By Lee Williams
The homeowner was alerted there were trespassers on his property by motion detectors outside his front door. A live video feed from his doorbell camera showed three armed men wearing tactical vests, t-shirts and jeans. Two appeared to be ATF agents. The third was a Delaware State Police trooper. None wore body cameras.
The homeowner, who did not want his name used in this story, is a small businessman – a law-abiding citizen who even ATF acknowledged had done nothing wrong. He went to his front door hesitantly. He left his doorbell camera running to record the encounter.
The homeowner confronted the three men before they reached the door. “Can I help you?” he asked, stepping onto the porch.
The older ATF agent told him they were assigned to a task force investigating straw purchases. A straw purchase – a federal felony – occurs when someone buys a firearm on behalf of another person, who is unable to legally purchase a firearm themselves.
The agent said they were verifying that people who bought multiple firearms still had the guns in their possession. The homeowner had bought seven firearms since January 2022.
He asked the men for identification, which the agents and trooper produced. They admitted they did not have a search warrant. The doorbell camera recorded what happened next.
Agent 1 – “All I’m doing is verifying that you have it, you got two different purchases. If you have them, I’m out of here. That’s how quick it is. Yeah. Do you have them with you by any chance?”
Homeowner – “They’re in my safe.”
Agent 1 – “If you can unload them and bring them out. We can go out to your foyer here, check them out, write the serial numbers and we’re out of here.”
Homeowner – “That’s it?”
Agent 1 – “Yep.”
Agent 2 – “That’s it. It will take five seconds.”
Trooper – “The reason we’re out here is obviously gun violence is at an uptick. We want to make sure – we’ve been having a lot of issues with straw purchases. One of the things, indicators we get is someone making a large gun purchase, and then a lot of times we’ve been there and ‘Oh, those guns got taken.’”
Agent 1 – “The idea is that when you purchase more than two guns at a time it generates a multiple sales report and it comes to us and we have to check them out. That’s all that is. You did nothing wrong – absolutely zero. I noticed you were stopped in Philly though with one of your guns?”
Trooper – “We’ll wait if you feel more comfortable.”
Homeowner – “I’m okay. I just – I didn’t expect…”
Agent 1 – “Oh no. It just came up. We came here, look, I’m telling you. There’s an email from the federal side saying can you make sure this guy’s got his guns. If you recently purchased a whole bunch of guns, if we can look at them and just scratch them off…”
Homeowner – “I have them all.”
Agent 2 – “We can look at them and write which ones you just bought, so we can save a trip from coming back. We’ll confirm that you have them.”
The homeowner agreed to get the firearms, closed the front door while the agents remained on the front porch, unaware they were being recorded.
Trooper – “He doesn’t believe we’re cops.”
Agent 1 – “I don’t blame him.”
The homeowner retrieved one rifle. The agent checked the serial number off of his list. The homeowner asked if he still needed to retrieve the rest of the firearms. The agents said it wasn’t necessary to see any more. They apologized for the inconvenience, wished the homeowner a good night and left.
Invasion of privacy
Looking back, the homeowner believes he was coerced into giving his consent for what was legally a search of his property, even though no enforcement action was taken against him.
Since the ATF agents did not have a search warrant – they lacked probable cause to obtain one – they had to rely upon extracting consent from the homeowner.
When the courts consider consent, they look at its voluntariness – whether consent was freely given or coerced. They also consider whether the defendant knew he had a right to refuse. Other factors like the time of day and the officers’ demeanor and uniforms can also be considered by the court.
They pushed hard. They were clearly in a hurry, and the threat they might have to return was menacing.
“I was embarrassed,” the homeowner said. “My neighbors saw the whole thing – guys in these police vests standing in my yard. I was really uncomfortable. I felt really confused, like I was in some way being accused of something even though I didn’t commit a crime. It was quite embarrassing. I knew they couldn’t come in, but I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to get put on some watch list. We just got new gun laws here. I didn’t want them coming back again. I felt like they were invading my privacy.”
No comment
The Resident Agent in Charge of ATF’s Wilmington, Delaware field office did not return calls seeking comment for this story.
Similarly, public information officers at both ATF’s Baltimore Field Division and Washington D.C. headquarters did not return calls or emails seeking comment. This lack of accountability is certainly nothing new for the ATF.
Delaware State Police was also unwilling to discuss this investigation.
Neither Delaware State Police PIO supervisor Sgt. India Sturgis nor Superintendent Col. Melissa Zebley were willing to be interviewed for this story.
Delaware State Police Superintendent Col. Melissa Zebley. (Photo courtesy DSP).
“It sounds like your questions would be more appropriately suited for ATF. Please contact them with questions that you have about straw purchases of firearms,” Sgt. Sturgis said in an email.
The only insight into ATF’s surprise home inspections was in a Washington Post story published July 22, 2021, in which Attorney General Merrick Garland announced that the Biden-Harris administration was targeting straw purchasers.
SEE ALSO: Suppressor Myth #2 – Owning a Silencer Allows the Government to Search Your House
“Going forward, officials said, U.S. attorney’s offices and ATF agents will seek to prosecute more straw purchases — focusing not only on major cities, but also the neighboring towns and states that supply many of the guns used in crimes, including along the Interstate 95 corridor and in Indiana, Nevada and Arizona,” the story states.
Delaware is part of the I-95 corridor. The interstate bisects the state’s most populous county.
Takeaways
Delaware State Police have a proven lack of respect for the Second Amendment. They were once caught maintaining a secret list of gun owners, even though state law required them to destroy firearm records after 60 days. They used the list to illegally thwart at least one firearm purchase. Pairing one of their troopers with the ATF was bound to produce a host of constitutional violations. It was only a matter of time.
These types of warrantless investigations are known as “knock and talks.” They’re usually a tool reserved for narcotics detectives and they’ve always been constitutionally suspect. Police rely upon verbal skills and their powers of persuasion to convince a homeowner to waive their Fourth Amendment rights and let them in. Unlike this case, there’s usually no record of what the cops told the homeowner in order to gain access to the home.
