The Guns of Ruby Ridge: America Teeters at the Precipice

In the summer of 1992, a violent confrontation between Randy Weaver and federal Law Enforcement agencies led to three needless deaths and an 11-day standoff. The repercussions of this horrible event still resonate today.

The very mention of Ruby Ridge still elicits powerful emotions. In 1992 with a Republican in the White House, the full might of the US government was unleashed on an American citizen and his family. I’ll not debate the man’s politics or the righteousness of the investigation. What is indisputable, however, is that a 14-year-old boy, an unarmed mother holding an infant, and a US Marshal died violently in a miserably botched Law Enforcement operation.

Right-wing sources paint government agents as psychopathic thugs. Left-wing sources say Weaver and his family deserved what they got. Studying both testified to the remarkably fractured nature of modern American society.

Researching this tale was tough. Facts from sources I should be able to trust were in overt conflict with those of other sources I should also be able to trust. Where the details are incongruous I’ll try to stay neutral.

The Man

Randy Weaver became an icon for the American Far Right. His showdown with federal authorities marked the birth of the modern American militia movement.

Randy Weaver was born in 1948 to Clarence and Wilma Weaver of Villisca, Iowa. He had three siblings. Randy was raised a theological fundamentalist yet eventually became a self-described atheist. In October of 1968 at age 20 Weaver dropped out of community college and enlisted in the Army.

Weaver’s Special Forces affiliation gave rise to his reputed persona as a grizzled survivalist lurking in the mountains waiting to take on the feds. The reality was markedly different.

Some sources I read described Weaver as a hardened Green Beret in the mold of John Rambo. Others said he was trained as a Combat Engineer and assigned to a Special Forces unit but not a graduate of the Special Warfare Center and School. Regardless, he served on active duty for three years and was honorably discharged.

Randy and Vicki Weaver were simple people whose distrust of government and quest for solitude resulted in a horribly pointless tragedy.

For a time afterward, Weaver studied Criminal Justice at the University of Northern Iowa. Ironically his stated goal was to become an FBI agent. He dropped out of school when he could no longer afford tuition.

Apparently, the Weaver home was warm and loving in the months leading up to the showdown.

In 1992 Weaver lived on his rural 20-acre Idaho property with his wife Vicki, Sara age 16, Sammy age 14, Rachel age 10, and 10-month-old daughter Elisheba along with an adult friend named Kevin Harris. The Weavers have been alternately described as white supremacists, white separatists, religious fundamentalists, or just nice simple folks wanting to be left alone. In retrospect, none of that matters.

The Crime

Weaver sold a single barrel H&R shotgun along with a Remington 870 to a supposed friend for $300.

The US government was actively attempting to infiltrate white nationalist groups in the area using a series of undercover informants. Randy Weaver sold a pair of shotguns to one of them. One gun was a simple single-shot 12-gauge. The other was a slide action Remington 870. Weaver claimed the informant approached him about the sale. The government asserted that Weaver initiated the exchange. A jury later sided with Weaver.

Short-barreled shotguns have a mythical reputation well beyond their actual utility. Long barrels offer better performance, while handguns are easier to conceal. I never could find out definitive dimensions of the barrels in question.

The shotgun barrels were cut below the legal minimum of 18 inches. Several sources claimed they were only a quarter-inch too short. Another said they were five inches shy. The government said Weaver cut the barrels. Weaver alleged that the informant pruned the tubes after the sale. This bit of information turns out to be really important. It also makes the arbitrary rules on gun barrel length look pretty stupid.

A clerical error precipitated an extensive 18-month surveillance and apprehension operation—all over a shortened shotgun barrel.

Law Enforcement officials accused Weaver of creating two illegal short-barreled shotguns but offered to drop the charges if he would infiltrate nearby white supremacist organizations. Weaver refused and a court date was scheduled. Due to an administrative oversight, Weaver’s notification of his court appearance was one month later than the actual date. When Weaver inevitably failed to appear a warrant was issued for his arrest.

The Tragedy

Randy Weaver’s remote cabin became the focus of a massive multi-agency tactical Law Enforcement operation.

Federal Marshals pursued Weaver for a year and a half, eventually establishing surveillance positions around his home. It was alleged that Marshals threw rocks at the cabin to test the response of the family dogs. Regardless, when Weaver’s dog Striker began barking at the federal agents Kevin Harris and Sammy went to investigate.

This antique WW1-era Infantry rifle remains a deadly combat implement.

Harris carried a bolt-action M1917 military rifle. Young Sammy packed a Mini-14.

Sammy Weaver was fourteen at the time he was shot and killed by federal agents.

Every narrative I could find seemed shaded by an agenda. These are the dispassionate facts–the Marshals killed the family dog with an M16A2 and shot Sammy in the back with a 9mm Colt submachine gun. Harris killed Federal Marshal Bill Degan with a single round from his M1917. Weaver and Harris retreated inside the cabin but later retrieved Sammy’s body. The feds responded with more than 300 agents, lawmen, and National Guardsmen.

This is purportedly the rifle used by today’s HRT snipers. The flawed Rules of Engagement during the Ruby Ridge operation led to a further horrible tragedy.

Law Enforcement commanders issued liberal rules of engagement demanding that any armed adult male be shot on sight. Investigators later determined this to be both unconstitutional and legally indefensible. This epically flawed decision set the stage for the disaster that followed.

Lon Horiuchi was a military veteran and sniper on the elite FBI Hostage Rescue Team.

Lon Horiuchi was a West Point graduate and former infantry officer. On August 22, 1992, Horiuchi was a sniper for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team set up in sniper hide Sierra 4 some 180 meters from the Weaver homestead. When Randy Weaver, Sara, and Kevin Harris left the cabin to tend to Sammy’s body, Horiuchi fired.

