ATF Guidance Letter for Stabilizing Braces Says Each Firearm Considered on ‘Case by Case Basis’

The ATF’s newly leaked “guidance letter” clarifies little for gun owners. (Photo: ATF Facebook)

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has leaked a notice set to be published in the federal register today that purports to provide guidance to gun owners on whether the addition of a stabilizing brace transforms a pistol into an NFA-regulated short-barreled rifle (SBR).

The proposed new rule comes after the ATF reversed their position on stabilizing braces in October, telling gun company Q, Inc., that their “Honey Badger” pistol would be considered an SBR while fitted with a brace. After an uproar from gun owners and manufacturers, the agency promised to clarify their ruling.

According to today’s notice, the ATF will consider factors like caliber, length, weight, and sights when classifying firearms equipped with a stabilizing brace. The guidance also clarifies that the ATF makes determinations on individual firearms “holistically on a case-by-case basis.” In other words, the ATF claims it does not and has not ruled that any make or model of pistol brace exempts all firearms from NFA classification.

The pro-gun group Gun Owners of America pointed out in a press release that, contrary to the new guidance, the ATF has issued approval letters for pistol braces in the past.

“Although ATF issued classification letters which approved various pistol braces, this Notice apparently would rescind all those prior letters,” the group said. “Going forward, ATF claims that a ‘classification pertains only to the particular sample submitted’ — meaning a particular firearm, with a particular brace, outfitted in a particular way with particular accessories. If any of those change, the classification would no longer apply.”

SEE ALSO: Lawmakers Send Letter to ATF to Stop Secret Rules Restricting Pistol Braces

The ATF provided a list of supposedly objective features they will consider when determining whether a firearm is considered an NFA item even when fitted with a pistol brace. This list, they say, is not exhaustive.

  • Type and caliber – Firearms chambered in larger calibers that would be impractical to fire with one hand will likely be considered rifles or shotguns. The ATF does not name which calibers it will consider impractical.
  • Weight and length – Firearms that are too heavy or long to be fired with one hand will likely be considered rifles or shotguns. The ATF does not provide objective criteria for what it will consider too heavy or long.
  • Length of pull – Firearms with a long length of pull will likely be considered rifles and shotguns since LOP does not need to be very long for a pistol brace to be attached to a wrist or forearm. The ATF does not say how short a firearm’s LOP must be to be considered a pistol.
  • Attachment method – Firearms fitted with receiver extensions or spacers indicate that the weapon is meant to be fired from shoulder and will likely be considered rifles or shotguns.
  • Brace design features – Firearms with braces that mimic stocks too closely will likely be considered rifles and shotguns. In making its determination, the ATF will consider features like the amount of rear contact surface area and whether features benefit use as a stock but not use as an arm brace. (Presumably, this might include something like a cheek riser.)
  • Aim point – If the gun cannot be properly aimed while using an arm brace, it will likely be considered a rifle or shotgun.
  • Secondary grip – Firearms with secondary grips will likely be considered rifles or shotguns.
  • Sights and scopes – Firearms fitted with scopes or sights that cannot be used with an arm brace (if the eye relief too short, for example) will likely be considered rifles or shotguns.
  • Accessories – Firearms fitted with bipods or magazines that make the firearm too heavy to be used with an arm brace will likely be considered rifles or shotguns.
  • Marketing – The ATF will consider how a firearm is marketed in determining the manufacturer’s intended use of a pistol brace.
  • Use – The ATF will consider how a firearm fitted with a brace has been used by gun owners and the firearm media in making its determinations.

Despite this seemingly comprehensive list, gun rights groups have noted that the ATF is short on specifics. Even though the agency claims that they will “apply the evaluation factors objectively, not subjectively,” and that “no classification will depend upon the physical attributes of a particular [ATF officer],” the ATF does not say what those objective criteria are.

“In other words, ATF’s ‘objective factors’ will be a secret, and will be interpreted entirely subjectively,” the GOA says in its press release.

SEE ALSO: Feinstein’s 2019 Assault Weapons Ban Targets Pistol Braces, Amongst the Usual Suspects

Not every pro-gun group is as fired up as GOA. The Firearms Policy Coalition points out that the ATF’s new guidance does not constitute a total ban on pistol braces because it acknowledges that the mere presence of a brace does not automatically convert the firearm into one under the purview of the NFA.

The FPC also points out that the ATF acknowledges that most gun owners acted in good faith when they purchased their firearms and braces. The new rule claims the ATF and DOJ will develop an expedited process by which current brace owners will be able to register their rifles under NFA guidelines, and the DOJ has promised to waive the $200 tax stamp for these individuals.

