Shoot First or Attempt to De-Escalate During Home Invasion?

This past Thursday morning an Indianapolis man shot a suspected home invader following a physical altercation between the two men, local media reports.

Howard Murphy, the homeowner, hid in his pantry when 39-year-old Kocho Long broke into his kitchen via the backdoor. It was the second time that week Murphy’s home had been invaded, though the first time he wasn’t home.

Murphy confronted the would-be burglar. The two man began to fight until Long attempted to strike Murphy with an object, that’s when Murphy fired his gun striking Long in the leg.

“Either I was going to get hurt or he was going to get hurt,” Murphy told 24-Hour News 8 Reporter Jessica Smith. “I know I didn’t want to get hurt in my own house.”

“If I can work for what’s mine, then people like that can work for what’s theirs,” Murphy continued. “I feel bad about what happened, but in the same token my life was in danger in the kitchen.”

Long is in custody. According to reporters, it’s not his first run-in with the law.

What’s fascinating about this defensive gun use (DGU) story is that it appears Murphy hesitated to shoot Long at first. Instead of immediately opening fire on the intruder, Murphy apparently let Long get close enough to physically engage him.

I’m speculating here, perhaps Murphy was just overcome by the moment and didn’t deliberately opt not to fire on Long. Whatever the case may be, it raises the question of whether one should shoot first or attempt to de-escalate the situation during a home invasion.

Obviously, every situation is different. No two break-ins are alike. So, the obvious answer is: “It depends.”  That said, I think there is a common denominator in every self-defense or home invasion scenario, which is the desire to immediately assess the threat. Right?

How much of a threat is the intruder? How well are you prepared to deal with the intruder in that particular moment? Are you armed? Is he armed? Is he bigger than you? Can you see him clearly? How close is he to you? Is he alone? Are you alone? Upon seeing you, does he take an aggressive posture? Is he preparing to fight? Is he attempting to flee? Etc.

Assuming you have gun in hand, and you take the intruder by surprise as Murphy did to Long, do you give a command in an attempt to de-escalate the situation and use non-lethal force to subdue the suspect,”Hands up, get on the ground!” or do you simply open fire until the threat is neutralized?

About the author: S.H. Blannelberry is the News Editor of GunsAmerica.

{ 205 comments… add one }
  • Jerry January 25, 2018, 7:11 pm

    We have the solution here in Texas. We all know there is a huge difference between murder and self defense. Murder is killing a person that is innocent and has done nothing to deserve to die. It is a terrible crime and those that murder should be publicly executed. However, Justifiable Homicide/Self Defense is killing the SOB that’s trying to kill you or your loved ones. Or, has broken into your house and put you in fear of your life or grievous bodily harm. If you’re ever in that situation, do not say anything to the bad guy; just shoot him twice in the chest and once in the head. As long as he’s standing he’s a threat so keep shooting until he falls. Settle down, reload and then call 911. If for some reason the bad guy becomes a threat again; well, that’s why you reloaded. Oh yeah, and an outlaw thug Woman will kill you just as quick, if not quicker, than a man, so beware….

  • James Graham December 23, 2017, 8:40 am

    There is a reason “breaking” into a house with occupants in it or home is labeled as a “violent crime” by most police statistics. There is intention to be violent on the part of the invaders if necessary. The only real solution is to meet that threat with equal or greater violence. To not do so is simply unethical on the part of the person in control of the means to do so. Unethical because of the violence that might be visited upon ones loved ones, but also unethical because the same violence will probably be visited upon other innocent people in the future by the same perpetrating criminals. The only ethical and responsible thing to do is to make sure your family is not harmed and to make sure that violent criminal NEVER has the possibility of doing the same to other innocent people. Remember the old Marine saying, Life is precious and ammunition is cheap. Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice!” Never fire until you gun is empty if possible, but ALWAYS fire as long as your enemy is moving.

  • Dan October 9, 2017, 12:40 pm

    Most intruders or home invaders are gong to be armed with a weapon of some sort, and in most cases, if they have already broken into your home, it is going to be best to shoot them before they get a chance to use it.

    • mtman2 November 6, 2017, 8:57 am

      Exactly = size doesn’t matter as a concealed knife, blackjack, big wrench, prybar or even a 1lb rock is deadly if that person is close enough.
      Tho any of those could be thrown at speed from 10-20ft away to then move in fast- causing a serious flinch if not iinjury- gaining a seconds time.
      * Just a thot- it’d be better to be partially behind a door or doorway as protection and an easy pull of the trigger if need be.

  • ejharb November 14, 2016, 9:24 am

    Anyone who comes into your house after you told them to go away is coming to kill you or worse.act accordingly.
    You warned them other warning should be given.they chose their fate

  • Rory Steidl November 4, 2016, 9:28 pm

    If he / she is armed and in your house – and the target has also been identified as hostile – SHOOT !
    If he / she appears to be unarmed but is advancing and threatening violence or otherwise indicates they will endanger human life – SHOOT !

  • Steve Douglas October 28, 2016, 11:26 am

    There has to be common sense used in every situation. For me, if the family is safe and I’m confronting a burglar, then a command to hit the floor will come first. If the intruder advances, he’s getting one mid mass. If the intruder got behind me and is advancing toward a family member, it’s shoot first. And not in the leg. I don’t think anyone wants to really take a life. But, family, and my own life take precedent over the idiot that picked my home. A dog of any size is smart to have as a first warning. The dog will give more time to asses the situation. I mean, drunk neighbors have gone to the wrong house and been killed. I’d not want to be the shooter in that case. Same goes for the teenager that made a stupid decision. I pray I’ll never have to make the decision to shoot. But I’m ready if need be.

    • Jonny November 7, 2016, 6:05 pm

      If I caught anyone in my house, they would find themselves in a dirt box deathlock, sodomised and then cut into pieces and dumped in a bath of acid. They won’t be back. Praise Jesus.

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  • ScottAD January 25, 2015, 10:11 am

    I think it all depends on whether they are stand on the new carpet or not.

  • MeMikeT January 6, 2015, 10:00 am

    I’m not sure how I would react to a home invasion or a carjacking. In my mind I see myself shooting first…ask questions last. What I do know is that there should be more news reports when there is a home invasion or car jacking, and it should be all over the news how the thug got shot and even killed by the victim. These thugs need to start realizing there are serious consequences to their unlawful actions. Death being one of them.

  • Sam January 4, 2015, 11:50 am

    Hard to say but I think I would get in a defensive position and start yelling for the intruder to leave my house. If I see him after that I wouldn’t want to hesitate. I mean if he is approaching me then he is a gonner. I suppose I might give my position away if he is also armed so perhaps it does depend somewhat. My guess is the coward would run but you got to be a little crazy to be breaking in so I might have talked myself in to shoot first.

  • Sam January 4, 2015, 11:49 am

    Hard to say but I think I would get in a defensive position and start yelling for the intruder to leave my house. If I see him after that I wouldn’t want to hesitate. I mean if he is approaching me then he is a gonner. I suppose I might give my position away if he is also armed so perhaps it does depend somewhat. My guess is the coward would run but you got to be a little crazy to be breaking in so I might have talked myself in to shoot first.

  • tc January 3, 2015, 9:44 pm

    The problems is a bully who thinks your property is theirs will continue to think so, so enabling them with your personal property makes you what???

  • Grey Beard January 3, 2015, 6:08 pm

    How familiar are you with the concept of “Action vs. Reaction?” The answer is quite simple.

  • PudbertSavannahGA January 3, 2015, 2:59 pm

    What a st00pid and typically ign0rant liberal idea,,,
    let’s try to “de-escalate” a home invasion and give the p05 time to murder you in your own home….. duuuuuuh

    • Justin H September 24, 2017, 8:41 am

      If you have never been in this type of situation you have no idea what it’s like. It’s very easy to say you would just shoot an intruder right away. It’s not that simple, when your in that situation you really tense up, your scared and your adrenaline is through the roof. It’s hard to think normally. I had a home invasion at my house at around 11 at night, I had left to go to the store to get some things because I’m a night owl, my fiancé was home and 2 armed guys broke in and zip tied my fiancé while pointing guns at her. Luckily she wasn’t harmed and they were apparently drug addicts that just wanted to steal as much as they can. Any way when I returned from the grocery store as I was walking up to my back door I could see that it was busted out and I heard my fiancé crying and screaming my name. I immediately started freaking out, it was very hard to think. I wanted to just run to her but luckily I was able to think enough to get my gun out and slowly enter the house looking in each room to make sure there was no one going to shoot me because then I couldn’t help my fiancé. I went to the bedroom once I found it was clear and got the zip ties off and got her out of the house to call the police. So what I mean is yes you would like to just shoot a home invader right away, there is more to it than you would think in the moment. After when you tho back you know exactly what you should have done but when it actually happens to u it’s very scary and hard to know what to do. That’s the experience I have. We have since got an alarm and more secure doors. I would like to think if someone ever broke in my house again I would shoot them right away to keep my family safe. But it’s easier said than done. Plus if there is more than one person you have to realize, you can shoot one but if the other has a gun they can also shoot you, if there are 3 or more of them and only one of you, your in Trouble. I just wanted to say that it’s easy to give advice about what to do in the situation if you weren’t there. Anyone that has actually had something like this happen to them understand.

  • gym January 3, 2015, 12:25 pm

    Having had 5 of them in my house, I can assure you I got lucky escaping harm, only because they had my girlfriend already in another room, After finding out that they got bad information, they took a vote on weather or not to kill us. That day we passed. There is no way I will ever let that happen again. And I had a gun on me, but did you ever see 6 people start shooting at each other in 600 sq ft? With your old lady in the bathroom with a gun to her head? I had a “push in” while going to work, they were in the stairwell waiting for the door knob to turn, this was 35 years ago before alarms. But in a luxury high rise with doorman and garage attendant. They just walked right past them.
    Do yourself a favor, get a dog and alarm, and a gun.

  • Rick 173 January 3, 2015, 12:29 am

    Near the end of this piece is a group of questions that took me about five seconds to read. That was four and a half seconds longer than it would take me to asses and open fire. The fact the guy was through my door was all the assessment needed.
    Perhaps the Indy P.D. should buy Mr. Long a buss ticket down here to Texas. We would be happy to demonstrate the proper way to end a home invasion.

  • Steve Mitchell January 2, 2015, 10:40 pm

    I am so full of people that have to correct someone for the use of clip or mag .Who gives a HOOT!

  • tim kelly January 2, 2015, 7:53 pm

    Boy my wife would be pissed at the perp. Blood all over the tiles and grout.

  • CG January 2, 2015, 7:24 pm

    I think liability is less if he is dead and appropriately terminated with a couple rounds to his chest. Anyone who kicks a door in should know the consequences of being caught. If I simply incapacitated him with a round to the leg, I would be concerned the intruded would later be angry that I gave him a bum leg and then come looking for me gain.

  • JC January 2, 2015, 3:44 pm

    This string has a lot of comments that I don’t have time to read but, has anyone in this dialog addressed the possible solution of shooting the intruder in the legs as the home owner did & then holding your weapon on him until the cops arrive? Of course this is assuming that you could see he didn’t have a weapon pointed at you, didn’t have backups in or around the house, or have a leg holster as a backup. I’m thinking of lowering the owners civil & criminal liability.

  • Alfonso A. Rodriguez January 2, 2015, 2:54 pm

    If is a home invasion, it is a hostile takeover. The only way to deescalate is to shoot first if possible and worry about it later. You can shake or be afraid later but that can only happen if you are alive. Do not try to reason with a home invader, they are not trying to collect for the Salvation Army and they may kill anyway just to leave no witnesses; it happens all the time. Shooting is justified, but make sure you hit your intended target, stray bullets cannot be stopped and may end up in the neighbors house so practice and be mentally prepared for the possibility of a home invasion. Paranoia? Not likely, just common sense and refusal to be a victim. The police should be there only to pick the culprits’ dead bodies not yours. The castle doctrine applies.

  • Mr Smith 74 January 2, 2015, 1:44 pm

    The biggest factor for me would be does this home invasion thug have a mask or disguise on. If they aren’t wearing a mask its because they aren’t going to leave any witnesses alive to ID them. He showed incredible restraint by shooting him only in the leg. I work in law enforcement and my family knows whats up if they aren’t wearing a disguise. Your family should too.

  • Fred Flint January 2, 2015, 1:42 pm

    Lets not get too bloodthirsty here. I can tell you that if you every kill someone your life will change for the worse. You will get sued probably and if you make a mistake and shoot that 15 year old burgular- you may end up doing time in prison.
    So if you can avoid killing a human being – I suggest doing so. That said , if a person who literally is an armed home invader busts your door down- you may as well start blasting away. He may return fire, of course and kill you. If it is a burglar, most of whom are cowards, give a warning and then prepare to shoot if he moves toward you. Do not shoot anyone in the back while he is retreating or chase him across the street to shoot him. This will get you, probably, in prison. They are no longer a threat once they retreat. Manslaughter is about as good as most judges will do for you.

  • BRASS January 2, 2015, 1:01 pm

    As a young Marine I studied defensive martial arts in addition to more offensive USMC training. One of the first things I learned in both was never let a threat get close enough to touch you with his hands, feet or anything he can hold in them. If a threat is close enough to throw something at you he’s too close. Distance is your friend and the opposite is true.
    Never use a handgun when you can use a long gun. Never use a knife when you can use a gun and never use your hands when you don’t have to. Smart wins more fights than brave.

    • JoeUSooner February 17, 2017, 9:28 am

      “Smart wins more fights than brave.”

      The most profound (and certainly accurate/true!) statement I’ve read in many years… thank you, sir.

      • James Graham December 23, 2017, 8:49 am

        Those profound words are taught by probably every “combat” instructor I have ever known. I am sure every Marine D.I. teaches the same “wisdom”. Along with the “Life is precious, ammo is cheap” wisdom. Funny that simple “truth” is profound…:-) but I guess it is.

  • Tom January 2, 2015, 12:54 pm

    The foundation of responsible firearms ownership is safety. To be able to safely handle the firearms you handle you need to have an intimate knowledge of that firearm. Using incorrect terminology suggests not possessing that knowledge.

