  Winchester Introduced the world’s fastest rimfire cartridge at the SHOT Show, the .17 Winchester Super Magnum (Win. Super Mag.). Winchester Ammunition – .17 Win. Super Magnum Rimfire .17WSM – SHOT Show 2013   The downrange velocity difference between the .17 Win. Super Mag. and other popular rimfires is obvious in this chart. |
Winchester Ammunition
http://www.winchester.com/
A lot of you guys were in disbelief that the new .17 Winchester rimfire from our Savage article early in this year’s SHOT Show coverage is all that it claims, so we got a little bit more information from Winchester. Seems that we have a whole new era of rimfire that will begin with the .17WSM. At 200 yards it barely moves at all in a 10mph wind, and they are marketing it for…coyote hunting. So stay tuned on this one kiddies. We hope to get a rifle from Savage and a box or two from Winchester Ammunition and get out coyote killing on the ranch soon. This is exciting stuff.
With ammunition prices through the roof and manufacturers unable to keep up with current demand, why would a company roll out an all new rimfire cartridge at the SHOT Show? In Winchester Ammunition’s case, probably because it has completed three years of development, and now is a great time to unveil low-cost fodder with performance that rivals some centerfire cartridges. Enter the world’s fastest rimfire, the .17 Winchester Super Magnum.
“Part of the appeal of rimfire ammunition to high-volume shooters is the relatively low cost,” said Brett Flaugher, Winchester Ammunition vice president of marketing, sales and strategic planning “With the launch of .17 Win. Super Mag., now hunters will get the downrange performance of a centerfire cartridge at the more affordable price point of traditional rimfire ammunition. It’s the best of both worlds for our customers.”
The company videos are impressive, but if you’re like me numbers are a bit more convincing. The cartridge will be loaded with three different bullets, 20- and 25-grain plastic tips and a 20-grain JHP. Both 20-grain loads attained a muzzle velocity of 3,000 fps in testing. “At 3,000 feet per second it’s the fastest modern rimfire cartridge on the planet. The downrange energy deposited by the .17 Win. Super Mag. will be a game-changer for varmint and predator hunters everywhere,” Flaugher explained. The 25-grain load attained a muzzle velocity of 2,600 fps.
A former co-worker was involved in initial testing nearly a year ago and claimed he was getting groups of MOA or better at 200 yards. That’s amazing, and call me a skeptic, but only believable because he’s an honest and experienced reloader and shooter.
OK, I know what you’re thinking. Now we have a new cartridge that promises us inexpensive shooting beyond traditional rimfire distances, but it will be months, maybe years, before a company rolls out a rifle to digest the round. Wrong. Savage Arms unveiled a new bolt-action rifle chambered in .17 Win. Super Mag. here at the SHOT Show. Allegedly several other companies have their versions here, but I haven’t uncovered them yet.
The 20-grain plastic tip will be offered in Winchester’s Varmint HV line, the 25-grain plastic tip in the Varmint HE line and a 20-grain jacketed hollow point in the Super-X line. The ammunition will come in 50-round boxes and 1,000-round cases. Expect dealers to have it on their shelves sometime in April of this year.
{ 48 comments… read them below or add one }
Well call me an old fart but I’ve lived through three wars and four marriges and the ultmate in rimfire cartridges ended for me with the 22 special. As always the old firstsoldier
is the WSM shootable in any 17 that shoots the HMR?
Er, guess?
No, the new .17wsm cartridge is about a centimeter longer, and has a larger overall diameter. Re-chambering and re facing of the bolt would be, at a minimum, required to even get it to load. Even then however, because of the diameter difference, it would probably not work do to the location of the existing firing pin. The existing firing pin would then be striking closer to the center of the round than the rim. MSRP of the rifle is Less than $350.00 it would be much less expensive to purchase the rifle than pay a smith to do all the work required to retrofit an HMR.