If gun owners do not wish to register a firearm that has not been deemed to be a pistol, they can permanently remove the brace and dispose of it, replace the barrel with something longer (great than 16 inches for a rifle, 18 inches for a shotgun), surrender the firearm to ATF, or destroy the firearm.

It’s unclear whether gun owners who have built pistols from parts will be allowed to participate in this expedited process.

Until that process has been put in place, the ATF claims they won’t prosecute anyone for owning stabilizer-equipped firearms purchased in good faith.

The ATF is accepting comments for 14 days after the date of publication in the federal register, which has not happened as of 12/18/2020 10:21 AM EST. The ATF provides a full set of instructions for submitting comments online, by mail, and by fax, but the easiest way will be to search for the docket number – ATF 2020R-10 – on Regulations.gov and submit a comment from there.  

(A note for gun owners: The ATF will not consider comments “containing excessive profanity.”)

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About the author: Jordan Michaels has been reviewing firearm-related products for over four years and enjoying them for much longer. With family in Canada, he’s seen first hand how quickly the right to self-defense can be stripped from law-abiding citizens. He escaped that statist paradise at a young age, married a sixth-generation Texan, and currently lives in Waco. Follow him on Instagram @bornforgoodluck and email him at jordan@gunsamerica.com.

{ 81 comments… add one }
  • JOC January 15, 2021, 9:12 am

    I’m not registering s***. They can come and take ‘em if they want ‘em. I’m at the point I’d rather throw down than lay down. I’m done dancing to their bs, made-up laws. “Shall not be infringed” is simple and plain to me.

  • 2AMsupporter December 22, 2020, 12:28 pm

    https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

    Per Mr. Scarr 10Oct:
    You aptly point out several requirements where the ATF must get Congressional
    approval for changes, etc. I’m assuming this does/will apply to the proposed
    changes by the ATF to further infringe on the 2d Amendment.

    From that it follows that in fact that Congress is not directly passing a law, but in
    effect is doing so by voting to allow it. I.E., it is making a law to that effect.
    Thus, they made the pre-existing defintion (somewhat poorly defined) of a pistol
    vs. SBR a law. If follows then that they will have made a new law which makes
    an AR Pistol that was legal before to be now illegal. Accordig to the U.S. Constitution
    they cannot do that.:
    Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution states “No Bill of Attainder or ex post
    shall be passed”. Isn’t that pretty clear?
    Therefore, changing the definition of an firearm that was previously legal to
    make it illegal is unconstitutional, i.e. “ex post facto”.

    Standing by for corrections on that point of view.

    Next, there’s the Second Amendment itself, which in recent times has been
    the subject of “interpretation”. Some say it’s out of date or doesn’t mean
    what we all know it actually does. If one wants to understand the real meaning
    of what’s written there, refer to the “Federalist Papers”. There you find the
    meanings of the words used at that time and the motivation behind them.
    In a nutshell, it’s clear it has nothing to do with hunting nor a military like
    we have now (originally there was to be NO standing army). With that in mind
    it becomes clear that a large part of the reason it’s there and worded that
    way is to be backstop against a rogue government as was at the time the
    British Governemnt. Those authors of the Constitution had no doubt that
    it could occur in our new country and put this backstop in there to give the
    citizens the ability to resist, just like a military would. Of course that does
    logically lead to the idea they the citizenry should have arms equal to
    their oppressors. Its meaning is clear and not to be interpreted using
    current and carefully chosen misleading meanings but only by the meanings
    when it was written. Period.
    There is a process for changing the Constitution if you don’t like the way
    it is written and the 2d Amendment is not likely to have that attack be
    successful. That explains why the ‘underhanded, meaning-changing and
    lying approach to artificially altering the meaning is underway. To make
    it worse, the younger generations aren’t even taught what was called a
    “Civics” class today which makes them fodder for this nonsense.
    Apparently “dumbing down” is being successful to the glee of politians.

    Maybe a simple definition or two is needed here… How about this from a
    friend wiser than I:
    “All the distinctions about barrel length, arm brace, etc, etc, are used to try to follow the laws and regulations. They also can be used to beat on gun owners if that’s what you want to do. We know how that’s going to go in the coming years. So, getting into the weeds seems like a fool’s errand.
    To me the question should be, does the instrument at hand go “bang” and throw a projectile that can result in bodily harm? In that case it is protected by the 2nd Amendment and you can legally buy and own one with certain limitations (age, clean criminal record, not crazy, etc.) We do place other restrictions–no machine guns without extra special permission, rocket launchers are frowned upon, etc. But IMHO, the configuration, how many rounds the magazine holds, etc, are irrelevant. I expect in the years ahead every law and regulation will be studied to see how it can be used to restrict, cost, inconvenience and annoy a gun owner and a would-be gun owner.”

