M1 Garand Sniper Variants M1C & M1D – Part 4 Garands from the Government

If you click this photo a super large version will pop up so you can see the detail of these three Garand sniper rifles. The top one is an M1C we ordered from CMP for $3,000. It came with the mounting plate for the scope installed, but had no sliding mount for the scope rings. We went it out to Griffin & Howe for a fitted mount, as they are the ones who built the M1C for the US government back in the late 40s and 50s. The second one down is an M1D from CMP that was $1,500. We only had to order that one piece scope mount that screws into the side of it. The third rifle down is a Springfield Armory commerically produced Garand from the 90s that we sent to G&H with the M1C. They installed a mount for us. The scopes are the replica M82 from GPC, the replica M84, and a real Lyman Alaskan from the 50s, respectively.

This is how the M1C mount works. The rings are held by a sliding bar that is detachable from the plate mounted to the rifle. It is an elegant system, and one used on custom hunting rifles for several generations.

We tried to buy a few different types of original Griffin & Howe mounts on Ebay and GunsAmerica to see if we could get one to fit. None worked. The mount you see on the scope is the one that was made and installed by G&H. Note the plastic Delrin Ring Reducers we had to buy from Brownells to bring the rings down from 1″ to 7/8″.

You will also find Griffin & Howe mounting plates online, but only the true Garand plate is the right one.

This is how the single piece scope mount works on the M1D. It just screws into the side with a thumb wheel.

It isn’t as quick on and off, but the M1D works great, and it is a true 7/8″ scope ring, so it works with period correct and replica scopes.

This Lyman Alaskan is the original M1C scope, and the M82 was the military version. Note the plastic reducers on both scopes.

The M82 replica from GPC worked perfectly and was easy to zero.

The M84 has flip up caps instead of screw caps. It was a little harder to adjust but worked fine zeroed at 100 yards.

Our most accurate of the group was the $3,000 M1C. Five shot groups were generally within an inch wide strung under 2 inches high.

We zeroed the guns with the Greek surplus that CMP is selling by the can, but all the accuracy testing was done with Hornady 168gr. Garand Match ammo.

The M1D shot consistently circularish groups into about 2.5 inches.

The off the rack commercial Garand performed with optics at about what the Field grade Garands produced with iron sights. It was not built to be a competition gun and didn’t perform as such. The old Lyman Alaskan had very stiff turrets and we couldn’t get it to come into point of aim, but this was close.

The M82 replica has a 3MOA post reticle and is very comfortable to shoot, even though it is only a 2.5x scope.

The M84 has a cross hair and post, so it is tough to remember which one you are zeroing to.

The cheekpieces are sold by several sellers on Ebay for $25. I have not found a formula for tying them correctly. I cut the leather for the strap holder, but the military manuals show the cheekpiece forward.

We tried to remove the M1C mount and see if it returned to the same point of impact but it didn’t, and we got this wierd flyer. It is still all within the space of a man’s chest at 100 yards, which isn’t so shabby for 1932 technology. We didn’t think to try it with the M1D.

You can get the special M1D setup with the handguard and one piece mount as a kit from Gun Parts Corp.

The M1D had a slightly better reading on the throat erosion guage at about 1 and a half. The M1C was just over 2.

Civilian Marksmanship Sales

Gun Parts Corp/Numrich Arms
M82 Replica: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1289030.htm
M84 Replica: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1049470.htm

Griffin & Howe Garand Sidemounts
http://www.griffinhowe.com/side (scroll down)

For those of you who have been following our Garands from the Government series, you probably remember back in the first article that we ordered two M1 Garand snipers rifles. They are called the M1C and the M1D, and as guns go, they are very different from each other. Both models are much more expensive than the other rifles available from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and for the collector and military enthusiast they are far more exciting than run of the mill Garands. Sniper Garands were not a big factor in World War II, but they were the dominant sniper rifle in the Korean conflict, and many soldiered well on into the 1970s, serving in Vietnam and around the world. These CMP guns were mostly made during Korea, where both the M1C and M1D were used extensively. The condition on the guns is excellent and though both of the famous Garand Snipers have been extremely rare through the years, a recent re-importation of rifles from Greece that had been on loan has provided a entirely new wave of extremely collectible and shootable guns that will be the stars of any Garand collection. This article outlines what makes the two models different and what you can expect if you decide to buy one from CMP, as well as how to make your own versions of the M1C and M1D from an M1 Garand that you already own. We also cover the optics that were used on the guns back in the day, as well as some new replicas from Gun Parts Corp.