To be clear, if the ATF agents had probable cause to believe this homeowner was actually a straw purchaser, they could have petitioned the court for a search warrant. They didn’t have a shred of probable cause in this case. In fact, all they had was an internal email stating “make sure this guy’s got his guns.”
This homeowner lives in an upscale, affluent neighborhood – a factor that certainly played a role in the agents’ plans. They were counting on the homeowner to let them in quickly, rather than risk a neighbor seeing three LEOs in tactical vests milling around in his front yard.
The fact that neither the ATF nor the Delaware State Police were willing to answer questions, much less defend the actions of their officers, speaks volumes, too. Both agencies mistakenly believe that if they ignore difficult questions they’ll go away.
Best practices
The best person to stop a straw purchase is a well-trained gun dealer. John Clark of FFL Consultants has trained hundreds of gun dealers.
Clark and business partner John Bocker crisscross the country to help dealers fight back against Biden’s war on guns. Their mantra is: “Get it right the first time.”
“Straw purchases are something we teach all of our FFLs to monitor for,” Clark said. “If someone wants to buy seven Hi-Point handguns, they should ask why someone wants seven of the cheapest handguns they sell.”
“The Golden Rule is this – buy a gun and keep it for at least a year. That will keep you out of the sights of the ATF and law enforcement,” he said. “If you’re buying and selling on the side, you should get licensed.”
Clark was asked about this case – two federal agents and a state trooper wearing tactical vests.
“They could have been a little bit more inconspicuous,” he said. “But that’s the feds.”
Did you like this story? It comes courtesy of the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project. Thank them today with a tax-deductible donation!
knock, knock….. “Who are you and what do you want?(behind closed door)” “Oh, I see. Can you wait a minute? I just want to call my sheriff. He doesn’t like federal officers harassing citizens in his county and throwing their weight around.”
If it was me, I would have never opened the door, much less gone outside, much Much less brought a gun out to them! Stupid homeowner. Yes, stupid! There have been many home invasions by criminals posing as cops.
Anyone can go to a police supply store and purchase genuine LE gear, only minus the dept. insignia.
On a separate note, I worked in the trade and can’t tell you how many times we reported a suspected straw purchase to ATF and they did nothing, or slow-walked it. No respect here.
Cop: “There’s an email from the federal side saying can you make sure this guy’s got his guns.”
WTF are the feds doing with a record of this guy’s purchases??!! That is illegal. Oh wait, nobody wants to take your guns, they tell us. Right. Lying bastards!
…Seems like a planted story to get GOP folk all fired up. Don’t believe everything you read, especially stories that haven’t been picked up by the national new chains or vetted by real journalist (i.e. other than FOX news, Infowars, One America…etc.). Our government (of the people) is not out to takeaway guns, only to introduce some measure of sanity to protect our kids which may require everyone pass a background check, are subject to red-flag laws, or need to secure their weapons when not in use. Lets stop being fearful of so many things and follow the money to those who promote it. It’s no secret there’s money in stoking nonsensical narratives such as this one and gaining advertising “click$” in the process…
Sure thing fed-boi, keep thinking that.
In 1761, in a vice0admiraly court in Boston, James Otis, Jr., attacked warrantless searches and seizures by the King’s revenue agents. While the findings upheld the agents. This act was a crucial one in that it involved the crucial act of the the beginning of a revolution. It is likely that the Administration is preparing a registry to aid in confiscation at some future date.
Note that in early 1775 the government in Massachusetts bay ordered the confiscation of a “cache of illegal arms” and sent troops on 19 April where a force of 800 or so regulars met a superior force of well regulated militia–in a short battle won by the militia, the American Revolution became the War for Independence.
uated militia has nothing to do with government control but has to do with the
Note here. the term well-regulated has to do with theability of the militia to use military tactics and deploy firepower as a regular army.
I’m concerned as an American citizen when any MF buys one gun a month….it’s not normal..and don’t lie and say it is… does anyone ever really know another’s motives? Probably not until it’s too late…trust no one..authorities or joe blow capitalist gun nut. Most humans are crazy and full of BS..what you loser deplorables say ?
This deplorable loser says go f yourself. I’ll buy whatever legal guns that I want, whenever I want. If I buy seven in the same month then so be it. And if the ATF shows up at my door with a legal search warrant, then they can see them all.
Have you lost your bigoted mind , sir ?
Good to see that little boner is still as dumb as a box of rocks, such a clown that he should be embarrassed at his lack of intellect ,lol at this simpleton .
I have purchased several guns at a time on several occasions. Why I did that is not your business or the ATF’s
Why does every left wing, holier than thou, enlightened nut scream their insults from behind the safety of their keyboard?
As a law abiding citizen, exercising my rights under the Constitution why do you feel its any of your business what I buy or how many of whatever I buy? Stay in your own lane and out of mine.
You should meet my Cane Corso mastiff. He likes to bury Bones.
Doc Holliday– “Why look, darlin’, it’s Mr. Bones agin. They say that Commie is the stupidest SOB in the land.”
Eh…your statistics aautomatically include youself…but then, crazy people always believe theyre the only normal one
Sure sounds like “ grumpy old douche bag biker” got sand kicked in his vagina, GFY you self righteous wanna be tough guy.
I saw a video of gun confiscation in new orleans after the hurricane. They had sent a platoon of national guard with m16s. Used national guard so it was local people. it being locals and a whole platoon with automatic weapons it worked on the guy filming. So here is the result. There are gangs of people sacking the city for months. Refugees were forced to stay at the stadium. Wich would require food and water to feed them. So as long as the refugees were still the criminals could also stay and steal the food and water in new orleans robing house after house. And there you are with no guns., It was a vidieo with sound not a photo shop picture I was for gun registering but not now. Also I worked for the Census and they did not pay me all the money they owed me. So I told them I was keeping their phone untill they payed me, Called many times and even went to one of their last open offices to discuss this. They told me that they were calling the cops. And some kind of cop came to my house. He got out of some kind of police car. I told him to get off my property. So he told me that he was going to get the local police. I stepped out as soo as he left. But my GF said he did not come back. I finally just gave him the phone because my GF was freaking out. I used to trust the police. NOt any more.I evicted a tenant that owed me for rent. all legally. The last step is to call the sherif and they come to make sure the tennant leaves and that nothing goes wrong. I got there early checked the unit and they and their stuff was gone. The 2 sheriffs showed up late. I told them that they were not needed the tennant was gone. They yelled at me telling me to get in my car. They both pulled their pistols hunched over and entered the unit. I thought that they were not to pull their weapon unless there was possible mortal danger. Not like whenever they want to or even if no one is there I am not for defunding the police. But there is a lot of bad ones and they need to be weeded out
If the ATF wants to see two guns, why not just show them two guns. It is an invasion of you home, but it is no big deal. If you bought more handguns in one week in an area suffering from straw purchases, just show them the guns. If you keep a log book and gifted or sold one of them, show that to the agents. It takes a few minutes and gets you off the watch list. What is your big loss?