    Lastly, we have the Biden bunch who has admitted they wants to take our
    guns. His policies are without a doubt designed to be the beginning of
    the slippery slope and the horrible end result of that. I’ll leave that to
    your imagination, but it won’t be pretty.
    But more importantly right now, we need to prescient as to the outright
    treason he’s going to commit on Jan 20th… His oath clearly states he
    “…will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the
    Constitution of the United States.”
    His attack on the 2nd Amendment cannot be interpreted in any
    way as a straight-on violation of that Oath. We’ve got to call
    him on that. Of course that would require the Justice Dept file
    charges and/or the Congress impeaches him… good luck with that.

  • Shanz December 19, 2020, 2:11 pm

    You guys watch the series WACO. It will tell you all you need to know about the hierarchy at FBI and ATF.
    Careful though, it will piss you off. They get tanks and are worried if we shoulder SBRs?

  • Bpb December 19, 2020, 2:08 am

    Reread “Unintended Consequences”

  • Ken December 18, 2020, 10:50 pm

    Luckily all I own are potato and rubber band guns,I think I’m gonna take them out on the lake this weekend in my boat from the flex seal commercial…fingers crossed

  • oldfuzz695 December 18, 2020, 7:54 pm

    To protect citizens against a government of tyranny and oppression. Some day we will have had enough. Remember when the Jap leader said about why they didn’t go ahead and invade the West Coast of the U.S.? “There’s a gun in every household. We would not succeed.”

  • Ozark Muleskinner December 18, 2020, 4:04 pm

    Long story short, the ATF’s position is, that they’ll say and do anything and everything possible to make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens.

    When government fears citizens, there is freedom. When citizens fear government, there is tyranny.

  • White Privilege December 18, 2020, 2:49 pm

    I’m surprised to see so many gun owners so ready to roll over for the ATF hoping to hear that they are such good boys and have followed every arbitrary law change at the whim of the crown. Time for your treat, just pay $200 for it. Do y’all even support the 2nd?

    • Don December 18, 2020, 6:03 pm

      You didn’t read the article. The $200 FET is being waived. Registration will be free.

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:12 pm

      Refuse. Resist. If everyone does they’re powerless. Wake up!

  • parker December 18, 2020, 1:01 pm

    i think it’s time that people and manufacturers start paying attention to the storm that’s brewing. gun lovers like you and i have had it great, but there are people and companies out there that push everything to the max. Q’s honey badger is a perfect example, that so called brace is actually a collapsible shoulder stock that had been pushed beyond the legal limits. so what happens when the laws are stretched to the breaking point, they snap back into our faces and the government gets out their magic pen. so not liking to be made the fool they not only make the problem piece illegal, they go for everything.
    a few years ago open carry was legal in california and a group of morons wanted to express their rights. so on sunday morning they would go to a family restaurant packing side arms and carrying ar-15′. now, after the police and newspapers were involved we have a new law that no longer allows the right to open carry. my point being that it only takes one person, as in the las vegas massacre, or a small group as mentioned above to ruin it for everyone. what is coming down to with the anti-gun movement is that we must be diligent, but don’t poke the nasty dog with a stick.

    • White Privilege December 18, 2020, 2:19 pm

      Yes, how dare we anger the masters who arbitrarily make laws more oppressive based on how much the people are protesting unjust laws. Time to grow a pair and stand up for your rights before you dont have any. People standing by and wishing for good news from the opportunists laying in wait to eliminate all of your rights based on any perceived public uprising against the crown and the people they serve (not voters) will soon have all of their rights stripped. Joe says you ok only need a shotgun, so soon the peasants will only be “allowed” to own a shotgun.

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:14 pm

      That’s because they’ve already infringed and the cowardly sheeple give in. Do you think the folks who fought to create our great country gave a damn what the King wanted? Grow a pair.

    • Rattlerjake December 18, 2020, 11:56 pm

      It might be well for you to get your head out of your ass and learn a little history. Open carry wasn’t stopped in Commiefornia “a few years ago”, it happened in 1967 and was called the Mulford Act. It was enacted by Gov. Ronnie Raygun and supported by the NRA. Our 2nd Amendment rights have been under assault since the NFA (1934) was enacted and hasn’t stopped, thanks to the NRA. Now the left is going all out in multiple states and by the unconstitutional BATF to piece by piece whittle away the rest of our gun rights. Putting the blame on gun manufacturers for “pushing everything to the max” is exactly what is expected from half-asses like you. The 2nd amendment is very clear – THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!!!