The M1C was released in June of 1944 to supplement the venerable Model 1903A4, but very few were produced during the war. Originally called the M1E7, the M1C is the more elegant rifle of the two sniper variants, because the government actually sent these Garands out to custom gunmaker Griffin & Howe for an elegant side-mounted removable sliding scope mount. Some sources say they were sent to Winchester and that it was they that installed the Griffin & Howe mount on it, but history can be confusing. Both of these may be true. The mount for the M1C itself says Griffin & Howe on it, and it closely resembles other removable mounts that G&H made for just about every sporting rifle of the era, and that they still make today. If you bought a custom hunting rifle before 1980, there is a good chance that it came with a Griffin & Howe removable scope mount, and this was the same patented design that was used on the M1C Garands. As you can see from the pictures, there are a number of different models of these types of mounts, so don’t run off to Ebay just yet thinking you are going to find an M1C mount cheap. I tried, and you can see the results here, not so good. We did however send a commercial M1 Garand out to G&H to have them install the side mount for us, and that is an option if you don’t want to spend the money on a real M1C from the CMP.

The M1C rifle we ordered came with the side mount slider piece already installed. The gun was $3,000, and they are still available for that price today. Note however that the CMP website warns that the mount may not be installed, so if you are within driving distance to either of the two CMP stores, you may want to take a ride rather than try to order one through the mail. The rifle we got is gorgeous, with some cartouches still visible and all the wood clearly matching and original. Is it imaginable that the government actually removed some M1C mounts and handed them off to CMP to call M1C rifles just because they have the holes drilled for the mount? Er, yea, it is. So make sure that you get the same thing we got at the very minimum. Three thousand bucks is a good price for these guns but it is still a lot of money. The problem is, even with that side plate mounted on the gun, it only gets you about 50% of the way to an usable M1C. You still need the top, removable mounting bracket and rings, which did not come with the gun and probably do not come with any of the guns. You have to buy them, and for that you have two choices. One is to try to find a set online, primarily GunsAmerica, or Ebay where a lot of them end up. There are several different variations of the top slider and only one works for Garands. And even then, these were originally hand fit to that side plate that came on my gun. So that leaves you with option two, regardless, which is sending the gun to Griffin & Howe. If you do get one of the original sliders, with the correct 1938 patent date and 7/8th” rings, you will still most likely have to send it in to be re-fitted to your base. Option two is to just buy the top slider from Griffin & Howe and have them fit it at the same time. Just the slider and rings is $375, and you will be hard pressed to find an original on Ebay for twice that. The only thing is that the new G&H base doesn’t have the patent dates on it (because the patent has long expired), and the rings are 1″.

That means that unless you get really lucky, you should assume that you are going to send your M1C out to Griffin & Howe, which is what we did. Of all the mounts I purchased on Ebay and GunsAmerica, none fit our test gun. So I decided to send not one but two guns to G&H, the M1C from CMP, and the commercial Garand you see here in the pictures. For a little history on the other gun, before the CMP got this load of M1 Garand loaner returns from Greece, there were very few nice Garands in the market, so the modern day Springfield Armory (home of the M1A and XD pistols) built what I call “commercial Garands” for the US market. These were made with a new receiver and mostly GI parts. Since the Greece shipments there haven’t been any more of these new guns available, but I managed to grab two before they came off the market. One of these went out to Griffin & Howe along with the M1C from CMP, and both guns are now complete and usable M1C rifles, though they shot quite differently, which we’ll get to.