This government surveillance photo shows members of the Weaver family near where the shootings took place.

Horiuchi later testified that he had intended to shoot Weaver through the spine, but that the man moved at the moment he squeezed the trigger. The heavy rifle bullet subsequently entered Weaver’s back and exited his right armpit. As Weaver and Harris ran for the cabin Horiuchi cycled his rifle and fired a second round.

Government surveillance assets captured this haunting image of Vicki Weaver about an hour before she was shot to death by an FBI sniper.

This second shot badly wounded Harris and struck Randy’s wife Vicki in the throat, killing her as she stood in the cabin door holding their infant daughter. The subsequent standoff lasted another ten days before Weaver and Harris, now near death, finally surrendered.

Federal agents maintained an extensive base of operations near the house site.

During the standoff, federal agents named their operating base Camp Vicki after Weaver’s wife. Negotiators during the siege called out such stuff as, “Vicki, we have blueberry pancakes” in an effort at taunting the Weavers. Though they later claimed they had not realized Vicki was dead, the effect on those within the cabin was absolutely inhuman.

Weaver’s Guns

There was a great deal of misinformation released by the government during the siege. Most of it was flavored to make Weaver and his facility seem more imposing than it was.

Government press releases described Randy Weaver as a hardened white supremacist Green Beret holed up in a mountain fortress equipped with an arsenal of deadly weapons. In reality, the Weaver home was little more than a glorified shack.

This is a shot of the weapons seized from Weaver’s home after the siege ended. By the standards of the American South, that’s not much of an arsenal.

Even today I was unable to locate a proper inventory of the weapons found in the cabin. However, I did find a photograph. Here are the guns Weaver actually possessed at the time of the killings.

The M1917 Enfield was a rugged and effective WW1-era Infantry rifle.

At the bottom is an M1917 Enfield. This is presumably the rifle Harris used to kill Marshal Degan. The M1917 is a bolt-action adaptation of a British design chambered in .30-06. The gun weighs 9.2 pounds and loads from the top via five-round stripper clips. While the 1903A3 Springfield got most of the press during WW1, Sergeant Alvin York was carrying an M1917 Enfield when he won his Medal of Honor in October of 1918.

The Ruger Mini-14 was designed to compete with the AR15 among American gun enthusiasts.

Weaver’s arsenal also included a pair of Ruger Mini-14 semiautomatic rifles, one blued and another stainless. Ruger first introduced the Mini-14 in 1973.

The Mini-14 is lightweight and easily accessorized.

A collaborative effort between Bill Ruger and James Sullivan, the Mini-14 was loosely based upon the action of the M1 Garand and fired .223 Remington. The Mini-14 feeds from detachable box magazines and weighs just south of 6.5 pounds.

The coach gun is a side-by-side shotgun so named based upon its use as a defensive arm on 19th-century stagecoaches.

A bolt-action hunting weapon, a scoped lever-action Savage, and a pump-action .22 round out the rifles. Agents seized a double-barreled 12-gauge coach gun and a single-shot shotgun as well as a variety of handguns and revolvers.

The top weapon is a souped-up pellet gun. That it was included in the lineup at all makes the whole thing seem a bit contrived.

The collapsible stock weapon at the top is a Crosman pellet rifle. My little brother had one like it when we were kids. The fact that the feds saw fit to include it in the layout frankly makes the whole affair seem all the more pathetic.

The Sordid Aftermath

Kevin Harris was found not guilty of killing Federal Marshal Bill Degan.

Kevin Harris was charged with a variety of offenses to include the murder of a federal agent but was ultimately acquitted. Weaver was absolved of all charges save the original failure to appear. For this, he served 18 months in prison and was fined $10,000. Both Harris and Weaver subsequently sued the US government in a civil lawsuit. Weaver’s suit demanded $200 million.

Though Weaver was a fixture at American gun shows for a time, he has steadfastly refused to grant formal interviews.

The government ultimately settled both suits. Harris took home $380,000, while the Weaver family was awarded a cumulative $3.1 million. One government lawyer later remarked that it was a good thing the case did not go to trial, as Weaver quite probably would have been awarded the full sum.

Many of the same government figures at Ruby Ridge went on to play significant roles in the Waco debacle.

Lon Horiuchi also served as a sniper the following year during the government’s comparably botched siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. He was charged with manslaughter for killing Vicki Weaver, but the charges were in time administratively dismissed.

Rage over these two egregious examples of Law Enforcement overreach catalyzed Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City.

The Ruby Ridge and Waco killings precipitated a maelstrom of anti-government vitriol that culminated in Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995. McVeigh killed 168 people in this attack, the worst case of domestic terrorism in American history. He was executed in 2001.

Sara Weaver has a powerful testimony. Her website www.rubyridgetofreedom.com is worth a surf.

What remained of the Weaver family eventually moved to Montana. Randy wrote a book, while his eldest daughter Sara became a born-again Christian. In 2012 she stated that she had forgiven the federal agents who killed her mother and brother. Amidst a veritable sea of hate, venom, accusations, and agendas, Sara’s seems the lonely voice of hope and reconciliation.

The Ruby Ridge killings galvanized the anti-government movement in America.

On a blood-drenched Idaho mountainside in 1992 our nation teetered, struggling to define itself on issues of race, freedom, and guns. Now some 27 years later the subsequent wounds are not yet fully healed. Aftershocks still play out on the news even today. God help us.