    • James Graham December 23, 2017, 8:19 am

      What silly rubbish to think that if someone does not know the nomenclature for his weapon that he can not use it with sufficient profieciency . About half of all people using correct “terminalogy” could not shoot an aggressive assailant if their life depended on it. I have known some absolute deadly shooters, and some who were damn dangerous as well, who called a “mag” a “clip”. And a couple who had killed more than one person with a pistol. One old police officer we called “Snuffy” springs to mind. He called the “mag” for his S&W 45 a “clip”. I even had to clean his SKS for him since he could not figure out how to take it apart. Snuffy barely qualified with that pistol, but could NOT shoot as well as most of his fellow police officers. BUT Snuffy, a few days later stepped out 50 feet away when other “More Qualified” police officers were firing at nothing and cowering behind cars and Kooly shot a perpetrator criminal dead. Apparently he had done the same on more than one occasion before. When I asked about it Snuffy answered, “I might miss the center of a bulls-eye by 4 inches, but men are bigger than four inches and if you shot them a couple of times with a 45 they usually fall down.” I would bet that about half of the deadlist hunters around do not use the “proper” names for the parts of their weapons. By the way a “gun” is something “mounted” not something carried…:-) A “weapon” is carried. MOA does not matter in a gunfight – Moment on Man is what counts.

  • david January 2, 2015, 12:35 pm

    How did the home owner allow the perp to get close enough for hand-to-hand fighting? That said, tell the perp you have a gun, and s/he must leave immediately or you will shoot s/he. If s/he makes a move toward you (other then a retreat to the door, then they are ignoring harm to their life or limb and the only rational conclusion to reach is that they are trying to imminently harm you. You then have the right to defend yourself.

  • Michael J. Salzbrenner January 2, 2015, 11:52 am

    As the article states. There is a reason its called “Threat Assessment”. I’m not a trigger happy gunslinger. I have no desire to take a life, especially for something as futile as materialistic items. However, I am fully prepared to defend myself. That being said, if someone breaks into my home, then I will be forced to evaluate the circumstances and do what I feel is necessary to diffuse the situation. There are simply too many variables to consider to state an “overall” or “generic” opinion to this question. Are there other loved ones in the home? Is the intruder armed? With what? Etc. Etc. Etc. No confrontation is ever as cut and dried as YES or NO. It just doesn’t work that way. All I can say is I will do what is necessary to eliminate an imminent threat. But I am also of enough moral fortitude to attempt a less than lethal resolution.

  • Bob January 2, 2015, 11:49 am

    Do what you have to do. All the words spoken in this forum have merit. Shoot straight, stay alive.

  • Terry January 2, 2015, 11:19 am

    Following a violent break-in such as breaking down a door would get an intruder a very nasty surprise without hesitation at my house. There is no way to know if he would be armed or not and to hesitate could be to die. This type of aggression leaves one with little choice and no opportunity to “de-escalate”!

    • Rick January 2, 2015, 1:25 pm

      I`m a retired cop. Yes, all home invasions start with violence. Most involve more than one assailant. They use this violent start for its shock value in gaining control of the people inside. Unless unarmed juveniles are the offenders, shooting the offenders is always the only rational reaction. You have to assume that they mean you harm if they`re breaking into your home while someone is in the residence. A high percentage of home invasions result in great bodily harm, or death for the resident. Don`t talk to them, as this only gives the offender(s) more time to get an advantage over you. Every incident is different, but our laws empower residents to use deadly force in protecting their homes and families for a reason. To do otherwise is, in my opinion, foolish and reckless. I know what a magazine is, but most people call them clips. Even shooting instructors.

      • charles November 4, 2016, 6:59 am

        well said ! Im not ruling out not using lethal force , but if uninvited visitors crash through my door , my “switch ” is going to ” on ” and i’m going Rambo . unless something extraordinary instantly convinces me that deadly force isnt needed , ITS NEEDED and will be automatic . ive drilled that into my wife and three daughters as well. dont mull over it dont hesitate , go into action . shoot until you can see you dont need to shoot them anymore . first you WIN we’ll deal with everything else later .
        its not about keeping my property safe , nothing i own is worth hurting someone over . if they have forcibly broken into your HOME , you are in GRAVE danger of losing the most precious thing you have …..your LIFE at that point its time to get “mad dog mean “

  • Ruben T. Rodriguez January 2, 2015, 10:50 am

    To those who are overly concerned about a particular vocabulary or terminology, Context is the key as to whether or not to be concerned. As an internet discussion the clip comment was petty and hijacker the whole conversation. That makes you a troll. For the person who made the comment, please explain what the W is for on motor oil and how oil is classified. Follow that up with the electrical definition of the difference between a bulb a lamp and a fixture. Get it right or shut up and let’s get back to the OP’s original post.

  • David Witheld January 2, 2015, 10:24 am

    Easiest decision you can make. When someone invades your home he has declared his intention and is fair game.

    And never, EVER let someone get within touching distance. It’s a missile weapon, not a club.

  • David Witheld January 2, 2015, 10:24 am

    Easiest decision you can make. When someone invades your home he has declared his intention and is fair game.

    And never, EVER let someone get within touching distance. It’s a missile weapon, not a club.

  • Tim H January 2, 2015, 10:06 am

    In my training which was taught by the police……”THE POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS” Mr Murphy should of never said a word to anyone with a microphone to start with…..Never talk to the media….Never! The only thing you ever want to say to anyone is to the police investigating the situation and to them “I’m sorry officer, “I am willing to cooperate as soon as I have had a chance to talk to my attorney”………….Murphy will be ok in this case because of the tussle that had occurred but he was lucky on this one. This 15 minutes of fame crap will sink you almost every time when the lawsuits start!

  • Ktate January 2, 2015, 9:49 am

    Let’s not confuse a burglary with a home invasion. In the United States, a home invasion is an illegal and usually forceful entry to an “occupied,” private dwelling with violent intent to commit a crime against the occupants, such as robbery, assault, rape, murder, or kidnapping….(wiki definition that rings true for metro New Orleans.)

  • Abner January 2, 2015, 9:40 am

    I really don’t want to blow away someone, and “it depends” is the best answer here. I think the deciding factor would be if, faced with the wrong end of a firearm, the perp would continue to advance against me. Otherwise, I’d lean toward telling him to “take the get-out-of-jail-free-card” I was handing him, and never show his face around my property again.

    Once again, depends on how it played out…

  • Lt. Donn January 2, 2015, 9:32 am

    It depends upon the laws in the jurisdiction where the event took place…for instance, if this type of crime occurred in Florida, where the “strongest” Castle Doctrine Law is in-force, the homeowner need not say or do anything other than shoot the intruder dead…contrast that with New Mexico, where I reside…under current NM Law, the homeowner must articulate a “reasonable” fear of death or great bodily harm fostered by some overt act committed by the intruder, before the homeowner can fire…this places too much of a burden on the homeowner, who being awakened @ 0300 hrs. by the sound of his door being kicked-in, must tab thru all the points of the law, while being invaded…New Mexico needs to legislate a “Castle Doctrine” Law like Florida!

  • Chris January 2, 2015, 9:28 am

    I wouldn’t have even tried the “Lone Ranger” shot in the leg in which he probably saved two lives. In this instance it’s center mass until the threat ends.

  • Big Dan January 2, 2015, 8:57 am

    One of the Northern Virginia Sheriff’s Deputy’s heard someone in his garage, saw an unidentified person moving toward him. Shot the “scumbag” only problem was the :”Scumbag” was his daughter who had come home late and was sneaking into the house through the garage, trying to avoid being caught. In another instance a home owner shot an unidentified intruder. The intruder was his neighbors son who had been drinking and thought he was sneaking into his own house through an unlocked window.
    The District Attorney of Houston, Johnny Holmes, (yes this was some time ago) spoke to a group of us and said that if you are not experiencing in immediate threat to your life or the life of another and you shoot someone, charges will be pressed.
    He went on to say that if you find someone running out your back door carrying a box of your grandmothers jewelry and you shoot them, you would be charged.
    Read Massad Ayoob’s articles in Handgunner or followed his writings. He has provided a number of real life situations where justifiable deadly force was used and the result was the shooter being either charged or sued. LPO’s having post traumatic issues from a shooting. Yes the shooting was justified, but was there anything I could have done to not take a life will haunt you for the rest of your life. And who had $50,000+ to pay the lawyer(s) to defend themselves.
    Not saying don’t protect your life or the life of another any way you can but you better be damn sure that at that moment you pull the trigger, you know who you are firing at and what their intensions are.

  • Randy briles January 2, 2015, 8:34 am

    “I’ve seen people entire clips at agents.” (Morpheus)

  • warren m January 2, 2015, 7:52 am

    I would have no problem pulling the trigger. I might have a problem with the actual thought of killing someone later. But that being said I would defend my wife with me own life. I would try to keep it non violent but when all else fails, I would shoot to stop the progress. If they keep coming I keep shooting.

  • Steve January 2, 2015, 6:37 am

    In many states it is legal to walk into a home if the door is not locked that is why you hear the phrase “breaking and entering”. In fact, it is not even considered trespassing unless a sign is posted “No Trespassing”. I ended up holding a man at gunpoint in my attached garage until the police arrived. The garage door was open, so he wasn’t even charged since he didn’t have any of my possessions on him when arrested. Fortunately, I did not just start shooting. Probably would not have been convicted, but would have had to endure a civil trial and the emotional duress of event.

  • Mr. G January 2, 2015, 6:31 am

    I’d rather be right than “Dead Right”…

  • Proud vet/Patriot January 2, 2015, 3:39 am

    As a retired Military man(22 plus years) and a deputy Sheriff I will tell you this from a professional point of view and a personal view. First-Professional. Never take the chance on a home invader NOT having a weapon or that you can take him physically, put then down immediately, then call 911. Second-Personal. Think of your family first, yourself second. Protect was is the most important to you first, then yourself. Remember, you shoot until the threat is eliminated or stays down. Remember, “It is always better to be tried by 12, than it is to be carried by 6.”

  • icwydt January 2, 2015, 3:26 am

    It depends…

  • michael December 2, 2014, 6:49 pm

    If they are in my home without my permission they are dead i work hard for my things and will keep them at all cost

  • rab December 1, 2014, 3:55 am

    I’ve had two attempted strong-arm type forced entries. I was young enough to battle with them. Two people maybe. Four on a good day. That was long, long ago. If you wait for the perp to show you mercy, you may be waiting for an eternity. I like walking away from confrontations. These days, people are nuts. They have no problem with killing you over a couple of dollars. It wasn’t until I got older, and learned to meet them with certain, overwhelming force, did the dumb shit stop. You must make an example. Word will get out! If not, they will keep testing.

  • Robert November 22, 2014, 6:59 pm

    For Doc… sorry about not getting back right away. Went to visit with a Nam vet today whose 30 lady companion is in Hospice having pancreatic cancer. My pastor and I were trying to minister to him. I love helping my fellow man if I can. Getting back to Beale AFB I once was employed in the early 80s in Marysville/Yuba City area working for the cable company to establish a TV guide for their programming. Did very well with it. When I drove up from Roseville I could many times see the Sr-71 taking off. The first experience I saw this smoky thing coming right at me and then suddenly he pulled up and disappeared out of sight in about 6 seconds. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I never had the privilege to serve in the military but had family that did. I appreciated what you guys did over there and was enraged that the then current administration would not let our troops go ahead and win the “war.” We lost too many good lives and suffered defeat when we could have taken the Cong out in a short time. Thank you for your service. I owe you and all others that ‘cup of coffee” in appreciation. Our nation is now in a fight for our liberty and survival as a free nation. I hope everyone who reads this post realizes that. I encourage everyone to be ready to fight and give your life if you have too. I will. This nation is a one of a kind and evil men are trying to destroy it in so many ways you can’t believe it. I do not want my grandchildren or 8 great grandchildren to be subservient to a nation federal government like they are trying to establish. God bless America!!

  • Russ November 19, 2014, 5:00 am

    The only way your going to live after breaking into my house is if you hit the deck spread eagle face down, were alone and did not move an inch until LEOs showed up.
    Or ran out real fast.

  • Chuck Scroggins November 18, 2014, 6:32 pm

    sending a round into the chamber of a 12 gauge pump is enough of a warning and should de-escalate any “situation”.

    • mtman2 July 18, 2016, 7:17 pm

      Unless they were both retarded, high on meth and crack and NEEDED another fix bad by stealing some stuff to hock fast for a quick $100 fix to get thru til tomorrow to repeat it again ~!

  • petru sova November 18, 2014, 11:41 am

    I forgot to mention that the magazine “The Gun Mag” formerly Gun Week ran a story in 2013 that told of a Police Officer that saw a man in the dark in his home one night. He used his techno-gadget (tritium sights) to gun down and kill the shadowy moving figure. Turned out it was his son who had come home early from college. The point of the story is, being a Police Officer he should have first identified his target by turning on a light or shinning a flashlight on and he should have not had those sights on his gun which made it much too tempting to shoot first and connect without the use of a light to identify his target first before blasting away in pure paranoia. That’s why I do not use that type of sight or a red dot sight either. You can take the risk of shooting someone who may be completely innocent but I will not. I do not even want to imagine what personal hell the Police Officer will be going through the rest of his life after accidentally killing his own son. Think about that next time you are tempted to use deadly force without making sure who you are shooting at first.

  • Charles Fowler November 18, 2014, 8:18 am

    When someone comes in your house at night, they suspect that you may be home and they don’t care. They will kill to get what they want. Night intruders are the most dangerous. Most night time intruders are capable of murder and rape besides robbery. Most likely they will shoot without warning the first person they see especially a man . Your best option is to light them up with a flashlight to make sure they are not family and then fire without warning. You have a few seconds to make this decision or you will probably die.

  • Doc November 18, 2014, 3:20 am

    I really hate to be a Buzz-Kill. What I’ve read here today I’ve been thinking about most of today. I was a Corpsman in combat in ‘Nam, and have seen deaths and wounds so horrific they defy words. ANYone who has been in combat has seen the same thing. I doubt that many younger folks here have ever been in a face-to-face confrontation with someone who really has only one thing on their mind, and that is to kill you. Wound is even better from a military point of view. And even then it’s kind of rough after that first kill. It Fuc*s people up. It’s why people who have been in combat don’t talk about it much. When you pull a trigger on someone it changes your life forever, and FAR more often than not – not in good ways. In bad ways. VERY bad ways.