Griffin & Howe charges $400 for the two piece mount, which is the side plate and the top slider, and it includes 1″ rings. It is another $250 to install it on your Garand. BEWARE! There is a copy of the Griffin & Howe mount being sold by a regular Ebay seller for $400 which is a high quality but nonetheless Chinese copy. Because it is the same price as the same thing from the original US manufacturer, I would stay away from it. The original M1C mounts have been made by Griffin & Howe from 1944 until today. The other option is to try to buy “new old stock,” or used parts, including the mounting plate, online, but buying the parts and having a working M1C are two different things. You are better off to let Griffin & Howe do the mounting, regardless of where the parts originate. The receiver on the M1 Garand is very hard, and drilling and tapping that plate in correctly isn’t easy. Griffin & Howe actually loses money from their hourly rate on M1C jobs, because the $250 only pays for 2 hours of custom gunsmith time, while the job usually takes half a day. It has to be perfect if you want the scope aligned perfectly with the bore, and a custom jig that aligns all the parts correctly is the only way to assure that it is done right. Custom gunsmiths will tackle a lot of projects, but the smart ones stay away from the M1C. If you want a gun to actually shoot, send it to Griffin & Howe. The money will be well spent. The only catch is that if you decide to but all the parts or just the top slider from G&H, they only offer 1″ rings, so you have to use plastic sleeves for any of the original or replica period scopes. More on that below.

The M1D is the other Garand sniper that saw service in several different branches of the US military. It came along shortly after World War II and uses a single piece scope mount that is bolted into the side of a special barrel sleeve created just for this gun. The system is crude, but it works. Our test gun also came from CMP in that first order from the first article and it was $1,500. They are still that price on the CMP website, and this may be the best buy out there if you want a true Garand Sniper. There are plenty of “new old stock” scope mounts around for the M1D, and they are the correct 7/8ths diameter. This rifle came to us also in very nice shape, but it does not have the cartouches that we found on the M1C. The simplicity of the design of the M1D made it the workhorse of the M1 Garand Sniper guns, and thousands of them soldiered all the way into Vietnam. In the collector market the M1D was rare, and CMP has even used their auction system for M1Ds, because they were so scarce, but as we explained in the first article, right now there is a glut of Garands at CMP because of Greece giving back hundreds of thousands of guns. Grab one while you can and before they run out.

Making a regular M1 Garand into an M1D is as simple as a barrel swap and headspace check. If you want to make your existing Garand into an M1D, this is probably the least expensive option you have. Gun Parts Corp., Numrich Arms, sells a kit with a the special M1D sleeve on a Criterion barrel, the replacement wood handguard and the one piece scope mount. It is currently $360 as I write this. Just about any gunsmith that is comfortable working on Garands should be able to change the barrel and headspace it for you, and you will be one scope shy of a workable M1 Garand sniper rifle, period correct and ready for the range. We are going to be back after SHOT with some reloading stuff for Garands, so hopefully we’ll have our kit mounted on the other commercial Garand for some tests side by side with these guns. It wasn’t worth holding this article up waiting to build our M1D. As you can see from the M1C we built, the commercial Garands aren’t the most accurate.

That brings us to optics, and this is the most confusing and frustrating aspect of the M1 Garand Sniper that you will encounter. If you remember back to our Carlos Hathcock scope article, the 1903A4 used a couple different scope options, the 3/4″ tube M73, and the Unertl barrel mounted scope. Supposedly, mixed in with that was the Lyman Alaskan, which is a 2.5x post reticle scope with a 7/8th” tube. This was the first scope used on the Garand M1C, both in the commercially branded Lyman variety then later renamed the M81 and M82. This scope has internal elevation and windage, and is adjusted by two standard capped knobs. Later, the same scope was duplicated as the M84 with a slightly different reticle, and the scope caps were made into hinged click caps. Originals in both of these scopes are available on the market, and they can run into the thousands of dollars, for not a very good quality scope. And as I explained above, if you choose to get the mount and rings installed by Griffin & Howe, they currently only have 1″ rings available. At last check they have been considering adding the 7/8ths option back to their line, but for now, if you want to use an original sized scope, you have to order Delrin Ring Reducers from Brownells. They have come down ten bucks from when I ordered them to $19.95, which is still absurd for a couple of plastic rings, but it is your only recourse at this juncture.

