Webley & Scott “Slingshot” Pump Shotgun – New Gun Review – Model 612

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The good news about the Webley & Scott 600 series shotgun is that our test gun shot exactly to point of aim at 10 yards with popular home defense load, and the patterns were consistently perfect.

The gun has what can only be described as a “slingshot” action. It isn’t a pump and it isn’t an autoloader. You pull back the forearm as shown, then let it go, like a slingshot. A spring assembly in the gun returns it to battery, seating the next round. The action release is at the front of the trigger guard, if you are starting from a hammer cocked condition you need to pull the lever to break the action, like you would with a pump gun.

If you forget and push the forearm forward like a traditional pump, more than not this results in a jam that looks like this. The shell is not being held by the extractor, so you have to shake the gun sideways to remove the shell. In a funfight it would mean certain death.

Otherwise the gun performed flawlessly with modern combat loads. We had a few failures with the longer SAAMI length Winchester Mil-Spec 9 pellet OO buck. The slightly longer shell not only makes the gun sluggish to go into battery, it also reduces the magazine campacity from 5 to 4.

If you are buying this gun over the internet, beware that our local gun dealer in Okeechobee Florida had two of these guns and both had severely blemished paint.

These may look like oil stains but they are not. The guns look like they were spray painted in someone’s garage with Krylon from Wal-Mart.

The image of a centuries old gunmaker does not match the truth of what you are buying. These Webley & Scott home defense guns are made in Turkey by a factory of dubious lineage and quality control. The side by sides and over/unders being sold under the W&S name are a different story. They are apparently being made by Fausti in Italy, which are great guns, but still not the Birmingham, England based Webley & Scott that closed up decades ago.

Check out this PDX1-12 pattern. Though the lineage of the gun is not what you would think, you can’t discount that it worked really well when you used the slingshot correctly with ammo it liked. This is a picture perfect pattern, aimed exactly at point of impact, and they were all like this.

The messed up paint was strange for Turkish guns, because as you can see from the buttpad, generally the guns from Turkey are neat and clean. This pad looks nice but it did little to negate the punishing recoil of buckshot in this six pound fixed breech shotgun.

Notice that the name of the guns is bead engraved the model Komando. Kim Komando, the radio personality, probably had something with it now being called the Model 612. It is all legal, and these guns will carry the Webley & Scott name for the ages. Do you know what else is legal in Reno, NV?

Webley & Scott
http://www.webleyandscott.com/

One of the byproducts of the artificial gun shortage we just experienced is that a lot of guns that otherwise wouldn’t have made it to dealer shelves not only made it, but sold out. One of those was a new line of shotguns from an old brand called Webley & Scott. Don’t be fooled. This is a purchased name that is being put on guns that are made by modern manufacturers in Turkey and Italy. The old Webley & Scott, originally from Birmingham, England, is long dead and buried, and with them went their production of some of the finest shotguns and rifles in history. Still, these new guns coming out under the W&S name are very interesting. We haven’t gotten a look at the Italian SxS and O/U guns, but in the home defense realm, they have a new “slingshot action” that is somewhat unique. It isn’t a true pump and it isn’t a true autoloader, but rather something in between. We bought one, just to see if it works, and to see if this type of action could be the next revolution in home defense shotguns. The street price is around $300 for our tested model, and for the most part it worked great. The slingshot action is something that you would have to get used to, but for a new fangled gimmick, at least it mostly works. The only problem is that new shooters might see the Webley & Scott moniker and buy this gun thinking that it is tried and true design from a trusted name. It isn’t, and they aren’t. The original Webley & Scott engineers are most likely wretching in their graves knowing that someone is pawning off Turkish junk under the auspices of their good names, but the guns do work, and they are inexpensive.

The action of the gun works like a standard pump, except you don’t push the forearm back to lock up the next shell into the action. Instead, you pull it back and let go, like a slingshot. A spring assembly built into the pump returns the gun to battery. That means you have to have to, um… let go of the forearm oops. This would be the downside to this new “technology,” and good luck finding even one tactical expert that would suggest that you buy such an ill conceived “feature” for any kind of defensive situation. Still, the Webley & Scott slingshot action shotgun does work. You can train yourself to jack the forearm back and let it go, following it forward with your hand, and grabbing it again when the gun is in battery. Is it quicker than pumping it yourself? Maybe, but only in a 3-Gun competition type of situation where you are using very light loads in timed fire. In that case, why not just use a semi-auto? In a defensive situation, with full snot defense loads, you wouldn’t be jacking shells quick enough for it to matter. But theoretically, maybe, if you are of the ilk to not keep a round in the chamber on your home defense weapon, you could, if you were well rehearsed at doing so, potentially get that first round quicker into battery than you would be able to with a standard pump gun. Again, good luck finding anyone who would give you the advice to depend on it for a quick first shot.