    Let me say that again: If you kill someone it is inevitably going to change you in ways you do NOT want to be changed. And that change you will carry with you every-single-day-for-the-rest-of-your-life. It will invade your dreams at night, it will linger in the back of your mind every day. —- Every. Day. Forever.

    Being with Marines taught me one thing — we all have a duty to others to protect them, but when it comes to the individual Marine, it’s a personal decision, not a moral obligation. Killing is not something you do because you are brave, it’s done because you do not have ANY options left. That means you have assessed your environment and you have assessed the situation, and you make a THOUGHTFUL INFORMED ***CHOICE***.

    What I seem to be reading here are statements from people who have preconceived ideas about an environment they have not been in yet, and are confronting ideas of people, not people themselves. I am reading a lot of images people have of themselves, not thoughtful alternatives which move up the ladder of escalation. Most seem to jump straight to the top rung of the ladder, and pull the trigger. They want to do the last thing first. And that is bull-sh*t.

    Many, most, here seem to be of the mind that things are more important than human life. Let me ask you one question: Are you or are you not Christians? That is, do you believe that Jesus spoke the truth? If so, even if you are not Christian, I’d take the time to re-read the New Testiment and examine your true belief system. If you pretend to be Christian, and mindfully try to kill someone for taking objects which are merely ‘shadows’ when compared to the richness of human life, I’d suggest that you re-think the depth of your religious belief and faith.

    When you are defending others things change because you are putting others above yourself, but when you pull that trigger you will NOT be the same person you were before. Not to your partner, and not to your children. You will plunge them into situations they do not want to be placed in – and you place yourself in a situation you do not want to be involved in – and not for an hour or a day or a week, those are just the beginnings — that ONE act will change your forever. And that is a long, long, long time. Forty-five plus years seems like a long time to a lot of people. For me each incident that comes to mind seems like today or yesterday. So I let them all blur out and lock them all together in a box, but they always seem to pop out every so often. And they are not the most spiritual thoughts I’ve had in my life.

    If you think you are a Christian and your fist thought is to pull the trigger, I’d question on very fundamental levels your true understanding of your faith. No one here has asked the most fundamental question: What would Jesus do?

    I’m not saying that there is no killing that can be justified before God, I’m just saying that you need to think of firearms not in a separate compartment from God, but side-by-side with your God. Pulling the trigger should NEVER put you at odds against what you believe is justified in the eyes of your God and the Prophet of that God Whom you follow. “What would Jesus do?” might want to be part of your thought process — and if it’s not, you are probably not a True Christian.

    So, when you pull the trigger and you have not taken the time AT THAT MOMENT to assess the environment, assess the level of threat, and assess all options open to you SHORT of killing, or pulling that trigger, you probably should not own firearms.

    I cannot stress enough that when you shoot someone, especially if you kill them, your life will change forever. YOU will change forever. What happens there will not stay there, you AND YOUR FAMILY will carry that moment – that one split second as your firearm kicks back and up – forever. You will change your partner, you will change your children, and you may well make them rue the day YOU decided to add that burden to their lives, and you will put them through some VERY fundamental changes.

    “Hi. My name is Doc. And I’m a killer.” is NOT what you want for the rest of your life.

    There are times when it is NECESSARY to kill someone, I know that, just as any combat veteran knows it. And I know that most Vets I know would NOT EVER want to jump to killing as the first and only option they jump to. It is probably the LAST thing they want to do — ever.

    Material things are nice to have, but they are only shadows meant to confuse people who are seeking spiritual peace. They are transitory, they will ALWAYS go away. You CAN’T take them with you. They are inanimate objects and are really not worth a human life if you slow down and think about it. YOU are only a collection of atoms, the REAL you is what religions call your ‘soul’ – and THAT is what is most important.

    When you pull the trigger you are likely to damage your own property. How absolutely ironic it is that you’d shoot someone on say a $1, 000 or $2, 000 rug or sofa or in front of your billion inch flat screen TV and damage and perhaps destroy them in order to save them. We did that in ‘Nam — we killed people to save them, we destroyed villages to save them. And who won in THAT situation? No one. Not one single person – Allied or Gook — came out without a terrible horrific loss.

    I can say right now I am not a Christian, but I believe that Jesus was who He said He was. I lean towards non-violence because I have seen things no one should EVER see. I would not wish combat on my worst enimy, ever.

    It saddens me to see everyone so trigger happy that they do not really think the consequences through. What everyone says about that 1 second from the decision to pull the trigger (and perhaps condemn your soul to the farthest distance from God) and the bullet impact on your target is true. You have entered a world of legal nightmares and expenses you had never dreamed of, and created an event and an image which you will carry for the rest of your life. You have also created a completely new word for your partner and children. And that world is hopefully without images. They will be with you for a long time. Forever. And beyond.

    AND you have spiritual consequences as well. They are so very personal and individual I can only say that if you have none, that is if you have NO spiritual consequences you have to think about at 2 AM in the early morning of everyone’s soul, then you probably don’t believe in God. Killing without having a conscience that re-examines that one or two seconds of your life, makes you a killer without a conscience. It’s that simple.

    I don’t live in a large city. But I have. And I’ve worked with gangs. I’ve been threatened by gang members (sometimes comical and sometimes dead serious in how I look back at them). And my FIRST thought was NOT to pull a firearm to solve the confrontation. Words and body language do a lot to move a confrontation from a deadly head-on clash, to a near miss with everyone sighing that great sigh of relief.

    Unlike many (but certainly not all) on this list I’ve had to make that go-no-go decision many, many, many times, on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour basis. Anyone who’s been in combat knows what I mean. It DOES get to be ‘common’, it’s what you do ALMOST without thought – almost. And sometimes absolutely without thought. But living in a city is NOT the same as living in a combat zone no matter how badly you want to say it. The very fact that you have gone a week without shooting someone, or shooting at someone, makes that point very clear.

    I’ve said what I have to say. I have a few decisions to make right by my bedside and right near the entry doors. The FIRST decision is ‘do I need one?’ the next is ‘which one?’ and the most important QUESTION at that point is ‘why did I chose this option over ALL the others?”. At that moment – I have made a choice that WILL change my environments, it WILL change the behavior of both myself, and the other(s). And it will limit my decisions. Yes, LIMIT my decisions. It doesn’t expand them, it limits and constrain in what direction things may well move.

    I would HOPE that the very LAST option is to shoot at someone, not to kill them. Veterans will be the best at decision making because they have had to make that same decision many, many times in the past – and all they need to to is open that box again and let the Jin-Jins out for a moment before they lock it up tight again. Others have never been in a life-or-death situation, and it’s likely that they are not in one at the time they pick up a firearm – and it is very likely that someone just seeing you with a firearm will stop them and allow you to hold them until the police arrive. I live in a rural area so that can be a LONG time. If having a firearm incites them, and every situation is different — as much as they all seem the same — THEN you have a decision to make. And it should not be quick.

    Adrenalin can make you not think right. It’s why Marines have a saying “go slow to go fast”. It means that you practice slow, because adrenalin can make you move faster than your muscles can respond, and you fumble. If you practice slow, then when the adrenalin kicks in, you ARE moving faster, but still slow enough that you can think and move your muscles without fumbling. You will also go ‘tunnel vision’ and it’s not just your eyes and focus, it’s your mind as well. When it goes way too focused and you fail to see what others may see, you make poor decisions. What you DON’T see can land you in prison for a long time, and it can also put your partner and children out in the street homeless and penniless.

    So BEFORE you run any made up confrontations in your mind – Get right with your God, and make certain that you are following the Teachings of your Prophet — e.g. What would Jesus do? THEN think about ALL the options short of killing. Personally I’d take EVERY appropriate option short of pulling the trigger. If it took a warning shot, I’d take THAT shot over one to center mass or head (a miss). But there are lines which cannot be crossed.

    Most shooting happen inside 10 feet. I had a re-cert instructor from LAPD who said that LAPD had a saying: 10-1-1. That means that a person can cover ten feet in one point one seconds. That is NO wiggle room close. That is a no-time-for-decision reaction. Powder splatter will determine how far someone was when you shot, and 10 feet and closer is a no-brainer. And you should NEVER be in that position. Like others have said, people don’t just ‘fall down go boom’ when you shoot them. People take time to die (for the most part). It’s why you practice (you do don’t you?) in firing bursts of two or three, so when you are questioned, it’s muscle memory, not a decision.

    And that tricked out firearm you use? THAT is evidence that you are an ‘expert’ at firearms and their use – so even if you don’t use your tricked out AR or Sig, you are still a ‘firearms expert’ – your single tricked out rig is proof that you know exactly what you are doing around and with a firearm – that is evidence AGAINST you, not in your favor. It shows, at worst, that you are obsessed with firearms, and at best that you absolutely know exactly what you are doing, and have planned FAR in advance for the use of firearms. Not the best evidence in your favor if (and probably when) push comes to shove.

    Taking a life should be the LAST thing you can possibly think about, not the first. If you are someone who thinks that you should shoot first and ask questions later – or kill them all and let God sort it out — you should fail any and all background checks, and you are so irresponsible that you should not own a firearm. They are the LAST resort, not the first. Taking another life should be the LAST thing you do, not the first. Want my TV? Have it. It’s not worth the way it will change lives on both sides of the muzzle. And how ironic that cleaning up after you splatter blood all over your carpet, your sofa, your walls will cost far more than the TV or computer that they might be trying to get away with — you don’t save money by shooting someone. You just empty your bank account, you have robbed yourself. THAT is irony up close and personal.

    This from a Corpsman who carried a couple of firearms on most every ‘country stroll’ he took, and often as not used them for what they were made for on nearly every walk, and probably made some VERY seriously wrong decisions where they didn’t seem all that out of the ordinary until thinking started up again.

    I don’t mean to be preachy, I hate that. I just want to bring a real-world ‘bigger picture’ to the act of killing someone. It doesn’t start and stop in those moments or seconds leading up to pulling the trigger, that is not the end, it is only the beginning of your problems. So that moment when the trigger breaks better be the absolutely best decision of your entire life.

    I think I’ve read it here: you best sit down, alone with your God, and be more honest with yourself than you have ever been before and ask if you can, and would, kill someone. There is no shame in knowing deep down inside that you can’t – and there certainly is no honor in thinking that you might be able to. It is a decision beyond shame and beyond honor, they have NO place in making the decision. It is ONLY between your God and your Soul. And, of course, Law Enforcement and the Justice System. So it’s time to have that ‘Come To Jesus’ talk with your soul – and either way, there is no right or wrong answer, there is no honor or shame – there is ultimately just your Soul and your God. No more and no less. Just those two.

    You will face your God naked and alone. And you will explain, in some capacity, why the decision you made was the right spiritual decision. And you will be judged not by YOUR belief of what happened, but by a far more impartial judge, what or who ever that might be. It’s not a legal decision you made, it’s a spiritual decision. Don’t confuse the two.

    • Robert November 18, 2014, 12:10 pm

      Doc, with all due respect I’ll try to respond to your comments. First, I am a Christian, a “born again Christian”. That is something you ought to consider seriously because if you don’t, I suggest you read the 20th and 21st chapter of Revelation and see what happens to those who do not have their names in the Book of Life. Being a born again Christian means Christ died for all your sines past, present and future. As they say, “I’m only a sinner saved by grace.” John 3:16 through vs 18 explains it as plain as you will read it. Now to self protection. there is a definite line drawn by Christians who are facing the prospect of death. The scriptures plainly teach that one who does not provide (and protect) their family are worse than infidels. If someone is trying to kill me because I am a Christian (thousands have faced this in Africa and Syria recently being killed by the terrorists who claim they are serving their god) that is a different scenario, but if someone is breaking into my house to rob or/and kill me or family members I have the right to defend myself and my family. Read up on the Castle Doctrine laws recently passed by many states and you will see plainly defined what you are allowed to do. As far as reaction, any law enforcement officer, and military person, as you have pointed out, will tell you that practice means less mistakes. Ask any Army Ranger or Navy Seal if they are debating what they will do when clearing a room or house if they come up against a perp that has the intent to kill them. They do not enter into a debating society session. They will do what they are trained to do. I mentioned before that I worked at an entry post to Altus AFB, a critical facility for the armed forces. I was a “contract officer” taking the place of the military police who were assigned over in Afghanistan to train the natives there proper police tactics. I and others I worked with took their place. That was in the midst of the war in Iraq. We were only armed with the Beretta 92M pistols, no rifles. So, if a terrorist decided to attack the base I had 30 9mm rounds and a radio to defend myself and fellow officers. We were at risk as much as any police officer on the street yet people referred to us as rent-a-cops.” Very insulting. I did not consider then, as I would have at home, if I would shoot anyone attacking me with a weapon. That is a split second decision you have to make and you had better be prepared in advance to know what you will do. My question to any that were working with me was “will you shoot to kill anyone who is attacking me with a weapon?” My question was framed that way because we worked at the commercial gate where one of us had to go out in the approach driveway and search and investigate any and all vehicles, including semi trucks, for hidden bombs, weapons, etc. I wanted to know if my partner would defend me in the event a weapon was pulled on me. I wanted to go home alive after my 12 hour shift like anyone who has to carry a weapon on the job.

      So, you made some valid points and I hope I have too. Someone has published a booklet entitled “What will happen after you shoot?’ and I would advise anyone who does not have a plan to get it and read it. Yes there are consequences. Make sure they are in your favor.

      • Doc November 18, 2014, 3:46 pm

        Robert, very good comments, thoughtful. Thank you.

        Won’t address the religious parts except to – nope, won’t go there. There is no need if what ever you do is forgiven before hand. I won’t argue doctrine here. In your framework of belief and interpretation of The Holy Bible, you ARE absolutely correct. (Just don’t forget that Nazi’s were mostly Protestant, so had the same God on their side as other non-Catholic/Orthodox Christians. That is why I really can’t and won’t argue doctrine.).

