Q’s NEW 8.6 BLK

Ammo Tests Gun Reviews Ivan Loomis Rifles
Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

The Q Mini Fix in 300 Blackout above the Q Fix in 8.6 BLK.

On June 15, 2021, Q made an announcement on their Instagram account saying, “If you weren’t aware already, 8.6 BLK is coming to town and it’s gonna change the game.” Luckily we already know what 8.6 BLK is because we actually covered it back in 2018 when Q was hoping that Hornady would adopt it and call it the 8.6 Creedmoor. Check out the article below from 2018. The only real difference is going to be the name. It appears as though Q is going to be moving forward with the name 8.6 Blackout or 8.6 BLK rather than 8.6 Creedmoor.

Tell us in the comments if you think this is going to be a must-have cartridge or a huge miss.

What the hell is 8.6 Creedmoor?

It’s the .338 Federal, right? No. Similar, but no. Let’s start with where it is similar: It shoots a .338 projectile, or 8.6mm if you like. Past that, not much.

Taking a quick little look from 30,000 feet…  

8.6 Creedmoor, if you’ve never heard of it, is a joint effort between Q (an innovative company making products from silencers, to the Honey Badger in 300 Blackout, as well as their completely reimagined bolt action rifle, The Fix) and Hornady (the massive ammunition manufacturer). Additionally, because of Q’s ties with Noveske (a high-end rifle manufacturer), they’ve barreled a Noveske pistol in 8.6 Creedmoor to test reliability and function in gas guns.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

Q’s Lineup: From top to bottom The Fix in 8.6 Creedmoor, The Mini Fix in 300 Blackout, the Honey Badger in 300 Blackout.

Let’s look at how the cartridge is made. Rather than starting with something like a .308, the way the .338 Federal does, we start with a 6.5 Creedmoor. We then cut the case down and neck it up. Is that confusing? It took me a minute to wrap my head around it too. Here is why it is done though…

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

It comes down to science, math, and magic.

The case length of the .338 Federal is 2.015” where the 8.6 Creedmoor case is 1.685” in length.  Why does this matter? Well, if you want the ability to run heavy subsonic loads, 280 to 360+ grains, the longer 338 Federal case will put the ogive of the projectile back inside the case.  This is bad, your bullet will not perform.

On top of that, while starting with that “smaller” case capacity, it offers more consistent ignition. Especially with those heavy subsonic loads, in turn, giving you better performance shot to shot.

Due to the cartridge length, 8.6 Creedmoor will feed out of .308 Winchester magazines.  What does this mean? It will fit all of your magazines. Be they SR-25 patterned, AR10, Accuracy International, or even the magazine on your TIKKA rifle.  And, here is where it is pretty magical since the cartridge uses the same bolt face as a .308, it is just a matter of swapping barrels.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

A Noveske AR10 pistol re-barreled with an 8.6 Creedmoor barrel by Q for testing.

And speaking of barrels, all of the .338 Federal data for SAMMI is collected from a 24” barrel with a 1/10 twist. Nope, hard pass. A 1/10 barrel can never stabilize heavy subsonic rounds. The twist rate is too slow, the same problem that plagues subsonic 308 / 7.62 NATO.  That slow of a twist rate will fire heavy bullets, but without the stabilization of a faster twist rate, they won’t be accurate at all.

The 8.6 Creedmoor is being designed around a fast barrel twist. Q is still kicking around prototypes anywhere from 1/3 twist to 1/5. The 1/3 does an amazing job of stabilizing big heavy bullets and providing the shooter with good accuracy. It also performs well with light supersonic loads depending on the bullet type. Poorly made bullets will twist apart in flight. So, Q is finding the sweet spot with respect to heavy and light .338 projectiles.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

From left to right: .300 Blackout, expanded .300 Blackout over an expanded .338 projectile, 8.6 Creedmoor dummy rounds.

As to barrel length and the 24” 338 Federal… Again, no. The 8.6 Creedmoor is designed around a short barrel. About 12.5” to be exact. Why? Because it sucks dragging a 24” barreled firearm through the woods, a doorway, the trunk of a car, or pretty much any other space you can think of—let alone if you want to thread a silencer onto said barrel. So, the 8.6 Creedmoor is being optimized for a short barrel.

Does this mean you will have to pay a $200 tax to the NFA for a short barreled rifle? Yes, or you can purchase a pistol. SB Tactical makes some amazing pistol braces which can greatly increase one’s ability to use a pistol if needed. Q will be releasing their Fix Rifle as a 12.5” barreled 8.6 Creedmoor pistol, utilizing an SB Tactical folding pistol brace when the round becomes available.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

12.5” barrel Noveske 8.6 Creedmoor pistol with Q silencer and SB Tactical pistol brace. Small and capable.