And you are the person that the rest of us dread, because you’ll also say “Oh its just reasonable gun laws” “Oh its just a ban of this type of accessory” “Oh its just a ban of this type of gun” “Oh its…” until you’ve got no guns and no means of protecting yourself and you are living their dream.
What percentage of law enforment officers (federal, state, local) would consent to a warrent less search of their home because there was an internal investigation within the department they work for? My guess is that the number is at most less than 1%.
You can comply like the gent on the video did and that might be the end of it but that is a supposition.
After seeing the unjustfied and unethical treatment of General Flynn by the FBI, I have vowed to never offer any statements to a federal agent. If the feds would destroy a highly decorated former military officer, what do you think they would do to you? You think you are going to impress them if you are a veteran? You think that the mister upright stading citizen act will make you some new buds?
Look at Martha Stewart, if she kept her mouth shut she would have stayed out of jail. So to ask a more relavant question than you raised, what would a lawyer say about “your big loss” potential?
Best of luck with whatever you are thinking.
Tell the ATF to get a warrant and fuck people like you that cave and think that ignoring the 4Amendment is ok.
You belong in Australia or NZ, not the U.S..
Again, we go back to Aesops little fable with the feathers. And the way the nazis worked, “a little bit of…”
I had a disturbing experience a couple of years ago. On opening day of big duck season, I stepped on a gun case near where we were about to set out decoys. When I slipped the toe of my wader under the case I could tell it had a gun in it. After it got light we examined the case to find a Turkish made semi-auto shotgun. We expected someone would come by that morning to claim the shotgun, figuring it probably fell out of a decoy drag. Since nobody showed up by the time we left I took the gun home with me.
Since my friend had several outdoor related social media accounts, he posted some somewhat vague accounts about finding a shotgun at a certain public hunting area and included his contact info. He never got any replies.I also checked a website where you can search a gun’s serial number to see if it was reported lost or stolen. Since the gun came up clean, I chose not to persue it further.
Due to my families instance I called the local sherriffs office about noon the following Friday and left a message on their answering machine. I received a call about 10 oclock that night from the sherriff’s office informing me an officer was on his way out to pick up the gun. I replied I was already going to bed & I would bringit to them in the morning. Shortly thereafter an officer showed up and demanded I turn the gun over to him. He stated that if nobody claimed it within 6 months I could get it back. I complied.
The next Monday I called the sherriff’s office to fine there was a case number assigned to the shotgun & it was being held in their evidence lockup.
After 6 months had passed, I stopped by the sherriffs office to see if anyone had claimed the shotgun. I was told nobody had claimed the gun, but I could not have it back even though a supposed trace by ATF&E came back clean. When I reminded them of what I was told, they said since I turned in the gun i had no claim on it. I told them I did not turn the gun in, but that one of their officers came to my house and confiscated it from me.
After about another 6 months I stopped by their office again to claim the gun and was told they had no intention of returning the gun to me ever. At that point I asked to see if they did indeed still have possesion of the gun and they told me to leave. Whether they still have posession of the gun, or whether it got, “misplaced” I will never Know.
Interesting cautionary tale.
So much for doing the right thing
You should have refused to turn the gun over unless the officer gave you a signed receipt for it, and also have a witness present. Then, you could have gone to court and Maybe stood a chance of getting it back.
Some people just have to learn the hard way.
Ah? We’re up to “five (male)witnesses” or it dident happen? Such a world!
So, what… you pull my comment because I was NOT necessarily rabidly outraged over this nonsense?
feel free to dis-enroll me from emails unless I find it easier at my end.
My comment was pulled from the discussion. I assume because I actually laid out what would probably happen should the homeowner had not complied with the BATF agents desires and instead asked for a warrant.
Let me give you a hint: Ruby Ridge and Waco, Texas!
Ah geez. Why not compare somebody to the Nazis while you’re at it. How original.
IF these scum come to your door the first thing out of your mouth should be, “Show me the warrant.”
If they don’t have a warrant, shut the door and if they don’t leave, call your lawyer then call the local police.
If they don’t have a warrant, they have no legal rights to search or inspect anything on your property.
I think I would have politely said no, but state if they come back with a warrant I would comply.
Appeared to be rather harmless. Had the homeowner told the BATF agent and the Delaware Trooper he wanted to see a search warrant before he produced a firearm, the result would probably been (based on the BATF past performance) very bad. A left-leaning liberal judge would have issued a warrant, then at 0300 a BATF SWAT team accompanied by local PD officers would have showed up at the front door, mumbled “Federal police officers open the door, we have a warrant”. Immediately after that the door would have been blown in by agents with a battering ram. The owner’s, two dogs would have been killed (They were a threat to the agents and cops). If the owner had grabbed a firearm he would have been immediately shot (He was a threat too). His wife and kids would have been handcuffed, made to kneel on the floor, the house would have been torn apart during the search. After nothing was found, the widow and kids would be released and the departing agent would say “Sorry, nothing illegal found”. The family would have to make a decision as to whether or not to rebuild or just leave the country and move to a safer location, like Costa Rica or Panama!
Wow. I would have demanded a warrant. Of course when they returned with one, it wouldn’t be so cordial. I get they have a job to do and straw purchases are bad (fast and furious anybody?) but again…wow. Our government is out of control. For now.
Interesting that in the end, it appears they were happy to see the ONE that he brought out… first?