        1) Special Forces: They are in a War Zone, they are in the Military, and in Combat with a clear ‘mission’ in mind – rules change. But the folks who shoot 10 or 12 year old kids in a firefight because they came around the corner of a building at the wrong time, or get up and try to run for better cover will never forget it, it’s hard to justify. Even when you KNOW you made the ‘right’ decision in the heat of battle, it nearly always seem wrong. In Combat people go mad. It’s that simple. Even finding a kid hit by ‘spraying’ a known and identified target is hard. And it takes a LONG time to become ‘hardened’ against the kind of moral and intellectual horror found when co-lateral damage is found, and that damage is a young child.

        2) The “Castle Law” – That is a legal concept, not a spiritual concept. It doesn’t change the Moral/Ethical decisions you have to make. It simply says that YOU HAVE to make the correct moral or ethical decision, it’s not covered by ‘policy’ by any other name (SOP, rules of engagement, etc). When you take a job that may require deadly force, the criteria is pre-set by your employer and THEY carry most, but not all, of the responsibility. Even when you ‘do it by the numbers’ it does not remove you from the emotional and psychological consequences of living with the sounds and smells of death. And, if at home it’s even more muddy, YOU make the ‘rules of engagement’ and you take full responsibility. Even then it does not spare your family.

        3) EXCELLENT question: “Will you shoot to protect ME? – In that situation if a person doesn’t understand a simple commands like “STOP!!!” GET ON THE GROUND!!! NOW!!!” if they are running for the cab, you have a duty to your Brother. If someone presents with a firearm, you have a DUTY to your Brother. It’s not the same as your home. It’s a MILITARY base, and anyone who messes around at military bases these days is a kind of stupid that’s hard to cure.

        But even then, your ‘shooting’ will be investigated and you better have enough evidence and met the criteria for a ‘good shoot’, “I thought . . . ” is generally not good enough evidence. Even if you REALLY WERE thinking correctly and your Brother felt ‘it’ too.

        I’m not one to discount ‘just a feeling’. I’ve had many and many were wrong, and a few were absolutely correct – there IS such a thing as a ‘funny feeling that something is not right’. Those are the folks you want on ‘point’ and in ‘rear’. But try defending it in legal situations. It won’t fly, even if completely valid for that very specific moment in time and space. If they find a firearm or other weapon, suddenly you are ‘right’ no weapon and you are ‘wrong’. There is very little gray in Rule of Law. AND I presume you were on CCTV and the entire incident is on tape.

        Inside your home you have FAR more choices than you do when your job requires you to make those decisions. I doubt you ever pulled your sidearm, though you may have unsnapped it in the line of duty. “On duty” and “In my house” are two different environments. You have FAR more options off duty than you do on duty. Think about being in barracks — you piss someone off, and they WILL beat your ass. You know it, and they know it. Do you get your issued side arm, or do you simply deal with it another way?

        See what I mean?

        4) Whether on-duty or off, shooting or killing is the LAST resort. I doubt that even at work you’d often find yourself pulling a trigger without screaming some kind of “STOP!”. Yes there are times. Those same times can happen inside your home, but not all that often, just as they don’t happen all that often while on-duty.

        Your post was most thoughtful, THANK YOU ROBERT!

        • Robert November 19, 2014, 4:00 pm

          Doc, good comments from you also. As far as what we could do on the military base the orders were “if you draw your weapon you had better be prepared to shoot to defend yourself and others with you.” We were not allowed to “unsnap” our weapons. To draw out the weapon without a legitimate reason was a call for immediate firing. No excuses! So you see we had to be correct. We could not even draw out our batons in horseplay because you can severely injure or kill a person with them if you are trained. I was and was good at it. I am certified in baton usage. I didn’t mention that when I took the job I was 72 years old and had to compete with 25 year old “kids” in training. My trainers thought I was lying about my age. Ha! A great experience so glad I never had to draw the weapon. One serviceman told me I spooked him whenever he came on base. I always stood on curb with my right hand resting on the baton, I took the IDs with my left hand and examined them before handing them back. You couldn’t believe how quick I could draw it at ready for use. The gun was right behind the baton. You see, they all had to hand over their ID to you for identification before they were allowed to enter the base. That included everyone right up to the base commander so you see we were not kidding. One dumb young military family member came in one time with a replica pistol on the floorboard and the officer yelled “gun” and placed his hand on his weapon. Nearly scared the kid out of his pants. He had foolishly cut the orange tip off the replica. We were even authorized to pull the cars into a place behind the gate house and search the car if we thought there was something illegal going on. So you see we had a different set of rules compared to the cop on the street. Military bases are an entity all their own and what they say goes. I had a great time working there and had to quit over health issues after a year on the job. Sorry I had to go.

          • Doc November 20, 2014, 3:10 am

            Robert — boy I’d like to buy you a beer or cup of coffee because I think we are on the exact same page down to to the dotted ‘i’s’ and crossed ‘t’s’ — It’s start slow and low and polite – FAR fewer problems — and demeanor says the ten thousand words that probably ought to be said before anyone draws any sidearm — and that alone can defuse a situation before it even develops. But when business goes from the formal friendlies and smiles at for you know, to the one second escalation time and the simple change of face and tone of voice if you screw up, everyone understands the rules – entrance to a nuke base (we have Travis and Beale (I think they had 2 SAC wings at Beale – I DO know they had the SR-71 since I’d see it landing when I was going to college after Nam – with Beale within air-burst distance from us — during the practice scrambles of the early 60’s – in summer mom would just say – let’s go have a cup of hot chocolate on the back deck overlooking the creek and watch the bombers and jets – we thought she was being cool and nice and letting us stay up late — not figuring that if this one was real, her thoughts were it’d be better to die in the fireball and start of the first blast wave than in the flying rubble and forest fires that would follow). Those places were serious – home is different –

            And I suspect we’d get along just fine talking over coffee or a beer — and agree FAR more than not.

            I think we understand each other. There are places we can go – but it’s not were we want to go unless we have to – and it’s really not up to us, it’s more up to the person we are confronting. Common sense and old age makes people a LOT safer – and (heh-heh) FAR more dangerous because we look harmless. We don’t need to prove anything to folks, we know the score – they don’t – and by the time they figure out we know to be serious without being a threat, things will end far differently than they would with a trigger happy kid.

            Yep, if ever we meet – I’d LOVE to buy you a cup of coffee or a beer or stronger – I think we’d have some pretty good stories to tell.

            Thank you for being a voice of reason in a world gone mad. And while I’m from Cali, I see that you are simply OK all around!! Yep, I think we’d have a good time. Thank you for being about as close to sane as I’ve found recently. You don’t need to be a cowboy because you are one. And I don’t need to prove anything because if a Corpsman can’t show something in the first firefight with a brand new unit, he won’t ever have to worry about a second chance!

            Thank you for being thoughtful, sane, and far more right than wrong! — I owe you at least a cup of good coffee if not a good single malt and dinner to go with it!

    • Rob January 2, 2015, 9:05 am

      Thank you for your postings Doc. You are a very wise man.

    • Ron February 22, 2016, 8:57 am

      What does being “Christian have to do with it?” If someone breaks into my house I’m all for turning the perp into a spirit ASAP! If there is a God the perp is going to meet him before I do. 11B2P (2/509) I don’t turn the other cheek!!!!

    • charles November 4, 2016, 7:24 am

      in my view , although your sentiments are commendable , they could result in YOUR death and/or those of loved ones in your home . too much thinking = hesitation and death of you and yours . the home invader made his/her choice , they took the risk and its ALL on them for whatever happens . they do what they do and that decides for me what i do . no. i will not cry and wine and second guess myself . i will do what situations that THEY created, brought me to do. the more complicated your ” self defence ” plan is , the less likely it will work . you sir can spend precious seconds trying to GUESS how in danger you are , while i will be eliminating the immediate threat to me and mine .and wont second guess it . different people feel differently , i wish you luck .

  • Ron November 17, 2014, 11:23 pm

    I hope every *Shoot first and ask questions later* cowboy who spouted off publicly here realizes -IF- they EVER have the misfortune to have to use deadly force in their defense, their words WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT THEM. There is NO anonymous posting to the internet, your victim’s attorney WILL find your boastful words and use them to hang you. Sometimes the best policy when you “carry a big stick” is to keep your mouth shut. Just sayin…

    • Russ November 19, 2014, 4:50 am

      Cowboys are honest and trust worthy people that obey the law and don’t shoot in the back or without good reason.
      So they have nothing to worry about if what comes out of their mouth is the truth.
      Being in court is way better than being in the ground.
      Calling people Cowboys is a term of endearment, I hope you know that Ron.

  • Ron November 17, 2014, 11:22 pm

    I hope every *Shoot first and ask questions later* cowboy who spouted off publicly here realizes -IF- they EVER have the misfortune to have to use deadly force in their defense, their words WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT THEM. There is NO anonymous posting to the internet, your victim’s attorney WILL find your boastful words and use them to hang you. Sometimes the best policy when you “carry a big stick” is to keep your mouth shut. Just sayin…

  • Ron November 17, 2014, 11:21 pm

    I hope every *Shoot first and ask questions later* cowboy who spouted off publicly here realizes -IF- they EVER have the misfortune to have to use deadly force in their defense, their words WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT THEM. There is NO anonymous posting to the internet, your victim’s attorney WILL find your boastful words and use them to hang you. Sometimes the best policy when you “carry a big stick” is to keep your mouth shut. Just sayin…

  • Sean Gadhar November 17, 2014, 10:37 pm

    I managed liquor stores for about 18 year and have come away with some vary mixed thoughts on the subject. In general, I won’t use hard force (force that will LIKLEY do bodily harm) to save stuff. So if I come home and some guy is walking out my broken door with my TV I’m going to drive on by & call 911. If I’m home alone & some guy comes through the window and is unarmed I’ll give him a chance to go back out. If however My Wife, Son, or other loved one is home, then my losing a fight would endanger their life. In that case I would use any & every means available to me to win.
    In short, I’m willing to lose STUFF in order avoid taking a life. I’m even willing to put my own life a some level of risk, in order to avoid taking a life. Lastly I’m willing to take the life of a dangerous criminal (home invader, car jacker, armed robber) without hesitation if it is in protection of a loved one.

    • Fred FLint January 2, 2015, 5:11 pm

      Some people seem very excited at the chance to kill a criminal, even a petty thief who wants to steal your laptop and run to the pawn shop. I just don’t understand the enthusiasm for homocide. If you try to persuade some caution- all you get is a harangue about the perps automatically raping your wife and children if you don’t empty a Glock into their chest. I have been in combat, etc and enjoy guns. I even keep a loaded revolver in a safe. But this is for a real emergency. Armed Home Invaders – sure. Blast away. But lets not start blasting everything in our path at the slightest provocation. Where I live you can shoot a home invader, but make sure it is not the local SWAT Team with the wrong address.

  • Roger November 17, 2014, 9:35 pm

    I’m not sure why “It Depends” prompts so many comments. But I suppose the act of home invasion is such a violent crime, it congers up all sorts of scenarios. Which begs the question; when do we start firing? A simple burglary is all together another question; giving us enough time to arm ourselves. I assume Blannelberry wants to include burglary within the Home Invasion definition. My thought in any armed scenario I can think of would be to do as taught in all CHL classes I’ve attended; De-escalate, attempt to arrest the assailant. However an invasion doesn’t give us time to arm ourselves thus making avoidance a more effective approach. In any case stay vigilant just as all these comments may suggest. An odd occurrence happened to me this past Thursday. Even though it was more an invasion with little time to react, I attempted to subdue my attacker. When I couldn’t ply a pit bulls jars from the throat of my dog after a 5 minute struggle, my son-n-law was forced to shoot it. We felt badly for the dogs and angered at the pits’ owner. Acting responsibly was the key here and too, always think clearly and react responsibly.

  • Joe Elmore November 17, 2014, 8:58 pm

    Life is too short people!! We all know what he meant.

  • dennis mccomis November 17, 2014, 7:03 pm

    I worked as a field service agent for So. California Gas Co. for 32 years , as the “GAS MAN” I was required to enter customers yards , homes, and workplaces to check for gas leaks , service gas appliances and turn gas service off and on.ect. Most of my house calls were generated by the customer calling the company, about 1/2 involved entry access instructions if the customer was not home when we arrived, EG. key hidden, back door unlocked ect. This resulted in my entering homes many times when not everyone in the house was aware I was there in spite of ringing the doorbell knocking on the door and when entering shouting gas man , gas company is anyone here. dont shoot gas man. If there were sounds of anyone inside, shower on ,footsteps I would not go beyond the door and leave a note on the door and come back later. About 1% would lay low call 911 or arm themselves and wait untill I was doing my work inside and then confront me in an angry manor resulting in a tense few moments before the reason that I was inside was sorted out. IT IS BEST TO ASK WHO IS THERE BEFORE BLASTING AWAY.

    • SJ January 2, 2015, 6:09 am

      Given your situation, I don’t care what thed job was. I would absolutely NOT go into the house on suggestions of “the key is under the mat” or “the back door is unlocked”. I would always leave a note (I’m sure you had plenty of pre-printed ones on hand) that I was there and did not enter the house on account of no one was home. Entering the house puts you at risk of everything you already mentioned, plus the fact that they can claim “something is missing”…
      No one at home = no inside service, period. Too much of a liability.

  • Karl November 17, 2014, 5:01 pm

    One thing to realize in any and virtually ALL of these scenarios regardless of how the criminal got into your house but lets consider the fact that if you live through the encounter you WILL BE SUED for your actions, this is regardless of how many times you pulled the trigger, regardless of if you killed the criminal and is some cases regardless of if YOU were killed in the encounter, your family or estate will then be sued! Its todays society get over it! The best you can do in this situation is to win the confrontation that means you LIVE and that comes first! We just need to as people who are in fear of our lives act accordingly and with just cause, after the fact and you realize that your still alive the criminal threat has been stopped and your family is safe you need to call the police, remember to tell only the facts and do not describe everything to the officer that comes to you door, he is not going to want to talk much right away any way an he will have his gun out when he walks up. when your interviewed by the investigator then you can talk and make sure your attorney is with you first! It will take time and your life will be changed forever because of your decisions in the fraction of a second but your alive! After saying all that I would shoot first and ask questions later, I refuse to give my ONE advantage surprise! Lets hope none of us will ever have to make these decisions!