This includes using the replica scopes, which are both made by Gun Parts Corp., Numrich Arms (GPC). They make both an M82, $499 and an M84 $399, and both have the original sized 7/8″ tubes. As you can see from the pictures, we also bought a commercial Lyman Alaskan from the 1950s and the replicas are the same size. I liked the scopes, and the people who used them on the rifles all liked them and shot them well. If you Google around on the GPC scopes, you will find mixed reviews on them, though I haven’t found an actual review from a real reviewer. When you read bad things about these scopes they are from discussion board geezers who I think are just a bunch of whiners spoiled on 21st Century technology. The original of these scopes weren’t great scopes. To start with, they are only 2.5x, so the magnification stinks at long range. Apparently the military had a standard of 27 feet for the field of view at 100 yards and that greatly reduced how much magnification could be used to make that standard. There is a lot to be said for situational awareness, but as a sniper, that is what your spotter is for! GPC reverse engineered the M82 and M84 as faithfully as they could. Even the reticles are correct, and I’m sure that was no easy task on modern equipment. I have seen some complaints that the inside paint flakes off, but it did on the originals as well. If you plan on buying a new old stock or replica of these scopes, plan on it being an adventure in antiquity, not a precise science. The GPC scopes held point of impact perfectly under hundreds of rounds and they feel just like you are shooting with an old scope.

We were able to easily mount and zero the replicas, but the Alaskan has really gummed up turrets and needs to be taken apart and lubricated. We have one more Lyman Alaskan for that M1D project, so hopefully we’ll see that combination in a future article. We paid $350 for each of the Lymans from a GunsAmerica seller, and both came in bags marked M1D, though we have no research on the actual lineage. There were some Weaver 330 variations used on the Garand M1D apparently, and that scope has a 1″ tube so could be used with the new manufacture Griffin & Howe rings. There are a bunch of old scopes from that era that have a post reticle and 1″ tubes, and look valid on the M1C and M1D. Nobody is going to complain if you show up at a Garand match with an old Weaver 4x scope that was made in New Mexico in the 60s. I’m not sure I would, however, show up with a 24x NcStar. Good luck with that.

Our accuracy testing was on a total of three guns. The first is the M1C we got from CMP. Remember it had the side mount installed, but we sent it out to Griffin & Howe to be fitted with the top slide and we used the Delrin rings with the replica M82. It turned out that, though we told them not to, someone at G&H decided that the screws and pins in this historic M1C should be replaced, and we were charged $125 plus $15 for the screws and pins. This was a mistake, and probably hurt the collectible value of the gun. If you decide to order the M1C from CMP and send it in, make sure that you have communication with them ongoing and make sure they know that you don’t want the existing mount boogered with. It took several months for our order to come back, on two guns, so I hope you aren’t in a hurry. Such is the old world custom gun business. Amazon immediate gratification be damned. The original M1C was, however, the most accurate rifle of the bunch, shooting at close to MOA accuracy with the 2.5 replica M82 scope from Gun Parts Corp. at 100 yards. We again used only Hornady 168gr. Garand Match ammunition for all of these tests, as this has become the standard by which all others are measured.

The second gun was the commercial Garand we sent to Griffin & Howe with the M1C. They installed a brand new M1C mount on it, and the gun is as close to and M1C “as issued” as you are going to get. The accuracy wasn’t as good at the real M1C or even the M1D, but even though many of the GI parts on these guns are stamped NM for National Match, they clearly weren’t built for competitive accuracy. I elected to send my commercial Garands out for the mods because as we explained in the first article, even the inexpensive guns coming out of CMP will at some point be collectible, with the CMP paperwork, as shipped. If you take one of the new CMP Specials, with the Criterion barrels, and send them out for an M1C mount, you may be decreasing their value in the long run because that gun was not shipped from CMP as an M1C. Hopefully CMP will put out their own replicas under the CMP Special system at a reasonable price. That would be cool! We ordered some barreled actions from them for an upcoming article on the Sage Garand stocks and they are gorgeous, perfect for CMP Specials in both the M1C and M1D configurations.

The M1D was close in accuracy to the M1C. Later I tested both of these guns with a throat gauge to see how much wear they had, and both of them came in at around or just under a reading of 2, which is some wear, but not a lot of wear. Out of curiosity I measured the M1D kit from GPC and my virtually unfired commercial Garands, and they all measured 0 on the gauge. That means that though the Greeks may not have shot these guns, the US soldiers before them did, and there is at least 1/4″ of missing rifling at the front of the bore before the bullet engages. You can’t escape physics, and even with the perfect load an the perfect bullet these guns are going to be handicapped and probably won’t be capable of winning serious matches. Take that for what it is worth if you plan to compete in service rifle matches. These accuracy tests were replicated several times each with over 100 rounds of ammunition. If you are a very good shooter you will easily best these groups, but for an average good shooter, bench rested, this is what you can expect. Long range accuracy with sniper Garands is kind of a crap shoot. There is a serious parallax issue caused by having the scope off to the side, so when you zero your scope at 100 yards, it is going to be significantly impact to the right at 200 yards. The scope is on a different axis in relation to gravity, so testing is the only way you will consistently be able to shoot these guns at any significant range. Fun stuff though!