And speaking of availability, Hornady is leading the charge. In recent years they have done an amazing job bringing some great high-quality cartridges to market. As a result, you will probably end up with easy access and availability to the 8.6 Creedmoor cartridge.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

A number of different test loads for the 8.6 Creedmoor.

We probably could have started this whole article with the question of “Why?” Why bother with 8.6 Creedmoor? That is a fair question. And the answer is because it provides an amazing melding of supersonic and subsonic performance for the .308 platform. If it helps, think of it as .300 Blackout’s big brother. We are taking a cartridge, cutting it down and putting a larger projectile into it, and optimizing it for a shorter barrel. That gives us better super and subsonic performance out to a moderate range than was previously available.

Now I guess you’re wondering if it does in fact perform. I’d say so, out of a 12.5” barrel the 8.6 Creedmoor with a 155GR bullet at 2500FPS brings 2,100 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle. With supersonic loads, it will outperform a 18” barreled .308 Winchester out to 300 yards.

Using 300+ grain expanding subsonic loads, the 8.6 Creedmoor generates 650+ ft. lbs. at the muzzle and is still maintaining 550 ft. lbs. out at 600 yards.  For reference, that is more energy than a 45ACP at the muzzle…

Bolt action or semi-automatic?  Yes. The 8.6 Creedmoor performs equally well out of a bolt action rifle as it does out of a gas gun.  I’ve shot the 8.6 Creedmoor out of a Fix Rifle as well as a Noveske AR10 Pistol. The 8.6 Creedmoor had no issues cycling the Noveske or locking back on an empty magazine while shooting supersonic and subsonic rounds.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

Both the bolt action Fix by Q and DI gas gun by Noveske worked great for me.

Is the 8.6 Creedmoor quiet when running it through a silencer? Absolutely. Like with any supersonic round, you will have the associated crack while firing the round. But the real magic is in the subsonic loads. Out of a bolt action, it is about the same report as a .22 LR suppressed. That’s ridiculously quiet considering the projectile you’re sending down range. Subsonic rounds through the gas gun are quiet, but suffer the same as any other round. You have a fair bit of noise coming from the ejection port and the cycling of the gun. But it is still quite pleasant to shoot.

Again, circling back to the why. While some of my friends have dropped large game, including elk, with shots at over 1,100 yards, that’s not the norm. If you have the capability, good on you. Most hunters lack not only that skill to take an ethical shot at that range, but frankly the opportunity. Most game is taken anywhere from 50 to 250-300 yards. By way of example, the elk I shot last year was just over 100 yards away. Just about the maximum distance I could have shot. Why? Because up in the part of Idaho where I live the only shots you get are in clear cuts. In the trees, a deer or elk could be 20 yards away and you’d be hard pressed to see one, let alone get a shot.

Not to mention who wants to walk through the woods with a 24” barreled rifle?  How about a suppressed 24” barrel so you don’t end up with permanent hearing loss? Nope. The 8.6 Creedmoor will allow a shooter to carry around a much smaller and lighter weapon system. How about a 12.5” barreled Fix with a folding pistol brace? Climbing up to a tree stand, crossing a stream, hiking into the mountains? All the performance needed by most sportsman in a nice compact package.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

The Q Mini Fix in 300 Blackout above the Q Fix in 8.6 Creedmoor.

Is this the perfect cartridge?  No. Is it the perfect cartridge for supersonic and subsonic performance out to medium ranges with a short barrel, the ability to run in bolt actions and semi-autos, feeding out of standard .308 magazines, with the option to run it with silencers for incredibly quiet supersonic performance?  Yes, it absolutely is.

Will the 8.6 Creedmoor be called 8.6 Creedmoor?  Possibly, but who knows. It may end up as the .338 Creedmoor, .338 Blackout, 8.6 Blackout… Time will tell.

Q's NEW 8.6 BLK

Test rounds in Hornady made cases stamped 338 Creedmoor.

I guess the last question is, when can you buy one? Probably in 2019. Hornady and Q are working to finalize the cartridge as well as the optimized barrel (twist rate, length, etc.). Those should be wrapped up in 2019 so that the 8.6 Creedmoor can get put into production. Personally, I’m really looking forward to this cartridge.