  • Eric November 17, 2014, 3:51 pm

    Here is the deal. I don’t want to kill another human being unless provoked to the point that it is necessary. That entails that I will attempt to conduct a “citizens arrest” before going further. If the “perpetrator” persuades me through the display of a weapon (an object that can cause physical harm or death), or by verbal communication and physical action that it is necessary to defend myself or my family, I’ll shoot until the gun stops making noise.

    I’m not about to judge this guy, I wasn’t there and I’m not a member of the jury.

  • Robert November 17, 2014, 2:52 pm

    Many interesting comments above but the down and dirty is this. In my training as an armed security officer so I could qualify to be an armed gate officer at an Air Force base as well as my CCW training we were always told that at the end of the day we finish alive. Do you know that a person with a knife 12 feet away can still wound or kill you even if you shoot or kill them while they are rushing? No one dies immediately and they will get a knife in you before they go to the ground. Another rule of law is do not shoot anyone if they are running away. It has been decided in court when the threat is gone you have no duty to shoot. Anyone facing you and charging or walking towards you is different. Then the “Castle Law” kicks in and you have the right to defend yourself. All that being said I hope I never have to shoot and kill anyone but am determined I will do so if necessary. No questions asked. Today’s society is different than when I was growing up. I am 80 years old and intend to live as long as God lets me naturally.

  • DaveGinOly November 17, 2014, 2:11 pm

    Mas Ayoob says, “A person going for your gun is a person going for a gun.” If you have a firearm and someone comes at you, I think it’s eminently reasonable to assume that person is after your gun, or at least could make an attempt to seize it. At that point, you are rightfully in fear that your assailant is attempting to access a firearm (yours) and you are well within your rights to shoot that SOB.

    By my lights, as a juror I would never convict anyone of shooting a criminal who hadn’t already surrendered or turned to run. More people are killed with fists and feet than are killed with so-called “assault rifles”; they are arguably “dangerous weapons.” There are hundreds of YouTube videos showing one-hit KOs on the street. Many of those are followed up by stomping and kicks to the head. Once unconscious, you can easily be killed, so the mere threat of being KO’d is potentially lethal. I don’t believe that self-defense is a game in which you must wait to see what level of force might be perpetrated against you, because in the time you’re waiting to make that evaluation, your attacker can successfully execute a deadly attack – by the time you recognize it as such, if you do at all, it may be too late. I don’t think that any law-abiding citizen should have to put his own life in jeopardy out of consideration for the safety of a criminal assailant. The criminal is an outlaw – meaning that he is outside the law of his own volition – and is therefore outside of its protections (at least momentarily) that would normally influence the law-abiding person to avoid killing him.

    Every criminal assault is potentially lethal. The criminal may be armed even when no weapon is apparent, he may have confederates, of whom you are not aware, ready to jump into the fray, he may have fighting skill, and he may just get lucky and get the drop on you. I don’t believe any law-abiding citizen should have to wait until it is potentially too late in order to defend himself with lethal force. Indeed, because hands and feet are themselves potentially lethal, does not their use in lawful self-defense constitute the use of lethal force? Obviously, their use does constitute such force. The fact is that any level of response to force is potentially lethal, just as any force initiated against you is also potentially lethal, even when the initial force can only incapacitate; incapacitation will leave you unable to respond to increased levels of force at a time when you’re unable to defend your life. Wouldn’t it be better to defend your life while you are able? I don’t think citizens are obligated to wait until it may be too late to make that observation and the law should not oblige them to do so. As a juror, I would consider any such law to be an infringement upon the citizens’ rights to their own lives, and would render my verdict accordingly.

  • Elder November 17, 2014, 1:21 pm

    “Assuming you have gun in hand, and you take the intruder by surprise as Murphy did to Long, do you give a command in an attempt to de-escalate the situation and use non-lethal force to subdue the suspect,”Hands up, get on the ground!” or do you simply open fire until the threat is neutralized?”
    Seriously? Have any of you had serious training in CCW to include local law on the topic? If you have then you are familiar with the “action vs reaction” drill. Action ALWAYS wins! If you want a discussion with the intruder, wait until he recovers in the hospital. Shoot until the threat is neutralized. Report to 911 and your lawyer Immediately after hanging up with 911.

  • Kevin November 17, 2014, 12:13 pm

    Had a buddy that was involved in a justified shooting, killing his attacker. $125K later he was out from under a aggravated assault charge and a civil suit. Mind you, I would have done the same thing in those circumstances, but be prepared for the aftermath. There are consequences that go with deadly force. The only winners as is typical are the lawyers!

  • john November 17, 2014, 12:10 pm

    it is more times than not to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. anyone breaking into my home is doing so with the intent to do harm to me and mine. if some family has to cry over some grave it is my solum duty to protect my loved ones and property if that means putting anyone with the intent to harm in that grave. Even 10 year olds with a gun and no respect for another’s life or property can kill, than all the bleeding hearts can say that if he had a better life he would not have been there doing what he did. He was only a product of his environment. Well he will never do anything like that again because it is hard to repeat these acts when you are 6 feet under and are worm food , as for his family suing than they should have done a better job raising and teaching then respect for others.

  • Butch November 17, 2014, 12:03 pm

    In a town nearby in rural Connecticut called Cheshire, there was a horrific home invasion where two deranged men followed a mother and daughter home where another daughter and father were at the time. They repeatedly raped the mother and daughters and beat the father with a baseball bat until they believed he was dead. They then tied the mother and daughters to their beds and set the rooms on fire. All three died, the father escaped. The girls were just 11 and 17. This event re-enforced my philosophy that if anyone were to break into my house that did not belong there, they would be met with immediate and lethal force.

  • Glock_10 November 17, 2014, 11:28 am

    If I surprise the intruder I will tell him to hit the floor if he hesitates I will pull the trigger until he does……If you kick in the door while I’m watching TV it will surprise me and without hesitation I will shoot until you hit the floor..

  • Mountain Man November 17, 2014, 11:01 am

    You should never attempt to shoot an intruder in your home. Besides, gun are dangerous and very bad. It is much better to scream, “I HAVE A GUN!” (preferably in a very high-pitched voice), then wave a flashlight around or blow a whistle. Do whatever you can to barricade yourself inside a room, or climb out a window and run away. That way, the intruders will be free to move on to their next victim, preferably some elderly woman, raping and murdering with impunity because you chose not to stop them. At least you didn’t get sued, or have to go to court. It is ALWAYS best to let the bad guy be someone else’s problem, right?

    Good grief. Let’s all have a Coke and smile, and share warm urban legends about the scumbag who was spared, and returned 10 years later to give the homeowner a sweater he knitted in prison.

    My policy and mindset – this is my home, my property, my place of refuge and peace, and no one is going to take that away from me. I am all that stands between an intruder and my wife and children. I will not negotiate. I will not call out. I will not wait to see if they are armed. I will not give them a chance to escape and come back later. I do not care what their intentions may be; it is not my job to discern them.

    Yes, I have been there. My only problem was replacing the carpet.

    • Airborne 1 November 17, 2014, 11:40 am

      I love Mountian Man’s input! We have two groups of people. Gun people and Non-gun people. The non- gunner will be taken advantage of, robbed, get shot in McDonalds, a movie house, a school, or anywhere some wacko decides or hopes…there are no “Gun-people” around. Then their spouse or family member will go on and on about how they forgive the killer for such a horrible act…BS…When the shi* hits the fan with an earthquake, loss of power, subversive forces invading, whatever…these people will be on MY doorstep asking if I have a extra gun to loan them. NO!

      • Mountain Man November 17, 2014, 11:48 am

        Airborne all the way, brother. 🙂

  • tom baldwin November 17, 2014, 10:54 am

    aim first! say nothing. fire.

  • Sam November 17, 2014, 10:49 am

    I always try to de-escalate a situation like this. They are told to lock their hands behind their head and go to their face on the floor. Any other move puts them on the floor in whatever position they drop with at least two .45 slugs in their chest. Any forward movement on their part gets them dead. I have been there and done that, and would much rather live with the fact I took another man’s life than to die knowing I had left my family/ community at the mercy of someone that is willing to injure or kill for profit.

  • Airborne 1 November 17, 2014, 10:48 am

    People just kill me…the thought of NOT shooting someone in your house the minute they break and enter (it they’re that stupid or strung out) is very ridiculous . There are some people (and I observe them at the handgun counter of a gun store) who think a gun is something to “Scare away” an intruder. God only hopes you don’t live next door to one, ’cause the bullet they fire will most likely miss the intruder and end up going through YOUR wall and killing you. The only reason I would issue a command to the intruder, was to get them to turn around so the roundS would not enter through their BACK! Then it would be hard to say they were threatening me. If someone is desperate enough to break into a home, they KNOW that person may be armed, but are taking the chance that they’re not, they’re rolling the dice. No professional thief who breaks in to steal stuff for personal gain will do that when he knows you are around. If you are facing someone in your home who breaks in it’s because they are going to do anything to take what’s yours to get money for drugs, etc. They represent clear and present danger to you and your family and need to be taken out immediately!

  • gym November 17, 2014, 10:30 am

    Been there with 5 armed men, “SHOOT, and keep shooting” or you will die. If they get away, they will always come back.

  • brian November 17, 2014, 10:12 am

    Bruce’s last paragraph is true. In Vermont a few years ago, one man attacked another with an axe. I believe it was over a drug deal gone bad. Defender shot attacker with a 30-06 rifle using 2 shots. Second shot was after attacker was wounded from first shot. After pressure from attacker’s rich Massachussetts parents, defender was charged with murder. Defender was CONVICTED. Granted, this was outdoors, not in the home, but shows you want to be very careful when you defend yourself, especially if there are witnesses.

    And as Greg said, what if it’s just a drunk who stumbled into the wrong house or a lost & confused old woman with Alzheimers? I’m not at all defending home invaders or other criminals, just saying our ability to defend ourselves, our families, and our homes comes with a responsibility to think carefully before shooting.

    • Georgann November 17, 2014, 11:10 am

      A simple drunk or patient with Alzheimers will not forcibly kick in the door. No drunk will mistake my house for his own because of where I live. We have had two encounters with “trespassers” who tried to get into our home. Neither got into the house due to facing greater force – one with two grown men running at him full force, one with three guns aimed at him. Both were picked up by the police. Had either one actually gotten into the house, we were prepared to shoot them.

  • John November 17, 2014, 10:07 am

    You neutralize the threat first,you do not have the luxury to wait and see if he will comply that could be your demise.You have no idea if he is armed or not.My opinion especially being 70 years old and not as strong as I used to be but armed.

  • John L November 17, 2014, 9:55 am

    With age comes wisdom. Being armed allows me the ability to assess the situation. Like you, I have ZERO desire to shoot another human being ( even if they deserve it ). Taking a life should always be the last thing on your mind, and a last resort. Someone breaks into my house? I am grabbing my wife and heading out the opposite door. We would both be armed of course, we are not stupid. I have often joked with friends that I will only get in a gunfight if I can’t outrun the other guy. Bottom line, I don’t need the aggravation of having the police or judicial system deciding my fate. Granted, my children are grown and out, so that allows me a little more leeway. A parent defending children? Whole different scenario. Every person needs to come up with their own plan ahead of time. And yes, I have had a few armed confrontations. Never had to pull the trigger yet.

    • mtman2 July 18, 2016, 7:44 pm

      If one knows they wouldn’t use their weapon or won’t own one- Cold Steel makes hi-volume foaming bearspray.
      Effective even at 30 ft and they ain’t going anywhere to soon- just a thot ~!

  • Martin Wade November 17, 2014, 9:29 am

    Having been a police office and served in the military, I have been trained to assess the situation and meet it with enough force to neutralize the opponent.
    However, in this day and age, I have to decide whether or not I can afford to complete that assessment. Plus with the cost of ammunition, I’m not certain I can afford a warning shot!

  • Ken Wilkinson November 17, 2014, 9:22 am

    I suggest you be aware of your State’s law regarding use of deadly force in self defense before needing to pull the trigger.
    Most States require that before you use DPF in defense of a person that a threat of death or great bodily harm be imminent.
    Also the use of DPF must be necessary.
    Next it must be used with safety to innocent parties.
    In most States even if the three requirements listed are met after a use of DPF expect to be arrested, investigated and possibly sued civilly.
    Knowing all this I suggest avoiding the use of DPF if reasonably possible.
    Stay SAFE,

  • bruce November 17, 2014, 8:49 am

    After being married in 1979 my wife and I moved to New Orleans, LA where I enrolled in seminary. We lived off campus in an apartment near the lake. During the two years we lived there we dealt with three attempted break-ins. The first two we faced together as they tried to come in through the bedroom window. The last time I handled the matter myself as I has just got in from the shipyard. I saw no need to shoot anyone. As soon as they were challenged, they ran. Later we rented a shotgun double off Carrollton Ave. One morning following some high water, I woke to find a man leaning in the bedroom window. He was standing in a boat that he’d pulled alongside the house. I probably would have pulled the trigger on the shotgun but my wife persuaded me otherwise.

    I say all this for a reason. I’ve shot all manner of game animals at distances from several football fields to hard off the muzzle. Not one single one of them ever got up and walked away. On a couple of occasions I’ve shot some animals that were about to hurt my pets. On one occasion it was my children that were threatened. It is a different matter when a man is involved. All talk to the contrary is just talk. There is never any lack of talk such things as what to do in the event that one must confront a intruder, etc. The very first and absolutely best step is to use common sense and put in proper thoughtful security, i.e., fence, lights, locks, alarms, etc. These are far far cheaper than hiring a lawyer, going to court, etc.

    If confronted with a intruder it is far far better to challenge them and run them off than to start spraying rounds ala cowboy style self-defense scenarios. The local prosecutor, judge, etc. are never wearing stetson hats or spurs. They don’t nooses with thirteen wraps, but they do routinely go for the most extreme charge possible and hand down the most extreme sentence possible. Living years of life in prison and then probation as well as loosing your 2nd Amendment rights is a tough price to pay for dropping the hammer on a man just because somewhere sometime or other you thought it was the best way to handle a situation.