But earlier, one of them says this: “We can look at them and write which ones you just bought, so we can save a trip from coming back. We’ll confirm that you have them.”
This quote implies that they would have been happy if he had brought out everything that he had in order to see that the “listed” items were still in the individual’s possession.
Me, I understand where the agents are coming from and would have NEEDED to see their list FIRST and then would gladly have either shown the firearms or discussed their ultimate disposition.
Hell, I’ve bought firearms with 4473s before and without intending to… sold them in less time than the paperwork took because someone saw it after purchase and wanted it more than even I wanted to keep it.
Todd.
This is just a sneaky way to register guns. Shame on the Federal Government! Oh wait a minute they don’t care! They just want our guns and finding out where the majority of them are is a start for them. This corrupt Communist Government is going to stop at nothing to gain full control of our lives. We better start standing up to this now or we will be in real trouble just around the corner. China has more say here in America than Americans do and that is thanks to the corrupt Democrat/Communist Party. These people in our Government want all conservatives dead and they can’t do it soon enough.
People voting Democrat better smarten up because you are a part of this problem. You may not see it now but when they start dragging your conservative relatives from their homes never to be seen again maybe then you will take a closer look. Ignorance will be no escuse.
Please wake up fellow Americans!
Well said.
Man had a doorbell camera. Don’t even open the door, make them talk to you thru the camera. Ask for warrant then tell the to have a nice day.
The federal government only has the authority to enforce laws in the district of Columbia. Taxes being the exception. They also have authority over minting, international situations and foreign affairs, along with war time operations and military base operations. They never had the power to create these agencies to operate across the country, yet here they are, no elected leaders yet still create their own regulations. Violating everything the republic was built on.
Wow, I’ve never seen such feminine hysteria and weepy overreacting in my life! Granted, it shouldn’t take three law enforcement types in marked tactical gear to do a knock-and-talk based on “reasonable suspicion” (from a multiple sales form), which is less than “probable cause”, which is required for a search warrant. ATF has been doing these for decades, but usually just by one or two plainclothes agents. I know of one time a multiple sales form was sent in to ATF about a guy who had bought six or seven Hi-Point pistols, which are low-cost junk favored by criminals and not a gun anybody would ever want to collect. ATF went to talk to the guy, who had no criminal record, and he gladly informed them he was a business man who had bought all those guns to present as gifts to clients (some gift, but it’s the gesture that counts). The agents thanked him and left. Sure, he could’ve said, “Get screwed” or “Get a warrant”, like some of the fine, completely untrained and uneducated legal minds on here have suggested, among other big talk, but was that really necessary?
And yes, guns can be given as gifts. Ask your friendly lawyer about your state and local laws.
Elmer has it right……..THE COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!! I don’t care if your son or daughter is a cop, there is someone in their dept. that will arrest you and seize whatever and your offspring will tell you to submit even if every right in the BOR is violated against you. THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT IS THICKER THAN THE WATER OF THE WOMB!!
I have never seen so many apologists for law enforcement as I see written in these comments. Law enforcement will seize your firearms if they are told to seize. Their pension is more important than your rights to unreasonable search and seizure. They are not your friend.
Can’t wait to see you all when the police shoot your dog because your soon to be, ex-wife says you are a maniac and have a gun.
Don’t believe me? Look at how easy it was to get police to arrest non-vaccinated people going to restaurants in NYC. Just doing their job is all.
Guess you missed the entire NC police department who resigned due to the new city manager and a similar situation in upstate NY. People know what matters and a badge doesn’t make folks all of a sudden disregard the constitution nor common sense nor values/morals. You think those in LE don’t realize their guns would be gone too?
Love to see people post “what about-ism’s”. What about NC police? What about upstate NY? What about it? Read up on what a “strawman argument” is and get back to me. Police will take your guns if they are told to do so. Pensions > your guns.
In a suburb of Kansas City, Missouri where I lived for several years, it was common knowledge that any guns that were seized would disappear if they had any value. The local cops would take them home or sell them. That was 20 years ago or more. I don’t know if things are better now but I’m sure other places have similar problems. The department would have an annual auction to sell property that ended up with the police, lost bicycles that were never claimed, property that was seized for whatever reason, etcetera. The valuable guns that had been seized never showed up on the auction. Cheap guns, or damaged guns would be on the auction. Generally cops are good but there are bad apples in every group.
“We the People” , have allowed our “ government “ to exceed
it’s authority for decades . It may be too far in “ excess “ now
to reign it in . But it may not be too late .
Read , comprehend & understand our Constitution and Bill of
Rights . It is our obligation to our Nation . Only in this way can
We keep this growing Monster in check .
Our system was never intended to go this far . I believe the
Founders would be horrified by what we have allowed to
take place here .
It’s not too late! That’s why we have the 2nd Amendment. We might have to get dirty to get this turds under control though. No more allowing them to trample rights we have NATURALLY. Natural rights can’t be taken by any man or government they are inherent. Our founders knew this and provide us with the means to protect our rights from our very own government. Simply put: They work for us. In November fire the losers who hate America and Americans. That’s a start….
Agreed , good Sir .
My fear is too much media consumption has caused
the majority of our Nation to become fat , stupid , lazy
and totally incompetent .
I’m certain, not everyone , and I’ll share a foxhole with
any whom are not , but the rest of them ,……….
‘Guess we’ll see , come November , eh ?
So America does have a gestapo! So I collect guns now I can expect them banging on my door?
Oh, geez. There is ALWAYS at least one braindead idiot ready to invoke a comparison to the Nazis. ALWAYS. And it’s always the dumbest moron in the group. Congratulations.
Pot meet kettle, oh the irony, lol.
Chill-out, man! No cause to be going-off on the guy like that.
What is it with you and the Nazis , kameraden ?
I skimmed the whole thing and I am sure there are a number of concerns, but I won’t read it all as Stuff Like This Happens. I got swatted once while test firing a firearm at night in my garage. The Cops did a Dumb Job, and someone could have got hurt. However they had a complaint and were doing their job, and we all came away Ok. As for this issue, over the years I made lets say 20 2 firearm of more purchases and my FFL will simply say, More Paper Work. He knew they would rubber stamp the thing. Now that was 5 years or more ago, and today they may be looking closer. Back then there were a few Straw Sales Clowns around, and the did get busted, which is fine as they were selling outside The Law. Some will say we don’t need some of our Laws, and I would agree most of the time.