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About the author: Will Dabbs was born and raised in the Mississippi Delta, having been immersed in hunting and the outdoors since his earliest recollections. He holds a degree in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Mississippi and is the product of a traditional American nuclear family. Where most normal American kids get drunk to celebrate their 21st birthday, Will bought his first two machineguns. Will served eight years as an Army Aviator and accumulated more than 1,100 flight hours piloting CH47D, UH1H, OH58A/C, and AH1S helicopters. He is scuba qualified, has parachuted out of perfectly good airplanes at 3 o’clock in the morning, and has summited Mt. McKinley, Alaska–the highest point in North America–six times (at the controls of a helicopter, which is the only way sensible folk climb mountains). For reasons that seemed sagacious at the time he ultimately left the Army as a Major to pursue medical school. Dr. Dabbs has for the last dozen years owned the Urgent Care Clinic of Oxford, Mississippi. He also serves as the plant physician for the sprawling Winchester ammunition plant in that same delightful little Southern town. Will is a founding partner of Advanced Tactical Ordnance LLC, a licensed 07/02 firearms manufacturer and has written for the gun press for a quarter century. He writes solely to support a shooting habit that is as insensate as it is insatiable. Will has been married to his high school sweetheart for more than thirty years and has taught his Young Married Sunday School class for more than a decade. He and his wife currently have three adult children and a most thoroughly worthless farm dog named Dog.

{ 72 comments… add one }
  • Iz-La Rue April 7, 2020, 2:13 am

    If I may say something I think will be of extreme importance, or at least interest to some…

    The government in place today is not legitimate. In fact, the government hasn’t been legitimate since the federalists committed their coupe de etat, at the Constitutional convention. The purpose of that convention was to amend the Articles of Confederation, not draft a new Constitution that would replace the government. That Constitution is really a bankruptcy compact drafted by a bunch of lawyers trained the arts of political language. They intentionally riddle it with legalese, using double entendres. Patrick Henry pointed this out in the most important speech ever given in American history.

    We The People never meant We The Citizens. The People were the State legislatures. Henry, being a lawyer himself, recognized the trickery & deceit and called them out for it. But no one listened. Everything Henry warned of came to pass. The federal government destroyed the republic and made themselves dictators. George Washington played a big role in that trickery & deceit by taking the wrong oath at his inauguration. A President in the Office of President is an Executive position. The Executive oath is under Article VI. Yet Washington took the oath under Article II. He broke the government when he did that, and every president after him followed suit.

    The real office of president is an executive position that requires taking the executive oath. He knew that because he was president of the convention and helped draft the Constitution/ bankruptcy compact. He made himself an employee of congress for the power to tax, The executive had no power to tax, only congress. The first Washington did was lay taxes and arrest protesters. The bankruptcy compact involuntarily made citizens constitors (blacks law definition: one who becomes responsible for anothers debt). America never really won its independence. The British tricked the colonists with the help of federalists. If you find that hard to believe then understand this. The colors of the King are Red, White & Blue. The 1st flag (designed by Washington, an Englishman) was called the Grand Union. And Social Security is owned and amended by Queen Elizabeth.

    The federal government has been the enemy of America from the start. Patrick Henry warned, but nobody listened. The federal government was involved in killing Kennedy, because Israel’s prime minister Ben Gurion ordered him killed. Gurions close friend was James Angelton, head of the CIA. Oswald saved Kennedy from a planned Assassination attempt in Chicago just months before Dallas. That’s why he was chosen to be the patsy. The Secret Service were upset because Oswald and the first black Secret Service agent stopped the assassination. The black agent was framed for taking a bribe and jailed, while Oswald took the fall. Ruby was an Israeli Mossad/CIA gunrunner, who ran guns to castro.

    The men who really killed Kennedy were exMarines turned mercenaries. Edwin Collins (fatal headshot) and FBI agent James Bookhoust were position directly behind Zapruder. If you take a magnify glass to the Morrman photo, you will see the 2 men with rifles. Ed Collins is the one aiming out the pergola window. Bookhout is the one wearing the sunglasses. That’s why the FBI worked so hard to frame Oswald. Another shooter was on the roof of the DalTex building. His reflection can be seen in the Zapruder film, top left side. Zapruders office was in the Dal Tex building. The shooters were right behind him. How do you think he chose that one perfect spot to capture history.

    Gurion ordered Mossad to kill Kennedy because he wouldn’t let up on inspecting Dimona. Israel was determined to obtain nuclear weapons, which they have. Israel is the biggest threat on the planet. They’ve been working from the inside out to destroy America. And they’ve been succeeding. The Liberty was deliberate attempt to frame Egypt. They also bombed the Word trade in 1993 with the help of the FBI. They committed 9/11 and the FBI helped hide evidence, such as the pentagon video tapes. Our country, our government, our media, our lives have been taken over by Zionist terrorists. And now they’ve released this coronavirus to further destroy our economy and cover up the thousands of deaths in New York happening at the same time from the effects of the hydrogen bomb they used at WTC on 9/11.

    All true. And the only way we stand a chance is by working together. Whites, blacks, mexicans, asains, bloods, crips, hells angeles, mongols, aryans, patriots, citizens, the Zionists have worked extra hard to keep us apart for good reason. The fighting has distracted us from their plans. They have virtually gone unnoticed because of our childish and senseless bickering. If we can’t get along to save our country, we can’t save ourselves. The Imposters are in the Door. The Foxes are in the Hen houses.

    What say you!

    Isn’t ironic that the same thing we’ve been told to be proud of and celebrate on 4th july has been deemed a criminal activity by those supposed to be guarding the country and us? A legitimate government would never attack its own people or its own constitution. Isn’t ironic that the same people who created it are the very same who ignore it and want to destroy it? Federalism at its finest.

    Trickery & deceit my friends! Remember that.

    Will anyone listen to me? No one has solved Kennedy’s murder in over 50 years and I just pointed it out for you in all 5 minutes.