  • Frank December 18, 2020, 12:55 pm

    Everyone is waiting for the first domino to tumble. We the People have always been a patient sort. Now however, we’ve see that our most basic freedoms and rights have been sold/stolen. Sooner, rather than later, I suspect someone will nudge that first domino. When that happens…

  • John December 18, 2020, 12:46 pm

    You should have just spent $200.00 on your weapon to start with in stead of being cheap. So now use your pistol as a pistol as the arm brace was designed to be used. Believe me I dont agree with the whole NFA for SBR and suppressors unless it is select fire weapon which we should be able to import and purchase these with a tax stamp. You shouldnt have to be rich or in debt to own select fire.

    • Bpb December 19, 2020, 2:11 am

      You shouldn’t have to LIVE ON YOUR KNEES for your God given rights to defend you home & your family from criminals, and your nation from tyrants, but then there’s people like you trying to convince us kneepads make the pain go away.

  • Juliet Simpson December 18, 2020, 12:17 pm

    ATF can go get bent. This does nothing for crime or illegal guns on the street, just shafts the legal compliant gun owner. They are ready to grow again into a totalitarian agency with vague rules (not law) under Joe Biden. They had a secret meeting with him recently, and now this. They can not even wait until Trump is out of office.
    Since they are willing to waive the fee for registering SBR’s and SBS’s, I will register a bunch. Now I can get that short barrel shotgun that I always wanted. F– them.

    • Ken December 18, 2020, 10:02 pm

      Only problem is registration leads to confiscation down the road…I’m assuming that’s the only reason that the ATF would be in such a giving mood

  • dave brown December 18, 2020, 11:28 am

    It seems like we want it all, and I can understand, as so do I. However, yep However, I was brought into the shooting sports at the age of 12 by The Old NRA and local Sports Clubs, Thank You Folks as I have been Gunning ever since, and I don’t plan to stop at age 68. Now I don’t much care for the right or the left as I would rather vote on Issues or The Person, and not a so-called Party. By that I mean I have been waiting for 40 years or more for The Right to give us National Carry, and Nat. CC would be The Bomb. Plus I am waiting on The Right to free up all of those Gun Free Zones AKA their offices and Government Buildings, but I ain’t holding my breath as they have not done much for us other then Talk….. Bump Stocks were interesting, and I thought, how long will these be legal. Arm Braces were the same, but I bought some before they changed their minds, and they would figure out that they are a threat to our LE. Sorry, but our LE should have been carrying SBR or Pistol Braces years ago, and they don’t need to face a bad guy with one of these brace things… So now that some of you are hopping mad, let me add that I used my Arm Braces to build a few toys. Yep, they are Fun Guns and totally increase the range of a pistol. Now look back and these have been around as a Handgun stocks for about 150 years or more, but never really caught on, and I am guessing were fround on by The Cops of the day.

    So I now have a MAC type in 9, a SIG pistol holder in 40 (but can be a 9 or 45), and a AK pistol (full size pistol not a mini) all setup and running with Arm Braces. I have a note taped to each brace that says Do Not Shoulder, and of course I shoulder em just like all of us would! Thus I am totally Illegal when I shoot em. Yes they are nice, but LE says No they make our jobs way to deadly. Now they don’t come face to face with them very often if ever, but they don’t want to. That is the reason you cannot own a full auto Tommy without paying for Stamps. So u all can do as I have done Before They Remove Em from the market, or you can sit by waiting and complaining with no clue as to why such firearms make being a Cop much more dangerous.

    Now I try not to shoot at ranges and if I do I do not shoulder one of my toys as the guy or lady next to me may be a Cop and decided to Lock Me Up. So it is your call, buy em now, or wait until they clamp down on em for very good reasons that we do not agree with, but we should be able to understand.

    Now it would be nice if you complainers got together and got the Right to give US National CCarry. God Bless Us All

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:18 pm

      Too deadly? What nonsense. Poor training is more like it. Ballistic shields, armor, night vision, little house demolishing tanks…..so who’s the danger?

  • Matt December 18, 2020, 11:01 am

    Well we don’t have to worry about them redefining a lot of what they said since there is no clear definition to begin with in a lot of it. So we can probably look for this to be used in what ever way the ATF want’s to use it. Which will be as un-objective as heck.

    Something undefined in court is what?

  • Beauregard December 18, 2020, 10:36 am

    Enough gun enthusiast didn’t speak up when bump fire stocks came under attack because “those things are just waste of ammo anyways”. Next up, arm braces…” I don’t even own one so it’s not a big deal”. People, please speak up for ALL gun features not just the one’s that YOU care about or your favorite “feature” will be next!

