require constant vigilance to prevent
accidental discharge. How many have the time and dedication to assure you will not accidentally fire this weapon. If one has
several AR platforms and one is equiped with this trigger, what is the likelihood that one would ALWAYS REMEMBER which
weapon you were shooting.
I have written to several News agencies in the past few months fervently attempting to convince them to forgo using the term
Assault Weapon for a civilian AR rifle. I have accurately outlined how civilian AR platforms are different from Military
Assault Weapons and that civilians can not purchase them from gun stores. A trigger that emulates a full auto weapon merely adds fuel to the fire to ban AR platforms. You, I and John Q Public are fine with semi auto weapons. I watched Jerry Miculek
fire a semi auto AK against a full auto variety . Discharging a full mag, he was only hundreds of a second slower. If you want
to fire safely and competently, practice like Jerry. Don’t give the liberal media another toolmto ise against lawful gun owners.
Finally, a gun without bullets is just a club. If , God forbid , Americans are faced with defending the Constitution and the
Homeland, ammunition will be the limiting factor. Military establish supply lines to refurbish ammo stores. Civilians do not
have that option. If all hell broke loose tomorrow, you would be forced to defend yourself for the foreseeable future with the
ammo you already have. No more trips to the store, no more mail order. Each bullet would be precious. So practice, make each
shot count. Rapid fire would deplete your ammo stores rapidly. Take each shot as if it was your last bullet.
That’s what the BIG RED STICKER IS FOR!!!!! Only a moron would click it to binary and not know what he is doing,and in that case, he should have a water pistol not a real gun…
“Shall Not Be Infringed” 4 simple easy to understand words!
That’s why we need to do away with all the infringements since the NFA, before it comes to that nightmare scenario.
If you are going to use some old letter to the editor and just copy and paste it into the article at least take the time to PROOF READ what it looks like. You pasted this reply from somewhere else, it’s easy to see because of all the breaks in the middle of sentences, new margins and various other things located where they shouldn’t be.
GEEZ if you’re going to cry about a device that you don’t like because YOU CAN’T HANDLE IT at least be man enough to use your own ORIGINAL THOUGHTS!
AS to the rest of you “SUPPOSED” GUN RIGHTS guys, YOU ARE NOT! Anyone willing to surrender EVEN A SMALL fraction of freedom for “SECURITY OR SAFETY” DESERVE NEITHER AND WILL ULTIMATELY LOSE BOTH!!!
All in all it is a matter of choice and opinion, if you want one go buy it, if you’re a “wiener” and “THINK” it’s unsafe DON’T BUY ONE but either way LEAVE THE REST OF US THE H3LL ALONE!!!
I personally am a combat Infantryman and have fired both full auto and semi. This little gadget would be an excellent home defense addition to any AR. I would much rather point my weapon at an invader and be able to fire 2 VERY, VERY quick rounds insuring he drops the FIRST TIME then to fire once and have to go looking for him!
Beware, this has happened before: The ATF initially tells the manufacturer that it’s OK to sell, waits until they’ve sold hundreds or thousands of units and then arbitrarily rules them illegal. The company then goes bankrupt so not only have you spent $399 (plus gunsmithing to get it installed) for a mod that will get you a federal felony if the ATF finds you in possession of one, but after the company goes bankrupt you won’t even be able to get a refund on the now illegal trigger, let alone on the $100 you paid the gunsmith to install it.
I couldn’t agree more than what Jaque Bauer said above – this is really dangerous and not necessary. Furthermore, like Draino said in the post above Jaque . . . I, also can empty a mag very quickly in standard Semi-Auto mode and I’m confident much more accurately!
Can’t believe supposed gun people posting wanting more gun control. If a person has the $400 to buy it why not.
Where did anyone in this thread ask for more gun control? Someone saying they don’t think it’s a good idea and is dangerous is NOT the same thing as saying they think it should be illegal.