    Knowledge isn’t intelligence, logic and common sense are.

  • George December 5, 2019, 5:09 pm

    Late finding this, but good article. The one question that I ponder over and over is how far should WE THE PEOPLE be pushed before we push back??
    Now taking up arms against an ENEMY OF OUR CONSTITUTION is a serious matter that cannot be accomplished by a few, who would be branded AMERICAN TERRORISTS, but rather as a UNIFIED FORCE OF AMERICAN PATRIOTS IN A SHOW OF FORCE LOOKING FOR A PEACEFUL RESOLUTION TO THE DEMANDS OF THE PEOPLE. OR THE REMOVAL FROM OFFICE OF THOSE WHO REFUSE TO UPHOLD THEIR SWORN OATH.
    WE, THE PEOPLE HAVE ALLOWED THESE TYRANTS TO OBTAIN THE POWERS THEY HAVE. AND WE, CAN TAKE THEM BACK. WE ALL CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE. WE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT ISN’T RIGHT. BUT IT IS UP TO US… WE THE PEOPLE, TO STAND TOGETHER. LIKE THE MINUTEMEN OF THE FIRST REVOLUTION, AND MARCH AGAINST OUR COMMON ENEMY TO PROTECT OUR FAMILIES OUR PROPERTY, OUR COUNTRY, OUR CONSTITUTION, AND OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. AND REMEMBER, IN THE WORDS OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, FROM TIME TO TIME OUR FREEDOM MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS!!
    I’M READY. THE ANGRY PATRIOT

  • Never again December 5, 2019, 3:18 pm

    Shoot any tyrants on sight.

  • Jack December 4, 2019, 4:37 pm

    They will NEVER raid you when you are strong, you WILL go down, be it a hole or prison. That won’t be your choice.

    Like them or any military , IMHO it’s The Counter Strike.
    This will not involve you.
    You, will be in some version of a Hole.

    If a Counter Strike OR a number of Counter Strikes became the norm to there Tyranny, the Dynamic of there violence would have NO CHOICE but to change.

  • D.J. December 2, 2019, 12:49 pm

    Despite court rulings , there is a gentleman , and I use that term
    quite loosely , whom should be incarcerated presently .

    Lon Hooriuchi is an assassin , terrorist , and potential lying criminal .

    He will be smoking a turd in Hell at the end of the game . ” Vengeance
    is mine , says the Lord . “

  • Jesse Tiede November 27, 2019, 5:11 pm

    I became friends with the FBI agent who drove the tank into the wall at Waco, TX. This action started the fire that ultimately consumed the building you see when any report about the Sect is discussed. He said they knew the fire would start, and were counting on it running the survivors out. He even laughed as he told me about the jarring he felt when the tank made contact with the building. He was also an FBI trained sniper, and he told me in great detail how he laid out in an over-watch position, and imagined what the people he was scoping would react if they knew he was prepared to squeeze the trigger on his .300 Win Mag. We didn’t remain friends for very long, but even he said the Government actions were drastically draconian. I really doubt he would appreciate it, had he been the target, rather than an obscure religious cult…

  • Tim November 27, 2019, 2:34 pm

    The government is still at it and have spread their government civilian military force to other agencies like the EPA and the IRS. An interesting example was here in Alaska at Chicken. Here is a link to a story of over 70 federal agencies that have armed themselves, all part of Obama’s civilian military that he called for.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/armed-epa-raid-in-alaska-sheds-light-on-70-fed-agencies-with-armed-divisions

  • Joseph Karl Houseman November 27, 2019, 12:14 pm

    I know nothing about Ruby Ridge but I am very aware of how the propagandists have rewritten history of Waco. I saw the first new crew video showing Koresh shot while standing in the doorway holding the door open. TV expose’ programs since have claimed “no one knows who fired first”. Bullshit! tens of thousands of people saw that news crew footage and saw Koresh hit by the first shot fired. But no matter how many people saw it the lie becomes the reality. Interestingly, the FBI confiscated that news footage and it was never seen again. The FBI claims to have lost both the news footage and the front door.

  • Harold Strube November 27, 2019, 9:26 am

    I think we are seeing the same type of mentality in our federal law enforcement and the lying media. The socialist party wants to disarm the citizens of this country so they can continue to enslave the population. I for one will never give up my constitutional rights. Nuf said

  • David A. Boerboom November 26, 2019, 11:50 am

    I think this may be the best well written article I have read online since 1998. Seriously, Outstanding job.

  • MCM November 26, 2019, 10:44 am

    I remember this time well, I don’t think one could lay much blame on Bush, Sr., the pure fact of the matter is that the Federal government was looking to knock American gun owners down a peg and the Weaver incident, and the Waco incident that followed gave them all the excuse they needed. At the time, I had an FFL because I was a competitor in USPSA/IPSC and used the FFL mainly to order reloading supplies at cost and have them delivered in bulk to the house. I know for a fact that the hostility really began to be noticeable about halfway through Bush Sr.s term, when I went to renew my FFL down at the ATF offices which at the time were in the federal courthouse in San Antonio where I lived.

    There was one agent there who was a year or two away from retiring and I remember the guy telling me to “enjoy this renewal, because things are gonna change the next time you come in and no one is going to like it”. Ruby Ridge happened about a few months after that, I remember the ATF guys visited me at home twice more, and auditing my books. They would never give me answers as to why, and there was nothing to find there expect a buttload of reloading component purchases such as primers, bullets, powder and brass which they asked why I needed so much. I explained that I was a competitive shooter and sold some of the components to my fellow brethren, and they said OK; they were always courteous and they left after looking.