If these guys showed up at my door I would respect them, yet tell them they have better things to do. In the end I would have an interesting story and it only cost me an hour of my time. Being 70 I have lived during times of More Gun Control, and yew the control was the kind so many are worring about today. The old Controls came and went, but today we all have to look a little deeper at what is a huge issue in our country. I own a bunch of SKS, Aks, Ars, and some mini blasters and I enjoy them all. However, I have to be 21 to drink legally and I don’t hear anyone complaining about that except for those under 21. So is making the legal age for A Black Gun 21 a big deal? I mean it is already 18 in every state I can think of, but maybe we should lower it of 15, or raise it to 21. If you want a Law Free Fire Arm Law in our USA, have at it, but it ain’t gonna happen as even The Right ain’t gonna allow it.
Now it is time for me to Go Shotting, and Enjoy my fireamrs. God Bless Us All
Sure am glad alcohol was listed in the Bill of Rights… oh wait it wasn’t. And the drinking age of 21 was passed individually by each state in order to get access to federal highway funds in a DE FACTO attempt to pass federal law inside the states (being 70 I hope you remember that Louisiana was the last hold out and their highways got really pretty damned bad before they finally acquiesced.) Well grandpa, I sure hope you keep toeing the line. And make sure in the future you don’t misgender someone or you’ll probably be sent away and your firearms taken from you.
No warrant – no search. Bite Me
Exactly! You can always say, NO. But apparently it’s so much more fun to write a whiny article about how you were “menaced” and deprived of your rights by answering a few questions. So many idiots.
Come to Texas, we’ll make our stand at the Alamo! No warrant, goodbye. My guns belong to me. Word of advise stockpile ammo for your weapons, without it their just pieces of iron.
Just don’t answer the door. Waste their time instead of yours.
This has been going on for many, many years. The agencies involved have convinced a vast majority of the American populace that if they are at someone’s door they are there legally, and working within the boundaries of the Constitution they have sworn a solemn oath to defend and uphold. Qualified Immunity laws in many states protect these ne’er-do-wells from consequences of illegal actions against citizenry who, in actuality, pay their salaries.
Nearly forty years ago I witnessed a warrantless “knock and talk” executed by off-duty officers purporting to be performing a “wellness check” which became a “smash and grab” when the homeowner refused to allow them entry until they obtained a proper search warrant. 18 firearms were very visibly removed from the home of a non- prohibited person by these “LEOs ???” and displayed on the front lawn for all the neighbors to see while they retrieved photographic equipment from patrol vehicles. The firearms were removed from the property, and it was later found (during the ensuing court battle) that they had been distributed among the four “officers” for- to use the officers own language-“safe storage”. When the judge ordered the return of the firearms to their rightful owner the firearms had mysteriously disappeared. Officers claimed they had decided to place them into the four different evidence lockers maintained by the four agencies involved. No paper trail was found to exist, so the judge presumed, and stated that the officers had committed perjury. Commiefornia had the immunity laws in place already at that time. Consequently the judge scolded and admonished the officers involved, as there were no further actions available to her. Two of the officers- one CHP, and the other attended the same church which I and my family did at the time, so I recognized them by sight when the event occurred. I assumed they had some sort of “probable cause” and until I was called as a witness for my neighbor was unaware that they were off-duty. Assumptions can be quite distracting. The two officers always made certain to let fellow church members know that they were “ the good guys”. They never received any consequences for the illegal actions performed that evening. Not from the Justice System, nor the agencies they were employed by. One of the four involved was later found to have engineered the assassination of his patrol partner after being outed for stealing merchandise from a local FFL dealer. The CHP officer was shot and killed several years later during a “routine traffic stop” in the Mojave desert. His cruiser was found to be carrying drugs, which was attributed to having been confiscated during an earlier traffic stop.
The officers in the video seemed to be practicing some of the verbal skills being taught to LE to assess the effectiveness. I believe they targeted this homeowner due to an assumption of him being low-risk of high energy confrontation as he is a fairly affluent local businessman living in an upscale neighborhood and a lot to lose if he had escalated the meeting.
Asserting our right to have an attorney present is ineffective when “LEOs” are operating outside the law already. And trust me, if he had refused to comply with their requests, they would have lied to a judge to obtain a search warrant, arrived at three AM with full swat team and the story probably would have been headlined “PROMINENT LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER KILLED WHILE RESISTING EXECUTION OF LAWFUL SEARCH WARRANT” after the front and rear doors, as well as most of his windows being bashed by SWAT.
LEOs believe they are above the- rightfully so due Qualified Immunity laws. This must be addressed on a national basis or it will only continue to get worse.
You are way off. Qualified immunity only covers LE when operating within the scope of their authority, meaning legally, it doesn’t give cart blanche immunity. Also, warrants aren’t executed at 0300, federal warrants are only legally served between 0600-2200 without a legally justified exception authorized by a judge. Your slanted view of LE to “disarm” the law abiding public is misplaced. Don’t lump LE in with ignorant statements made by some liberal gov officials.
Except if you are Roger Stone and are an enemy of the fake POTUS then a pre-dawn raid before 0500 hrs with CNN somehow tagging along can happen.
This story is so bombastic and incredible I don’t even believe any of it. Law enforcement agencies would love nothing better than to weed out, get rid of and prosecute anybody in their midst who commit such wanton crimes against innocent, law abiding folks.
As a criminal defense attorney for 43 years, 95% federal. I’ve done over a 100 gun cases including many straw purchasers.
First, don’t open the door. You don’t have to open the door just because a badge is knocking. If you have a sound system you can ask what they want and tell them you require a warrant. Treat them like you would treat any door to door solicitors.
Second, do not be intimidated by the badge. You get to say no. Do so in a friendly, respectful manner so as not to give them an excuse to create a confrontation. Ask for their business cards and tell them you will have your lawyer call them. Tell them you want to consult with your attorney before granting consent to search.