But I’m pretty sure that if this catches on any any way, the ATF will change the ruling and make it illegal pretty quickly. I’m actually pretty amazed that they signed off on it to begin with. Whoever got that done had some juice. The ATF tends to err on the side of “no fun allowed” in making its rulings. The definition of full auto in the NFA law itself says clearly that if it “fires more than one bullet with a single press of the trigger” it’s an NFA firearm. This trigger by definition, causes more than one bullet to be fired with a single PRESS of the trigger. This trigger clearly falls under the definition of the NFA. In my opinion, it won’t be long before the ATF rules as such. They are not shy about changing their minds arbitrarily and without notice.
For the record (to short-circuit those who might be inclined to jump to conclusions and make unsupported accusations): I’m not saying that this trigger SHOULD be illegal. I think the entire NFA is unconstitutional based on the SCOTUS ruling in US v Miller (a fully automatic or select fire rifle obviously has military utility and is therefore protected by the 2nd Amendment under Miller) and should be thrown out. I’m only stating what I believe is true based on the current state of the law and what I think is likely to happen.
Definitely not NFA the trigger pull only fires one round!!! The release fires the other!! Thus even in binary mode, one round is discharged on one press of the trigger, consequently the second discharge being on the release thereof. The law states on the pull not pull and release. If you are a lawyer I would suggest going back to school. To make this illegal a law would have to be written to further infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights. Anything the ATF deems illegal is BS. Only congress has the constitutional powers to introduce and ratify a bill. Except for the Bill Of Rights, on which no one shall infringe. To do so is a violation of that Law!!!!!!!!
Saying it’s dangerous and unnecessary is one thing; saying it’s a bad idea because it offends anti gunners and the BATF is another, and that is advocating more, voluntary self imposed gun control. Furthermore, your understanding of the NFA and how it is interpreted is flawed. This device clearly falls outside of NFA purveiw. The “trigger”, which is a vague and broadly defined term, is being manipulated for each shot fired. Worst case scenario, ATF eventually makes them redesign it so the second shot is not fired under spring tensioned reset, but a completely seperate movement of the trigger finger.
The atf has written an approval letter for a ‘binary’ system for the mini 14 decades ago.
There were Mini 14’s 140 YEARS AGO???? Where, pray tell, can I find one?
I don’t think its that big of a deal. If people want to buy it, got for it. I am kind of surprised ATF signed off on it, so who knows what will happen with that…..
And this is a solution to what problem? I don’t see one. The last thing the shooting community needs is yet another rapid fire modification to the AR platform. Just more fodder for the anti-gun crowd to seize upon in their incessant condemnation of the evil black rifle and those who own them.
Richard Thank God I have a loser like you to decide that there are to many of anything out there.
I believe this is already an NFA item as it fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger..
No it is not NAF. It takes 2 way operation of trigger. It is over $400.
I imagine NY already banned this while it was on the drawing board…
NY stinks as does MA, CT, CA, MD and DC…
VA rocks when it comes to gun rights!
I suspect the BAFTE will rewrite their standing on this making it illegal in sue course ,
That is one of the problems that we have in the US. The agencies get to make up their own rules and change them at will instead only what Congress has authorized. We are giving too much power to a bunch of nameless bureaucrats and this should be changed.
I believe that everyone should have the option to purchase this mod. But I don’t think everyone should. Not something I would be interested in. I can rattle rounds off pretty quickly in semi-mode…..and likely much more accurately. I never was the spray and pray sort of guy…..but that’s just me. I don’t like wasting bullets. If I had $300+ dollars laying around with nothing better to spend it on I may buy this and put it in the gunsafe. The Govt has worse stuff than this at their disposal. They are no better than we are. Usually more corrupt…..but I digress.
It is my opinion that this is a dangerous modification to the AR style of rifle, or any other firearm. Altering the funtion of the trigger to fire on release goes against established firearms training and ones acquired muscle memory of their trigger finger. For more than a century of firearms use, triggers have always fired a weapon when pulled, and remained inactive when released. I have not used this device, or the other devices that give the shooter a “full auto” experience, but altering the funtion of the trigger to fire the weapon upon trigger release in order to double the firing rate is an accident waiting to happen. The fact that BATFE approved this modification has no bearing on the safe operation of the firearm. If the operator of a modified firearm strictly adheres to proper firearm safety rules, accidents will be minimized. But there are already too many fatal accidents involving well trained individuals using firearms convential trigger designs.