    • Kalashnikov Dude December 18, 2020, 11:21 am

      Nobody wanted to say anything because Trump did it. If Obama did that during his administration there would have been an uproar. As we can see clearly with hindsight, it was never about bump stocks. It was about increasing illegal restrictions on our right to keep and bear arms. And getting self described God fearing Conservatives to cheer it on. This was Trumps version of cartography. He gave Biden/Kamala and friends a roadmap to the destruction of our 2nd Amendment. And now shortly, he’ll peacefully transfer power to them so they can finish the job Trump’s been working on with them all along.

      • Scott December 18, 2020, 5:52 pm

        100% correct Kalashnikov Dude! A.T.F.= all the facists

    • Edgar December 18, 2020, 2:15 pm

      This is not about the brace…..this is about the ATF slowly methodically chipping away at our 2nd Amendment rights using one poor excuse at a time. Most people can understand why Automatic weapons are NFA items. But putting Pistol size ARs as NFA items is the most unnecessary thing…since suppressors.
      There is NOT one single argument that supports why suppressors should be regulated NFA items.
      An automobile without a muffler is unnecessarily loud, but with the muffler it’s acceptable….yet we cannot still hear the vehicle. The rifle is the same….it is unnecessarily loud, yet with a suppressor it’s more acceptable and anyone can still hear it. …..so why NFA it.

      1. The pistol sized AR simply a LESS effective weapon than the NON-regulated full size AR.
      The FULL size AR is easier to fire, produces more muzzle velocity which equals more terminal ballistics, is better suited to shouldering and firing with more control than the pistol sized AR.

      2. The pistol AR is NOT concealable ! unlike a non NFA hand gun.

      So why is the Arm Brace such a nefarious device ?

      If the ATF goes after the arm brace….what’s next ? Pistols….pistols are involved in more crime than all other gun categories. They are far more concealable.

      Point being we need to push back against anyone chipping away at our 2nd Amendment rights….perhaps you don’t own an Arm Brace or an AR Pistol…..but as they erode our rights little by little…..eventually they will be targeting something you used to take for granted.

      Until the first case goes to court …..we need to hold our ground on 2nd Amendment rights. Getting the 2A rights that we lost….back….has proven to be very difficult and exhaustive.

      • steve December 23, 2020, 7:14 am

        what about an AR pistol in 300 blkout? shoots your point all to hell

  • Alan December 18, 2020, 10:35 am

    Opening shot. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year they re-define pistol to exclude any firearm that doesn’t have the magazine contained in the grip.

  • Steve December 18, 2020, 10:17 am

    Obiden and Oharris are Obama pawns. I still can’t believe that half of this country is so ignorant. They are destroying America. Probably is not going to end well in the next 10 years or less. God help us. Amen.

    • Beauregard December 18, 2020, 10:40 am

      As I remember Obama boosted gun sales and didn’t make any attempt on banning anything, yet Trump banned bump stocks and you somehow overlooked that….typical.

      • Scott December 18, 2020, 5:48 pm

        Thanks Beauregard for pointing out what I’ve been saying for 4 years all this happened under Trump not Obama

        • Scott December 18, 2020, 5:49 pm

          And all my fellow gun owners out there should know that by Trump in the ATF saying bump stocks are NFA that gives them precedent on an accessory not a good thing boys and girls

      • Scott December 18, 2020, 6:05 pm

        Anyone who ever thought that Trump cared about our gun rights and the second amendment were fools. When the ATF and him arbitrarily outlawed bump stocks that set a precedent that will be used on any “accessory” like braces,foregrips,mags,all of it. Pay freaking attention kids!!!

      • Kane December 18, 2020, 6:29 pm

        Beauregard,

        Obama expanded the definition of people who would be considered “mentality deflective” and prohibited from owning or possessing firearms to include anyone receiving SSA disability insurance under Title II or SSI disability payments under Title XVI who also had a “representative payee” helping them with their financial affairs.

        So, any SSA claims, service representative or any other bureaucrat reviewing government records would be allowed to make a determination on the fitness of the recipients of these payments and report that person to the AG. This would have impacted more than 75,000 people at that time. It did NOT matter that there were relevant safety valves already in place. So someone’s grandpa who could NOT make it to the bank would be stripped of his 2A rights. That sounds like a “ban” to me.

        TRUMP reversed Barry Soetoro AKA Barak Hussein Obama’s oppressive and needless executive action.

    • Rusty December 18, 2020, 11:43 am

      Well, we lost BumpStocks, and now braces under Trump….

      AND, we lost the CHANCE of national Repricrocity and Suppressors being moved to Non-NFA accessories under a Republican Senate and House.

      And we are supposed to blindly vote for these turncoats, time after time??????