Oops, was that supposed to be a witty reply that fell flat? Glad I’m not the only one that does that.
Not even close. It is a very different round. There was information in the previous article. time for a new gun.
Can anyone say Mini-pocket pistol “Stinger”, a mini FN 5.7?
… say pistol barrel length reduces performance?
What kind of smart-xxxed answer is that. The man asked a question, he doesn’t need your attitude. How about telling him why it is or isn’t compatible and leave out the elitest BS.
No, how about encouraging him to think for himself. The part is for a .308 rifle to take .223 uppers. He has a .223 upper. Do the math.
What????
I don’t get it, what is the point. I see another 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum situation in the near future with the .17WSM Rimfire. Why not just step up to a .17rem centerfire cartridge? I know they say that cheap bulk rimfire ammo has appeal, but I don’t see the .17WSM ever being either cheap or bulk. But being the pessimist aside, who knows? Maybe it will take off..
I had the same question; is it compatible with a rifle that shoots .17 HMR?”?”?”?” Not a dumb question so leave the smart alec crap out of an answer please……………………
What is an upper? I am 64 years old and have never heard the term in gun collecting.
I think the reference is about the A R platform of rifles where the lower reciever holds the trigger, magazine and selector assembly and the upper reciever holds the bolt assembly. the Upper and lower on this weapon can be seperated. Many uppers in different calibers can be switched out as long as the magazines will fit the lower.
Yawn. Winchester came out with the super-short magnums, and where are they now? The .243 WSSM way out-performed the .243 Win: +200 fps and groups half the size at 200 yards (I owned both), but where are they now? Nobody makes rifles in WSSM calibers anymore, and the ammo is increasingly difficult to find. And if you bought one, good luck selling the gun. If you are lucky, you will get a third of what it’s worth, IF you can even sell it. This new .17 sounds like another Winchester flash in the pan to me. Performance isn’t everything. Popularity counts for far more in the long run (unless you are into wildcats).
If you want a .17, go with the HMR. It has been around long enough that it is established, and ammo and guns are highly available. Just my 2-cents.
I love wssm’s and wsm’s. Ammo is more available than 5.56 right now, and almost as cheap. I like to see companies thinking outside the box. Especially on ammunition. At some point one has to ask himself how many cartridges can be based on a .308, 30.06, and .223.
I understand the Admin’s point about thinking for one’s self but styxx is right. It was a smart-xxxed answer that probably turns off a lot of readers and potential advertisers. But hey, its your website.
Does anyone have chamber dimensions available for perusal?
Does anyone know if or when SAAMI will list standard(s) for the .17 Super Magnum Rimfire?
This is what I want to know as well. Where can I find the 17WSM dimensions so that I can build my own 17WSM tack driver?
Best way I know to discourage honest questions from inquisitive newbies is giving demeaning answers. We all make mistakes, and this answer was one.
This new round may be the perfect answer for non-reloaders seeking better .17 performance than offered by the the HMR. Ditto for someone wishing to own just one .17 cal. rimfire rifle. It remains to be seen if public acceptance gives it “legs”. I own, and am fond of, a couple of very accurate .17 HMRs, and I’d be hard pressed to justify buying another .17 rimfire.
For reloaders desiring superior .17 cal. performance without having to go to the .17 Remington, or wildcats, one option is the new .17 Hornet. I’ve been delighted with my Savage Mod. 25 in that caliber – excellent velocity and accuracy with both factory ammo and reloads. I routinely chronograph 3700+ fps. with 20 gr. VMax and Nosler Varmageddon bullets, using Accurate 1680 powder (best I’ve found in my rifle), with greatly reduced sound and fury. Routine hundred yard sub-MOA groups, half-inchers on my good days. With an 11.8 grain average powder charge per round, a pound of powder goes a long way. I’ll never part with my Model 700 in .17 Remington, but the new round is getting most of the shooting time these days.