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  • Gunnut December 31, 2022, 11:49 am

    This is a very good assessment article of the cartridges charteristics. The 8.6blk/CM/whatever you want to call it, is definitely a niche cartridge. Yes, it would perform well as a specialty combat cartridge, much like the 300AAC/BLK. As for hunting with it, there is a lot of views and personal perspectives that are interjected into what makes a ideal hunting cartridge. Such as a minimum of 1200 ft lb impact energy for ethical harvesting. Another aspect to consider is the point blank range. The trajectory of subs is close to lobbing artillery. I believe for hunting the 375 raptor would perform better, heck the 45/70 with pistol powder and 600gr bullets would also perform in short barrels for subs while maintaining a similar trajectory.
    Maybe instead of offering boutique cartridge/chamberings, offer specialty barrels with engineered twist ratios to
    custom load offerings, along with the custom load offerings. Like a 308win barrel with a 1-7 twist and factory 220gr subsonics loads designed for controlled expansion…

  • David September 17, 2022, 12:55 pm

    The “only” reason to get an 8.6 Blackout (338 Creedmore) is because it is the “best performing” Subsonic cartridge out of a short barrel, other than that it is no use getting it. Also with a Subsonic cartridge the 8.6 Blackout does “not” have enough Muzzle Energy (ME) to kill a Deer, about 1/2 the ME needed to kill a deer at 50 yards.!! But if you go to a more recoil & louder Supersonic 8.6 Blackout cartridge for hunting Deer (or Elk or Moose) then you might as well “buy a 338 Federal or 35 Whelan instead for better performance ballistics (more Energy & Velocity)”.
    ~So the conclusion is if you want the best of both worlds of Subsonic & Supersonic then yes please do buy the 8.6 Blackout. Also if you are into using only Subsonic then yes please do buy the 8.6 Blackout. But if you have no use for Subsonic and only shoot Supersonic then do not buy it.

  • Jan Bostrom June 6, 2022, 2:37 pm

    8.6 cm! Lol. That’s more than 3 inches!

  • 1911rocks April 26, 2022, 10:11 am

    It woud be cool if they just upped this to 9mm using an available case…..like a 7.62×39….OH WAIT there is a 9 x 39……..So, will Hornady have the insight to submit this to SAAMI? I see this as the next iteration of “what was the question?” answers….

  • Maceo March 13, 2022, 10:26 pm

    The questions on the purpose of this round are misplaced. This is a battle round, which can be used as a hunting round. Small package, novel use of energy distribution, short barrel, accurate subsonic up to 350 meters while whisper quiet changes combat.

  • Sean McLawless February 26, 2022, 9:57 am

    To me, it largely extends the range of the 300Blkout with better terminal ballistics, MOA accuracy, 300 yards, 22 quiet when suppressed, is there another bullet out there that does all those things? IF they deliver on these things, I think that’s pretty cool, it would make a good hog gun. If the bullets do what they say they do, I don’t know you would want to use it to collect game meat.

  • Ronald Jones January 26, 2022, 2:46 pm

    The Creedmoors at least make sense as target rounds, I don’t get this thing at all. If you want to use VLD bullets, buy a longer receiver. I will never understnd how they advertise the Creedmoor rounds as surpassing the 308 based cartridges when there is less space in the boiler room.

    One thing is for certain, this is NOT a Cape Buffalo round, especially out of a pistol, and the individuals who did that are irresponsible.

  • Ronald Jones January 26, 2022, 1:54 pm

    The Creedmoors at least make sense as target rounds, I don’t get this thing at all. If you want to use VLD bullets, buy a longer receiver. I will never understnd how they advertise the Creedmoor rounds as surpassing the 308 based cartridges when there is less space in the boiler room.

    One thing s for certain, this is NOT a Cape Buffalo round, especially out of a pistol, and the individuals who did that are irresponsible.

  • LHTwist January 7, 2022, 6:12 pm

    I’m not sure what problem this cartridge hopes to resolve nor what goals are expected but it sounds like more trouble than it’s worth. Of course the barrel retailers must be ecstatic about another sales opportunity, them and ammo manufacturers, but who else could be excited about such a cludge? Odd that the “Creedmoor” label has been attached to yet another project that truly “needs more”. Other than the original spirt, that tags has a legacy of falling short, if you’ll excuse the pun.

  • John Hoglin July 11, 2021, 2:30 am

    It looks like an answer in search of a question. But no one has any idea of what that question is.

  • Randy June 28, 2021, 11:45 pm

    How will this perform in a 16” barrel? Here in Hawaii we’re not allowed to own “assault pistols” (not my choice of name for a pistol) so we’d have to go with 16” minimum.

    • Ryan McMorrow October 15, 2021, 10:09 am

      Can’t be worse, you’ll get better muzzle velocity

  • Gordon Schmidt June 28, 2021, 11:34 am

    Post Script ~ its interesting to think of 8.6BLK performance considering performance of the 9×39 Russian cartridge. I’d like to see a side by side comparison. That comparison should recognize that the 8.6 would be in an AR10 while the 9×39 would be (well, could be) in an AR15. Results/conclusion s (oh, all right, opinions) would depend on the intended use; supersonic or subsonic.