    Obviously this sort of approach will not satisfy those of an apocalyptic mindset who imagine the worst situation possible and then suppose to imagine the most extreme internet ninga warrior response possible. But, the above reflect what has been the actual experience of my wife and I in dealing with attempted break-ins first to a ground floor apartment and then a small little house in the downtown area of New Orleans. I do not at all regret the way we handled those incidents. I’ve been in one kitchen where things were handled differently by a homeowner. He emptied a .357 Magnum into a man. Then he reloaded and emptied the gun again. Problem was the man he was shooting was not armed. The second time around he was lying on floor, still alive. It’s hard to explain blasting a unarmed man on the floor when he’s already bad hit. Think… the prosecutor, judge, etc. They aren’t cowboys. And, they live in gated communities not castles.

    • Russ November 17, 2014, 6:50 pm

      You need to alarm your widows like I mentioned to Charles above.
      That sounds like fairyland to me “bruce” with a small b.
      Here in Anaheim California, the guys breaking in come in gangs and carry firearms.
      They’re well organized and have their friends on the cell phone and will home invade fast and furiously.
      So we “cowboys” which I take as a term of endearment from you, will shoot their ass dead when they break in.
      I don’t live in your world bruce, and sadly you and your poor wife would not survive in mine.

      • bruce November 18, 2014, 11:53 pm

        I write of incidents that occurred from 1979-1982 in New Orleans, La. You are of course at least aware in a rudimentary manner of what are the circumstances where you live, either real or imaginary. Given that you reside in the once golden state, you are doubtless well aware of the consequences that will entail if you choose to shoot anyone dead, Anaheim is almost certainly not an area where a jury of what are supposed to be your peers will well regard you or anyone else blasting away at anyone criminal or otherwise. They will not be cowboys. The won’t ride horses. They’ll be in the jury box because they couldn’t find a way out. They’ll likely not look like you or think like you. And they’ll almost certainly have more in common with whoever it is you expect will be the criminal involved. Hopefully you’ll have plenty of money or property because you’ll need it to pay the legal fees involved in your defense. Even if you win, you’ll loose. Good lawyers are expensive.

        If you suppose yourself to be at actual risk of a gang assault, you are very well advised to use a modicum of common sense with regard to home security, i.e., fence, lights, alarms, bars on windows, maybe a dog in the yard, etc. If you figure your first and best defense is a loaded gun, then you are well and truly very ill informed.

        I have lived in all sorts of places from New Orleans up to NYC and assorted points in between. If one looks hard enough, in any major city in any state of the union one will find the very worst of humanity on parade. Dwelling on such stuff by focusing on the equivalent of internet yellow press only makes it worse. Reality is that while there are places in cities where things are not safe, for the most part such places are not the norm. For most folks, normal does not entail nightly preparation to repel armed intruders. It simply is not their concern. Millions and millions of Americans go about their business without such concerns, even in Anaheim. Back between 1979 and 1982 my wife and I lived in one of those metropolitan areas where crime was a problem. We dealt with it. No body got shot much less killed. It doesn’t make hot copy for some lurid story to titillate the interests of arm chair domestic warriors. But, when my wife and I had to deal with those incidents, we were not to particularly concerned with what anyone else thought on the matter. We simply handled it. Now a little over thirty years later, we sleep just fine. We didn’t need to blast anyone dead back years ago. We don’t expect there will be any need to blast anyone dead in the near term.

        If someone decides to try a repeat of what we faced years ago, if they manage to get by the fence and the dog, if they manage to avoid the lights and alarms, if they manage to get through the properly secured windows and locked doors, then we’ll be waiting down at the end of the hallway. While those folks fiddle around getting inside, we’ll be calling the good folks at the local sheriff’s department letting them know they need to send a officer. Meantime, we’ll wait at the end of the hallway. And those folks who are going bump in the morning, noon or night will then have the fun of figuring out what to do as we wait for them at the end of the hallway… and the police come in from the other way.

        • Russ November 20, 2014, 1:11 pm

          Hey bruce, I guess I had you wrong, you have many layers of protection.
          And you barricade/defend at the back of your place, so there’s no question by LEOs that you were in defense.
          But guess what about Anaheim?
          There is nowhere in this town that isn’t effected by crime. In fact we refer to it as “Anacrime”
          The nice neighborhoods now (Since Obama) have bums that try to live in your back yards, sheds, garages.
          I’m an Apt. Mgr. and I’ve had to take measures to keep them from trying to live in trash bin areas, laundry rooms, garages, landscape bushes, storage rooms and vacant apts.
          Druggies going door to door trying to gain entry.
          Gangsters and thugs pretending that they can’t hear or speak wanting you to open your door and read their note in hand. Gangsters posing as bible study enthusiast that wants to come in and talk about it. (some tried my door handle 1st.)
          This and so much more, too much to list.
          Just now while writing this, I came in from doing laundry, and I heard some crazyass “rapping” cuss words etc. at the top of his lungs as he’s walking down the street.
          So I’m real glad there are places that are so nice and calm you can let your guard down, but those places are nowhere I know of here in So.Cal.
          Land of the entitled and home of the illegal alien, and where the dumbest people walk like zombies staring into the smartest phones.
          You may have taken me wrong as well.
          I sure as hell don’t want to ever kill a person.
          Hopefully they wont make me do that.
          But I wont hesitate and am very ready with resolve.
          I also have layers of defence that might just blind or electrify, and like a “cowboy” plenty of unbreakable zip-ties that I may “hog-tie” them up for delivering to police.
          I’m not gung ho, I’m just a guy who wont be taken advantage of, ever.
          I want other good people to be the same way. Good guys on top, bad guys underground.

  • Richard talbot November 17, 2014, 8:29 am

    If someone decides to break into my house he is a criminal and loses all rights. And I would like to shoot first and ask questions later. But the consequences of doing so could be very expensive.

  • Mark November 17, 2014, 8:27 am

    I hope I never have to be put in such a situation. However, my plan to deescalate the situation would be to shoot the intruder right off. I’m not going to take any chances with the lives of my family members. If the perp gets by me, no telling what would happen next. The perp has no business being in my house uninvited anyway.

  • charles Burke November 17, 2014, 8:26 am

    I would hope I have time to ready my weapon! I like to think Ill have time before the door comes crashing in. I like the idea of securing my entry points (the doors) with a tactical door. The standard American door is hung on a weak wood door jamb and is simple to breach, I like to slow down if not stop the would be home invader at the gate. The Gibraltdoor is an awesome tool to use to help stop the would be invader. I like the idea of hearing useless attempts to get thru the tactical door as i take a defensive position, take the safety off and wait for back up. The Gibraltdoor is a considerable useful tool in preventing the home invasion.

    • Russ November 17, 2014, 6:33 pm

      Dang Charles,
      You better watch out. I’m scared for you. We need good guys to live.
      There are lots of crooks who can cut a hole in your glass and somewhat quietly get in.
      And your Gibraltdoor is great but cost about $2,000.00!
      Have contact alarms on doors and windows so you know if they get opened. $20. @ Amazon; GE Personal Security Alarm Kit. Maybe have a door stop alarm, also cheap @
      You wont have time, so you better be armed immediately.
      But if for some reason you have time, Dial 911 and let them know what’s up without the bad guy hearing your position.
      Volume it down, and pocket it so they hear what’s happening, but you don’t hear them.
      Personally, I would call 911 after taking care of business.
      K.I.S.S. method.
      Good luck Charles, and check out all the inexpensive security stuff @

  • TDW November 17, 2014, 7:43 am

    Since my first weapon, if I was home, would be my Browning 12 gauge, there wouldn’t be much question about survivability. If I wasn’t home then the 9MM would probably be emptied in his general direction and maybe he might survive, but it’s doubtful. Break into my home and you won’t break into another anytime soon, or ever.

  • Centurion_Cornelius November 17, 2014, 7:28 am

    All well-said replies.
    At over seven decades of life under my belt, I have seen muggings, stick-ups, robberies, and “home invasions” go from a criminal getting what he wants (usually $$$) to today’s nightmares of criminals getting your $$$, then they and their gang torturing you, raping your wife and daughters before your eyes just for starters. The Knoxville, TN home invasion where a group of thugs held a young couple for DAYS, repeatedly raping and torturing (cut off her breasts while she was alive) and sodomizing the man before they brutally murdered them both brought me to my senses and conclusion:

    You invade = After you get past my “early warning system,” K-9s, I shoot to kill. No questions, no quarter.

  • Greg November 17, 2014, 7:27 am

    Easy there Rambos! Lets not forget Alzheimer’s patients and drunks. Someone illegally in your house MAY NOT always warrant the use of deadly force. Any time you choose to pick up a weapon, you are responsible for the outcome. You have to be able to identify and react accordingly. It would really suck if you shot your kid, or your elderly neighbor or your drunk cousin. Give yourself time to react–reinforce doors and windows to buy you time to think– install perimeter lights so your targets are backlit– get a light on your gun, a bright one, so you are able to assess quickly– and last, practice– so if you have to be lethal, you get the job done.

    • Neal November 17, 2014, 9:17 am

      I was hoping a rational mind was going to respond. Effective home defense starts with adequately preparing for possible threats. Securing entry points and installing surveillance measures are just the start. I have made it extremely difficult for anyone to approach my home’s entry points without an occupant knowing. Should a perp gain entry they are in for a huge surprise because the armed occupant will have the drop on them. 9-1-1 has already been contacted and if they do anything other than comply with demands they will be immediately incapacitated. Their blood pressure will be lowered to such a point that cognitive and motor function will be effectively reduced or completely impaired. Professional medical attention will be provided as soon as it is available (barring there aren’t any cats needing rescuing from trees or no pools need filling). Seriously, there’s no good reason for letting someone get into your home without you knowing well in advance.

    • Sam S November 17, 2014, 3:11 pm

      alzhiemers and drunks getting shot? No great loss.

      • Caretaker April 21, 2017, 11:19 pm

        Sam S, go to hell buddy! Alzheimer\’s is nothing to joke or be sarcastic about. Hope you never have to care for a close family member with that disease a$$hole!

    • Russ November 17, 2014, 5:50 pm

      My doors are locked with alarms and outside warnings.
      If you get in, you had to be a determined criminal.
      We all look where we’re shooting.
      Half the stuff you mentioned is great, so why would you have mercy if your drunken Alzheimer neighbor got through that reinforcement?
      Is the kid retarded?
      Maybe if it were my Grandma, I’ ld wing her for being senile.
      Oh, and put a light on your gun so you screw up your night vision, give away your position and show the bad guy exactly where to shoot your face.
      Try flipping on a flashlight next time you get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom so you see what happens to your vision.
      Your ideas and “Rambo” reference make me think your from Hollywood, or watch too many movies.
      Good luck.

    • Matches January 2, 2015, 8:47 am

      Backlit? Really? Backlit makes someone harder to identify and not only impairs your vision but makes you “frontlit”. If the perp is intent on harming you it will be a lot easier with you lit up!
      Break into my house and you suffer the consequences.

  • Gary November 17, 2014, 7:00 am

    If Long has chosen this method of getting his ‘kicks’ for whatever he is/was on – then tough bounce ! ! Better get a job, and get a life!!

  • Allan Morrison November 17, 2014, 7:00 am

    I’d do society a favor by eliminating the scumbag from its midst. Not only would he be unable to repeatedly offend but also his capacity to make carbon copy offspring would end.

    • Paul November 17, 2014, 10:42 am

      You’re a root killer. Well put though.

    • Paul November 17, 2014, 10:43 am

      You’re a root eliminator. Well put though.

    • Russ November 17, 2014, 5:28 pm

      We think alike, Allan
      And I might ad; His/her friends might spread the word = Good guys own firearms.

  • CZ-75 Fan November 17, 2014, 6:54 am


    Seriously? You’re actually asking this question? What is this, the ‘Cosmo’ forum?

    You shoot to kill (I don’t buy the p.c. ‘shoot to end the threat’ crap – it’s called ‘deadly’ force), immediately.

    Whether it was through a kicked-in front door or a smashed-in window, the sanctity of your home has already been violated.

    Whoever did so obviously isn’t there to deliver a pizza.

    • Mike K November 17, 2014, 7:51 am

      Yeah, and make sure you say “shoot to kill” when you’re defending your actions in either criminal or civil court. If you can de escalate WITHOUT ANY DANGER TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY, by all means do it. No matter the final outcome, you won’t enjoy the aftermath of having shot someone, believe me. And, no matter what you think, DON’T tell anyone you shot to kill. Officially you stopped shooting when the threat was neutralized. Whether the guy lived or died was not decided by you.

      I was a police firearms instructor for many years and have had to pull a trigger more than once, and I have learned that it is better to avoid the fight than win it, always. Just don’t endanger yourself in the process.

      • Sam Martin November 17, 2014, 8:21 am

        This guy has it right.

      • mark November 17, 2014, 9:39 am

        Yeah…Mike K does have it right. Even though we all support the thought of blowing away a violent intruder, we need to make sure he’s not someone we know, that he is, indeed, violent and that there is no other way to stop him. “Shoot first and ask questions later” sounds good but will cost you plenty. In this case kicking in the door instead of sneaking in was, indeed, a tip-off as to the intruder’s state of mind and certainly being ready to shoot to kill is the stance we should have. And NEVER let an intruder get close enough to engage you physically ’cause you’ll probably lose. Announce your presence and that you’re armed. You should have a light on your gun and, even better, a laser dot to put on him…I think most people know what that means…and give him the chance to leave the way he came. If he makes a move toward you as opposed to away from you, then it’s time to shoot. I know this seems like a perfect scenario but you WILL get investigated and probably sued by the Loser’s family so get it right before firing. And, indeed, “neutralize” is the word to use. Lawyer’s will have a field day with “shoot to kill”.

        • dave November 17, 2014, 2:22 pm

          No one I know is going to kick my door in… Shoot to neutralize. If it turns out to be someone i recognize, then I never knew him/her and the outcome is the same.

      • dink winkerson November 17, 2014, 12:46 pm

        You don’t win anything in a gun fight, you only get to keep what you have. That being said, I would shoot until the threat was eliminated.