    Then Clinton was elected, and everything changed. Sure enough, I got a letter about 2 or three months before AWB 1 and the Brady Bill were made into law. I went down to the ATF offices and they informed me that either I set up shop in a brick building, or I surrendered my license with my logs in 30 days. That, and the fee for the license went way up, I can’t remember how much, but for me that was enough. I went down the the ATF offices later and there were probably 13-15 people there, all doing the same thing, turning in their logbooks and surrendering their licenses.

    So in retrospect, I think t all started with government bureaucrats who were probably democrat plants, and then everything simply magnified when Clinton was elected President………

    Either way, very sad times.

  • Robert Mccallum November 25, 2019, 11:54 pm

    Interesting note, both weapons sold to the FBI were shortened and illegally modified shotguns, yet none of the weapons seized at Ruby Ridge had anything illegal done to them… I tend to believe weaver, that the FBI set him up

  • bob November 25, 2019, 11:28 pm

    sure the feds didn’t know they had shot Vicki Weaver. that’s why the next morning they were saying over the bullhorn, we’re having pancakes for breakfast, what did your wife cook?

  • Charles Hunter November 25, 2019, 11:11 pm

    Sergeant York did indeed carry the Enfield model 1917, 30-06 US caliber made either by Remington, Winchester or Eddystone. I note the article uses the term some thought York carried a 1903A3 rifle. Carrying a 1903A3 during WWI is an impossibility as the 1903 A3 rifle was manufactured for WWII use, the A3 did not exist in 1918. The 1903 Springfield rifle was the WWI standard and used also in WWII by the US Marine corp in the south pacific. Many a 1903 rifle took the place of the M1 Garand when the Army soldiers in the areas where the Marine Corp were fighting as the Marines would surreptitiously trade for the Garand’s. Eventually the Marine issued 1903 Springfields were taken out of service and replaced by the M1’s. Some Marine ‘s were able to get their hands on the 1942 10 round Johnson semi auto rifles which has some characteristics better than the M1.

    • Ray November 26, 2019, 1:24 pm

      The USMC began issuing the M-1 Garand before the start of WW2. The Corp NEVER “barrowed” the Garand’s they used in the Solliman(spell?) Islands from the Army. Those rifles were an issue of 1000 rifles supposed to be sent to Wake Island , but that Island fell before the issue got to them. The Rifles were then transferred to the 5th Marines. This is all documented in both the USMC and National Archives. The M-1903 stayed in service with the Corp until the end of WW2 . Some “‘O3’s” were still in use in Korea and Viet nam. EVERYTHING in your statement is wrong. MYTH and old story’s, made up and passed along in ignorance for decades. ………….. The FBI are baby raping , murdering,lying scum. Worse than the MAFIA or any drug cartel. May The Almighty curse them and all of there works

  • DW November 25, 2019, 10:50 pm

    It has been 27 years since the feds murdered an innocent woman and a child. The 4 basic rules of gun safety do not apply to FBI snipers?I want to remind all the readers that the incompetent Head of the FBI then was Louie Freeh. A DC swamp slimeball 1st class, an elitist who hated normal American citizens. 27 years ago the FBI was corrupt and a tool of the swamp, now 27 years later the FBI Is more corrupt. Clearly hiring and promotional qualifications have not improved at the FBI.After the trial of Weaver & Harris, which the brillant attorney Jerry Spence won and he absolutely destroyed the Fed attorneys and their fabricated case, there was a counter suit for damages and it included the FBI snipers. And guess who defended them and got all charges dropped. That\’s right boys & girls, your current Fed AG – the dishonorable billy Barr. Swamp creatures never die, they just get more slimy and promoted.Anyone interested in the factual details of Ruby Ridge, the trial and some amazing discussion by Jerry Spence, please check out the link below. And it has several other related links. What should stand out to everyone if you read the link below is that Mr. Spence did not agree with nor condone Mr. Weaver\’s personal beliefs and he told Mr. Weaver that to his face on their initial meeting.But what he also told him is that our government does not exist to force your beliefs, nor to assault and kill your family on bogus charges. The government is very wrong and we will prove it. Which he did. He also goes on to describe how the Fed government has destroyed and taken our freedom – and this was 27 years ago! Sadly he was right and look where we are now. It is so sad that we don\’t have more liberty minded attorneys like him.https://famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1143-spenceletter

  • DW November 25, 2019, 10:50 pm

    It has been 27 years since the feds murdered an innocent woman and a child. The 4 basic rules of gun safety do not apply to FBI snipers?

    I want to remind all the readers that the incompetent Head of the FBI then was Louie Freeh. A DC swamp slimeball 1st class, an elitist who hated normal American citizens. 27 years ago the FBI was corrupt and a tool of the swamp, now 27 years later the FBI Is more corrupt. Clearly hiring and promotional qualifications have not improved at the FBI.

    After the trial of Weaver & Harris, which the brillant attorney Jerry Spence won and he absolutely destroyed the Fed attorneys and their fabricated case, there was a counter suit for damages and it included the FBI snipers. And guess who defended them and got all charges dropped. That’s right boys & girls, your current Fed AG – the dishonorable billy Barr. Swamp creatures never die, they just get more slimy and promoted.

    Anyone interested in the factual details of Ruby Ridge, the trial and some amazing discussion by Jerry Spence, please check out the link below. And it has several other related links. What should stand out to everyone if you read the link below is that Mr. Spence did not agree with nor condone Mr. Weaver’s personal beliefs and he told Mr. Weaver that to his face on their initial meeting.

    But what he also told him is that our government does not exist to force your beliefs, nor to assault and kill your family on bogus charges. The government is very wrong and we will prove it. Which he did. He also goes on to describe how the Fed government has destroyed and taken our freedom – and this was 27 years ago! Sadly he was right and look where we are now. It is so sad that we don’t have more liberty minded attorneys like him.

    https://famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1143-spenceletter

  • T. Edward Price November 25, 2019, 9:21 pm

    Janet Reno had nothing to do with Ruby Ridge. This occurred under George H.W. Bush’s watch, not Clinton’s.