  • Gordon Schmidt June 28, 2021, 11:17 am

    Interesting. . . . Lots of opinions which are definitely worth what they cost. Ref.: Comment on 7.92 Kurz (7.92×33 I believe); that round used a light bullet (123gran?) and was intended for “Spray and Pray” use (my opinion.). The 8.6Blk, is interesting but for me would work best in the Pachmayr Dominator 1911 conversion I have. . . . . 210 or 220 grain partition bullets would be nice hunting rounds. Alternately, and with some reservation, it would be a good Encore round (my opinion) especially if it had a rim. Rejoice and enjoy creatively, its part fo the fun and occasionally provides something useful (for someone.)

    • Ryan McMorrow October 15, 2021, 10:10 am

      Kevin has said the goal is to keep it close to the cost of 6.5 creedmore, about $1 a round

  • glock19fan June 28, 2021, 9:22 am

    Interesting! How would it compare with the German 7.92 Kutz that the Germans used in their StG44 (except for a slight difference in bullet diameter)? Just askin’.

  • J. Smith June 28, 2021, 9:15 am

    Reinventing what J.D. Jones already did. Brilliant. They should steal another cartridge he developed just like AAC did his 300 whisper. Oh, and its now mid-2021 this was written circa 2019 and i have never seen this cartridge for sale. Maybe cause of the china flu plandemic. When 300 bo is going for $2-3 a round i dont see this becoming popular at todays ammo prices. But, there is the 350 legend that penetrates as well as a 308, and suppressed fires a 255g jhp with 600+ ft lbs of energy from an ar-15 platform. Yeah that round fits a niche.

  • survivor50 June 28, 2021, 8:35 am

    I’m having a hard time believing this is touted for HUNTING … OK, OK, you can buy it then… OK by me !
    BTW… what was the price ? I missed that… and the Ammo ???

    Meanwhile I’ll lug my trusty 1952 bolt action .308 around… It’s still good to 600 yards… guaranteed… no need to recalculate the ballistics at this point in life… it’s ” Settled Science ” !

    Spec Ops… I think the Boys In The Band might like something more conventional… Form Follows Function … your mileage may vary…

    • glock19fan June 28, 2021, 9:31 am

      I have a .30-06 so haven’t used a .308. I did have a .243 that I planned to use in PA but they changed the caliber requirement to.25 minimum. Ah fiddlesticks!

    • Ryan McMorrow October 15, 2021, 10:11 am

      The most boomer comment i’ve seen today

  • jack June 28, 2021, 7:01 am

    This might be a useful cartridge for the spec-ops units but I see no use of it for practical hunting but I suppose Hornady and gun makers will flood the industry with an another advertising campaign chanting how great this thing is just like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Funny, the most “for sale” guns on internet gun sites are 6.5 Creedmoor’s, what does that tell you?

  • American July 9, 2020, 6:13 pm

    Most guys hating on this probably don’t enjoy suppressed 300blk shooting so they just don’t understand.
    New things are good, 6.5cm is great, yeah 260rem has been doing the same thing for some time but ya can’t load nearly as long a bullet it needs for its max potential performance In an ar10 /lr308 , where 6.5 cm can get great long range perf. In the very popular LR308 platform . So why hate on hornady for putting out cartridges like this?
    8.6creedmoor sounds like a great idea to me as I love the 300blk, I love subguns, the 300 to me is a close range silent bada$$ with more rifle capabilities, does the job of an mp5 AND an ak47 in one unit.. extreme long range precision is not it’s job.
    Nor is the 8.6cm, but much like 300blk it’s great for everything in between. I don’t understand what’s not to like?
    Do we need a mall ninja assault rifle ? Of course not
    Do you need the 10 other guns in your safe, a classic car, a nicer house or to keep you lawn looking great, absolutely not but ya got some of those or so many other things we know damn well we don’t need so why is this cartridge so horrible when all you need is a barrel to have fun with it?
    It’s not supposed to be a 800yd tack driver , but to be tons of fun shooting *quietly* suppressed , can kill anything on the continent, and retain plenty of energy out as far down range as a 223 ar is good for or more, hurling a 150-200 grain slug down range at 2500FPS out of a 12″ barrel is some pretty awesome firepower in a handy little package. Not too unwieldy with a can attached , I love shooting 300 blackout so I know this will be great
    I just don’t understand why trash this and us who will buy it, I realize you may prefer long range precision and prefer a tool perfect for that role but don’t act like you don’t own things you don’t “need”. Companies innovating and providing new and different things is what’s kept this hobby alive all these years and things like this help keep newcomers joining our lifestyle. And if we don’t stick together these leftwing tyrants will take it all away from us.