      • Frank November 17, 2014, 1:05 pm

        Agree, avoid when possible. However, you can avoid problems by not going to places or at times that there is increased risk. If someone makes a forcible entry into your home, they have already committed a violent act. Obviously, they are not making a social call. Often, they are not alone. This is not avoidable. delayed reaction can cost you your life, and the lives of your family. Criminals have learned that dead witnesses tell no tales.

      • Larry A November 17, 2014, 2:07 pm

        As a retired police officer, I believe you should try to de-escalate the situation. If you cannot then you want to neutralize the assailant. Stop the threat. You never want to shoot to kill. You shoot to stop the threat. And that is what you want to say in court. If you happen to kill the assailant (invader), that’s unfortunate

        • msmith November 17, 2014, 3:15 pm

          I won’t be saying anything. The only thing that will be happening is the sound of my gun as it sounds when it’s in operation I’m not going to say stop I’m going to shoot. Just shoot and hit your target

    • 1911FAN November 17, 2014, 9:26 am

      By saying “shoot to kill”, you’re begging to be arrested and sued. If necessary, I will always attempt to end the threat.

      Call #1: 9-11, “I was attached and forced to defend myself. Please send the police and an ambulance.”

      Call #2: Call your lawyer. If you own a gun for self defense and don’t have a lawyer, get one.

      When the police arrive, here is the only statement you should make: “I want my lawyer present before I answer any questions. Until then, I invoke my right to remain silent.” People will say, “if you don’t have anything to hide or you didn’t do anything wrong, why would you not answer questions?” That’s simple, your adrenaline will be pumping, you will not be thinking clearly, and the police are really good at “pretending” to be your friend and say they want to help you, while turning things around and you end up in jail. Be cooperative; make sure you surrender the weapon (leave it “safe”, in plain site when they come in), make sure you identify yourself as the homeowner, but nothing more.

      If your wife or family is there, they shouldn’t say anything either until your lawyer arrives.

      • Mountain Man November 17, 2014, 11:36 am

        Option B. No phone call. Check perimeter for accomplices.

        Knock, knock. “Yes, we heard it too, officer. Not sure what that was. Sounded like a chainsaw a block or two over. Do you need any help?”

        From the official Hefty website: “Heavy duty contractor trash bags are strong and durable enough to hold up to even your toughest projects. Find contractor trash bags in 42, 45 and 55 gallon sizes to get the job done right. Whether you’re cleaning out your closet or tackling an outside job, trust our contractor jobs to get the job done!”

        • Former GI Joe January 3, 2015, 1:40 am

          I sure hope that’s a joke. By not calling the authorities to report a shooting resulting in injury or death, you are committing a felony. When you are discovered, and you almost surely will be, you will not be able to weasel you way out of that felony and more charges may result depending on how much time lapses before the discovery. Also, if you have a family and they are aware of the original shooting, they will be accessories after the fact (at best), also a felony, if they do not report the event. If your state has a “castle doctrine” law (most do), you would be foolish, in my opinion, to avoid calling the authorities quickly, if not immediately. Just don’t say any more than 1911FAN suggested above. And it is very important to have an attorney you can call in such an event with his/her number programmed into your smart phone!

      • Joe McHugh November 17, 2014, 12:18 pm

        1911FAN, You and Mark have provided very good advice in this matter. A light source is necessary to identify who broke through your window or door. Calmly as you can, instruct the home invader to drop to the floor and ask if he is alone. If the intruder makes a break to escape, do not shoot! You will have a hard time proving that bullet holes in the back of the intruder were defensive.

        Mark’s admonishment to never let the intruder to get close to you is absolutely true. The intruder can rush 10 feet in less that a second so you must have your guns sights on his center mass with the safety off. Don’t worry about the welfare of the home invader, he left his constitutional rights at the forced window or door.

        Whether the intruder runs or submits to your commands, keep your guard up, because he may have an accomplice already in your home. Hopefully you already had enough time to call 911 but if not, call after the threat moderates.

        If worse comes to worst and you have to use deadly force, aim and fire at the center of mass of every threat that comes at you. If the threats continue to move toward you they may be wearing body armor, aim at the heads and keep shooting.

        If the intruder only had a flashlight that looked like a shiny gun, put one of your carving knives in his hand. The district attorney will think that the intruder grabbed it and was trying to assault you with it. By the way, your finger prints on the knife are expected to be there, you just used it to open a plastic food bag with it earlier, right?

        This is the thing. You didn’t kill the dead intruder, he killed himself by forcing you to defend your life in your invaded home. After all, the dead man would still be alive if he had merely continued walking down the street.

      • Bruce November 18, 2014, 1:31 am

        Absolutely correct.

        The police are not your friends. Do not say anything until you have a lawyer present. Do not give any information including basic information until your attorney is present. Be polite, but make it clear that your attorney needs to be present prior to telling them anything. I know this from experience.

      • Doug M January 2, 2015, 11:06 am

        To take your comment to the next level, lets all remember our obligation to attend jury duty and defend our freedom loving brothers with our ” not guilty” vote. Even liberal lawyers will give up on prosecuting these iffy cases when they begin to see the trend in jury nullification. Just look how these Grand Juries have protected good officers from the racist lynch mobs in Ferguson. They were SO ready to lynch Darren Wilson, and completely ignore the fact that Michael Brown was a bully and a thug that made the fatal mistake of going hand to hand with an armed officer. And it’s even more important to show up for civil cases as well, where the threshold to convict is lower. Lets fight for each other in court, not just on these forums!

    • Keith Kindle November 17, 2014, 12:01 pm

      My response if our door was kicked in during a home invasion would be to stop the threat. If you are nit-picking terminology, use “shoot to stop” the threat, not shoot to kill. You are not a killer, but the warrior protecting your family and yourself.

    • Tim H November 17, 2014, 2:06 pm

      No property is worth someone’s life, including a scum bag. Also you better check your state laws because almost all deadly force laws require deadly force is always last resort. Most “Make my Day” laws require retreat if possible, only “Castle” laws allow the use of deadly force to defend your property or to allow you to “stand your ground”. If you family is in the home then all bets are off but you better be sure the intruder was a threat of “imminent bodily harm”. Most states define imminent bodily harm as the loss of a limb or organ. By the law “violating the sanctity of your home” is not grounds to use deadly force. I personally would rather not shoot anybody. Remember, both Castle and Make my Day are not laws allowing you to shoot someone, they are defenses you can use in court.

      • Russ November 20, 2014, 1:57 pm

        No, property isn’t.
        But to get to my property, you have to go though my life.
        So now it becomes, my life being worth more than an intruders (“scum bag”) life.
        Being in court is way better than being in the ground.

      • Turk January 2, 2015, 12:23 pm

        This makes no sense…..If one is sure “the intruder was a threat of ‘imminent bodily harm’ ” by “loss of a limb or organ” how is one now capable of mounting any kind of defense?

      • Former GI Joe January 3, 2015, 2:01 am

        Tim, you talk a lot but much of what you say is not correct. Check with a concealed carry instructor at a respected range or with a knowledgeable lawyer familiar with firearms laws in your state. In AZ, for example, I have no obligation to retreat if I believe I am facing a potentially lethal threat. In my home, anyone breaking in is assumed to be a potential deadly threat. As far as deadly force being “always [a] last resort”, stuff and nonsense. Anyone breaking into my home may be shot without warning from me if I believe there is a threat to my life or safety. Of course, the belief must meet the “reasonable man” standard when/if I am charged with a crime for defending myself. Since I am over 60, am overweight and very out-of-shape, I doubt I would have much difficulty meeting that standard. I’m a vet, but non-combat. I’m a nurse and know, both from books and personal experience, how stress hormones such as adrenaline can affect a person. I have no doubt I’d pee my pants if I ever had to respond to a deadly threat. Sorry to have wandered off point. Please educate yourself regarding the firearms laws in your state. What you say may apply to you. But it may not apply to many others from other states. This is a dangerous area of law in which to offer generalizations that may apply in only a few states.

    • Russ November 20, 2014, 1:48 pm

      LOL CZ,
      “Seriously? You’re actually asking this question? What is this, the ‘Cosmo’ forum?”

      I was thinking the same, or maybe an anti-gun plant to see where we stand.
      Gotta watch these forums, lots of phoney’s.

    • SJ January 2, 2015, 5:36 am

      In court, ‘shoot to kill’ = murder. NEVER comment with “shoot to kill”. If the authorities look and find more posts like this from you, it could become ‘pre-meditated’.

      Just saying…

  • bob November 17, 2014, 5:15 am

    My answer is to shoot to kill. If you try to persuade the intruder, you may give his accomplices, if there are any time to get to you. If your squeamish about killing a fellow human being, then you shouldn’t have a gun by your nightstand to begin with. No warning shots, no shooting to “disable”, two to center mass, one to the head.

    • Frank November 17, 2014, 9:02 am

      I saw an interesting perspective on the 3 shots. Basically, like a zipper 5 up from the groin to the head. This was to counter the use of body armor. Hopefully like insurance, you will never need to use it.

      • DickC November 17, 2014, 10:30 am

        Yes, ‘double-tap’ is the best defense!!

    • Frank November 17, 2014, 9:02 am

      I saw an interesting perspective on the 3 shots. Basically, like a zipper 5 up from the groin to the head. This was to counter the use of body armor. Hopefully like insurance, you will never need to use it.

      • Russ November 17, 2014, 5:15 pm

        I have it in my head that inside the home, I would shoot low also, but for other reasons.
        I have family and neighbors and I don’t want my shots to go through walls unless I’m trying to.
        But to answer the question, I would shoot them dead as it gets.
        legs or groin, then torso and head.(my zipper pattern).
        Mercy will get you and/or your loved one’s killed.
        Let God sort it out.

    • Russ November 20, 2014, 1:43 pm

      Bob is right.
      Good lesson for nice people.

    • Rob January 2, 2015, 10:50 am

      You will go to jail, pure and simple. You shoot to break off the attack, end the threat, stop the advance, all of the above, etc.

  • MrMunchie November 16, 2014, 3:49 pm

    Under normal circumstances, I will try to de-escalate any confrontation. This is not a normal circumstance. The intruder has put MY family at risk by invading MY home. My family’s safety comes first. Is the person I am confronting the only bad guy? No way to to tell. I’m not going to carry on a discussion with the a-hole while there may be others to contend with! I WILL disable the intruder with any weapon available, using deadly force … immediately. The intruder has decided his fate by invading my home. I will, then, contact authorities and live on with a clear conscience.

    • jim November 17, 2014, 12:53 pm


      Make the area safe, then call the police to clean up.
      as the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are minutes away!

  • msmith November 15, 2014, 9:16 pm

    If he is stupid and desperate enough to kick in my door which I consider a violent act in itself I’m going to squeeze off the trigger until the gun stops or I see him go have no business kicking in anybody’s door in attempt to steal or rob someone.if you decide to do that you suffer the consequence.

    • Bullseye November 16, 2014, 5:30 pm

      Well put! The only reason he wouldn’t be shot seventeen times is that my Hi-Power only has a sixteen shot clip.

      • Peter November 17, 2014, 11:03 am

        Clip? Really?

        • Tim November 17, 2014, 11:33 am

          FWIW Peter: While your comment is more technically correct: is it really necessary to degrade or insult a well meaning comment on this site? Not trying to reprimand you it’s just that I see this type of comment all to often.

          If I were Bullseye I’d be hesitant to post again because of being “put down” by such as yourself. Bullseye meant well and had an “ok” answer so you look like Mr. know it all with your snide comment.

          We in the gun community need to be more tolerant of those who are still learning. I don’t think this is meant to be a form of experts?

          FYI… A [clip is a] device for holding cartridges together, usually to facilitate loading. Widely used as a synonym for “magazine” (although most firearm authorities consider this substandard usage). Technically, a magazine has a feeding spring, a clip does not.

          • Johnny November 17, 2014, 12:29 pm

            I am a Vietnam veteran and an ex-law enforcement officer (retired) and I own several handguns and rifles that accept “clips”. Here in Texas our terminology is not always in line with the northeast US , but the point is clear . Should you desire a magazine in my state you need to go to the local newsstand .

          • Anonymous November 17, 2014, 6:18 pm

            What about a banana clip? That is a proper usage of the term clip that describe a large curved magazine. In fact, I have a banana clip for my 10/22.

          • BIGDADDY November 18, 2014, 8:20 pm


          • Ralph January 2, 2015, 8:45 am

            Bravo Tim. Well said. That being said, any act of “breaking in” is an act of aggression and suggests no regard for property. I refuse to roll the dice and take a chance that the aggressor is unarmed. He chose to violate my right to keep my family and property safe. Therefore, he himself is rolling the dice and he will loose in this gamble.

          • Varn January 2, 2015, 10:30 am

            Well, a well known anti-gunner by the name of Diane Feinstein, U.S. Senator from California, always uses the erroneous term “clip” when she is referring to a magazine. This shows her ignorance regarding firearms. If you like being in the same camp as Feinstein then continue to call a magazine a clip. Take this. An M1 Garand uses a clip, and enbloc clip that holds 8 rounds and is inserted into the magazine of the M1 Garand rifle. Would you call that a magazine or a clip? BTW, I am in California where the anti-gunners reign in our socialist leftist state government. Not a friendly place for Americans. If I were younger I would “escape” to free America.

          • dann bunn January 23, 2015, 11:13 pm

            very well spoken,Tim and Bullseye ! Peter, spoken like a man with his ass on his face!

        • dave November 17, 2014, 11:39 am

          Why on earth do people like you always worry about proper terminoligy ? It’s a big sttin deal that you know the proper term is magazine and not clip isn’t it? You and every one else knows what a person is talking about if they say thier clip holds x amount of rounds! Are you really so surpior that you need to question or correct someone who may not use the same proper words as you! The story here is ONLY about shooting scum that would invade your home and my take on it is they should all die imediatly upon breaking in,that’s the only way to stay safe ,protect your property and family and the best way to break scum from stealing instead of of making an honest living! Now mister prim &propper you can hack on me for my misspellings and improper grammer. I’m always willing to help the supiorior crowd feel good about themselves!

          • Keith November 17, 2014, 12:06 pm

            I’m with Peter…words matter.