      Trump pulling TRUMPSTOCKs set a precedent that will now be used to disarm each n every one of us, by every future administration, inch by inch. It all started by the orange god of the Republican Party. (Funny, both he and Reagan were previously Democrats!!!). Oh, and on the subject of Reagan, why is it I, as a civilian, cannot own a newly manufactured MG?? I can only get one made previous to 1986 and pay thru nose!!

      During the Hussein reign, laws were signed that I have to abide by the host state while carrying concealed on federal lands (previously this was prohibited). Also, instead of needing a letter from my local Ranking Law Enforcement Officer to get NFA toys, I now only need to notify him/her. (Not asking permission, but just notifying makes the procedure better??)

      Oh, what year did the ATF issue OK for braces??

      My 2€

      • Shanz December 19, 2020, 2:03 pm

        Try living in California. Trump had nothing to do with all our laws out here. You say you hate Trump because he took bumpstocks. Have fun with your one party system that rules forever now unopposed. You will be begging for Trump when these people get started. Get ready for everything that they implemented in CA. No more ARs , no more ordering ammo online, handgun roster with “smart guns,” limit on what can be purchased, 10 day waiting period, one gun a month, no CCW issued, 10 or 5 round mag limit, no detachable mags, no carrying anywhere, no shooting allowed anywhere, huge DROS fees and background checks for buying ammo which will deny law abiding. Pretty much no 2nd at all.
        Trump could have done more but saying Dems will be better or just as bad is ludicrous. Careful for what you wish for Anti American Anti Trumpians.

  • Bones December 18, 2020, 10:16 am

    F$&k the ATF ,the no knock ,door busting deplorable bastards who like trump think theyre above the law.. suck my big d!!k .. hate the pigs and hillbillys..

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:18 pm

      That’s the spirit! Sua Sponte.

    • Kane December 18, 2020, 10:28 pm

      “hate the pigs and hillbillys..”

      Yep, you sure seem like the same “Bones” that was accusing all Christians of being intolerant.

  • Eeic December 18, 2020, 9:47 am

    Lots of strong feelings in these comments today.

    I find ATF’s seemingly always changing rules and interpretations pretty frustrating too. It’s irritating to have bought or built something that was good to go at the time, but is put on the naughty list after the fact.

    That said, braces have always struck me as pretty close to the line. Some designs very closely mimic the appearance of a stock. And the ones that don’t are funny looking. I know I bought my PSA triangle brace because it resembled an AK type triangle stock. That thing is sweet!

    If ATF has now decided its going to more tightly regulate braces, it should give us the straight dope. Let us know the forbidden calibers, LOP, features, accessories, etc. This totality of the circumstances stuff doesn’t work here.

    • Kalashnikov Dude December 18, 2020, 11:33 am

      Here’s the straight dope friend. All gun laws are illegal by the standard of “Shall Not Be Infringed”. The sole purpose and function of the BATFE is to infringe on We The People’s right to keep and bear arms. I won’t pretend to give folks legal advice. But as for me, I will defend to death the right to keep and bear arms, as prescribed in letter and spirit of the 2nd Amendment of our US Constitution and Bill Of Rights. That means any attempt at disarming me, kidnapping me, or imprisoning me over alleged violations of pretended legislation, or “color of law”, will be met with any and all force required to resist and defeat the armed thugs perpetrating it. I do this in defense of not only my own rights. But that of future generations. I couldn’t make it any plainer….

    • Ozark Muleskinner December 18, 2020, 4:10 pm

      Deep State Leftists and politicians are getting EXACTLY what they want with this and similar bureacratically arcane issues issues. We are arguing amongst ourselves; divide and conquer.

  • CU December 18, 2020, 9:30 am

    So expedited process and waiving the $200 tax stamp to have your pistol as a NFA item. That would mean its no longer a pistol, as they are not NFA items, and I could put whatever stock on it I want.

    • DavidInCO December 18, 2020, 11:02 am

      My thoughts exactly. Another thought I had is, this is just a big gun registration scheme. Sure, it’s “free” because now they will have a registry of another 4 million folks and what kinds of SBR’s or pistols they have. And, yes, many of them already own suppressors, etc. But the underhanded nature of it still burns my ass. Because they have made this a case-by-case evaluation, you have to let them know what you own just to get a determination. That amounts to an invasion of privacy among other things. This is a rogue agency and an enemy of the people.

      • CU December 18, 2020, 4:12 pm

        It’s absolutely a gun registry. Say for instance that you complied and submitted the paperwork for your firearm and they denied it. Now they know where to go to confiscated if they do not receive any further correspondence from you.