Our test gun weighs just over 6 lbs. empty, and the recoil is fairly stiff with 2 3/4″ buckshot and home defense specialty loads. This is the non-pistol grip version, and they also have one with a pistol grip. Both guns have 20″ barrels, and theoretically hold 5 rounds in the magazine. Our tests showed that with standard 2 3/4″ shells you can only fit 4, but with the new shorter defense shells, it does reach the 5 shell capacity. It has a 3″ chamber, but we did not test it with 3″ shells. The 2 3/4″ shells are more punishment than most shooters would choose to take.

The major problem with the gun is when you forget and pump the forearm forward by mistake. It nearly always results in a failure to feed. This doesn’t bode well for anyone’s ability to get woken up at 3 a.m. and be able to get the gun into quick service. Maybe a new shooter, who has not grown up with traditional pump guns, could train him or herself to reliably let go of that forearm, but for the rest of us, it’s a no go. Even after half a dozen magazines we had problems remembering to let go in snapfire types of drills. In a gunfight nearly everyone turns into a slave to tunnelvision, where you can only concentrate on the threat. Pumping this gun forward for your first round will put the gun out of action, and most likely lead to the untimely demise of the shooter and those she or he had hoped (past tense) to protect. Did I mention that the guns are cheap though?

I find it somewhat fraudulent to use the tagline “Gunmakers 1790″ on any of these guns. Buying that name was most likely intended to take advantage of the ignorance of new shooters, of which there are millions since the elections of 2008, 2012, and the Sandy Hook powergrab crisis. If you count yourself among our new ranks, be aware that there are games like these going on in the market . Selling guns like these from Turkey that are of dubious lineage, and come with little if any prior history of reliability, parts availability or customer service, under the names of famous gunmakers from ages past, is being done by design. Lifetime shooters would never guy one of these except as a curiosity. If you are a new shooting enthusiast looking for the most home defense shotgun for the money, on a tight budget, you would be much better off buying a Made in USA Maverick shotgun from Mossberg than this Webley & Scott, for about the same price.

To end on a positive note, the nice thing we found about this shotgun is that it shot exactly to point of aim, and that it is choked properly for the performance of high end self defense loads. Ultimately that is what matters most in a home defense gun. If you work the action exactly as it is supposed to be worked on this gun, it never fails with modern defense loads. The longer standard SAAMI shells did have some failures, but if you stuck to the new shells that come in 10 packs you’d be ok.

If we were still back several months ago, when the only home defense shotgun you could buy at a gun store may have been this Webley & Scott slingshotgun, the bottom line is that that it works and shoots well. Hindsight being 20/20, we should have done a video to show you the absurdity of the action and letting go of the front of the gun in a gun fight. Maybe we’ll still do one and add it to the article later. It is comical. But a gun is a gun is a gun when you have no gun, and this gun works, at a very reasonable price. Now that the artificial gun boom has subsided, we’ll see a lot of these come onto the market used, so be aware that they were originally cheap guns from Turkey based on an ill conceived concept, and that they should be treated as such. The Italian Webley & Scott side by sides and over/unders are being made by Fausti in Italy, and that is a whole other story, so don’t take this as a review of those gun whatsoever. Most likely they are a great buy, and we have heard that Bass Pro is carrying them as standard inventory. These Turkish guns were just a play at getting a cut of the home defense market using an old and trusted name, and though they work as advertised, the Webley & Scott slingsshots are probably not the best choice when full fledged Mossbergs, Mavericks and Remingtons are in the market and available at normal prices.

{ 15 comments }

{ 14 comments… add one }

  • Evan July 15, 2013, 12:23 pm

    Sounds like an unnecessary piece of garbage with an idiotic design. I’ll stick to my Mossberg 500, which can hold five 3-inch shells and has a regular, intuitive pump action. Turkey can keep their bizarre slingshot action shotguns.

  • Jack Bachman July 15, 2013, 1:14 pm

    Never heard of a “funfight” before.

    • Administrator July 15, 2013, 1:42 pm

      LOL much less dangerous.

      • Jack July 15, 2013, 5:53 pm

        I see a kiddie pool full of jello and a bikini clad female staring me down from across that pool…..”funfight”.
        Nothing with this gun seems right. Will stick with the Saiga 12 “auto”.
        By the way I’m 65 and know my ass will get kicked in the “funfight”. But as Little Feat said…”I’m still wllin”.

  • KMacK July 15, 2013, 3:09 pm

    Interesting design. If the forearm were separate from the action-grip I could see this as a very fast shotgun. Hold with the non-dominant hand forward, reach and grasp the action-grip, pull straight back and slide your hand around the grip with the index finger up on the receiver and away from the trigger. For a “rightie”, the left hand would keep the butt against the shoulder while the right slid forward, gripped the action-grip, pulled back and released while moving back to the stock with the index finger on the receiver. Now THAT would be fast and you would never lose your sighting point.
    Sadly, that isn’t how the thing works. So close… and so far away.