This has been a fantastic series to work on, and indeed a lot of fun. If you are interested in real Garand history, there are a number of good books available. The brief history here is only meant to be some background to our main focus, which is shooting the actual CMP guns. There are a couple more articles coming down the road. One is on reloading for the Garand, and how to use a wide range of bullets for a lot of different purposes. We would also like to build a Garand from the inexpensive barreled actions sold by CMP, but the tactical stock from Sage is too far back ordered to get into that right now. If you want to build a Garand from scratch, using those barreled actions, the American Gunsmithing Institute sells a really good video guide, which is what we will be using once the project is ready. There is no rifle more uniquely American than the M1 Garand, and if you haven’t ordered one from CMP by now, perhaps this sniper installment will inspire you to take the plunge. CMP is not an advertiser here and this isn’t a sales pitch. We have paid for and own every gun for this series. We also paid Griffin & Howe over $1200 for the work they did on our two guns. We even really bought all those incorrect mounts on Ebay to show you what kind of mess you can get yourself into trying to save money. The purpose of this series is to duplicate what you can expect, and we hope you have enjoyed it.

Buying M1 Garands from the US Government

Garands from the Government II – The Guns Arrive

The Cheapest Garands – Part 3 Garands from the Government

{ 43 comments… add one }
  • John July 4, 2018, 11:26 am

    I was talking to an old Korean vet many years ago. If I understood what he said correctly, they zeroed the side mount scope so that point of impact was to the right at 100 yards by the same distance as bore to center of the scope, which took out that parallax error. They just aimed about 2 inches to the left of where they wanted to actually hit, so the scope axis was parallel to the bullet path, not convergent. Would that actually work?

  • John July 9, 2015, 3:43 am

    Cheekpiece called cheek pad in manual.
    Trying to put one on the M1A I have. Neighbor won’t sell me his M1. Don’t blame him.
    TM 9-1005-222-35 Sniper Rifle Cal. 30 M1 & M1D (support maintenance manual) found at archive.org shows mounting of pad starting with 2 brass wood screws. Don’t think I will drill into my stock. Picture on page 41 not to clear but gives some idea how it was to be installed.

  • Bob Britton October 20, 2014, 8:00 pm

    I bought 3 guns in the 1960’s through the director of civilian marksmanship program and the rules they had then were that you could only buy one of each type during your lifetime and were not allowed to resell them. If I can find the paperwork sent with them I’ll send a copy to you. CMP changed the rules to what you have today. I traded the like new Remington 1903-A4 and a can of Lake City Match ammo for $ 200 to get a handgun for silhouette competition. I enjoyed the years of shooting silhouette competition but, in hindsight, sure wish I would not have traded the 03A4 to get started.

  • Orlando Sandoval August 25, 2014, 9:31 pm

    I have what I believe to be an M-1D Garand that my father left me in his collection. It has the correct scope mount and what appears to be the correct scope. The scope has serial numbers, a crown emblem and the letters “FKF” above it. The receiver has U.S. Rifle
    Cal. 30 M1 Springfield Armory serial number 2100534.
    Any info on this would be helpful. I’m wondering if it was assembled at the Armory, or pieced together.

  • ogden attorney July 5, 2014, 2:28 pm

    Thanks for finally writing about >M1 Garand Sniper
    Variants M1C & M1D – Part 4 Garands from the Government <Loved it!

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  • Cecelia January 18, 2014, 2:23 pm

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  • woodsmuggler May 14, 2013, 12:29 am

    repeal GCA of 68 and 36 and blanket CCW nation wide with clearance through Canada.
    Thank You

  • Michael E. MCcaulley January 1, 2013, 12:17 pm

    We need the laws implied and posted by the writers of the fathers of the United States.
    Not second hand writers! Third world wand to be’s

    Check second hand writers of history

  • PRCKID December 27, 2012, 7:50 pm


  • Roy December 21, 2012, 8:30 am

    When I was in Korea and on the front lines and when the truce on we had to go and check out for any weapons and when we found them we were told to throw them over the hill, so I threw many mi grands away that I would like to have now. I did find a Russian ppsh41 with a 71rd. Drum mag that I had fun shooting.