Third, video record everything.
Sometimes firearms purchased by law abiding citizens end up in crime scenes and that results in a visit for a badge. Don’t panic… exercise your right to consult a lawyer before saying word.
Over my years of practice I have seen the 4th Amendment eroded in the service of the war on drugs. Courts have found any excuse to diminish 4th A rights to justify illegal drug and gun seizures.
Do you know your car can be searched for switching traffic lanes without signaling, or for rolling past a stop sign?
Now those same LE practices are being turned on gun owners.
The ain’t no 2A without 4A.
This is all great advice except for the bit about how your car can be searched for a minor traffic violation. That is not true. Cops still have to have probable cause to search your car as well as your home.
I gave a tip to ATF about Tactical Firearms and Archery.com. The website is a fraud, however the ffl number listed is a valid type 6…only authorized to manufacture ammo for sale. Website is still active. ATF would rather hassle law abiding folks.
I don’t understand why people continue to voluntarily give up their rights. Educate yourself, know your rights, push back against unlawful attempts to search your property. Say ‘NO’ respectfully and ask them to be on their way.
It wouldn’t have taken much for the feds to keep pushing and to make up an excuse to search his whole safe. Once you comply you open the door.
I’m obviously not in this guy’s shoes and good on him for recording the exchange, but giving an inch only reinforces to the feds that we will roll over for them.
Exactly. Driving home from work one evening I was pulled-over by a local cop for a “routine stop.” So, I asked him why he stopped me, as I told him I know I wasn’t speeding. He says no particular reason, oh by the way, mind if I have a quick look in your glove box?(I had an NRA sticker displayed on my rear window). I said “No, there’s no reason for you to search my vehicle and I am NOT giving you consent.” The jerk tried to intimidate me by saying he could call for a dog to sniff around my truck, and if they found “anything” I would lose my vehicle.
I told him with a smile to bring the dog, I love dogs and have 3 of my own. The jerk made a face and I asked if I was free to go. He said, his voice expressing disappointment & defeat, “Yeah, go.”
Point– Stay strong, but don’t be aggressively confrontational.
What I noticed on the video was the agent wore tactical gear and his backup were spread out like they were expecting a trouble. I don’t know what I would’ve done before I saw this video, but now I will insist on a warrant.
If I did nothing illegal then I basically read them the riot act about violating the privacy of a law abiding citizen, tell them to leave my private property, call the local police, and then phone my lawyer.
Police use intimidation and half-truths to get people to comply with unconstitutional acts and then if before a judge the police say the person complied with the act, so it was ok. The judge then tells the person he has no case against the police.
In the scenario provided, the gun buyer is left with (2) basic options:
(1.) Comply as this owner did – OR
(2.) Refuse to comply and deal with the repercussions, if any. There likely would be. Why ? The mere existence of their “list” indicating the # of firearms purchased during a given period of time is obviously of interest/concern to them. Whether you still have them remains unknown. Failure to voluntarily comply and cooperate could (and likely would) result in further state and/or federal action. Are the potential problem(s) worth it ? My “inner Constitutionalist” says absolutely, but the realist in me says otherwise.
UHHhhh….. How about I check your temperature? You might have COVID and I don’t want exposure. I have a rectal thermometer right here? Just following orders? Here’s one you can follow… Take a HIKE. You’re trespassing.
Sixty acres. ShoveI.
…suggesting that you murder these police officers and bury them on your property? Who would really be the bad guy in that case? I somehow feel that this is not the best solution. That’s a pretty bold comment.
HAHAHA! Not a bold comment, IN Gunsmith, just more stupid, big talk from another wannabe tough guy, internet commando. He’s the kind of clown who swears he’ll never be taken alive, but when he’s cornered his first move is always to urinate on himself and curl up into the fetal position.
Who was talking about officers??? WOW! You guys make a lot of BIG ASSumptions. Thanks for tipping your hand. We now know where your mind is at. Keep an eye out for bIack van down the street from your house.
My first thought on the shovel comment was remembering the old “joke” about why did the polish pour their used motor oil in their flower boxes/ so their guns wont rust, but those two other comments go with the sign that says no trespassing, i have land and a backhoe
I know folks get spun up on these events and it is silly to send three folks to do a knock and talk on a consensual encounter. All I can tell you is 90 plus percent of those in LE are gun owners themselves and fully support 2A. You can tell these agents don’t want to be on this porch bugging this guy. The one thing to know is nobody is going to start going door to door seizing firearms from lawful owners. I get the fear of this, but it’s not going to happen. LE just isn’t going to do it. No matter who gives that order, the rank and file aren’t going to do it. That’s from 1st hand conversations with people who’d most likely be tasked with doing it.
Apparently you missed the part where police went door to door, confiscating lawfully abiding citizens firearms in New Orleans after Katrina. It took over 5 years and several lawsuits before the police returned those firearms to their rightful owners.
Correction; anecdotally, some of them, not all of them, were returned
What is wrong with that? Just comply is what White people say. I see when it is them that is harassed by police they should comply.
I read your gibberish three times and still can’t figure out what you are trying so ineptly to whine about. But it seems you’re somehow trying to inject race in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with race. You should remain silent and just be presumed to be stupid.
Just reread bumpy old grikers comments 3 times, and got a differrent meaning each time…..however, he has “removed all doubt” with this (and other) bidenesques
If I get pulled over in traffic with “cause” by a local or state LE i will comply with any legal procedures. If a federal agent comes to my home without cause I NOT give permission to a search.
Go ahead and compare apples to oranges and be a fool while doing donuts in the business district in another crumbling Demshevic city.
Why a State Trooper? Guessing a ‘State Trooper’ in Delaware is like any other state, a Highway Patrolman. So 2 ATF agents and a Highway Patrolman show up at his door, almost sounds like the first line of a joke.
Nice try but not funny nor original. And your ignorance is appalling.
He should have told them to pound sand. Without a warrant they had no right to see his weapons even asking nicely.
Sure, big mouth, ‘cause that’s what a tough talker like you would’ve told them. They never said they had a “right” to see anything. They just asked to see them. All you have to do is not answer the door or just say, No.