    Sorry for the rant but you got me at mall ninjas!!
    If there were only a few enthusiasts with a couple guns here and there they’d have already taken them away. You mall ninjas keep collecting, keep the industry and our way of life alive and strong.
    6.8 blackout is a great idea, keep em coming

    • Kelly Lee June 28, 2021, 12:03 pm

      Support your local mall ninja! Yup, good rant and I agree with ya. I’m literally one of those guys that has downsized to only one carbine length AR and my subcompact carry piece but still like seeing the new stuff being developed and released on the market. Plus, I have plenty of those things I don’t need like four classic cars, two dirt bikes, and three bass guitars but I still love playing with them! 🙂

  • Derek Durbin January 30, 2020, 11:38 am

    I remember when they said 300 blackout was a designer cartridge and it would never last and now look at it. I think (owning a Q HoneybadgerSD and a Fix in 308) Q did exactly what they needed to do as a company go with a bigger round, give the shooter the ability to retain their accumulated 308 magazines and give versatility to DI or bolt action. I hope they name it 8.6 blackout. Great job with the article Q isn’t going anywhere with their innovation and attention to detail they put in their products. If you can’t afford it don’t bash them you’re hurting our 2A community in a time we need to come together because a guarantee if you had their product in your hands and got some trigger time with it and they said you could have it you’d take it in a heartbeat. They’re a great company and Kevin Brittingham (owner of Q) is among many things a shooter, and that’s who you want innovating and imagining new products. -DDD

  • Chris September 18, 2019, 7:25 pm

    I’m just mad because they skipped right over 7.62 Creedmoor.🤪

    • Nikolas De vries October 2, 2019, 9:55 pm

      .300 aac

  • Stephen October 30, 2018, 12:22 am

    What a bunch of complaining ninnies. Ok, fine, you guys don’t get one. I’ll get one. it looks great. Geeze. Whiny geezers kill so many good products because EVERY new cartridge or platform is just “a solution looking for a problem”… no, this is a VERY practical idea. Lets look at the problems:
    1)- small packages have power problems except shotguns. but shotguns have speed and capacity and range problems.
    2)- rifles are more versatile, but they’re long, hard to pack, a lot of weight goes into the barrel unless you settle for whispy barrels with inferior harmonics/heat management. And the powerful/hunting type autos are WAY too loud in short agile packages.
    3)- for home defense, an auto has advantages over shotguns, more capacity, better armor pen, easier to reload fast in a pinch. But smaller autos have less “instant” incapacitation power than a shotgun. a short action battle rifle type gun VERY effective for home defense except: it’s instant deafness, and sometimes you get bad overpens in the home. But regardless, if you get an SBR, you lose too much power, gain too much noise.
    4)- a lot of people love suppressing their guns. But the suppressed 300 blk has low stopping power. This increases that significantly. And more importantly, you can use large bullets at supersonic speeds that burn in a shorter barrel. That means you can use a more agile “battle rifle” type system, and not go horribly deaf, and still get good performance in a short barrel.
    5)- the alternative is a bullpup, but you still get a lot of noise, and controls and safety are somewhat reduced. If it’s just defense, I’m sure an RFB would be fine, but the accuracy isn’t where it should be.
    6)- the AR15 has become america’s rifle, but the really powerful rounds have 1/3 the capacity and half of the range. The compromise rounds are great, but just haven’t caught on, and the limited envelope/utility of each means each does only really 1 thing well. 300 blk suppresses, but not good range, grendel has great range, but terminal is reduced vs 6.8 and it isn’t as good in short barrels like you’d use in defense or in a brush gun. 6.8 is very versatile, but you just can’t get the full range you can with the grendel. 5.56 is still wonderful, but it’s less useful in the brush or on many animals.

    Stepping up to a full power short action solves a LOT of the AR15 limitations. The weight increases can be overcome in a few ways, like an AR10 pistol, or advanced materials. But using a pistol/sbr means loss of performance and massive increase in noise/blast. 308 has historically been bad to suppress and still run an action. The alternatives are great 1 trick ponies but also don’t SBR well or run suppressed.

    lets look at how this weapon system can resolve these problems:
    you get full power, less size and weight, less blast, use of suppressors super and sub and runs the action. You get full power in a short barrel that is stable, accurate and has more effective range than 300 blk and can take larger game. Capacity is still good, unlike the big bore ar15s. So you can get shotgun like stopping power in the home without losing your ears, still get to use a size small enough for corners or light/small enough for hiking/brush, but still get enough power for dangerous animal defense (unlike most 15s), still get to use standard mags, good tapered rounds for feeding, standard parts and boltface. etc. and if you can get lightweight long ogive palma style bullets made of lighter materials, like a copper hollow point made just right, you might get 400-500 yard range to boot. Note: the Grendel could shoot out past 1000, but due to power levels, it wasn’t advisable to drop medium to large game past 450 yards or so due to dropping below bullet expanding speeds and loss of sufficient killing power for humane reliable kills. This is even true for a lot of 308 designs… maybe 4-500 yards is the top limit for good hunting bullets, especially in shorter hikable barrels.
    If good bullet designs can keep the supers going to 1800 fps past 400 yards, with at least 800+ ft lbs for improved on target terminal performance, now you’re talking about a rifle that really can do it all except long range target shooting, except in the subsonic divisions… and do it all in an AR pistol or little ultralight pack gun, like a modified socom 16, or an itty bitty bolt gun.
    That’s not a solution in search of a problem. It’s a solution to many problems we’ve just learned to ignore or deal with in other ways.
    It’s ok to evolve. Sometimes the change can be good.