I too am skeptical of another new round.. the inability to reload anything that may go to the wayside is a concern.. as many have pointed out, many rounds “wildcats” have come and gone.. as is the case for another round , the .17 Remington.. so will this round fill a nitch for someone that other rounds can’t at an affordable price and survive the test of time ?
While I didn’t look for specifics, it appears the 17WSM is to the 17HMR as a .357 Mag is to a .38 special size-wise.
Winchester print ad-
http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/ClientBin/17WinchesterSuperMagnumFamily/17WinchesterSuperMagnum/PDFs/17%20Win%20Super%20Mag%20Print%20Ad.pdf
It’ll be interesting to see if this ammo actually takes off. Also I cant wait to see what the price will be. Because we’ve all heard of .17 HMR. And this seems like a super-powered .17 HMR. Hopefully this ammo will be closer priced to .22LR ammo in price than .17 HMR.
By the way. Very unprofessional response from the administrator. You are representing a website, and GunsAmerica doesnt look any better for your comment. Usually companies enjoy having a professional admin or moderator that treats even “stupid questions” as you put it, with respect and sincerity.
O.K. I’m gonna think for Myself here, even though a .17 caliber round should not change size without changing it’s numerical designation I’d bet a Dollar to a Doughnut that by tacking that WSM on to it means that it Will Not Fit in My Taurus Tracker .17HMR because it will be Fatter just like all of those other STUPID WSM rounds of any Caliber. I’ve Never reloaded anything even though I would LOVE to, as a result there are countless facts I’m just not aware of concerning Ballistics and Bullet facts so I would ask that You would refrain freom calling Me names or pointing out My severe lack of education on this subject so I can contiue to enjoy the Shooting Sports as I have for the Last 50 Years. Thanks in advance for Your Kindness and Understanding.
Living in NJ, you cannot varmit hunt with much as far as rifles are concerned-having to stick with a 22. With this new ammo-can we legally hunt varmit in NJ with it?
If you can hunt with a .22 you should be ok with this.
Horrible, horrible (unethical) choice for coyote hunting at any range. Way too explosive. Coyotes are not p-dogs – much larger and deserve a quick death with complete penetration. Any why in the hell do we need/want this anyway – the .17 hummer-ever-so-slightly-improved? Barely moves in the wind at 200, my arse…. whole universe between the *claims* and reality here – physics just doesn’t add up. .17 hummer blows a LOT before 150 in any wind… look at the cases – this is only the tiniest bit longer – it just can’t be that much more powerful; doesn’t pass the smell test. Buy it if you want it, but gawdsakes, use a .22 hornet or bigger for yotes – preferably .222 rem or bigger.
Why don’t you try it first before blah blah blah. Stoner is right.
The legs of the new cartridge/gun combo is left to be seen. Cost vs benefit will be determined by the market. Ammo as well as rifle cost, amortized by fun! If the ammo can be competitive with 17 HMR and 22 Hornet it has a chance.
The more the merrier as far as tools in the toolbox goes.
Tappan
Killed a coyote with 17HMR. 1 shot behind shoulder with CCI 17 grain hollow point (TNT). DRT never moved. 75 yards probably wouldn’t take the shot over 100 yards. I was very surprised and happy.
If I had to think on my own, I would guess that since the .17 HMR is a 2350 ft/sec round with a 20 gram bullet and the case is essentially loaded to capacity, I believe that the internal volume and charge will be larger in volume to get 3000 ft/sec with a 20 grain bullet. That plus they are trying to get more rifles sold, so I would be hard pressed to believe that the the .17 WSM would fit in a .17 HMR rifle.