Like you’re doing now? You’re a clown dude.
Yeah … I’m going with the majority here…
Not just ” No” ! … But ” HELL NO !!! ” , now show those credentials to this camera… and go get a warrant !!!
By the way … ” GET OFF MY LAWN !!! ”
( The freakin’ GALL !!! )
( Ring Ring … ” SAUL legal office, can I help you ? ” … Yeah, it’s me … tell SAUL to come right over… )
Do you always over react in a womanly, hysterical sort of way? Just say, No. And if you’re still so scared that you think it’s worth paying Saul thousands of dollars starting from the second he answers your call, go for it.
You get what you VOTE!!!!! for.😊😊
You get what you vote for? Considdering all that’s been happening, a little naive, don’t you think?
It’s going to get worst.
How stoopid. ATF has been doing knock-and-talks based on Multiple Sales reports since Reagan was president.
I would have told them scru u, you are trespassing, get off my property.
There sure is no shortage of big talking tough guys on here.
Appears to me that you are the expert on big talking tough guys…
Well he didn’t have a criminal back ground, no warrant out on him. Then it’s harassment disturbing his privacy. And it’s violating his rights! Putting him at possible risk, for a break in and a possible homicide! Because while they are checking his fore arms out peoel can see what the guy has in his house, which can cause him to be risk. Things get out easily that it was a inspection on the other hand someone across the street can be watching studying what he has, in his arsenal! And make contact with outside spoke to rob the place! He has kids inside they could put his life at risk! Those yankee states California, which is yanks, now Washington st, New York Delaware, Massachusetts, New Jersey it’s hard to get anything or have any rights you get ina right it’s self defense someone attacks you punches you etc you fight back, those states your violent it would hinder your rights to have a gun. Because of this stuff going on people shooting people I was lucky I wasn’t shit in Tulsa I was in the building near to it at the dentist 1 hour before the shooting took place! Tell thaws ignorant agents to go after those people leave law Biden alone quit harassing citizens put them at risk for beak in. Those yanks states have ignorant laws always have been. And now it’s heading to be like that all over. I never been in jail nor even a dwi , or speeding no seat belt once. Because of people shooting people it’s been going for years. We’re suffering over it. Point being putting that guy at risk by sharing what he has for no reason. No warrant nothing wrong!
I don’t like it either. BUT, to be fair LEOs can knock at your door and ask questions just like anyone else. I don’t like the fact they came to the door with a list, but I can’t say it’s 100% illegal. He should have politely declined and closed the door. Easy to say after the fact I guess, most people would be surprised and even a little shocked into “compliance”.
Wow, another tough talker who over reacts to a mere knock-and-talk in an hysterical, womanly way, blowing everything far out of proportion and relying on ridiculous hyperbole to create unnecessary drama. Wait, this isn’t my ex-wife, is it?
1. Never talk to law enforcement without a lawyer.
2. The home owner should have called 911 and told the sheriff there were armed people standing on his yard.
Sorry to disappoint you and ruin your silly delusion but a county sheriff doesn’t outrank state police or feds, and cannot interfere with their duties, even if s/he wanted to, which is highly unlikely.
tell them get a warrent and get fucked
illegal almost makes me want to buy several guns in hope they come to my house and no I didnt already say that
Heck, I’d chip in for you to do that in the hopes you’d get really stupid on them and force them to shoot you. The world would be a better place with fewer big mouth morons in it.
More gibberish from our bootlicker/fed boi. Dude just STFU you’re beyond stupid and on to delusional asswipe.
I would invite them in for coffee and ask if they want to bring more agents with them. I have a lot of guns…we’re gonna be here a while “checking” serial numbers against your “list”…LOL
Unfortunately, the homeowner, freaked out. I don’t know what I would have done. I probably would have told them, I’m not saying anything until I speak to my attorney. Then again, who would know what the ATF agent might do. He might force himself in..? In situations like that, always best to know your rights, and say little as possible.
As we say in Miami, “NO ES BUENO” 👎….They were testing the waters to see the Gun and Homeowner’s reaction….these actions taken by the ATF and local law enforcement has been a long time coming/they have been itching to begin DOOR TO DOOR SEARCHES AND SEIZURES OF FIREARMS….this is how it starts/thank you for the HEADS’ UP 🇺🇸💪🙏👍….
Sorry to squelch your delusion, torpe, but ATF has been doing this since at least Regan was president.
Hmmm… failure to acquire warrant, BS warrantless search.
1) 4th amendment
2) Impersonating a police officer
3) Repeat offense
Say nothing but “come back with a warrant”, call your lawyer and get their ass to the house. Makes LOTS of copies of that video and enter it as evidence.
Never, NEVER say ANYTHING to the cops.
What is the issue? The gun owner bought 7 guns in a short period of time. There is an issue with straw purchases. The agents came out to investigate the 7 purchases in a short time. They were polite. Explained why they were there. Explained the gun owner (if he still had the guns…which he did) did nothing wrong. Police have to be able to investigate red flags. They did not come in “guns blazing”. I see nothing wrong with this. So the neighbors saw the police there. It was a friendly visit.
Baa baa baa
Polite is one agent in a suit with a badge to display; not a mini SWAT team dispersed in flanking positions across my porch.
If they were able to coax any answers from me; the first sentence would be snapped heels Zeig Heil, alternating with “not be infringed”.
Not even the “shall not” part.
Get a warrant f’ers.
Chucklehead!
No, that wasn’t a “friendly” visit! A friendly visit would be one off-duty cop knocking on your door to sell you tickets to the PBA dinner next week.
What do you think happens to unwary sheep?
I would consider this an Illegal Search. The reason for their “Fishing Expedition” doesn’t matter under Amendment IV of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
My question for the Trooper and Agents is this. Had the gentleman in question insisted upon a Search Warrant before complying with an Unlawful Request, would you have pursued obtaining said Warrant? If not, why not? What further actions would you have immediately taken if faced with a noncompliant answer?
Do you three, not understand that your “request” would be ruled and considered as Unconstitutional by a competent Judge? What authority requested and authorized this Fishing Expedition? Do you have that “Order” in writing? Did any Judicial Review of this order take place, and if so, by whom?