  • CIA December 15, 2012, 8:16 am

    soliciten a OPA en WQJC7N, y tome un Arma

  • CIA December 14, 2012, 11:14 am

    Organicen las Milicias, no se dara servidumbre a ningún gobierno, MI PLEITESIA SERÁ PARA EL SANTO GRIAL.

  • CIA December 14, 2012, 11:00 am

    Hallazgo de explosivos de demolición en las Torres Gemelas, Informe Nics oh algo asi, las muestras se tomaron el mismo dia. Despues llego la OPA.

  • CIA December 14, 2012, 5:12 am

    Por la Gloria del Grand, asi dirige el mundo el Caballero Blanco, toc toc, ¿Esta Sr.Putin? arregleme lo de Siria.

  • CIA December 14, 2012, 5:07 am

    la almeja rosa canta, el Bloqueo Permanece, ¿Alguna Objeción de OPA?

  • CIA December 12, 2012, 11:18 am

    solo los elegidos llegaran a ver, con un pie en los lagos nacerä el primer sarcasmo Presidencial

  • CIA December 12, 2012, 7:08 am

    la ruta de Manila habia caido, inquietante Guantanamo solo se explica como respuesta a la ruta Mexicana del Opio, Se busca el Tesoro de Kenedy, recepciones en esta web

  • CIA December 11, 2012, 2:55 pm

    desarme? mal me huele Jhon Adans desde Sacramento a Carolina del Sur estados Reveldes, esto es por la vergüenza del Cochino Guantanamo, America no es Eterna, cambio hace 100 años. Estaba con lo de Kenedy y me acorde de mi Abuelo.

  • JLA December 11, 2012, 1:59 am

    If you’re interested in a shooter, rather than a collector piece, you may want to check out Fulton Armory. They produce two versions of the M1C, both with genuine Griffin & Howe side mounts. The less expensive of the two is the ‘Enhanced M1C Sniper Rifle’, with the other being the ‘Peerless M1C Sniper Rifle.’ Both come equipped with 1″ rings & G.I. contour national match barrels, and are available with Krieger match barrels for an additional fee. The rifles are also available in .308 Winchester if you prefer that round to the .30-06.

    The ‘Enhanced M1C’ has a list price of $2600 and can be upgraded with national match sights, a flash suppressor and laminated birch stocks. An M1907 leather sling & cheekpiece are included, and it has a 2MOA accuracy guarantee. The ‘Peerless M1C’ lists for $3200 and has all the same features & options. The primary differences between the two are that the ‘Peerless’ grade rifles are all glass bedded, and they come with a Sub-MOA accuracy guarantee. Both use original USGI receivers that are shipped to Griffin & Howe for the installation of their side scope mounts.

    A friend of mine has a Fulton Armory Peerles grade M1C. His will put 5 rounds or Hornady’s 168gr M1 Garand match ammo into just under an inch at 100 yards and is still under 6 inches out at 600 yards. Unfortunately, last I looked neither rifle was allowed in CMP Garand Matches or in Vintage Sniper Matches due to their accuracy enhancements. Fulton Armory used to offer a special ‘Garand Match’ rifle that was set-up specifically for CMP Garand Match competition. Since most of their rifles are built to order they may build you a Garand Match/Vintage Sniper Match legal M1C if you request it. (Obviously the scope would have to be removed for shooting in a Garand Match!) You’d just have to call and ask to find out. Either way these are exceptionally nice rifles!

  • SteveR December 11, 2012, 1:47 am

    Top1939 would like to speak with you about working on my M1 Garand.

  • Vic Mazzone December 10, 2012, 11:58 pm

    Springfield Armory should start making a new 2013 Garand in 308 and 3006. Tanker model and full size.
    There is a lot of demand for this beautiful rifle. Use premium parts with match trigger and barrels and
    I’ll stand in line for one. I’m not a collector but I’d cherish this shooter. Vic

  • jack December 10, 2012, 11:49 pm

    We should just go to top1939 for Garand work!