The 22lr. is not some slow cant do much round. Until about 53′ they were still acceptable for deer in Texas . My father shot the largest deer in Blanco Co in 52 with a semi auto ranch gun, The deer came out to about 70 yards, my father emptied 12 rounds into the size of an orange and the deer dropped 10 yards from there. He had to go get help from his Dad finding the deer as he didn’t look where it fell and it looked diffrently when he got down. It weighed 125 field dressed was a 13 pt and huge mass I haven’t seen many like it and back in that era years 45-57 drought was the condition, I guess what I am saying is it wont drop if you cant make the shot. And sometimes nothing wrong with a long range plinking session, 200+ yds
Here in Michigan we can only use 22 cal. or smaller rimfire after dark for coyotes. I would like to see this new gun in a over / under with a 12ga.
I was wanting a 22 LR necked down to 17 cal for years. I thought that 2 loadings; a lead 20 grain @ 800-700 fps and a 20 grain jacketed HP @ 2000+ fps. It would be a good 1st rifle with limited range and power and later changing ammo would make it a good small game round. The 17 HMR came first and was way too powerful for small game. The 17 MACH 2 was next, but no low power low cost loading.
The 17 HMR is a necked down 22 MAG case. The 17 Mach 2 is a necked down CCI Stinger case (Stinger cases are slightly longer that 22LR cases). The new round uses a 25 caliber nail gun charge necked down. They could easily use the same case and make a 25 rimfire.
Just so everyone knows that there aren’t a lot of new ideals; right after the 22 MAG came out the gun writers mentioned the new case being wildcatted (yes, a rimfire)! Dies were being made and high performance light weight 22 bullets were being made by Fred Barnes.
This is my first visit to this site and have found it to be quite interesting. I have been researching this new round from Winchester for more than a month. These are some of the details that have at least been in print from reputable sites. A new gun will HAVE to be purchased. Internal pressure for the .17 HMR is 26000 psi, pressure for the.17WSM is 33000. Prices for the ammo is 14.00 to 15.00 per box of 50. Several mfgs. have said they are building rifles–Browning, Ruger, and Winchester. This is in addition to the first the Savage BMag. This last gun will have several center-fire features–locking lugs, claw extractor,threaded in barrel, and Accu Trigger. The Savage will be in dealers by mid April, the others by late summer. Most of these will be bolt guns, but it looks like Winchester will also offer it in a single-shot rifle. The only semi-auto that will be available is from Volquartsen for about 1300 dollars base price, which means with no options. I love qualiy rimfires, but not that much!! As was stated prior, I also live in a state that limits the use of centerfire guns. Several sites have already field tested this ammo and said that the ballistics are slightly better than advertised. This is the first 200 yard rimfire and a true game-changer. If you dont presently own a 17HMR or a 22Mag why in the world wouldnt you buy this new gun??? Even if you do own one of the above or both this new round basically makes them second class, possibly obsolete.
Steve,
I just today got an eMail response from Ruger that they have no plans to make a rifle chambered in 17WSM. If I do not miss my guess, I think that there will be a wait and see response to the 17WSM popularity. My opinion.
This could really take off and morph into rifles with interchangeable barrels and available in .17 WSM, .20 WSM & .22 WSM all using the same magazine, action, bolt, etc., etc.. This could be the answer for everyone who does not reload or doesn’t have the time to reload, just as long as there is ammo availability and it isn’t overpriced.
RAD57, that is an excellent idea. Use the .17 for bunnies, the .20 for woodchucks, and the .22 for coyotes. Sounds like a fine trifecta.
I like rimfires and love the 22′s and 22mag. They have some really super ammo for them now that really performs great. I personaly would not want to use a 17 on anything bigger than Prarie Dogs. Coyote in my opinion is to big for such a tiny bullet. Yes I know you could kill it but you could also kill it with a screw driver if you were close enough. Don’t get me wrong I love the rimfire and would definatly shoot the heck out of it if I had one. But for Coyote I will stick with my old Model Remington 788 22-250. With the varmit ammo they have out now in factory stuff I say the 22-250 on coyote is like the 1911 45 on ending the conflict. It only takes one shot. Plus I live in Texas and don’t have worry about caliber on varmits. You could use a 404 Jefferies if you felt like it. But I would like to try out this new 17 and see what it will and wont do. The fall or drift would be better on windy days if it does what they claim. I would however like to see in slow motion on a can of shook up soda it’s cheap fun. All I can say is keep shooting and have fun doing it.