None of those questions were asked or answers received per the article and recording, but they should have been. Is this the treatment we as Gun Owners can expect to receive with Dettelbach as Director of the ATF?
A consensual “knock and talk” is legal and requires no search warrant, reasonable suspicion or probable cause. If you don’t want to answer their questions and they have no warrant issued by a judge then tell them “No” and ask them to leave your property. If they don’t have pc for a search warrant then you don’t have to answer anything or show them anything. Again, if pc exists or if anything illegal is in plain view then they can hold the scene and petition a judge for a search warrant. But to simply approach someone in a public place (including knocking on someone’s door as any other person in the public can do) and ask them about anything is legal. It depends on how willing you are to divulge any information without legal pressure from a search warrant or without attorney representation. That being said, government agencies know that most people will cave-in to suggestion and innuendo.
I had a similar experience when 3 federal agents (2 FBI & 1 ATF) visited me at the headquarters of the Fortune 500 company where I worked at the time. Unrelated to any specific purchase though. They were following up on an “anonymous tip” that I was “stockpiling” guns. I own fewer than one & a half dozen guns. I too was concerned about the public perceptions…
My conversation with these gentlemen occurred in a conference room directly below our CEO’s office. I was assured their communication with any company personnel made clear I was not in any trouble but simply may have info that could help their investigation. I was also told they attempted to reach me at home numerous times before resorting to visiting my office. They acknowledged that each visit to my home was during normal office hours when I wouldn’t be home because that’s when I work. I provided direct contact info so there is no reason they should ever need to visit me at work again.
This wasn’t a fun experience but the agents I met with were not at all threatening, menacing or accusatory. They repeatedly apologized for the inconvenience and repeatedly assured me of their own personal support for my gun ownership rights. These guys were just doing their jobs and couldn’t have been more courteous or professional.
We as Americans are fortunate to have the constitutional right to own as many guns as we want. Unfortunately we also have a shockingly large population of people with serious mental health problems living amongst us here in America. I personally have no problem enduring the kinds of slightly inconvenient intrusions of privacy described in this article and my own experience described in this comment in the interest of hopefully slightly reducing how frequent & common absolutely random mass murder of defenseless unarmed civilians has become in this country today.
With the kind of great physical power that gun ownership provides comes an equally great level of personal responsibility. If you want to enjoy your 2nd amendment rights but are entirely unwilling to accept any related responsibility, maybe you’re one of the crazy fucks that make a reasonable level of government oversight of the rest of us gun owners actually necessary.
Stats vary slightly, but let’s say 4% of population in US suffers from SEVERE mental illness. So your definition is shockingly large amount of population.
Same stats say close to 20 % of US population has experienced some form of mental illness.
Welcome to the club.
How did they know he bought the guns in the first place????? Are background checks recording info they shouldn’t? Is there a secret gun registration we don’t know about and if so shouldn’t they have been able to nail the straw purchasers before now?
mien furor must be having a wet dream about now.
Paul, I address that question in the comment immediately below. I realise that my comment had not yet posted when you wrote your question.
It is the form 3310.12. When a customer purchases two or more semi-auto rifles “larger than .22 cal” (which they interpret as not .22LR but does include .223 REM and 5.56 NATO – hey, I don’t write the rules, I just get an angry phone call from the ATF when I report a .22LR rimfire on a 3310.12 form). I think a detachable mag may be a requirement for the 3310.12 as well?
Wherever he purchased the gun an atf inspector was probably reviewing records and came up with this guys multiple gun purchase.
A multiple sales form is also completed by an FFL whenever someone purchases two or more handguns in a five-day period. It’s an investigative tool ATF has used for decades. But I agree that three cops in tactical gear is ridiculous for such a knock-and-talk.
When you purchase more than one firearm at a time, the dealer must fill-out a Multiple Purchase form and send a copy to the Sheriff’s Dept.. The big question & concern is— how did the Feds get that information?
Ah, they are following up on 3310.12s. Added later in the Obama years, if a customer buys more than one semi-auto rifle “larger than .22 in diameter” within five business days from a single FFL, the licensee has to fill out a form and fax it to the ATF. There is a similar form for handguns, the 3310.4.
This does seem a little out of the ordinary but doesn’t really sound like the kind of thing that merits such breathless histrionics. Needless scaremongering.
They’re coming to your house next week.
That 3310.2 is required for border states not Delaware,unless Delaware has some form as well .The 3310.4 in for all states and more then one handgun sales in 5 biz days
You are absolutely right, David K. I had my FFL in Texas, so I had to fill out that form but I had forgotten that stipulation. The form was added as a reaction to that fast and furious gunwalking thing where all the crime guns from Mexico were coming from the US.
Back then … I purchased three identical AR’s for the kids when they could legally have one, and for me, because it was a model I really like. Plus I could COMPETE with the kids… the OG still wins…
The guy at the store said, ” You have NO idea how smart you are… Next week this NEW LAW goes into effect, and you couldn’t buy all those. ”
I could NOT believe it … Where the hell did our country go ???
Sooo… a ” COLLECTOR ” would now be a TERROR SUSPECT !!!
You must live in California (why would you do that?) or some other Democrat controlled toilet.
Basically, IMO, this is the federal government strong-arming citizens into submission. They are intentionally trying to instill fear of the government into the citizenry. Is this where I say Sieg Heil?
Did we miss the fact that they’re allegedly checking things off “a list”? So, the feds are maintaining at least one list. When they visit the owners not only are they outing the owner as the owner of firearms for nosey neighbors and potential thieves, but they’re going to have to send their list back somewhere.
Did we think about the second stage of this process? What can they possibly get from people who tell them to go away? They’re going to create another list, basically a “naughty and nice” list of people who cooperate and have firearms (which can be confiscated later) and a list of people who insist on their rights and, in the eyes of law enforcement, are presumptively guilty of something. Is that probable cause to get a warrant? No. So what would BATF do with that information? More warrantless searches? Surveillance? Wiretaps? All of these would require a warrant. The information is basically unusable from a legal standpoint without further development.
This process is grossly unconstitutional and worthy of the Stasi.