    • Likydsplit January 12, 2019, 7:15 pm

      Excellent comment. This .338/8.6mm may be the “best” combat cartridge to come along, ever.

    • John April 4, 2019, 2:00 am

      When do you think people will need rapid reloads for home defense? Who needs a suppressed SBR subsonic hunting or home defense gun? If they need such a thing realistically the people invading their home would likely be LEO’s or Military in body armor that a heavy subsonic would not defeat. We normally do not see home invasions with enough criminals invading at one time that you would need rapid reloads on a 20-30 round magazine. There is no cartridge that is effective at rapidly incapacitating a human being and also not prone to over penetrate in a residential setting! For civilians and 99.9% of Armed Forces this cartridge is a solution looking for a problem! For hunting there are already much better cartridges on the market that have been on the market 50-150 years. The idea of a hunter needing a heavy subsonic 12.5 inch barreled suppressed rifle and cartridge as the best solution to any hunting problem is comical!

      • Ryan McMorrow October 15, 2021, 10:51 am

        Yeah but its cool dude

  • MojoMitch September 25, 2018, 9:33 pm

    I’m w/Jack, Jake and Al and then some more.
    I’m really surprised that “Hornady” is standing behind this cartridge..
    I’m not getting anything new or that hasn’t been done better out of it, imo.
    I’m all for innovation, but I’m not onboard this ship.

    • John April 4, 2019, 2:06 am

      Hornady has been doing lots of less than wise things chasing $$$$. It is obvious what they are doing just look at the 6.5CM, 6CM, and the PRC line of cartridges. None of them do anything that has not already been done before in cartridges that have better availability of both loaded ammo and brass. They have not done anything worth while outside of selling more brass and rifles with another cartridge that is a solution looking for a problem! So you either have ignorance, incompetence, liars, or psychopathic CEO calling the shots take your pick!?!?! They so narrowly frame the conversation as to be telling “lies of omission” when making performance claims in short action rifles with their factory ammo in the real world. They have not brough any new technology, materials, or design idea’s to the table.

      • Andy September 27, 2019, 12:22 pm

        They are making money!
        Which is the point

      • Benp November 16, 2019, 11:26 pm

        Huh? 6.5cm is exceptionally popular and absolutely is a great new cartridge. It fires from almost any 308 platform with only a barrel change and feeds perfectly in the 308 magazines, yet has much better BC and so outperforms 308 in the vast majority of situations. Plus its lighter and has less recoil. The military is considering using it. 300blk is another excellent design. It took the 300 wisper and standardized it. It was designed to allow higher performance subsonic shooting in a mp5 sized package and that it does extremely well. In a pinch it can produce 762×39 level performance with supersonics.

        This wont donas well simply because so few of us have 338 sized suppressors and if i bought one id want it to work on a 338 lapua which would make it heavy and negate some of the positives of this cartridge. But a non wildcat standardized 338 sized subsonic is a cool idea. I hope it sells well.

        If you dont like it fine, no ones making you stop using your 270 or 7mm or 6.5×47 or whatever floats your boat.

  • jack September 11, 2018, 7:08 am

    The only use I can see for this cartridge is for more penetration, like if the FBI/DEA/CIA/ICE/soldier had a perp trapped behind three walls in a home and couldn’t get in any closer for a kill shot this round might bust thru 3-4 plywood/sheet rock walls to get to them.

  • Kurt September 10, 2018, 10:21 pm

    Meh. Given that part of the justification is hunting, this is a fail. A number of states require a revolver, so that eliminates this, and when used in a rifle, it should be designed around a 16″ barrel given that $200, a 6-8 month wait, plus a fee to engrave the receiver for what is really probably only ever going to be a minor boutique round is a bit much to accept. I agree with the poster who suggested .375 as if the goal is delivering a high mass subsonic payload, that would do a much better job. Finally, in regards to the 300 meter comment vis-a-vis the .308, you are going to have some insane amount of drop…last I checked my resume, I never qualified on field artillery…

  • Al September 10, 2018, 9:42 pm

    The gas version in a piston operated, suppressed 12.5″ bbl with 155gr solid copper or steel core WOULD be a nice tactical package for SWAT/Tac Teams facing body armored suspects or suspects behind cover or shooting from 32 stories up at you. I see potential as an armor (plate/lvl 3a/4)defeating short barreled/compact weapon system.
    I believe this high tactical value is the main reason this exists.