This is the first time I have read any of the detailed conversation posted here on Guns America. I’m a 62 year old novice, when it comes to the new weaponry and ballistics. I know when I use my 22 Magnum on a chuck here in NW Ohio in will get the job done, but I’m not using it for 200 yard shots. I have even taken out a couple with a 9mm S&W and my 1911 but not the weapons of choice when it comes to cost of ammo . I too, didn’t understand the differences in the new .17 rounds, so I appreciate the facts presented in a manner that the novice can understand. I would also like to point out that the administrator is representing a fine organization and should make his responses accordingly, not in a demeaning manner. You could very well loose a lot of potential new readers and also a lot of readers that follow you on a regular basis.
hi never been here before but i would like to put my 2 cents in. to start .17 hmr not enough gun i cant say ive seen anything walk away that was hit good and for some all the law allows is rimfire on small game and predators.where i live i have to use my hmr on coyotes during any open deer season including bow so that being said any improvements is a big advantage. ive owned 3 22mags and can honestly say that my hmr is more accurate even better than my custom 22 target rifle thats where a 17 shines. i love my 17 but a bigger one has got to be better so as soon as marlin comes out with one its mine not knocking savage i have a realy nice 22-250 from them but for rimfire i grew up shooting marlins. all guns fill a niche this one maybe better or worse for some but i can def see that for me it most likely will be a game changer. happy shooting and dont let certain not mentioned people take that away!
As far as on paper, the .17WSM looks incredible. It does have one drawback to the HMR, though. Price. There will be a reduction in the number of shots you can take in a given session per dollar spent on ammo. More money, less varmints taken care of (or less practice/fun). Since the round comes from a parent case of a .27 caliber nail gun blank, anyone else foresee .27 caliber rimfires in the future? .27lr maybe?
The extra velocity of the super mag will definitely make a big difference. The increase in hydrolic shock will be very noticeable. I prefer heavier bullets then 20 Gr but at 3000FPS, they are going to do some serious damage up to Coyote size game.
If ammo costs are close to the 17HMR, it may make the 17HMR a short lived wonder. Given the choice for a new rifle at similar cost of shooting, the velocity king will win. Winchester is already making different bullet choices available and soon there will be bullets from 15gr to 25 gr. The 25 gr is a tougher bullet for better penetration.
The old Remington 17 center fire spits a 25 GR bullet at 4000FPS and the little bullet at 4000 fPS does amazing damage to anything it hits. It long ago proved that light weight 17 cal bullets at very high velocity could take coyote and bigger game far away.
I believe that if is ammo cost is comparable to 17HMR, Winchester 17 super mag will be the 17 of choice very soon. I won’t likely buy one but for non hand loaders it is a great choice. Goodbye 17HMR.
just bugs me that they’re promoting the new .17 to be far superior in performance than the .22 Hornet. Logically, the old Hornet still beats it by a margin. The new .17 interests me and I may end up with one, but dont promote it as something its not…
What is going on with the availability of the Savage B-Mag? It’s nowhere on their website, I’ve been looking since January and there’s not even a “coming soon” announcement.
This round has great appeal to those who live in areas that have laws restricting hunting areas to “rimfire ammunition” (vs “centerfire ammunition”). I would never have believed there would be such a restriction, but in the county next to mine, there is such a thing……
Well, I am sold on the new 17 WSM and have ordered a Savage B Mag and some ammo.
I have owned a Savage HMR since the round became popular and know what to expect from the WSM. Having more years shooting and hunting with rimfires as well as a lot of centerfires longer than most of you have been living, I am excited about the WSM.
I think the WSM is going to be very popular and will stick around. I don’t think it will make the HMR go by the wayside.
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