    • Steve Kendley December 18, 2020, 11:48 am

      If they become NFA, doesn’t that mean that can also become automatic firearms?
      This agency looses credibility every time they infringe, then allow, then infringe again. I fear the US may not even survive the next year. If it does not, then the silver lining is nether will BATF and all those folks can go get honest, productive jobs. The Second Amendment is very simple and clear. Why do we allow such a flagrant unconstitutional bureaucracy. We behave like cucks, watching Lady Liberty being raped. Some dogs you can kick over and over; then there’s other dogs you will wish you never woke. So far it seems we are the kind that just keep saying, “Oh, it don’t hurt that bad…”

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:19 pm

      That means confiscation. It’s a registry. No thanks. Live free or die.

  • Andrew December 18, 2020, 8:59 am

    I read the paper.
    So pistols that can’t be shot with one hand are considered rifles?
    I bet if one got footage of the training ranges used by the Batmen, they’d have to consider every one of their handguns as a rifle now.

    But also, a Smith 500 sounds like it’ll need registration, may as well get it a “brace”.
    Same wth “T/C Contenders” in large calibers or with big barrels.

    Better not roll over on this one like the Bumpy Stocks, but it may be too late.

    • Rattlerjake December 19, 2020, 12:13 am

      It doesn’t say they have to be fired accurately by one hand, so as long as you can hold it in one hand, off the ground, and pull that trigger it is a pistol! Too bad my Barrett pistol is so heavy!

  • Ed December 18, 2020, 8:45 am

    I’m just glad I don’t have any children. Because this is not the America that my wife, and I fought for!! Another words turn out the lights the party is over!

  • Kevin Martin December 18, 2020, 8:38 am

    The ATF can’t be clear on braces or what is considered a sbr. They want to mess with people rights. Time to take a stand

  • skipNclair Barker December 18, 2020, 8:25 am

    This agency like 99% of all government agencies should be abolished.

  • FAL Phil December 18, 2020, 7:40 am

    I am not a big proponent of cancel culture, but I could get behind cancelling the BATF.

  • Joe Folsom December 18, 2020, 7:40 am

    I find the ATF’s focus on SBR’s to be ludicrous and a poor use of their time. Instead of focusing on organize crime, inner city gangs and/or other serious crimes, they are focusing on the minutia of gun stock design. REALLY? The laws banning anything less than a 16″ barrel for rifles, suppressors that reduce noise levels to prevent hearing loss and stock designs to classify a weapon as a riffle or a pistol does NOTHING to protect and serve the best interests of our country or our communities. It is time we revise these laws and use some logic and common since to improve the way these laws were written. I can buy a pistol with a barrel any length I want that shoots as much as a hundred rounds with a large capacity magazine but can’t buy a rifle that does the same if the barrel is less than 16″ long. Really? What value is that requirement? Who does this law protect? I can buy a rifle with a foregrip (or any other accessary I want) attached but can not buy a pistol with the same. REALLY? Who does this protect? I can own a shotgun with a short or sawed off barrel as long as the stock is also short or sawed off but can not own a shotgun with a full stock and a short barrel. REALLY? Who does this protect? I can put a suppressor on any weapon I own as long as I pay a $200 tax (FOR EACH GUN). REALLY? Using a devise that reduces (NOT ELIMINATES) noise levels thereby allowing me to target practice without ear protection is illegal UNLESS I pay a $200/tax for that privilege protect who? These laws were poorly written, poorly executed and do not bring value or safety to our communities. It is time we revise them to be logical and allow our LEO to focus on real crimes instead of weapon design features that have no negative impact on our society or the security of our nation and it’s people. It is time we elect representatives that actually know a little something about weapons and their design to public office. Ill informed politicians that are still using incorrect terminology like ghost guns, clips, etc. do NOT need to be making laws governing something they know little to nothing about.

    • Bonnie Miller December 18, 2020, 9:29 am

      Very well thought out and written, Joe.

    • johnny easton December 18, 2020, 9:55 am

      Send your comment to the ATF.

    • Tony Marshall December 18, 2020, 10:28 am

      Any reasonable lawmaker, after a moment’s thought, would remove suppressers, SBR’s, and SBS’s from the NFA. Note that it is perfectly legal to possess a concealable pistol that fires .410 shotgun shells but anyone who possesses an unregistered .410 shotgun with a stock and a barrel less than 18″, can be sent to prison for 10 years. Does this make sense?

      • John December 18, 2020, 12:56 pm

        First no one in the media or government knows what NFA is and we dont want them to know what it is or we will lose that also.

    • David B December 18, 2020, 11:46 am

      The outrage, as I see it… is an incremental political move toward pay to play to enjoy the rights our constitution provide.
      We have the right to due process, But pay huge money to lawyers to fight in a system no common person can successfully navigate.