  • ECCO Machine September 10, 2018, 5:39 pm

    8.6 is a stupid name, and .338 cal was a poor choice for more than one reason. .375 caliber would offer all the upsides without the detractors, bullets ranging from thin jacketed 200 gr. critters that will actually expand at the velocities of a shortened .308 case all the way up to 377 gr match bullets that beat any .338 cal in weight, SD & B.C.

  • Andrew September 10, 2018, 3:02 pm

    With the 375 Raptor and the 45 Raptor, not that i own or am advertising for them, why a new cartridge? They are both more powerful that this one and whose pieces and parts already exist.

  • Weeks Tim September 10, 2018, 1:30 pm

    Isn’t this the ballistic equivalent of JD Jones’ 338

  • Bob Saad September 10, 2018, 1:15 pm

    I’m 88 yrs old , have hunted for 80 of them. I can’t believe I never needed an 8.6 creedemoor. You learn something new every day!

  • Jake September 10, 2018, 12:20 pm

    Why doesn’t somebody just put a suppressor on an 1895 Marlin 45-70/.450 magnum? That will give you all the weight you could ever want in a bullet. All this short barrel crap with “pistol braces” etc. is just stupid. It makes for a great article for handgun hunting but for a weapon where people might be shooting back at you I’ll pass.

    • Michael September 11, 2018, 2:15 am

      “Pistol brace” is what they have to call it to get around ATFE because if they called it a stock it then becomes a rifle and a whole new set of rules and regulations from the feds. It works like a rifle but weighs like a oversized pistol. A fully set up 8.6 is about half the weight and length of a Marlin 1895. Add the suppressor and it’s still less to lug around.

    • rjb October 11, 2018, 9:56 am

      Jake, I am sure there are things you like that other people don’t ? Short barrels perform and pistol braces are a way to eliminate paying for a Tax Stamp and also work well…not stupid at all….your comments just show a lack of realizing your opinion is not going to be taken as meaningful by anybody….

  • Andre Smith September 10, 2018, 11:49 am

    I’m a big supporter of the second amendment. However, this is just BS. This is just another way to try and sell more rifles and components. Now you have to run out and buy components for 8.6. 6.5 wasn’t enough. I guess you have to give consumers reason to buy. This is just silly.

    • Alan Robinson September 10, 2018, 4:14 pm

      Welcome to the Free Enterprise system. Took ya awhile to get here, eh?

    • Michael September 11, 2018, 2:17 am

      You have to buy a barrel. That’s all. Or buy a whole new gun if you don’t have an AR-10.

  • James September 10, 2018, 10:26 am

    What I didn’t get from the article is the intended purpose of the cartridge. Is this a Long Range Precision, Intermediate Combat, CQB or another do it all cartridge?

    • Stephen October 31, 2018, 2:07 am

      I don’t see what’s so confusing. It’s a scaled up 300 blk with more power/range/weight in an AR10 or short action instead of an AR15 or small/light action.
      330 gr subs instead of 220 gr. 300 yard range instead of 200 (at least that’s in theory, with the right designs it should be able to reach out to 400 with supers). SInce i’ts got a shorter case and uses less bulky powder, that usually means suboptimal for long barrels, but very efficient in short ones, less blast, etc. Just like the 300 blk.

      Think 338 federal, but efficient in an SBR with larger pills and a little less gas. Think AR10 SBR or itty bitty bolt guns, or bolt pistols. Think braced AR10 pistol. This is usually a HORRIBLE idea due to blast, but with a grown up 300 blk like this, it means less blast in a smaller package due to where the burn peak is, but you’re still getting 308 power.

      It also uses standard magazines, standard bolts, standard components (once the reemers and dies come out). It’s also backed by Hornady, so it’ll be cheap from day one and won’t fizzle out just because it’s not on fire after just 1 year.

      I think it’s a PHENOMENAL idea. For the life of me, I can’t figure if it’s better than if they’d done an 8mm blk instead, basically get more speed and range for a loss in sub weight, but with dedicated 8mm bullet designs for the task it could get close, like 280s, all the while reaching out to 400+ yards with supers due to being thinner.
      Or conversely, really dedicating themselves to the 300 blk concept and going 375 instead of 338. Arni has done wonders with the 375 Raptor, but making the case a little shorter might give up a little bit of that magnum force he’s going for and instead really push those 400 gr pills. But hey… those are both so much more niche I don’t know how well it’d fly, especially with so fewer components out there. 338 has loads of components already. It’s good to go, and with a little bit of experimentation might do just fine in all the roles listed.