    • LBear6570 November 26, 2019, 6:50 pm

      Janet Reno was appointed by Clinton in 1993. George H. W. Bush had nothing to do with her.

    • Michael Hegyan November 27, 2019, 7:43 am

      Right..needless to say, what Ronald Reagan, had mentioned prior, eight words a U.S. citizen should fear the most..’ I m from the Government, and here to help..

  • Patricia Scott November 25, 2019, 8:41 pm

    I agree with the many comments on the Ruby Ridge & Waco. Our Government are all about control. It scares me half to death to think about it and that our Government can do something like this to people who are doing nothing but existing and leaving other people alone. They would take everyone’s guns if they could. Even tho the Constitution says that we are allowed to own guns. Also our News who is made up of a bunch of Democommunists as one man called them. It scares me that the younger generation doesn’t know a thing except what the news says about politics and even the schools teach a lot of junk. The government has taken God & the Ten Commandments out of schools. Most people do not go to church so there is no right & wrong for their children to learn. Most young kids are given a phone & TV and aren’t learning anything about our government or what’s happening in the world. Most of them don’t know a thing about chores or helping out in the family. I believe in what the Bible says & we are living in our near end of times. The world keeps getting more wicked. Enough of my thoughts

  • JCitizen November 25, 2019, 7:28 pm

    Most of these racist groups seem like they move where people will leave them alone. As long as that stays that way, then probably NOTHING will ever happen; but left leaning government policies just can’t stand that someone has another view that they see as wrong, and they just can’t leave a dead dog lay.

    I am not a racist and I think one of the reasons Trump won was people like me got tired of being labeled as such just because we have a different political view. As long as this remains a problem we will see bad things happen from now on and into the future. I pray to God that all folks reach an understanding and just want to live in peace!

    • Rick November 26, 2019, 5:17 pm

      Who said the Weavers were racist? The same people in Government who said if you voted for Trump you were a racist also? Stop listening to what the mainstream media tells you. I believe many of the law enforcement officers who participated in the Ruby Ridge massacre were probably good american people like yourself. They were probably just doing there job and filled with the false ideas from their superiors that the Weavers were crazy white supremacist bent on killing any and all law enforcement. Read the Weavers point of view. They were just plain people who wanted to be left alone.

  • Walleye November 25, 2019, 5:07 pm

    Once the deep-state gets its much desired ban on the possession of all firearms, us plebes will be much easier to manage.

  • Area 52 November 25, 2019, 2:43 pm

    If the author wanted to call this story A history of Ruby Ridge or something similar OK then. However what is with the “Guns of Ruby Ridge”. It wasn’t a full blown shootout. It was resolved by negotiation. My point is the article’s title is misleading.

  • Gourdhead November 25, 2019, 1:07 pm

    And the only hilarious part of this sad story is that ‘Butch’ Reno campaigned for U.S. Senate in Miami (and Florida) after Ruby Ridge, Waco and the Elian Gonzales crime.

  • MDinKS November 25, 2019, 12:44 pm

    Just a horrifying story. It makes me wonder if this country has already slipped away past some point of no return regarding some of the founding ideals. No matter how hard the Founding Fathers tried with the Constitution, it seems there’s people now just hell bent on chipping away at the foundations of this nation, piece by piece. Rome rotted and fell from within. When god/family/country/flag is seen as an archane or “minority” position, this nation, as we know it, is doomed. When the majority of people populating a nation do not subscribe to a moral core, or remain silent, just watch what happens. 2A concepts, as originally intended and written, becomes deeply and almost desperately ominous scenario. If the millennial masses (think big voting block, ignorant of history lessons on past attempts of different govt systems) so enamored with ‘progressive’ socialism ever realized that they would be casting a 1-time, 1-way vote for socialism, that when put in practice is virtually indistinguishable from communism. You’re only free until you’re not. And if they actually voted to give up some rights, how can we save them? Bernie only needs their votes, that is all required from a generation of “useful idiots” we seem to have grown right here in America, dammit.

    • Rockatansky November 25, 2019, 3:11 pm

      For as long as these conversations on Weaver and the Branch Dividians have gone on, the one thing that’s never surfaced, that I believe is the real reason for this?

      I believe that these tragic abuse’s of power, on the people by the government, was no more than a test to see what public opinion would be?

      The gov took these actions way way out in left field to see if the public would believe and follow their narrative with the media’s help or see it for what it was, Government abuse and murder.

      Lucky for we the people aren’t stupid and called them on it. Imagine for a moment what would of transpired if it had went the way the gov wanted.
      This abusive agenda would of continued, even today, tell they eliminated all that they conceive a threat.

      Thankfull we have groups now that watch the Goverment for just this reason, and others like the Oath Keeper’s that actually show up so we don’t have a repeat of this.

  • Donald Hoyle November 25, 2019, 12:35 pm

    Great article! Very well written, my blood is boiling after reading this, its so hard that the fbi are really the bac guys!

  • davep` November 25, 2019, 12:27 pm

    George H. W. Bush was president in 1992. Clinton was elected president in 1992, but did not take office until 1993.

  • Kivaari November 25, 2019, 12:18 pm

    It is my understanding that Weaver cut the barrels to 18″, but the feds trimmed the wood grips, so the overall length was under 26″. A real petty offense.

    • Mark Johnson November 25, 2019, 2:19 pm

      I have to observe the photo display of Weaver’s guns contains no short barrreled rifles or shotguns, no pretend-military AK or AR style weapons, and no gargantuan magazines.