      We all live under the illusion of freedom, But are taxed at every turn to provide for those who refuse to carry their own weight. That’s slavery.

      The 2nd amendment does not dictate The right to keep and bare arms as a right for a fee.
      If the next administration does what it promises, With the stroke of a pen, and makes felons out of millions of formerly Law obiding citizens….that’s a dictatatorship.

      Next the right to free speech will come under fire. What to you think the price will be to keep that?

    • Rusty December 18, 2020, 11:52 am

      One error in your otherwise fine comment.

      The $200 tax is per Suppressor/Silencer, you can attach it to any gun it’ll fit after you possess it.

      This makes the more expensive “universal” silencers pretty attractive, if you want to deal with changing caps and baffles….

    • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:21 pm

      It’s easier to pick on law abiding folks. Criminals fight back. They are making us criminals. I have an idea…want to buy back my stuff? One billion dollars each.

  • Ron December 18, 2020, 7:21 am

    Unfortunately, this won’t matter since the first thing Biden will do is ban any weapons that would likely use a brace.

    The ATF routinely changes their opinions on past determinations, so people always need to be careful about assuming these rulings are fixed in stone.

  • Ronnie D Stidham December 18, 2020, 6:49 am

    With the DEMS taking office, they will do any, and all they want to, when they feel like it. Now it comes down to, are we the people going to let them. United we stand!

    • Michael Czmyr December 18, 2020, 8:36 am

      Semper Fi.

      • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:21 pm

        Sua Sponte Marine.

    • Franklin December 18, 2020, 10:13 am

      Civil War will be here again.

      • John December 18, 2020, 12:51 pm

        It wont happen as it has proven it self with the mask wearing. 99% of the people in my state wear them in stead of throwing them out in the street where they belong.

      • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:22 pm

        They are emptying the prisons to make room for gun owners.

  • Ryan Blackmon December 18, 2020, 6:41 am

    Now it begins……..

  • michael brown December 18, 2020, 6:23 am

    what about firearms that are labeled others 223 / 9mm and 45 acp others . they use pistol brace have barrel longer then 12 1/2 inch long with vertical foregrip as required . they are not listed as pistols or rifles

  • Dr Motown December 18, 2020, 6:06 am

    Waiting for Harris (er, Biden wink wink) to tell them the “specifics”….what a mess if they want to review every single firearm to subjectively determine what is a pistol or a SBR

  • Neil Jonielunas December 18, 2020, 6:00 am

    Oh, yes. Register them for free. No problems for those who comply. Stolen elections have consequences. SCOTUS to the rescue? It will never happen.

  • Erwin Gerbells December 18, 2020, 5:16 am

    We exercised our rights in November. How did that go???

    Phone calls, emails and protests have no effect. The corrupt powers that be just don’t care.

    Stand together and exercise our 2nd. Join as one unstoppable force or go down alone one, by one, by one….

    We’re at a tipping point in the history of this Republic. Do WE let the weight rollover upon us, or do WE push back and stand above.

    Grab a stick and stand by my side beating on the drum. Let the sound of that drum not just be heard, but felt by all that should be listening.

    Anyone??? All of us????

    • Rusty December 18, 2020, 11:59 am

      I beat the drum on the NRA app, and other forums, until my arm fell off, trying to get folks to realize the potential future impact of the TRUMPSTOCK debacle, but very few listened.

      Why don’t we all try to get an executive order outa Trump protecting our rights??

      Or is he simply too busy masterminding this??

      Or shamefully seething in WhiteHouse, whining cause his supporters are dying, when he did little??

      Time for us to wake up and see him in all his naked ambitions!!!!

  • Finger December 17, 2020, 4:08 pm

    This is absolutely fucking infuriating. We cannot let the fucking ATF change our gun laws with the stroke of a pen every time a new president takes office. This needs to go to the SCOTUS, time now.

    • michael December 18, 2020, 4:08 am

      I don’t think the solution is going to be had by Scotus. We may need to take more drastic actions. Or just give in.

    • Ghost December 18, 2020, 7:18 am

      The ATF has continually overstepped it’s authority. It’s time they get re-educated on the Constitution.

      • John December 18, 2020, 12:48 pm

        at the same time re educate your self on what a pistol and a rifles is.

        • Dave Emery December 18, 2020, 6:23 pm

          Re educate yourself about what a militia needs. Military weapons. “Shall not infringe”

    • George December 18, 2020, 7:23 am

      The New Tyrant isn’t in Office Yet…

      • Rusty December 18, 2020, 12:01 pm

        You are right, we are still operating under the old tyrant!!

        Remember the TRUMPSTOCK!!!!

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