      Straight o your point these are the stated goals these guys have said here and elsewhere:
      short barrel performance
      good suppressor performance in gas guns (runs the action)
      brush gun performance in autos with packable, mobile guns.
      mid to short range hunting.

      • John April 4, 2019, 2:20 am

        It is a terrible compromise that makes it terrible for anything not “Mall Ninja” related.

        Hunting and home defense with a 12.5 inch suppressed barrel 1:3 twist subsonic super heavy bullet?

        Really need to reload after 10, 20 or 30 rounds in home defense or hunting with the above?Really? You know real life is not like what is depicted in video games and movies?!?!

        I can think of about 10 different cartridges that have been around 50-150 years that would be far better for hunting in the real world or home defense.

        The AR15 and AR10 are horrible designs if you want to have fantastic cartridges and variety. Too many compromises and not enough return on those compromises. If you want a lot of variety and great cartridge performance stop limiting your actions to AR platforms and short action bolt guns. There is no advantage to short action only limitations!

        • Beedle January 24, 2022, 11:04 am

          Lol? AR’s are horrible designs? What are you smoking?

  • Dick fraser September 10, 2018, 9:59 am

    Hello, I enjoy reading your digest. With all the collectible ammo on your site I suggest you do an article on the International Ammunition Association and the joys of ammo research and collecting. Dick

  • DANIEL NELSON September 10, 2018, 9:40 am

    The 300 savage necked up to 338, the 8.6 creedmoor has less body taper. Does it fill a need?

  • CARY KIEFFER September 10, 2018, 8:27 am

    “Using 300+ grain expanding subsonic loads, the 8.6 Creedmoor generates 650+ ft. lbs. at the muzzle and is still maintaining 550 ft. lbs. out at 600 yards.  For reference, that is more energy than a 45ACP at the muzzle…”

    I just cut/paste this out of your article. This doesn’t make sense to me…am I missing something or is there a typo or 2 here? Its early…I’m still on first cup of coffee. 😉 but it seems like you’d need a mortar crew to hit with a subsonic 300 grain bullet at 600 yards…and it only looses 100 ft lbs of energy? Please help me understand this. Thanks.

    • Jes September 10, 2018, 10:13 am

      I did a calculation on StrelokPro with a HPBT MK, 300.0 gr., Sierra bullet (.338) at 1000fps. In a 1/3 inch twist barrel. The energy loss is very minimal at 300 yards yes but the vertical corrrection is 108 inches

      • Jes September 10, 2018, 10:15 am

        Whoops with a 600 yards shot the vertical correction is 573 inches

        • CARY KIEFFER September 10, 2018, 11:44 am

          Yep, I used a different calculator but was within about 2 inches of drop at 600 as well. You’re right it seems to fly pretty good out to 250-300. So it would out range my 458 Socoms which drop like rocks with 600 grain subs….new cartridges always interest me to learn something but I’m not sure this is what I was saving my 308 stripped receiver set and rail for. Good article though.

    • CARY KIEFFER September 10, 2018, 10:19 am

      Ok, well I finished that coffee and ran some numbers…I guess it could be in the ballpark if the BC is high enough but it would have to be higher than a .338 300 gr SMK @ .768. Do you have a number for the BC of this bullet yet?

    • Likydsplit January 12, 2019, 7:32 pm

      I believe his intent was to demonstrate the surprising energy retention of the projectile (presumably from is weight/mass instead of velocity). Not to imply the round is appropriate for 600yd precision shooting.

      The rounds real value is in its military application, not civilian.
      Imagine a weapon system that is more lethal in supersonic mode than the M4 carbine, AND more lethal than a .45acp in suppressed/subsonic mode.

      One weapon system (with say a 12inch suppressed barrel) that can serve as a primary infantry weapon or a CQB spec-ops weapon simple by changing the ammo.

  • charles September 10, 2018, 5:05 am

    Another useless cartridge to try to convince John Q. Public, to buy.

    • mtman2 September 10, 2018, 10:58 am

      II’ll stick to my good ol’ Swede;
      for all aound purposes…

      • glock19fan June 28, 2021, 9:41 am

        Another nice piece. I once had a Swede carbine at the time that the law required 18″ minimum barrel length. For 3/8″ of an inch ATF nullified the collector value and – since ammo wasn’t easy to find – I sold it. The barrels were shrink fitted with a short sleeve to bring it to length because they allowed no exceptions to the 18″ requirement.

    • rjb October 11, 2018, 10:00 am

      Useless to you is meaningless to a lot of other people who will have use for it….gotta love people who think the opinion they have means anything…

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