  • Nomad Nomlaki December 10, 2012, 6:10 pm

    Hard to believe the prices of WWII rifles and pistols. My father and uncles served in European or Pacific. They brought back lugers, swords, SS daggers helmets. One uncle had many decorations for heroism. He had three foot lockers of Nazi daggers, Lugers and medals he took off Nazi officers he killed personally. My first hunting rifle was a M-1 Garand bought in pawn shop for $25. I also had a Ivers Johnson 30 cal M-1 that I bought for $20. My uncle had a K-98 Mauser with the SS mark on it. He cut it down for hunting rifle. My father brought back a German Luger with the SS marks on it. I lost it when playing with neighbors. I think older kid knew where I hid it and made off with it. My father had a K-98 Mauser that was like new issue. I still have that today. Some 3 years ago I was in Reno Nevada at Cabela’s. They had a short tanker version of Garand it was Auto-ordinance? Or something like that. It was like new and barreled in 308. All the store wanted was $375.00 for it. I couldn’t buy it as I was out of state and my friend in Nevada has a felony on is record so I coudn’t have him buy it. Just th eother day I seen a Grarand in local gun shop it was of those made in china or Tiawan for $800. I checked it out and it was in really bad shape, barrell rifling was pitted and so worn a bullet would fall through it. Not to mention gun dealer sprayed stock and other wood with green car paint. The is gun shop sucks as this dealer charged me $375
    when I ordered a new M-14 from Springfield at the listed price. The $375 was his fee for registering gun and paperwork. I offered him$500 for the junk Garand and he said that was an insult as the Garand was worth $1000.

    I had seen m-14’s, Garands, M-1 carbines, 45 grease guns, french, german, Italian, firearms recovered from firefights with VC, even 30-30 lever action rifles, muzzle loader muskets and hand made firearms. The NVA had Chi-com weapons. I can’t see why the firearms are costing so much when there are millionsof them still out there.

  • Tom December 10, 2012, 6:07 pm

    I have an original M1-D. Have rebought it back from the same gunstore 3 times, and paid the same price for it 2 times. On the genuine D, I read some place that one of the cartouches is under the pad on the right side. I thought about pealing it off once, but realized the lacings were done right, and worn real pretty like 60 year old leather lacing should look. But I did notice a couple polished flat brass screws slightly up underneath the pad! Apparently each sniper that was handed the rifle to use would unscrew the 2 brass screws to adjust the pad to where it was most comfortable for him, and then to protect the stock from water either he or the armourer would fill the hole with a brass srew and file it flat. Remember the 2 highest holes on either end have a brass screw put in tokeep it from moving after it’s laced down. Let me know if you want a picture. I was an armourer for 37 years 67 to 05.

    • Joseph Senter December 11, 2012, 8:43 am

      I would certainly enjoy seeing pictures. My grandparents raised me, and my grandfather was a gunsmith during WWII. He was an avid hunter so I grew up around guns and listen to his stories. When I got old enough he taught me to shoot and how to sight in a gun. Later on he taught me to hunt. Needless to say I love guns and hunting. So yes, I’d love to see pictures of your M1D, and if you are on Facebook look me up. My name is Joseph K. Senter and I would enjoy hearing about your Armorer days. God bless you and may God bless and protect our troops.

  • Bonner Spearman Jones December 10, 2012, 4:33 pm

    I would love to own one of these m1 rifles. Are they for sale? If so what is the price?

  • DaveM December 10, 2012, 1:42 pm

    My middle son and I intend to visit Camp Perry to pick out a couple of Service Grade M1’s for shooting not for collecting. What gauges should we take with us or can we trust the tagged measurements? The articles have been a wealth of information in our preparation to go pick them out.

    • Administrator December 10, 2012, 1:45 pm

      The gauges are expensive I have never seen any reason to doubt what they are marked with.