  • Viet Vet November 25, 2019, 11:59 am

    Given the actual facts and statistics about guns and crime, there is no doubt that the 50 year war the democommunists have been pursuing against armed American Citizens and the 2nd Amendment are due to their agenda, their UTOPIA: World Socialist, no borders, Government.

  • Viet Vet November 25, 2019, 11:52 am

    I have to think that it was no accident (administrative oversight) that the date to appear was one month later than the actual date. That they used his failure to appear as a means to leverage him to spy on his neighbors is proof. If democommunists didn’t exist our government would not be near as unfriendly and intrusive. Yes, I know the GWH Bush was president at the time. Bush was no Reagan. He was actually a bit of an asshole.

    • alex November 27, 2019, 10:38 pm

      bush was more than just an asshole,he was a globalist.he ran the Cia and was involved with every back door,shoddy deal from the time he got out of the military. i have the lowest possible opinion of bush,i don’t think much more of his jerkoff son.

  • perlcat November 25, 2019, 11:20 am

    Thank you for another well researched and fair article. If you just evaluate this situation on the numbers and the evidence collected, it tells an awful tale of what happens when a government runs out of control.

    Weaver was no sophisticated criminal mastermind — if he was in any way sophisticated at all, he’d have paid lip service to their request to infiltrate some other group and then never followed through. The reason I say the government was out of control is that they could have stood down at any time and worked with him. You can go to any breakfast cafe in rural America and come up with a dozen people that fit Weaver’s description — using overwhelming force on someone that isn’t even a minor player is simply ridiculous.

    Since they were desperate to gain a conviction of anybody in order to prove their thesis that the backwoods was full of white nationalists, they didn’t stand down, and issued those rules of engagement that saw a government shooting its own citizens — even worse, a 14 year old, a mother and an infant. Our government is doubly out of control in that the person that issued that order and gave Horiuchi the order to shoot never served an hour of prison time. Until our government holds themselves accountable for committing a war crime, they are, by definition, out of control. You can’t say that shooting noncombatant women, and infants is anything other than a war crime in time of war, what about in time of peace?

    I don’t look for sanity to prevail; the term “war criminal” is currently being used to “get Trump”, so the term has lost its relevance and horror.

  • James McGuire November 25, 2019, 10:46 am

    Your opening statement is false. It was a Democrat “Bill Clinton” in the Whitehouse with Janet Reno as the Attorney General. They used their office to abuse “The People”.
    After Waco, Ruby and Oklahoma, ATF would show up at all gun shows; under Bush they backed off and weren’t so obvious.

    • Will November 25, 2019, 11:55 am

      I thought that as well when I pulled this piece together. Ruby Ridge was August of 92. Clinton took office in January of 93. I don’t like Clinton, either, but this wasn’t on his watch.

    • Mike V November 25, 2019, 12:05 pm

      I think Ruby Ridge was in the last year of Bush Sr.

    • Evan November 25, 2019, 12:08 pm

      His opening statement is correct. Bill Clinton was not inauguration until January 20th 1993.

    • MikeRoss November 25, 2019, 12:41 pm

      The opening statement is correct, Bush 41 was president when Ruby Ridge happened. Clinton and Reno were in office for Waco.

    • Will November 25, 2019, 12:45 pm

      I initially thought that as well. Clinton took office five months after Ruby Ridge.

    • Gourdhead November 25, 2019, 1:03 pm

      These snakes still work all the gun shows as well as the machine gun shoot.

    • Kane November 25, 2019, 2:42 pm

      Klinton was responsible for Waco not Ruby Ridge. Old man Bush renounced his “Honorary NRA membership” when La Pierre called the feds “jackbooted thugs” for the handling of RR. The author is correct.

  • Doyle Carroll November 25, 2019, 10:33 am

    Think there isn’t a deep state? Corruption!

    • David ashley November 25, 2019, 12:40 pm

      Dear Will Dabbs…. WTH…
      “Sergeant Alvin York was carrying an M1917 Enfield when he won his Medal of Honor in October of 1918.”
      I promise you that its not a competition. And to then read your background and see that you served in the Army, shame.

      On another note, I did enjoy the article and it has caused me to begin researching more about it. Thanks for that.

      • Will November 25, 2019, 3:22 pm

        A sin of omission. I do indeed know better. No idea what I was thinking. Thanks.

  • Fergus Boone November 25, 2019, 10:01 am

    Shooting a woman armed with a deadly baby? Remember this was a Bush show and it was the same FBI run by Mueller. Nothing has changed. Actually things have gotten far worse.

    • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:39 pm

      Exactly Right!

  • Alej November 25, 2019, 9:20 am

    Horiuchi should STILL be in jail. How courageous. He must be very proud.

    • Fergus Boone November 25, 2019, 10:03 am

      Honruchi never served a day in jail. His address should be published. He should always live with the knowledge that his movements are being watched.

      • perlcat November 25, 2019, 11:33 am

        Horiuchi isn’t the criminal here. That term belongs to the person that issued the order to shoot anyone armed. I don’t feel he was a very good sniper; they tend to make sure of their shot and that the surroundings are clear before pulling the trigger, but somebody gave him the order to pull that trigger. That somebody belongs in prison for the rest of their life. Until that happens, our government has gotten away with the murder of its own citizens.

      • MDinKS November 25, 2019, 1:00 pm

        (Correction: haven’t won a war since PRIOR to the Vietnam era. We won nothing in Vietnam, and we’ve learned little since.)