In the first place, so what? Nobody has any business having a loaded firearm pointed in a direction where a bullet could go someplace where it might hurt someone or something that he isn’t intending to hurt. And EVERY firearm is loaded and ready to go unless you personally have checked (or removed) the magazine and checked the chamber, AND have the firearm in your hands every second since you checked it. If you cleared it, then turned your back on it for 5 seconds, then, as far as you’re concerned, now it’s loaded and you need to clear it again.
I remember a friend telling me what had happened a couple days earlier. His wife, who ‘d fired semi auto pistols before, but only DA ones, wanted to take his 1911 to the range and see what it was like to shoot a .45. He couldn’t go with her, so, trying to make it simple for her, he inserted a loaded magazine, chambered a round, and put it on half cock. He told he that the gun oould not fire just yet, that she’d need to cock the hammer before it would fire, but that once the hammer was cocked it WOULD fire, so do not touch the hammer until you have the gun pointed at a target. Before inserting a mag and chamberinbg a round, he’d even demonstrated, putting the cleared gun on half cock, pulling the trigger to show that nothing would happen, then cocking the hammer and pulling it, to show her that after cocking it would fire. And he told her to use all the ammo, to just keep pulling the trigger until the slide locked back and it was out of cartridges, so that he didn’t need to worry about her having a still loaded and ready ro fire gun in her hand after maybe just a couple rounds.. An hour or so later she came home and complained that the gun woulsdn’t shoot, also claiming she had done everything he’d told her to do. He asked if she’d done anything else, thinking maybe she’d unknowingly put it on safe, but she said, “no.” Kind of exasperated, after all, how complicated is “cock the hammer then pull the trigger” he took the gun, to show her again. He saw that the magazine was removed, that it was on half cock, and asked her, “is it empty now” and she said, “yes.”
So he said, “it’s really very simple. Just cock the hammer”, which he did. “‘Then pull the trigger”, which he did. He now has a .45 caliber hole in the ceiling and the roof. (Well, not really now, he told me this when he was asking me to go over and help him make repairs.) He forgot the second rule, that says every firearm is loaded unless you personally cleared it, but, luckily, he trearted it as if it were loaded, pointing it up and in a direction where there was nothing but a couple miles of woods outside the house. Point being, if you obey the basic rules, an accidental discharge won’t hurt anyone anyway.
Plus, this is sort of like saying it’s too dangerous for someone who learned to shoot with one type firearm to handle another type. The man DID say that anyone using one of these will need to pick up a slightly different skill set. Different types of firearms already require different skill sets, some more different than others. I’d say this BSF thing, as far as different skill sets and safety is concerned, is closest to the difference between an open hammer and a closed hammer break action shotgun. With the open hammer version, you need to cock the hammer(s) before you can fire. With the closed hammer, it’s cocked as soon as you close the gun. As long as you remember which you’re using, you shouldn’t be any more likely to suffer an ccidental discharge with the closed hammer gun than you are with the open hammer one. Yes, the BSF is different, but not at all complex. The difference is not terribly great; just remember that you’ll fire a round when you release the trigger. Which, I suspect, is the rationale behind that big red selector switch label; to remind anyone picking it up that it isn’t a “normal” semi auto rifle, that it willl fire a second round on trigger release. I must say, however, that I think they’d have done better to have one of those red labels for each side. A lefty, picking up the rifle when it’s laying on its left side, is less likely to see the label and get the reminder. But the only realistic danger that I see anyway is a wasted cartridge. How could a second hole in the thing you wanted to shoot be a big problem? Is ANYONE in the habit of holding a trigger back after firing? How likely is it that anyone will ever fire a round and then point the gun elsewhere before releasing the trigger? I just can’t see that happening, and that’s the only way this thing could be dangerous..
What happens if the threat is stopped with the pull of the trigger. Do you shoot them gain just to release the trigger?
did you read the article???
article says to keep the trigger down and change the switch setting.
Many youtubers hold the trigger after firing ! I was shocked to hear a second click when watching videos only to figure out a few seconds later they were releasing it. Where such things get started, I will never understand.
I like how people think that people can be responsible gun owners but this trigger will make them irresponsible……
AND DANGEROUS you forgot DANGEROUS!