      • ron December 10, 2012, 8:04 pm

        gauges for measuring bore and throat erosion is not expensive I have a timing block, firing pin gauge, gas piston go-no gauge well worth the money spent I am sure the C.M.P. is truthful it is the gun show I am worried about

    • LarryB December 11, 2012, 5:08 pm

      I visited Camp Perry on Saturday, December 8th, with the hope of picking up a service grade Springfield. I called a couple of days earlier, and they had 20+ on hand. Much to my dismay, the store opened at 8:30 AM with 12 in stock and were sold out by 8:35 AM. They do not know when more will arrive. So, call in advance and get there as quickly as possible after they arrive. They still had a good selection of field grade rifles to pick through along with dozens of service grade specials ($950) and CMP specials ($995). The search was on. If this is going to be a one-time purchase, I would save the $100 for gauges and use it on ammo or other accessories. The associates behind the counter will loan you a muzzle gauge using your drivers license as a deposit. I strongly suggest that you borrow one and check each rifle you are considering. I found a very nice H&R that was tagged 2+ on the muzzle and 3+ on the throat. A quick check showed it was really 1+ on the muzzle. The throat was checked at the counter, and it came in at 2+. I was sold. The bottom line is to use the tags as a guideline and perform a quick check yourself.

  • william December 10, 2012, 11:57 am

    In part two, you call a 2+ on the throat of a special service grade “pretty good” in part four you make much ado about how much wear a 2 represents on an M1D and suggest that it was shot alot. The muzzle erosion must also be considered to get a true indication of wear. Many unfired barrels will show a 1 or 2 on the throat gauge depending on how the chambers were reamed.

    • Administrator December 10, 2012, 12:07 pm

      We didn’t have the gauge in part 2. It was just what was written on the paper. Seeing how the gauge is graded, and that they go up to essentially “throw this out” in grading was an education. This series is about discovering all the details about these guns, and nobody would say that we were able to catch everything.

  • bhp9 December 10, 2012, 11:33 am

    One thing I have learned over the years (and my advice often falls on deaf ears), and that is “Never, Never” alter (butcher) a military rifle. When you do you lower the value immediately by at least half and you lose all future rise in the collector value. Unless the conversion is done by a professional that knows what he is doing (and these people are getting harder and harder to find), you end up with a slop job that makes the gun look like a Franken monster butcher job. If you like to shoot with a scope then buy an S&K no drill, no tap insta-mount. You can use a superior modern type scope and you then can convert the gun back to normal and not lose its collector value.

    • Administrator December 10, 2012, 11:41 am

      The question is really whether it is going to increase in value during your lifetime, which for Garands that have no CMP history, is pretty much no. As it says in the article, it would be nice to see CMP put out their own Special grade M1C and M1D rifles.

  • jon December 10, 2012, 10:24 am

    I am a dissabled vet’ retired. Do you offer discounts to us. Thank You……..SFC Weeks

  • top1939 December 10, 2012, 10:17 am

    OOps…I am 73…Not 71..Hit a wrong key..:-)

    • Robert Madeira December 20, 2015, 4:44 pm

      I have a WWII Winchester Garand and the bore is pitted pretty bad. I would like to know if you can replace it with a good Winchester barrel and how much would it cost. By the way, I am 74 and carried one of these guns while in the Army. I shot expert with it then.

  • top1939 December 10, 2012, 10:15 am

    For over 30 years..I BUILT the M21 and the M1D Sniper Rifles for the US GOVT..
    Some M1C’s…but they were far too much trouble..and shot no better than a “D”..
    Was a fantastic experience.
    To this day..I “re-build” MANY M1 Rifles and M1A TARGET Rifles for folks..refinishing as well….
    Never tire of it…and at 71..I need no books or pc’s to tell me what is right or wrong..!!
    Thanks for the info … I have been buying from CMP for over 40 years ?? No….over 60 years…even as a kid I got items through Nick Galente…a NY Gunsmith… Check 6

  • EdH December 10, 2012, 8:37 am

    It would be awesome to own one of the Garands or carbines that the current administration won’t allow back in country from South Korea.

    • Ron December 10, 2012, 10:20 am

      We might have to go to Korea to get one and I bet it would be about $50.00. This administration is going to do it’s best to disarm America. Bet on it.

  • CIA December 10, 2012, 8:35 am

    no pienso pagarlo ya me estais mandando uno por correo y 400 proyectiles.

  • RDC December 10, 2012, 8:12 am

    Just a couple corrections to a nice article. Weaver scopes were made in Elpaso Texas, not New Mexico. The 1″ scoped version was a K4 60 Series weaver in special 1″ M1D ring/mount.

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