    • MDinKS November 25, 2019, 12:56 pm

      I’m not to familiar with Horiuchi’s story. His moral dilemma is clear. My view is he was put in a ridiculous no-win situation by the ones issuing the orders. Sure, he could have disobeyed orders, but we can guess what types of repercussions that would bring. I suppose he could have missed intentionally, but that ploy would get exposed, his ‘selective’ loss of his proven sniper skills. No win situation for that sniper. The biggest problem with this is WHY did it have to come to this? Deploying military type forces against a shack of 3 adults who never threatened anyone, yet cannot win a shootin’ war in convincing fashion since Vietnam? So, citizens, can We the People control our govt any more (the ones giving orders)? Or has that bird flown…? Scary stuff.

      • Longbow December 4, 2019, 11:06 pm

        No win situation for Horiuchi?

        B.S.!

        Horiuchi was eager to shoot someone. He was given the clearance/order to shoot ANY armed adult. This was an order he carried out with vigor and with joy in his heart.

        He very well could have said

        “You want me to murder American Citizens, even when they pose no threat to me or anyone else? No, Boss. I ain’t doin’ it!”

        Simple, huh? Moral dilemma, my ass!

        At Waco, the same people were involved and did the same thing, but on a much grander scale. The ATF THUGS who shot Koresh at the front door KNOW the truth. How many of them have ever come forward and told the truth? Exactly how many? Yet those super duper good guys, extremely professional guys, of the highest integrity, sat back silently as their bosses LIED to the public about both events.

        There is no moral dilemma. There is moral character, and lack of moral character. There is integrity and lack of integrity.

        All Law Imposement suffer from the same malady. Belonging to The Gang is much more important to them than Truth or Justice. To them, the welding of power over one’s neighbors is its own reward.

    • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:40 pm

      You are being too generous, Brother: If it my choice, his fate would be more graphic. 🙂

      • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:41 pm

        “if it WERE my choice” 🙂

  • mikeb November 25, 2019, 8:55 am

    Sgt York “won” his MOH? You should know better.

  • johnnyraygun November 25, 2019, 8:31 am

    No comment, nuf said

  • joefoam November 25, 2019, 8:07 am

    What’s the head count going to be like when ‘red flag laws’ are acted on. The LEOs haven’t changed, if anything they are more aggressive.

    • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:44 pm

      THAT is a point being overlooked by almost everyone! The so-called, “Red-Flag” laws are a DISASTER waiting to happen!

  • tim November 25, 2019, 8:05 am

    It’s the “new math,” White+ Gun= Supremacist.

  • SD November 25, 2019, 7:45 am

    With a liberal anti gun press and media supporting the anti gun politicians, this is likely to happen again. If you don’t support 2nd amendment organizations and politicians you’re part of the problem. Don’t think it can’t happen.

    • WinfredB November 25, 2019, 8:40 am

      As a LEO this story is terrible saddening. I personally don’t understand the gov position on such heavy tactics. However a failure to appear will get you a warrant.

      Today the US society is divided far deeper than it was then. These are scary times. Admittedly the modern white guy thats wanting to be tactikool gives a false persona. Tacted out in 5.11 or whatever with a 70k jeep and Rifle. We call them twg’ers. They’re harmless most will piss themselves in an actual threat. However the media will use them as a false stereotype.

      • InsaneCalifornia November 25, 2019, 10:37 am

        Not in California. Fail to appear, kill someone, steal less than $2,000, poop on the street, and the perps get a medal and a street named in their “honor.” Sad…..

        • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 2:01 pm

          Unless you are a white guy with a squirt gun! Then you get hunted by the SWAT team and shot down in a hail of bullets!

      • JJG November 25, 2019, 11:30 am

        1) Being given an incorrect court date on an official document will always get you a “failure to appear”. Even you. Doesn’t justify a thing.
        2) As a LEO, it is scary that you like to stereotype and make generalizations about “white guys” that are “tactikool.” Suggesting that a group of LEO that you affiliate with call them “twg’ers” suggests a lack of basic human decency and respect. Having a mentality that you are somehow superior to other citizens (or a subgroup of them) and giving them a name is gradually dehumanizing them in your mind. That dehumanization has potentially more far reaching effects than merely making a group of LEO disrespectful. It is the dehumanization of each other that leads to the behavior, attitudes, and actions of events like Ruby Ridge. Ironic that you would display that in this forum. I hope you deeply consider this point and can lead the change in attitude amongst your colleagues.

        • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:59 pm

          Yup. Some folks seem to CHOOSE to ignore the facts about Inept or Corrupt “government” actions, such as mailing out notices late – KNOWING that they will cause a No-Show or Non-Compliance situation. An old trick used for years! And since they had Weaver under surveillance for “months”, why did they not just send the Sheriff out with another letter, informing him of his Court Date? I think WE know the answer too that one.

      • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:52 pm

        You can call PEOPLE any name or title that you choose, but the fact is that incidents like RR and Waco PUSH people into behaviors like you are denigrating! It is called FEAR! And no matter what you may THINK of those PEOPLE – that they may “piss’ themselves, if you keep pushing men into a corner or a box, leaving them no alternative, eventually you may discover that they ARE AFTER-ALL — MEN!

    • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 2:03 pm

      Yup. You nailed it, brother!

  • Nanook November 25, 2019, 5:47 am

    Inept government officials backed up by equally inept and trigger-happy, law enforcement officials. The perfect storm of ineptitude. Shoot a 14 year old in the back and a mother holding an infant in the throat! I grew up in N Idaho/ E Wash. The Feds had declared an open season on anyone they determined to be white supremacist. Of course everyone owned guns and hunted in that part of N Idaho. The attempt at entrapment of Weaver, over the shotguns, is your classic example of lighting the fuse to the proverbial powder keg…

    • Christopher Chason November 25, 2019, 1:53 pm

      AMEN!

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