  • Robert Woodcock July 17, 2013, 6:19 pm

    No thanks

  • Muhjesbude August 25, 2013, 4:51 pm

    You know, back in the days when 870′s and Model 10 or 15 Smith revolvers ruled the beat, mainly because of the higher cost of anything ‘more modern’, and of course the lack of good semi-autos. (besides the slabside, calm down) there legacies simply can’t break out of the mindset of modern reality. Back in those days the Jennings or Raven Saturday night specials the good guys were most likely to match up with, these wheelguns and pump Remingtons worked well. But after the Illinois State Po Po ushered in the semi-auto Smith 39 high cap as a standard issue, the rest is History. Gangs and serious bandidos began carrying 30 round tec-9s and their own shotguns and eventually AK’s.

    Glock and Beretta took paramilitary pistols to the limit and pushed wheelers into obsolescence but for some inexplicable reason pump shotguns still hung on. But finally expensive competition low mag capacity semi-autos left the trap and skeet leagues and entered street combat games. Semi Auto high cap shotguns now rule in the advanced police game. And, they would be a much better choice, if you can afford a good one, than anything else for home defense. A couple years ago I suggested on several blogs that someone should take note of the success of the ‘quality debatable’ Siaga and come up with an AR-15 platform style 12 guage with quick detach magazines, which would be vastly superior in a fire fight over a tube fed semi-auto 12 ga. And actually hold up against an AK or AR in very CQB, with some highly proficient operators acttually preferring them against anything under certain tactical variance. Well, they’re coming out now, and all i’ll say is, forget about pump actions for fast action firefights or personal defense. I don’t care how fast you are with the pump action, with a semi, as the fractions of seconds turn into hours in your tunnel vision focus, you don’t have to take your point of aim off the target and between the time it takes for your adversary, if he has a pump, to jack in a shell, guess what you’ll be doing? As soon as you can afford one of the better ultra reliable ones, get one. that would be a real firepower advantage.
    If your budget is only 300 dollars for something that could mean the difference in life or death for you or your family, well, then i don’t know if i’d trust something like this until it’s proven if you really think it’s cool, but for around 300 there are a couple other pretty reliable tactical pumps on the market.

  • eric January 4, 2014, 1:30 pm

    Just picked one of these up at a gun show for around $200. It is defiantly unusual with the slingshot type acton but I kind of like it. So far it’s shot great and I can’t complain. The grip is really nice and it came with a breachers choke as well. The rubber buttstock shoulder pad is nice and helps out a lot. The sights are fairly decent and easy to sight in. I would defiantly take a 500 pump over this, but for the price, this gun isn’t bad at all.

  • unknown January 15, 2014, 9:09 am

    TAKE THE SPRING OUT!!! I DID

  • Grey Wolf March 8, 2014, 1:43 pm

    I found that removing the return spring that performs the “slingshot” action turns the firearm into a pretty reliable standard pump action (albeit a lot lighter weight than a Mossberg 500). I have yet to have a fail to feed with the spring removed firing cheap Federal white-box loads.

  • chris March 13, 2014, 10:28 am

    Just bought one and the slingshot action is very smooth. It is not difficult to get use to it. This new feature takes seconds of shooting the next round. Great Gun for the price.

  • Chris April 11, 2014, 9:13 am

    I bought the 612 model shotgun and must say less than two weeks of having it the stock became wiggly for no apparent reason, and the forearm was leavin an indentation on the receiver. It’s in the gunsmith shop now and it’s been two weeks without it. Who knows when I’ll get it back. My next purchase will be a Mossberg. And of course I wonder how the dealer here in Medina, Ohio was STUPID enough to sell a piece of shit like this. Especially when I was stupid enough to pay $459 for it. Assholes. Funfight? What’s fun?

    • Administrator April 11, 2014, 11:20 am

      They came when it was not possible to get any mossbergs or even those escort guns from legacy. That is why the dealers bought them. There were no other home defense shotguns to buy.

  • Robert October 29, 2014, 9:37 am

    I first read this review on my phone at a gun show before I bought one of these. Just thought I’d leave a comment for any other prospective purchasers.

    Thanks to those who said “just remove the spring”, I went for it. I used it with the spring in for a couple sessions of shooting, and did not experience any jams whatsoever. However, two things caused me to remove the spring…#1. To facilitate combat loading via the ejection port, and #2. to make it easier to cycle shells for my wife in case she ever needs to use it defensively.

    That being said, it takes about ten seconds to easily remove or install the spring and now it works like a normal shotgun.

    On another page I read that the forearm rubs the receiver, and indeed it does, although it’s more of a cosmetic concern than a practical one (the 6th picture down on this page shows the mark it leaves on the receiver). While I had the gun apart to remove the spring I noticed that the inside of the polymer forearm/slide had rough/crisp edges. I rounded them all with some sandpaper, and worked it smooth with some 600 grit wet, then some comet, then some toothpaste on a rag until it was smooth as a baby’s rear. Then I gave it a little squirt with some high quality silicone lube.

    Yes, it’s unfortunate to have to mess with a new gun, but hey – five minutes later you’ve got a fantastic defensive shotgun, with a unique design. So far, I love it, it shoots great, and seems very reliable.

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