          • Ray November 17, 2014, 2:28 pm

            The words matter because anti-gun groups keep trying to use our words against us. They invented things like assault rifles and high capacity magazines to scare the uninformed and the more we accept and use terms like like these the more anti-gun groups can use our own words against us. Let’s not give them that chance. Keep forcing th to come up with lies and use the wrong terms themselves so that we can show people how truly ignorant they are about guns.

          • mach37 November 17, 2014, 3:03 pm

            Keith, and Peter; sometimes words matter, sometimes they don’t. “Clip” doesn’t matter, and I concur with Tim that your post was “snide,” that is, maliciously derogatory.

          • Tom January 2, 2015, 11:23 am

            The foundation of responsible firearms ownership is safety. To be able to safely handle the firearms you handle you need to have an intimate knowledge of that firearm. Using incorrect terminology suggests not possessing that knowledge.

        • Joe Momma November 17, 2014, 2:14 pm

          Penis! Really?

        • Ron Green January 2, 2015, 9:57 am

          Peter; Some call them clips! Get a friggen life.

        • Mike January 2, 2015, 10:17 am

          Let it go you say tomato I say tamato it’s the same thing and you knew what he meant.

      • Russ November 17, 2014, 5:23 pm

        I get what your saying Bullseye.
        Don’t let the “grammar-tech police” get you down.
        And don’t waste so much of that costly ammo on criminals.
        2 to the body and 1 to the head ought to do it.
        Save some for his buddies.

      • Bruce Skinner November 18, 2014, 1:50 am

        Couldn’t agree with Bullseye and msmith MORE! I could understand if Murphy had no frame of reference on this guy, i.e. if he was walking outside. But, once someone crosses your threshold and you haven’t invited them in, all bets are off. You might mutter something like “who the hell are you” but any answer from the “perp” isn’t going to satisfy you and only gives him more time to accost you. So, if you hesitate, you have to suffer the consequences (whether it’s a knife in the chest or a bullet). If you don’t, our little friend has to suffer his. And, why in God’s name would you wait. Is he there to help you? Mmmm, I don’t think so.

        • wllharrington January 2, 2015, 9:18 pm

          Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

      • Jake D January 2, 2015, 11:19 am


        • Lowell Morrison January 2, 2015, 1:47 pm

          Clip is archaic, World War II military jargon, and thus IS correct, so you grammar police, get over it.

    • joe November 17, 2014, 1:58 pm

      Cops are killed with their own guns, so if you think that by show you gun is a solution that’s only because that
      is what would stop you, but a person who breaks into a house is desperate and and if you think differently just
      leave your wallet outside your door. My thought is to show him the bullets not the gun. If you every seen what is
      used to break into a house , the door jam broken with a large crowbar .

      • russ January 2, 2015, 11:16 am

        Joe, please go back to school try again to learn proper English

    • petrusova November 17, 2014, 3:21 pm

      Before all you cowboys drool over shooting someone there are many ways you can be sued even though the police justify the shooting and do not indict you. Loss of companionship is a good one that many anti-gun judges sometimes invoke which means you could end up owing the widow or children of the deceased thousands of dollars that will often take a life time to pay. In other words a civil law suit is much easier to prove against you than being taken to court for a murder where the conviction is much more difficult to get.

      It also depends who you shoot as well. Shooting a 3 time loser convict is one thing but suppose the guy who broke into your house is the kid down the street who is a star football player and is only 16 years old but big for his age. In the dark with your techno super red dot sight or tritium sight you see a vaguely moving large man enter your house and without identifying your target you blast him down. The news media then gets ahold of the story and sensationalizes it portraying you as a trigger happy right wing red neck with an arsenal of weapons (more than one gun and more than 10 rounds of ammo) and the kid that broke in as merely a misunderstood teenager who was on a thrill seeking lark that night. You could be indicted in either criminal or if that fails in civil court and even if you win the case the lawyers will bankrupt you for life often taking everything you own and will own for years, if not for the rest of your life. After the news media has sensationalized the case try finding a jury anywhere that is impartial after it gets all over the internet, even the people from “Outer Slobovia” the land of perpetual ice and snow will know all about you. And if the person you shoot happens to be a minority and you are white person look out, as you will be portrayed by the news media as a right ring Nazi racist out to gun down any minority that gets in your way. Mr. Zimmerman can fill you in on how difficult it is to win in court with that kind of sensationalism by the news media.

      If my home was broken into I would be more likely to slip out the back door if possible and then call the police. You can always replace personal objects like computers and TV’s but staying to shoot it out does not guarantee he will not get you first or if you get him the nightmare is over, chances are it will just be beginning. And also remember any innocent person who gets shot in the cross fire will result in your being jailed or sued. I even know of one instance where a dog was accidentally shot and the home owner got sued for thousands of dollars. Now think about that one next time you are twirling your six shooter on the end of your finger and singing Home, Home on the Range.

      • Tremain November 17, 2014, 4:58 pm

        Petrusova, Yep. Slipping out the back door. That will make sure they don’t come back and rape your wife and kids next time. You’re part of the problem.

      • bucksdelucks November 17, 2014, 9:25 pm

        Slipping out the back might be OK if you are alone. What about those of us with children and a wife at home? If someone is going to invade my castle they better be ready to reap the rewards so to speak.

      • BIGDADDY November 18, 2014, 8:31 pm


      • SJ January 2, 2015, 5:30 am

        First off, Mr. Zimmerman walked. Free and clear. He NEVER invoked Stand Your Ground. Here in Florida, if stand your ground is invoked and you’re cleared, there can be NO civil case for loss of companionship, wrongful death, whatever. I don’t care who kicks in the door, it’s a forced felony and you’re authorized use of deadly force. “Good boys” (mis-understood or not) seeking thrills don’t break into homes. Criminals do that. I’ll not stand there and ask what he wants. “Leave or I’ll shoot” is more likely what he’ll hear, if I’m in a good mood. There’s nothing in the law that says I have to issue a warning.

        My stuff is my stuff. My wife and I worked pretty hard to come by what we have. I give to charity, but I am not one. I help where I can as a productive member of society. I do NOT plan on being a victim, it’s not in my life plan.

        As for collateral damage, that’s what hollow points are for. Imagine that… Safety rounds!

      • Matches January 2, 2015, 8:34 am

        ……..and as you quietly slip out the back door his accomplice quietly slits your throat. Great idea!

      • Steve January 2, 2015, 9:13 am

        Being sued is the last thing on my mind if an intruder enters my home and is a threat to me and my family. Once your inside you fit the category. Let his family sue me. I’m 60 and disabled and not likely to fend off multiple or even a strong single opponent. My right is missing, but my left index finger works just fine. I try to have a weapon with in 10 feet of me always. It’s a dangerous world, and if & when it happens I will be prepared well. I’ve shot thousands of rounds just out of my High Power. Practice is always needed. A knife I can shave with is my back up.

      • Bob Peck January 2, 2015, 10:09 am


        I think you made some valid points about the possibility of being sued civially but you lost me with your last paragraph. First of all join an organization like United States Concealed Carry Inc. and you can have over $1,000,000 in legal protection for both civil & criminal cases. That can ease your mind about being able to afford a good lawyer for your defense. Additionally, that organization provides many training opportunities so you can become educated about when to take action to protect yourself and your family. That should be your first step is becoming educated on use of self defense. Bottom line is if I could make a 911 call safely during a home invasion I would but I would not flee my residence leaving my loved ones behind including my loyal loving dog. I will defend my family when necessary and circumstances will dictate when I fire upon an intruder.

        • Tony January 2, 2015, 1:01 pm

          Very Well Stated… I feel that the “empty every thing into him/her” motto is very ignorant, have a proper condition awareness
          (1)Loud verbal commands w/ defensive gun display
          if the situation escalates too quickly a proper placement of a (2) controlled pair to the center mass would be justified…

          Training of being an armed guard and a CCW permit hold “Not Required In AZ” the goal is to stop the threat…

          (3) if the threat becomes docile after the initial shots are fired that is all that is needed and (4)if the threat is uncooperative follow thru with 2nd controlled pair…

      • John January 2, 2015, 10:27 am

        Very well said Petrusova. It gives you a lot to think about! But, what if it were your wife or child he was trying to accost and you were witnessing it?

      • Varn January 2, 2015, 10:36 am

        Would you rather be judged by 12 or carried by 6?

      • Jake D January 2, 2015, 11:27 am

        I AGREE WITH PETRUSOVA. Slip out the back door quietly so as not to wake anyone up. You can com back later after your wife and daughter have been raped and murdered. How’s that cowboy?

      • Fern January 2, 2015, 12:49 pm

        Petrusova, Living in a gun repressive state without the second amendment (yes I’m talking about NJ) I can identify with your concerns.
        Essentially there’s no Castle Law or Stand Your Ground Law in this state. But there’s a law that specifies that in case of a home invasion what you should do is retreat.
        But I have a family that I love too much to let a bunch of liberal law makers decide if they are worth living or not. I don’t know where those politicians live or if they have escape tunnels in their bedrooms… one thing is for sure: None of us has that.
        What I do have is a couple of weapons ready to be fired in a second’s notice and I will use them to protect my family even being aware of the criminal and civil consequences this state might impose on me.
        As the old saying goes: I rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
        But what we decide now in front of our computers doesn’t always translate to what really happens when the adrenaline and fear starts speeding through your brain.
        You know the layout of your house and you know that the only thing standing between a gun (no matter ho’s holding it) and your wife and children is just a couple of Sheetrock panels and that won’t stop any bullets.
        So the best advise in my opinion is to run through every possible scenario and do some drills to see the pros and cons of every possible confrontation.
        1 – Where’s the intruder breaking into the house? The front, side or back door? Maybe the garage or the roof?
        2 – Is the intruder alone? And if not, where are they now at the moment of confrontation? In the same room or one is in your basement while one is in the living room.
        3 – Are the intruders cornered in an inside room at the moment of confrontation or are they close to the exit and would make the warning command and warning shot a better option?
        The list can go on and on depending on how many scenarios your property could afford and that’s what everyone should be prepared for in the days we’re living in where there’s no respect for authorities, property or human life.
        In my case one thing is for sure: if faced with the situation of having to choose between me and my family or a scum bag I would blast the scum bag away.
        And if i was fortunate enough to soot him without any of the neighbors hearing my gun and calling authorities I would also make sure to dispose of the scum bag’s body in a way that it would never be found.
        After all this is the state of the “Sopranos”

    • Frank Rossitto November 17, 2014, 4:01 pm

      Law enforcement always warns a suspect to drop their weapon and get on the ground before opening fire. If my family is in imminent threat of danger, then I have no problem shooting. If someone is just trying to steal my stuff, that I can replace, is it really worth taking their life. Dealing with taking someone’s life is not as easy as one would think. I would warn first and shoot second. This is just my humble opinion.

      • Father November 18, 2014, 2:08 pm

        I came face to face with an intruder breaking into house. At home behind me was 2 months old twins and my wife. How was I suppose to know if the intruder was “just trying to steal my stuff”? Even if they tell you they just want your stuff, do you believe they won’t take your life too? Will you put your family’s life in someone else’s hands?

        I was very lucky I didn’t have to shoot. I was willing risk going to jail, had the intruder taken another step towards me.
        It was a surreal moment I wish to never experience again.

    • doug November 17, 2014, 4:21 pm


      • Efrain November 17, 2014, 7:07 pm

        If someone breaks down the door to my house, they are not welcomed or invited. Bottom line. I will not ask the perp(s) if he/she is an adult and consider their answer or wonder if I should have slipped out any door or widow for that matter (with my two dogs,daughters and wife). What if your seen or heard and the perp has a weapon? I refuse to take that chance with my life or the lives of my family members. They are getting heavy metal removed from cavities in their body IF they live long enough.

      • J January 2, 2015, 4:15 am

        I don’t know that all caps are needed Doug…the equivalent of yelling at someone… Maybe some people need to be yelled at on second thought…. But I like where your head is at… However, my finger doesnt make any noise to begin with…

      • J January 2, 2015, 4:34 am

        I don’t know that all caps are needed Doug…the equivalent of yelling at someone… Maybe some people need to be yelled at on second thought…. But I like where your head is at… However, my finger doesnt make any noise to begin with…

      • sheepdog January 2, 2015, 9:11 am

        Or pumping a round into the 12g a.

    • Oscar Ray November 17, 2014, 10:57 pm

      You invade my home and you will be met with DEADLY FORCE !!!! The criminal and criminal alone is responsible for anything that befalls them. THEY chose to commit the crime, so they suffer the consequences.

    • Monroe January 2, 2015, 5:38 am

      Amen to that. If he wasn’t breaking and entering he wouldn’t have been shot.

    • paching January 2, 2015, 6:15 am

      If you ask me, the homeowner gave the scumbag too much of a chance. He couldn’t get close enough to tangle with me. I would have put at least three loads of hot, heavy metal into the perp’s body. If you know someone’s breaking in your back door, set yourself up, let him kick down your door, cross the threshold and put him down. Do society a favor.

    • John Hackett January 2, 2015, 2:06 pm

      If a man breaks into my home, I would shoot him centre mass before he shoots me. You do not know his intentions, if he is armed or if he is alone…and I will not risk my life or my family to unknowns. Breaking into a man home where I live would be considered extremely dangerous…….I do not believe in giving your enemy any chances. As far as terminology…clip or magazine, I understand what the man meant as well as everyone else here. We need to stand together…not be divided by putting another man down because he calls a bullet storage device by a different term…I have heard them called clips and mags…I understand both quite well. We need to stay focused on preserving our freedom…the rest doesn’t matter to me.

      • jsl55 January 3, 2015, 12:36 am

        John, if someone wanted to get really picky they would point out that a cartridge is a bullet storage device, and a magazine stores those cartridges – until you want to use the perp as the bullet storage device.

    • Rodney C January 2, 2015, 2:46 pm

      Agreeded. The simple right to defend property and the threat of bodily harm should not be overlooked. I think Murphy waited a bit too long. What if he hadn’t been so lucky?

    • sheepdogpapi January 3, 2015, 12:17 am

      You know, I used to just read the articles on this website and never really scroll down and read the comments.Today, I scrolled down to read some of the comments and you know what?? From now on, i will go back to just reading the articles!! Thanks!!

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